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Vo2 work on hills

new2703new2703
in General Training Discussions

 Did my Vo2 work today using hill repeats.  My FTP is 260 so I figured shot for between 300 and 310.  During intervals was averaging 400 watts for 2.5 minutes.  While it was hard did not feel it was as intense as it was suppose to be.  When doing intervals on hills how do you adjust intensity for vo2 work on PM?

Comments

  • Dave CampbellDave Campbell
    Question for you John. Was your cadence on the hills similar to your cadence when you did your FTP test? Like FTP test=85, hill repeats at 80'ish and 400 watts, or was it like 60'ish and 400 watts. I find it easier to mash on a steeper hill than what my FTP V02 zone would suggest. Not sure I'm training the same muscle fibers the same way though. If I do hill repeats on say a 2-3% grade, very similar cadence to when I tested, it feels adequately challenging. Will be interested to hear what the WSM's say about this. I a watt a watt regardless of how you earn it?
  • Scott AlexanderScott Alexander
    The longest "hill" I have within 30 miles is just about 70 seconds in duration. I add up the total vo2 time on the schedule, and do as many hill repeats as I need to hit that total.

    Also, for me any way, the last 10 of those 70 seconds, I go ALL OUT (it's an easy physical delineation for that 10 second mark, ex a mark in the street). It's not exactly in the schedule, but it's fun and it definitely works for me to boost my fitness. And I definitely notice it when surging to catch my roadie friends, they can hardly ever drop me - even on the tri bike.
  • new2703new2703
    Cadence avg 80. FTP testing about 85.
  • new2703new2703
    I know power on hills is typically higher but how do I adjust so that I know I'm doing vo2 work and not FTP work
  • Peter GreaggPeter Greagg
    John — I have a couple of thoughts. First, a watt is a watt — that said, it is considered that you should test your FTP for race execution on a flat course.
    Second, VO2 max is considered the power you can hold for periods 4 to 8 minutes (EN uses a 5 min test).
    Third, the VO2 max power is ultimately the limiter to pushing up your FTP using FTP intervals — which is the reason why we use doses of VO2 max workouts in our OS and long course builds. The normal relationship between FTP and VO2 max is around 1.2 (eg FTP = 260 and VO2 max = 310).
    Someone like me with a VO2 max = 250 and an FTP of 210 (1.13) has what we call "a very low roof" — it is my low roof that is limiting my benefit from FTP intervals.
    As you can hold 400 watts for at least 2.5 minutes, your VO2 max power must be well above 310 watts. This means you have a very "large attic" — meaning you should be able to continue to consistently push up your FTP using FTP intervals.
    If you are newish to power, your FTP may be higher than your current 260 watt estimate.
  • Peter GreaggPeter Greagg
    Also John, if you want to know what your VO2 max power is (as I suggested above), do a 5 min all out test and take the Pnorm of that.
  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    Great advice from Gregg!

    You could also add about 7-10% to your "flat" FTP to get your climbing FTP, then do this stuff at 120% of that climbing FTP. Close enough. Just be mindful of your recovery from these workouts, as they can dig you into a hole if you're not careful

  • new2703new2703
    Thanks everyone for great advice. Looks like I have some homework to do
  • Michael ByertsMichael Byerts
    Have you recently calibrated the power meter? And is your FTP current? It's certainly possible to have higher climbing watts than indoor, flat, TT bike in the aero bar watts (I do), but your numbers seem like too big a discrepancy. A VO2 Max of 400 implies an FTP of 343. If you tested at 260, either you had a really, really bad test, the test was quite a while ago or something is not giving you accurate numbers. My guess is that either your power meter is feeding you fuzzy numbers or you have your FTP set too low.
  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    Yeah, I missed that. Pushing 400w for 2.5' is...unusual

    Last summer while training for IMWI, with FTP of 305w, 4.25w/kg, I would do 30" on, 45" off on a hill at about 435-445w. If I were to SWAG I'd say I could have done 2.5' at about 375-385w but it would suck, for reals....

  • new2703new2703
    Just recently did FTP test. It's an outdoor 20 mile loop. Did it on the spur of the moment because had just gotten power meter and wanted to collect data. Currently in get fast plan and don't test for 4 weeks. I agree there is a big discrepancy in numbers so I'll recalubrate PM.
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