Optimal swim candence

Bomber

Lately, I have been thinking a lot about my swim arm cadence and whether that is the reason why I'm so slow...

What is the optimal cadence for an Ironman swim... Would this be something that would make sence to train? 

I learned to swim Total Immersion style - which means that I ahve always been taught to focus on efficiency and slowing down.. Part of this meant that I ahve done a lot of training on taking as few strokes as possible...But for IM swim...wouldn't doing almost the opposite be better?  Fast turnover - always pushing (without going too hard)

Thoughts?

 

Joseph Lombardi

 Bo,  I have been working on cadence as well; and also coming from the Total Immersion direction.  Slow cadence does not necessarily mean slow swimming and the key is slow, steady without dead spots..

Check out SwimSmooth (swimsmooth,com) and their discussion of tempo/rythm. 

I have recently purchased a Wetronome/Tempo Time (beeps rythm under your swim cap) to dial in effective cadence and tempo...I'm not their yet but it is very instructive, simple, helpful tool! (

Good Luck

david ware

With the tempo trainer a great test is swimming sets of, say 200s, decreasing the cadence. Note your time and effort and that helPs hone in on optimal cadence. They have similar sets in their materials and probably on line.

thekidduxc

Not to HJ this thread - but I too suffer from tempo issues. I've worked with a swim instructor in the past. My balance, catch, hand placement, rotation have improved over the last year. I have slowed my cadence so I am not "rushing/overpowering" my stroke rate. But now I feel I am on the opposite end of where I want to be. Does anyone else use a tempo device?

Any tips that I can pick up with Bo would be much appreciated.

David

jhbinsc

I'm in same camp as Bo. Learned to swim age 34 and TI style and my long open water stroke rate is 55 or so. Pool intervals are faster cadence but consume a lot more energy for not much more speed. I'm conflicted and hesitate to change and waste energy but wonder if I'm missing out on a faster swim.

[Deleted User]

I used to have a pretty low swim cadence because I was so focused on gliding and maxing out my distance per stroke. Swim Smooth has a pretty good description of that here:  http://www.swimtypes.com/overglider.html

In general, I think it's better to have a higher swim cadence and shorten your stroke a bit in open water just because of all the bumping around and waves that are pushing you around.

Steve West

I'm a slow swimming late bloomer - didn't learn to freestyle til I was 51, ouch!

I have a slow cadence too but watching videos of myself, there iare 2 times my cadence goes up: when I get tired and if I try to swim faster. In both cases, it isn't so much that I increase the stroke rate. It is more of a function of stroke length for me. At a higher cadence, I cut my stroke way short..... like above my hip, leaving almost a quarter of my stroke incomplete. I also notice that my fastest pace is when I consistantly complete each stroke thru to my thigh.

new2703

Above all else work on technique. for beginner swimmers faster cadence usually means shorte pull/ less efficient technique. Speed will come with time and practice

jamimcginness

Having coached many people in the past, it is my experience that newer/less experienced swimmers tend to cadence slower. As their strength, endurance, and technique improve, their cadence tends to increase relative to their strength gain. If someone doesn't have the mileage under them in the pool and you tell them to increase cadence, in my experience it tends to create a situation where they slip in critical moments on the pull. This just uses up more energy and tends to not be much faster. By emphasizing the roll of the body, the initial catch up front, and smooth stroke technique the cadence will come with experience and pure time spent in the pool. I have seen the swimsmooth.com site and it's a great resource for those trying to gain technique and information. So my word of advice is to not just cadence higher without having the strength and technique under your speedo belt

rbogle

 FWIW Last year I was working under the TI method and had a pretty smooth stroke but low cadence and could never get my speed up consistently. Hovered in the 1:52-1:55/100 range. Looking at Swimsmooth this year, I followed their fixes for what they call an "Overglider" http://www.swimtypes.com/overglider.html , which primarily consists of uping your cadence, and removing any pause in your glide. It dropped 10s / 100 off my TT in one month. I dont feel any more exhausted doing this, but I've yet to get a wetronome, to know exactly my rate. Like Anson said, swimsmooth seems to think that the best open water swimmers  have a short high cadence stroke. They call them swingers: http://www.swimtypes.com/swinger.html and their cadence rates are typically in the 70-90 range. 

rmiller

Posted By Rian Bogle on 23 Aug 2012 03:54 PM

 FWIW Last year I was working under the TI method and had a pretty smooth stroke but low cadence and could never get my speed up consistently. Hovered in the 1:52-1:55/100 range. Looking at Swimsmooth this year, I followed their fixes for what they call an "Overglider" http://www.swimtypes.com/overglider.html , which primarily consists of uping your cadence, and removing any pause in your glide. It dropped 10s / 100 off my TT in one month. I dont feel any more exhausted doing this, but I've yet to get a wetronome, to know exactly my rate. Like Anson said, swimsmooth seems to think that the best open water swimmers  have a short high cadence stroke. They call them swingers: http://www.swimtypes.com/swinger.html and their cadence rates are typically in the 70-90 range. 

I'm glad I saw this.  I've used TI to learn how to swim for distance and felt like I've had a lot of success (~1:15 IM swim).  While I pretty much ignore the swim when it comes to workouts due to the low ROI, I've been wondering what to work on next to get past that next hurdle.  Your times (1:52-1:55) fall right around where mine are - so your response has me thinking that maybe I need to up cadence a bit.  I"ll check out those links - thanks!

mgraffeo

Lots of references to swim smooth site, but none to the chart that answers the question. See about 2/3 of the way down this link

http://www.swimsmooth.com/strokerate.html

I found I had to use the tempo trainer to make the change, and it helps a ton!

Bomber

Excellent suggestions all, thank you

robin sarner

 But during an ironman race might be different recomendation.      Higher rate if in the crowd.     Lower rate if you have open water.   

Joseph Lombardi

 I thought about wearing  the Wetronome at Louisville...it would be great If it were smooth sailing/free water...but when you are in a crowd bumping, being disrupted, etc.  it less effective as a tool...

 

also....it would be great (and maybe a patentable idea ) to have a programmable version...ie. have it programmed to beep at a slower cadence for some portion and then increase slightly.....

 

Anyway; I will continue to work with it in the pool....one issue I had is that I had not had enough time working with it in the pool prior to trying to use it in the race....so not sure if I had dialed in the optimum cadence yet.

 

Kevin Walter

I won't out you, but I think the wetronome is illegal during Ironman.

Joseph Lombardi

 Kevin...waddya mean?....but I understand they are legal...just like you can have your Garmin beep cadence/pace...