Home General Training Discussions

Drafting Required in Group Rides?

Group ride etiquette question: Should you draft?

Reason I ask is that the leader has asked me twice "are you not comfortable riding the wheel in front of you?"  (Once last week then again this week)  I said I am but I want to work so I try not to.  Was this his way of telling me I should?  I generally keep up with the group (and its a no-drop ride) but I do lose them uphill, then catch up on the downs and flats.  Plus they do have regular stops to wait to anyone (not always just me) so I can catch up then too.

I don't want to piss anyone off or slow them down, but I also prefer not to draft.  If I ride with the group, should I draft? Or am I better off going out on my own? 

BTW, this isn't the A group by any means... maybe B-/C+.  LOL  Mostly men 50+ (occassionally another female or 2 but sometimes I'm the only chick)

Comments

  • From my perspective...
    If you've got a specific workout to do, and the group will/can interfere with that goal-then ride on your own. Or even off the back of the group if necessary. It never hurts to let anyone know that you've got a specific workout to do, and those questions should disappear.

    But, I've found great benefit of riding within the group, including "over/under" efforts (above threshold, then recover, the marquis style of roadies), drafting, sprints, etiquette, and not to mention social aspects. It's a massive boost to bike handling skills as well, which will benefit you every time you ride a bike!!

    A lot of times roadies like to try and smash you if they know you're a triathlete, esp if you're on a tri bike. You've got to earn the roadies respect before you ride IN the group on a tri bike. And there's some other additional etiquette 'rules' if you are riding a tri bike (ex, no aero position while in the pack).

    I ride tue/thu and sometimes Sundays with roadies...fast ones. First part of the season is on a road bike, second part is on the tri bike (once I have a race on the schedule, I slowly transition). Wed and sat are my local tri team rides, where almost everyone is on a tri bike in a pack. My point: know your group/audience.
  • Typically, group rides are just that, group rides (i.e. a tight group all drafting). When other riders behind you see you gapping the wheel in front of you, they think you are getting dropped and want to move around you so that they aren't dropped as well. One way to participate without causing reactions from other riders would be to stay either at the front or off the back, so you can go at your desired level of effort. Another would be to ride alone on days you have a specific goal with respect to effort/work.
  • If you are riding with an experienced group, they will generally not appreciate you riding in the middle of the group and opening up gaps in front of you. If you're intentionally not going to draft, then I would say its better to stay off the back off the back of the group and out of the way.

    Gaps on a group ride are just "messy." It can create an accoridion affect, the people behind you don't know if they should go around you, are you going to close that gap you just opened up, wtf, etc. Just messy.

    I've recently been riding with my tri club a bit (just finished a ride with them) and the messiness of it, mob / gaggle vs organized and tight drives me nuts.

  • I have never understood the benefit of riding in a pace line on a training ride. Unless you are pushing the wind your IF is sub .500, and with a medium sized group your only going to be pulling 10% of the time. Why waste all that opportunity to get out and push your own wind. Roadies like to ride in a pace line, I guess because it makes them look fast. And if this is just a hobby or social time for them, then more power to them. But if you want to get stronger and faster then push more watts by pushing your own air.
  • Steve,

    In my experience it's very difficult to do the same amount of work solo that you can do with the right group. On my Tues group ride my IF is consistently .97-99 for a 1:35 ride (yes, FTP is accurate) and today I put up 17' @ 325w, or 1.14 IF. With the right group (very strong, relatively small numbers) with the right focus (want to kill each other) you can ride very, very hard.

    And, at the end of the day, all you need to do is go to the front and hammer the shit out of yourself and everyone else. If you're not there to make friends, the strong guys respond and an A++ group forms.

  • I just recently had a group ride experience with the wrong group. These roadies were from my local cycling club which I am still evaluating to see if we have the same goals. I was hanging in the back and frustrated by the draft effect as I was having to soft pedal it just to avoid crashing into the guy in front of me. I was also the only guy on a tri bike. After a few miles I decided I was wasting my time and pulled out up front to lead the group. After 5 miles no one was behind me...

    that's not a story about me being awesome on my bike as I was only really averaging say 19 mph in that section of flat road, but the fact that those guys were more interested in having a conversation on their bike while eating bananas versus trying to raise their FTP (like me)..And there's nothing wrong with talking and eating bananas but that's not what I was trying to do that morning. image

    Kim, we need to get used to drafting as that's all that's gonna happen at IMFL even if you don't intend to draft...amazing how even several bike lengths back you can still feel the effects of the draft behind a group of riders...
  • I just about gave up on my group rides with my tri club as it was getting dangerous, bunch of them couldn't hold there line who was not putting in any effort and who when they went to the front hammered even more without any warning.

     

    If I want to ride with a group I break out my road bike and go hit it with a group I know who likes to hammer.

     

     

  • I've been kind of skimping on long rides with my tri club because of all the drafting and "easy" riding involved for many of the reasons outlined above. However, I do join in when we do routes where there is significant climbing involved. Essentially, the climbs become the Z4 work portion of my ride (we're all scattered anyway due to varying levels of climbing ability), and the rest of it is just for volume.
  • Kim, unless you need the "social" aspect of the group ride, I'd avoid it altogether.  Last weekend during a RR I rode past the 4th roadie pile-up this season.  As always, it was due to the roadies riding too close together and the middle riders not being able to see what's ahead.

    I'm not a fast cyclist, but I've made major gains ever since I dropped the 3 different riding groups I used to join.  Honestly, I don't think roadies know how to ride steady and they generally don't know how to ride hills.

    I'd ditch the big group and find a few other triathlete pals and do workouts with them.  I've learned the past few years that triathletes seem to be much more consistent and disciplined in their cycling than roadies.

  • As Coach R said earlier, IF you can fine the right group then roadie rides can be very benefitial. Unfortunately the world is filled with idiots that just bought a new bike and because they have a cool jersey think they are ready for the tour. For those that have found a group of riders that work together and make each other better riders, GREAT, iron sharpens iron. For the those of us surrounded by the rest of the world, we'll just ride by ourselves.
  • Nate - Most probably they were not more interested in having their conversation.  As an ex road and track racer usually the coversation is to let the wanker ride off on their own and get away from them.  People who are used to riding together in a pace line are very nervous to let someone in that they do not know.  When you are riding 2 inches off the wheel of the person infront of you, you want to know that you can trust them. 

  • Posted By John Picciotto on 13 Jul 2012 08:06 PM

    Nate - Most probably they were not more interested in having their conversation.  As an ex road and track racer usually the coversation is to let the wanker ride off on their own and get away from them.  People who are used to riding together in a pace line are very nervous to let someone in that they do not know.  When you are riding 2 inches off the wheel of the person infront of you, you want to know that you can trust them. 

     

    Yep, one of the cues that I'm in the wrong ride is the amount of conversation. Talking makes me nervous because it means you're not going fast enough and people aren't paying attention. As speed increases, conversation decreases and attention and safety increase, I've found.

Sign In or Register to comment.