Home General Training Discussions

Running at VDOT pace-how will this make me faster?

I did my first 5k test of the outseason and got my numbers.  I'm a little confused as to how running at my VDOT pace will make me faster.  My VDOT pace is about 30 seconds slower than my average pace for the 5k test.  I was always under the impression that you have to run faster to get faster.

Can someone please explain this to me?

Thanks,

Joanna 

Comments

  • your not actually running at your vdot pace. The vdot is a formula created by Daniels, which will then establish paces for your runs (plug your numbers into the data tool). You'll see LRP (long run pace), MP (marathon pace), HMP (half marathon pace), TP (threshhold pace), and IP (interval pace). The workouts in the OS are primarily focused on TP and IP. This will help build speed by working on your threshhold. Then once the OS starts, we look to put in more miles at MP and HMP.
  • What Keith said! To add just a little more insight-you can establish a vDot from almost any distance run based on Jack Daniels formulas (which are used in the Data Tool). So your "vDot pace" would be something different depending on if you ran a 5k, 10k, 10M, etc. In fact, there was a time when we here in EN did our vDot test based on a 10K runs (as all OG's in the haus collectively shutter). While the longer test is a bit more accurate for vDot calculations, there is a big cost to doing the longer test. We now use 5K's for our vDot tests because R&P determined the shorter test was good enough and the well worth the reduced impact to the rest of the training plan (and reduced risk of injury).



    If you want to learn more about vDot, check out Jack Daniels book "Daniel's Running Formula".

  • Think of your vdot as a set of paces. Your 5k pace should be at or close to the pace you just ran your 5k test at. Your threshold pace on the other hand is closer to what your 10k pace should be (or hour threshold pace). The OS plans build on these paces. For example the early weeks are all about working on that hour threshold. Lots of runs with mile repeats and longer segments on the weekend run. The plan then shifts to true speed/track workouts that target that 5k (interval pace) and below.

     

  • Joanna; my understanding of the vDot system that took awhile for me to understand is that you do not want to MAX out on every run of every distance. That is just asking for trouble as your ability to heal/recover is compromised with that much stress. vDot allows you to know just the right amount of physiological stress for a given distance that your body can likely handle to cause a physiological adaptation without pushing you over the end to "over reaching" or "over training".

    Hope this helps

    Vince
  • I bet Joanna is still wondering how running at TP will make her faster! I hate to get THAT discussion started, but I will ad my brief 2¢. "Faster" to us means being able to complete the running leg of an HIM or IM at the quickest pace our anatomy and physiology can carry us, assuming optimal bike training and pacing. I'm an empiricist, meaning I just go with what works, and really don't care that much about WHY it works. I know from my own experience that training at several different speeds does make me "faster", certainly better than just plodding along every day at one slow speed, or killing myself day after day at a faster speed. I trust the collective experience of our team/coaches in setting up this particular system of mixing running speeds as being ONE way (for sure not the only way) to get to that best possible HIM or IM run leg. The trick is to find the right mix, and also to find the right training pace for a specific person. VDOT measurements are a proven method for figuring out some approximate speeds at which to run in training. And our coaches, through their own and the team's trial and error, have a lot of confidence in the mix and progression of training speeds they give to us.

  • If you'd like to understand better why running / riding at threshold pace (the power/pace you can hold for an hour), there are a few good resources out there, such as The Endurance Nation Long Course Training Manual (see the train map).  That's the one that's free, and the best place to start.

    The short answer is that your ability to do work with your slow-twitch muscle fibers is what limits your ability in triathlon.  Fast twitch fibers fatigue too quickly to be useful for anything other than short surges.  In order to train your slow-twitch fibers to put out more work, you need to recruit all of them (hence work at threshold), and this is why we don't do a lot of long, slow base-building sessions (inefficient).  By working at threshold, your slow-twitch muscle fibers are getting all the stimulus they can handle.

    'But, I can run faster, won't that speed along improvement?'  Kinda.  When you're running/biking faster than threshold pace, by definition, you're pulling in some fast-twitch fibers (the kind that don't help you race well in a triathlon).  This does not make your slow-twitch fibers able to do more work.  What it does do is to put additional load on your heart (and neuromuscular recruiting system), and help to improve the pumping capacity of the heart, and therefore your VO2max.  By improving your VO2max, you give yourself more opportunity to raise your threshold by doing more threshold work.  But a higher VO2max doesn't make you faster in a triathlon.  It means that you have more potential to get faster.

    So, to summarize:

    to get faster, raise your threshold by doing threshold work. 

    Periodically, do some work higher, so that you don't bump up against any limitations of your heart's pumping capacity.

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    It sounds unsexy and uncomplicated, which is precisely what it is. 

    Mike

  • Holy great answers Batmen (and women). Since J hasn't come back here yet, I'll say it: THANKS!
  • @ Michael...lather, rinse, repeat? LMAO

    V
  • Great replies there folks, learnt a great deal from it! Al wins tho' - must try and use the word 'empiricist' !! :-)
  • Wikipedia sez: "...empiricism is a theory of knowledge which asserts that knowledge arises from experience..." If something doesn't work, it doesn't matter how much "sense" it makes. So we need both the science behind the training plan, and the practical experience which shows it does indeed work.

  • Thank you everybody for all the great answers and insight, and for the new 'word of the day'.

    Joanna
Sign In or Register to comment.