Analyzing where I go wrong on the bike

gamb

Ok, thought i'd throw this out here because it typically happens on hillier courses and i'm pretty dang sure it's a big execution problem.  Even though my head is saying "easy easy easy" my body is going "hard hard hard" when going up hill because I like to go fast (even though I'm not)

So, to keep the suspense to a minimum.  Here's the strava file (same file with garmin connect).  Average HR ended up being 164 which doesn't seem so bad for an olympic but had a lot of spikes on the hills.  The run pretty much didn't happen, i.e. walking because I couldn't catch my breath at all (legs felt fine, as they always do, I run out of lungs)

Now, my Bike HR Zones are as follows based on a LTHR of 175 from a 40k TT a month ago 

Zone 1	114	137
Zone 2	137	156
Zone 3	156	163
Zone 4	163	173
Zone 5	175	179

 

For comparison sake, here's a brick I did (bike, run) where the bike was firmly in zone 3 although a flat course and run off the bike was sub 8 miles building to sub 7:30s and I could have kept going.

I've read coach's article on riding hilly and uphill courses and am planning on working on the feeling of starting easy on the hill and making sure the pressure on my feet doesn't increase but is there another way to work on this?  I live in a hilly area and ride hills all the time but I pretty much hammer them in training for the strength aspect and I assume that is transferring over to when I race.

Thoughts?

steveperx

The hardest thing for me was learning to let other people cook themselves on the hills while I spun easy at a slower speed. Everything Rich says in the wiki page on how to ride hills is true. You will probably catch people who pass you as you reach the crest of the hill or on the downhill, because they will slow down as they crest and allow themselves to recover, while you maintain your effort, and are shifting down (speeding up) as you crest the hill.

It feels unnatural at first (this is a race, right? I have to go hard!), but if you practice it you will find it allows you to be just as fast (if not faster) and avoids burning the matches you might need at mile 18 of the run.

Good luck!

gamb

I'm not so worried about what others do, I just need to figure me out. Funny thing is I never feel like I'm racing anyone else, I just always try to do the best I can do. I guess for my workouts that include bricks i might start trying those on hillier courses instead of the MUP. Makes it harder to get the Z4 intervals exact with stop signs and stop lights in my area but might teach me to pace myself better on the hills and then run off of that

GMAN 19030

It really looks like you are overcooking and mashing things going up the hills. Average bike cadence of 68 is pretty low. What size chainrings and cassette are you using?

gamb

Posted By Bob McCallum on 19 Jul 2012 08:29 AM

It really looks like you are overcooking and mashing things going up the hills. Average bike cadence of 68 is pretty low. What size chainrings and cassette are you using?

 

53/39 and 11-28

I think that average cadence is from the coasting, look at the peaks of the graph it's about 80 and i intentionally go for a lower cadence because I always run out of lungs not legs

Carl

My 2 cents worth....cause I've been in your boat. Your front ring of a 53/39 is NOT considered a compact crank. I also run an 11/28 cassette. Usual overall cadence of 92-97.

Try switching your crank to a compact of 50/34 and I feel things will improve dramatically for you.



You also mention coasting. I'm assuming with a 53/39 and 11/28 that you very seldom spin out down a hill. Are you coasting down the hills vs spinning??  My guess would be you are hammering the hills cause that's what you wrote then coast down them d/t being tired and catching your breath from hammering.  

gamb

yes, I know it's not a compact and I would prefer one, I'm working on that because my roadbike is 50/34 and 11 or 12/28 and I like that setup. I'm debating between a quarq and a powertap so that will decide the crank decision for me.

In my head I was trying to take it easier and "spin more" up the hills but I know i failed

Is there any software that will show where an how long your HR is above a certain number or between a number in a ride or a segment of a ride?

Al Truscott

WKO+ (Training Peaks) and PowerAgent (Joule/PowerTap) will both do that for a whole ride. I'm not sure if they will for intervals, but I'm sure there's a workaround by turing an interval into a whole ride. I don't know about other software, like Garmin, Golden Cheetah

jimmy augustine

Ok, I am bad at execution but one thing that jumos out to me from the garmin data is how much variability there is in the heart rate info. When I try and pace with heart rate, I am trying to keep it steady around a target without peaks and valleys. Just as one would do with power data.
I am bad at it, but that is the goal.
Here is garmin dta from a recent hilly race:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/193449472
I tried to go easy on the way up hill and push harder on the way down with the net effect of keeping my HR steady. I did fine for the first 2/3's of the ride. Then I decided to be an idiot. I paid for it later...

gamb

Thanks Jimmy, I'm going to try and do some of my bike work on hilly courses where I can get my intervals and then work on managing lower zones while climbing

Coach Patrick

Killing yourself in training is a GOOD thing. On race day it's a BAD thing. Being able to discern between them is a MENTAL thing. Acting on it means racing with a PATIENCE thing, as you'll catch all those hammerheads walking on the run (you can believe that b/c you have DONE just that).

rmiller

As I read your original post and looked at your Garmin output, I had the exact same thought as Jimmy - that your HR is very spiky. Look at the garmin output for the brick bike/run you posted - the HR is much more consistent (except for what looks like some rest intervals). The flat course that was ridden on is probably a large part of the explanation.

I only recently started training with power, and one thing I noticed almost immediately is how easy it is to spike watts without feeling it. For example, I'd ride around at 150W and then at the slightest incline, I'd realize I was pushing 200W. I wouldn't feel any different, but a 30% increase in wattage is significant.
As you probably know, the HR lags behind - so even in cases where it feels easy, you could easily be throwing out an extra 20, 30 or 50 watts, and that eventually takes its toll. Maybe you get away with it in the short term, but in the long term the HR spikes more quickly as you cook your legs more.

Only thing I can suggest (short of a power meter, which you say you are debating) is to maybe drop to the lowest gear at any hill but the most gentle incline? Sure, you may spin up it at 110 RPM, but perhaps the power output would be lower as compared to mashing? Plus, learning to be steady at the higher cadence might serve you well in the future as you can push back the spinout speed on the descents.

All just my observations and thoughts. It's quite possible I'm full of BS