I comes down to what's actually in them sodium and electrolytes. I use salt stick and have two different versions one with caffeine and one with out. The caffenie salt stick product has less sodium and other contents (magnesium, chloride, potassium and calcuim). They both also have vitamin D, but you would have to ask someone else why.
Basically you need to look at your complete nutrition. What's in your drink (infinit, on course), gels, do you eat any solid food. Then the salt tab is used to top that level up. I'd don't remember the exact number but I'll try to find something in the wiki or perhaps someone else will chime in. It's 500-1000mg of soduim across all sources see the link below.
EDIT: see this thread and there is a nutrition presntation as well - It's for IM so if you are doing a 1/2 then ask some further questions or perhaps it's in that thread as I did not go through it all. http://members.endurancenation.us/T...fault.aspx
There are some products that have much less sodium and other electorlytes in them which if you are a heavy sweater would require many more tablets.
As Gordon and Beth say, you just need to target the Sodium, Magesium, Potasium etc that you need. I aim for > 600 mgs per hour by adding to what is in my drink.
2x what Beth said about S-caps. I am a heavy sweater so I use the S-caps to suppplement my Infinit when it gets above 85*. Never had any GI problems with them nor any cramping since I started using them (knock on wood, fingers crossed). I like them since they have 341 mg of sodium and 21 mg of potassium per capsule. Just need one per hour.
@ Gordon, Thx for that link. There is so much info here that it is easier to ask via the fourms vs searching for stuff you have a good race in LP and don't forget your electrolytes.
@David - I hear you on asking in the forums as you get personal ancidotes and other great information. Looking forwar toLP as I DNF'ed my last time out at IMC two years ago. Mostly a mental and somewhat nutritional FUBAR.
David...make sure you try it out well before race day. I heard great things about S-CAPS so I implemented them into my training 2 wks before IM Louisville last year. On race day, however, they totally jacked up my bike leg (until I was able to...ahem...get them out of my stomach). Never again. But other people seem to find them beneficial.
I was just looking at my new salt stick plus capsules that contain about 190mg of sodium in 890mg of sodium citrate. I usually try to take 2 per hour, but that is only 380mg/hr. I am a pretty good sweater, although I weigh around 150 pounds. I have felt much better mentally and physically taking salt stick during training and racing (not that another supplement wouldn't work as well). Does anyone have experience taking significantly more than this? I don't take much salt in my drinks.
@ Steve so what is the difference between 190mg of sodium in 890mg of sodium citrate ? Is this to say you are at 1080 mg of sodium end of story or these are 2 different kind of animals ?
@David, not a chemist, but my understanding is that sodium citrate contains the mineral sodium. Sodium citrate is known to control blood acidity (reduce lactic acid build up if I understand the claims correctly) and the sodium is necessary for proper neurological functioning--the lack of which will cause muscle cramping. It seems that the critical element is sodium, not sodium citrate. I guess you could say that they are two different animals. I admit I'm a hack at this stuff.
@ Steve , Thx I didn't think one could handle that much sodium then again I don't know much about Salt Sticks. So who makes them and where can you get them. I'd like to try S-Caps and this salt stick. The E-Caps are out for me this year. it seems as though I need to take a few per hour I'd like to try something else.
Posted By David McLaughlin on 12 Jul 2012 10:51 AM
@ Steve , Thx I didn't think one could handle that much sodium then again I don't know much about Salt Sticks. So who makes them and where can you get them. I'd like to try S-Caps and this salt stick. The E-Caps are out for me this year. it seems as though I need to take a few per hour I'd like to try something else.
I'd have to check but I believe the Salt Stick plus have a recommendation to not exceed 15 caps per day. The regular salt stick which has slightly more 210mg (again from memory) sodium have 10 caps per day max. I'll check these numbers when I get home. I'm not sure of the implications of exceeding that 10 or 15 cap max perhaps Penny or others can comment given the sodium requiremnts of long course racing.
@David, salt stick is the name brand, but there are two types: salt stick and the new salt stick plus. The plus is what contains the sodium citrate and claims to be easy on the stomach. I usually google "salt stick plus amazon" and find it on amazon.com. I also use the salt stick dispenser, but I open to suggestion.
Here's a quote from the salt stick plus guidelines:
"The maximum number of capsules recommended per day is 15, although athletes in extreme conditions and longer events may find it necessary to exceed this number." Different people would read different things between the lines here, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
To me, the 15 tab limit seems a little light for an ironman in hot weather (like Houston) this would be around one dose per hour or about 200mg of sodium per hour. I've seen suggestions that a heavy sweater might need 5 time that amount. In my experience, I've been fine with 2 per hour in training and HIM races. I've never needed to use more than 6 in a day, so I don't have any experience taking more than the normally recommended amount.
I was just looking at my new salt stick plus capsules that contain about 190mg of sodium in 890mg of sodium citrate. I usually try to take 2 per hour, but that is only 380mg/hr. I am a pretty good sweater, although I weigh around 150 pounds. I have felt much better mentally and physically taking salt stick during training and racing (not that another supplement wouldn't work as well). Does anyone have experience taking significantly more than this? I don't take much salt in my drinks.
It is my understanding that the sodium citrate counts towards your sodium totals. It is still sodium, just in a different form. There is some discussion of the usefulness of sodium citrate vs. sodium chloride. Some argue one helps you hydrate better than the other. I'm still undecided.
Steven: Have you determined how much sodium you need per hour through a sweat trial? (Check the wiki for how to do this.)
As far as exceeding 15 Salt Sticks per day I would say if you need that much, I'd look at a different product. That's a lot of pills to track and a lot of things to go wrong.
@ Penny: No formal sweat test. I should probably do this. I have weighed before and after workouts and factored in drinks, but it has been a while. Salt Stick Plus is the first real experiment I have made into serious sodium/electrolyte supplements. I was attracted by the claim of less stomach upset from the sodium citrate. Do you see any reason to favor sodium citrate over sodium chloride? Do you see validity in the claim that sodium citrate reduces blood acidity due to lactic acid? Sorry, I have a lot of questions.
@Steven: I'm still not sold on sodium citrate vs. sodium chloride. I'm less worried about the blood acidity due to lactic acid. Lactic acid that changes the is acidity levels that causes problems in the muscles, not the blood.
No worries about the questions - that's how we all learn!
Comments
David,
I comes down to what's actually in them sodium and electrolytes. I use salt stick and have two different versions one with caffeine and one with out. The caffenie salt stick product has less sodium and other contents (magnesium, chloride, potassium and calcuim). They both also have vitamin D, but you would have to ask someone else why.
Basically you need to look at your complete nutrition. What's in your drink (infinit, on course), gels, do you eat any solid food. Then the salt tab is used to top that level up. I'd don't remember the exact number but I'll try to find something in the wiki or perhaps someone else will chime in. It's 500-1000mg of soduim across all sources see the link below.
EDIT: see this thread and there is a nutrition presntation as well - It's for IM so if you are doing a 1/2 then ask some further questions or perhaps it's in that thread as I did not go through it all. http://members.endurancenation.us/T...fault.aspx
There are some products that have much less sodium and other electorlytes in them which if you are a heavy sweater would require many more tablets.
http://www.hammernutrition.com/prod...s.elt.html
From hammer's website here's what endurolytes have in them
Supplement Facts
Gordon
Ex. I am a huge fan of S-caps, but haven't had to use them much since I've been using the very salt/electrolyte heavy Skratch Labs drink mix.
I aim for > 600 mgs per hour by adding to what is in my drink.
2x what Beth said about S-caps. I am a heavy sweater so I use the S-caps to suppplement my Infinit when it gets above 85*. Never had any GI problems with them nor any cramping since I started using them (knock on wood, fingers crossed). I like them since they have 341 mg of sodium and 21 mg of potassium per capsule. Just need one per hour.
@ Gordon, Thx for that link. There is so much info here that it is easier to ask via the fourms vs searching for stuff you have a good race in LP and don't forget your electrolytes.
@David - I hear you on asking in the forums as you get personal ancidotes and other great information. Looking forwar toLP as I DNF'ed my last time out at IMC two years ago. Mostly a mental and somewhat nutritional FUBAR.
David...make sure you try it out well before race day. I heard great things about S-CAPS so I implemented them into my training 2 wks before IM Louisville last year. On race day, however, they totally jacked up my bike leg (until I was able to...ahem...get them out of my stomach). Never again. But other people seem to find them beneficial.
@David, not a chemist, but my understanding is that sodium citrate contains the mineral sodium. Sodium citrate is known to control blood acidity (reduce lactic acid build up if I understand the claims correctly) and the sodium is necessary for proper neurological functioning--the lack of which will cause muscle cramping. It seems that the critical element is sodium, not sodium citrate. I guess you could say that they are two different animals. I admit I'm a hack at this stuff.
I'd have to check but I believe the Salt Stick plus have a recommendation to not exceed 15 caps per day. The regular salt stick which has slightly more 210mg (again from memory) sodium have 10 caps per day max. I'll check these numbers when I get home. I'm not sure of the implications of exceeding that 10 or 15 cap max perhaps Penny or others can comment given the sodium requiremnts of long course racing.
Gordon
@David, salt stick is the name brand, but there are two types: salt stick and the new salt stick plus. The plus is what contains the sodium citrate and claims to be easy on the stomach. I usually google "salt stick plus amazon" and find it on amazon.com. I also use the salt stick dispenser, but I open to suggestion.
Here's a quote from the salt stick plus guidelines:
"The maximum number of capsules recommended per day is 15, although athletes in extreme conditions and longer events may find it necessary to exceed this number." Different people would read different things between the lines here, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
To me, the 15 tab limit seems a little light for an ironman in hot weather (like Houston) this would be around one dose per hour or about 200mg of sodium per hour. I've seen suggestions that a heavy sweater might need 5 time that amount. In my experience, I've been fine with 2 per hour in training and HIM races. I've never needed to use more than 6 in a day, so I don't have any experience taking more than the normally recommended amount.
It is my understanding that the sodium citrate counts towards your sodium totals. It is still sodium, just in a different form. There is some discussion of the usefulness of sodium citrate vs. sodium chloride. Some argue one helps you hydrate better than the other. I'm still undecided.
Steven: Have you determined how much sodium you need per hour through a sweat trial? (Check the wiki for how to do this.)
As far as exceeding 15 Salt Sticks per day I would say if you need that much, I'd look at a different product. That's a lot of pills to track and a lot of things to go wrong.
@ Penny: No formal sweat test. I should probably do this. I have weighed before and after workouts and factored in drinks, but it has been a while. Salt Stick Plus is the first real experiment I have made into serious sodium/electrolyte supplements. I was attracted by the claim of less stomach upset from the sodium citrate. Do you see any reason to favor sodium citrate over sodium chloride? Do you see validity in the claim that sodium citrate reduces blood acidity due to lactic acid? Sorry, I have a lot of questions.
No worries about the questions - that's how we all learn!