Peer Over the Cliff or Hedge Your Bets--More About Managing Intensity and Recovery
I've been noodling this around for a few days trying to figure out what my question is. Not sure I'll express this entirely clearly, but here goes...
Overall, I've been holding up remarkably well this OS. Hitting every workout, and all the paces. I missed a few short runs and that's about it. Then came the VO2max work.
I wasn't too concerned about this block since I was not coming off an IM like I was in '09, nor was I doing the the power hack. (For the record, the power hack is great. Stupidly, I did two blocks last year because DH was helping craft the protocol and I was resident guinea pig. Bad idea.) However...
The uptick in intensity in the VO2max block this year, coupled with the big increase in intensity in the Saturday rides at the same time, pushed my nose over the edge of a cliff. My legs were wooden, I was one beee-atch by the end of the day, and I found myself crying at random times. Hellooo--time to stand down. I did for three days, and feel much better (although my head space could use a little more breathing room).
So what do you think...and what do you do that works?
- is it best to keep pushing to this point I got to--work really hard and come to end of the line without going over? The end result being the need for a small block of time off?
- Or is it better to hedge my bets and pull back sooner? Drop the intensity or duration for a time, and keep going without peering over the edge?
Every year with EN I continue to dial in how to manage this program. This is another piece of my personal intensity vs. recovery puzzle I continue to refine. Thanks for you thoughts!
Comments
Linda - I make no claim to know what's right, just what I've done with similar over-reacing/training symptoms. I discovered that for me there is no formula when to take rest. I've tried a lot of different models: recovery week every 1,2, or 3 weeks? 10 days hard/4 days easy? 1-2 days a week? What I finally gravitated towards was just to take a rest when it was obvious I needed it. Sounds like your option # 1: "work really hard and come to end of the line without going over? The end result being the need for a small block of time off?" is my model, except I tend to back off a tad earlier. Usually I feel REALLY heavy in the legs, exhausted at all times, and sleepy about two hours after a tough workout. If I then get short with my wife JUST ONCE, I know I've gone too far, and need 1-2 days off. Sometimes I can go 5-6 weeks before getting to that point, sometimes only 5-6 days - depends on lots of factors, like time in season, outside interests/work, diet, weather, intensity and/or length of workouts, who knows what else? So I pay attention to those physicial signs, and take the day off BEFORE I start picking on others.
The alternative ("Drop the intensity or duration for a time, and keep going without peering over the edge") might also work, but I suspect it would not produce as good an outcome in terms of improved fitness for racing. Might be better for life and overall fitness, just depends on what your goal for training is.
This got me to thinking about getting some actual data. I looked at my training log for 2009, and discovered that the only days which had no entries were either travel days, or occasional days in the week before or after an IM or HIM - taper and recovery issues.
But what I DID do, now and then, was take 30-36 hours off. Say an easy swim or weight session one morning, and then an easy run or swim in the evening of the next day - that's kinda like two days off, really. So I guess I'm more of a periodic "active recovery" type of guy, rather then collapsing every now and then.
Linda,
As always, thank you for the transparency of process; it helps us all.
The older I get the more of a hedger I become. Consistency trumps intensity.
That said, how do we know what we're capable of until we go past it? Only one way to find out: do it. Part of the glory of the wisdom of age is knowing ourselves more clearly, our capacities and limitations proven through the crucible of experience.
You know my thoughts regarding the VO2 max workouts. It sounds like you've been insightful enough to stop the madness before it was really too late. In my run-up to IM Florida last year I played it conservatively and still had to take many unplanned days off; I was alert to any signs of over-reaching and was determined to avoid the pitfall of keeping up with athletic Joneses. I was shocked at how much time I took off to truly complete my key workouts; in the end I was cracking fit; you know the rest of the story.
I really enjoyed Al's "tell": if he's short with his wife ONCE, he backs off athletically. Smart man, good husband.
Great input, Al. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and look back through your data.
The 30-36 hour break does work well. It's just that I haven't always been able to fit the workouts in at that time. But as my kids move up and out, it's a whole new world of workout opportunities! I'm going to be more cognizant of that option and use it more.
In thinking about this A LOT the past few days, I do think pushing deliberately and hard, but backing off sooner than I did this time, is likely the best approach given my fitness and racing goals. I don't want to back off too soon, but I don't want to go as far as did this time into over-reaching. Learning and refining--it's a work in progress.
Bill,
I am really trying to get inside your IMFL training experience since I think you were one of EN's smartest trainers and racers last year. Getting too cooked messes up my consistency--to the point of completely boogering a whole season. After these past few weeks , I finally get it--I hope it's internalized at long last. I won't ignore it those warning signs going forward.
I also tink about my oldest son who trained on an elite US tri development team with Jarrod Shoemaker. He made it to collegiate nationals after the smart coach cut him BACK to workout levels below others on the team. He was still working crazy hard, but the coach figured out he is an individual who absorbs the work to a certain point, then he starts sliding backwards. Others had higher tolerances. It was hard for him not to want to do more, more, more. But once they dialed in the proper levels of intensity for him--he qualified for nationals with one of the top times. The kid is wicked fast at everything--esp running. It was never a question of ability with him, but of the ability to absorb training to perform. Maybe it's just how he is, and I am. (Varying ability notwithstanding.
)
The older I get, the more lenient I get with my workout schedule. As one of many of us who used to live and die by the schedule, I've learned to listen more intently and react more quickly. I know that, with the base fitness we now all have, there are really only a few key workouts a week, maybe every 2 weeks, that affect race outcome...everything else is fitness filler.
As we age, we get better because we're smarter, which translates into fitness for us "A" types....follow the plan, but not into the abyss.
For the record, in week 13 of 20, I've JUST NOW felt a quantum leap in fitness....why now ? Not sure, but stay at it and its all good.
B
Please keep us posted!
P
I read most of the recents posts and somewhat like the other Linda (I am the new Linda) I am in a real funk for trying to keep up. I am new to all of this and can't seem to get my "testing done", I still haven't done my numbers in order to know my actual thresholds, Vo2 max, etc. I tend to go all out at training, never to the length that others seem to do but I go in spurts. I am now in a kind of desperate "doubting myself". I did a sprint tri (reverse) last weekend. It was horrible weather with tons of rain and tons of wind, freezing cold and just miserable conditions. When I got to the pool I was DEAD, it was the first time I have EVER stopped in the middle of a swim and tried to get my breath. It was on a marine base and the pool was 50 meters, although it was only FOUR laps, when I dropped in I was just done in. My transition from the bike to the swim was 4 mins. 19 seconds and should have been about 90 seconds. I woke up the following morning and my legs were like lead, all week, I told myself to take a week off
. I made it 6 days and then yesterday got on my indoor trainer and tried some easy intervals. I was sweating profusly and just had to stop. Got my wet clothes off, climbed in bed and fell ASLEEP in the middle of the day for over an hour. Today I thought I would try again and still don't have what it takes. It is raining out so again not wanting to go to the freezing pool at the Y just doing some core workout, small weights, etc.
Don't even know how to ask the ??
But I guess it is this, my key race is June 5th in Hawaii (1/2 IM). How much time can I realistically take off (giving myself true recovery time) and still be able to jump into my training schedule? Tecnically I am 11-12 weeks from race day, but according to my "schedule" I am supposed to be doing some pretty intense training. I may have learned a good lesson that I had no business doing what I call a "small tri" this past week, think mentally it has put we worse off because I disappointed myself with my results and now I feel competely stuck.
Guess question is this, if I still haven't done all the zone testing and the quantifying tests that EN asks us to do, when should i do them? Wait until I feel rested again?? Unsure when that will be? Is 56 maybe to old to be following the types of training that EN has designed for me? My injuries are limiting my rides and my runs. As you can see I am just kind of lost here.
Can you guide me to a 'place' in all of the massive downloads I have neatly arranged in a 3 hole notebook? A place that might help me understand how to get my arms around all of this??
Sorry if this is foggy, but guess that shows how I am really doing
in otherwords, I am not managing intensity OR recovery and not sure how to resolve it........
Linda,
Thank you for presenting an interesting thought provoking perspective. I have been trying to get my head around these issues along with the concept of being a self trained athlete.
In that this is my first time through the OS (and Power Clinic) I tend to want to trust the plan vs. my head. During this OS I have felt toasted but kept pushing and plugging – hitting every interval/wattage goal as much as possible and believing that RnP and the EN community understands this process better than me.
However, at week five of the Power Clinic I ran out of gas. I could no longer hold or even reach the VO2 Max interval numbers. Week six was a modification of the plan. Then I moved back into the November OS and have felt good so far.
So I tend to push myself over the cliff in the name of following the plan, and once I have gone over that edge, I belatedly know it is time to rest. My concern is that I, personally, will use the self coached narrative as an excuse to back off when I feel less than 100%, and thus miss any potential gains from wussing out on the work. So instead I tend to refuse to listen to my body and my head, and do my absolute best to stick with the plan. I keep blasting away until my bullets are long gone.
I am certain there is some middle ground here, but I have yet to find it.
Linda -
I hear several questions here:
- Do I need to do the EN testing to use the training program and have a good half IM race on June 5 in HI?
- What are the things I should pay attention to amidst the sea of information here in EN, and how do I find them?
- How can I reasonably start to get ready for the June 5 race, given my current levels of fitness and understanding of EN training, testing, and racing?
My thoughts on these: First, sharing my own start-up experience, I joined EN last July, in the middle of my season, with two big races coming up in Oct and Nov for which I already had a training plan in place. To be honest, I just motored on thru with my old plans for the first race, and gradually converted over to EN during Sept-Nov, or 3-5 months into my life here at EN. It took me that long to get a good feel for all of the knowledge and the training methods and philosophy, and I had 10 years of tri experience along with whatever value 24 years of education provides. I would not expect anyone to be up to full speed within a month of joining up here.
Second, I think you have a lot of potential mentors, if you haven't linked up with one already, to be a data guide for you. Asking your question in the women's forum would probably inundate you with offers to help.
Third, use the coaches' "Macro" thread, for help with your question about how to structure your training time between now and June 5th.
Since this is the Old Folks' forum (and I'm certainly one of those OFs), I would add that while rest is always your friend, so is training. There's no question that all of us can continue to make improvements from whatever level we're at, whatever age we're at. The key is knowing at what level of intensity we should be working. If level "100" is getting you too tired, drop it down to 75 or 80, or even 50 or 60, and start from there, no matter what the plan says. While power meters and pacing do make that whole process a lot easier, it does take some time to learn the nuances. The "Power and Pace" forum threads are a great place to ask questions about that.
Now, where on this site would I go "first", if I had to do it over again? Well, we all learn in different ways, some people by reading, others by listening, others by viewing a video, and some by chatting with other folks. Luckily, all are available here. The training map is a great place to start; click on the swim, bike, or run buttons, and mulitple different media are included in each. Browsing/slogging around there helped me a lot. Also, the Power Webinar (does cost $) was invaluable to help me understand the depth and value of power meters for bike training and racing; it was going back to school to learn vocabulary and concepts new to me. And this eBook (free) served a similar function.
Finally, I hope you have a BIG box fan if you are on your trainer (indoors or out); sweating is mandatory, but does not have to be debilitating.
Al O,
I think you are my twin brother. I have been thinking along the exact same lines. In my attempt not to get completely fried, I get unneerved about not doing :enough. However, I feel I'm getting closer to dialing in that middle ground. I would say that given our personalities, our drive, and our willingness to empty the clip in the name of "following the plan," just how much will we really wuss out? Not much, I'm quite sure. I think this year I will shoot for a little undercooked, because heaven knows, the other way around is not a place you want to be. Maybe, just maybe, tempering it a little more than not will get me to the sweet spot.
I have to say, Bill Russell, figured it out, computed his own game, and trained right to his own personal limit--which was often less than the EN plans advised. He got it right, and it showed in his results. I hope to find the smarts to figure it out and do the same.
Knowing my A race was in September, I waited until Jan to start the OS, even though I felt a ton of pressure to start Nov OS. When I did start, I felt ready. I did the Power Clinic. And I was well rested when I started it. Afterwards, RnP were very insistent that we take an easy week after finishing. Initially, I didn't, was certain it wasn't necessary. Then I started thinking- "isn't this how you got into trouble before?" I was so afraid that I would lose my gains. How could I possibly get a benefit from the PC if I took some rest? I thought it would be extremely difficult to spend a week resting rather than testing. But it turned out I was more fatigued than I had realized. Yes I was sad to see my CTL line drop (I know it really does not mean I lost fitness), but the following week (this week just finished) I have been spot on with every workout and feeling great.
It is a trial and error process. One that has ever shifting goal lines. I think when we start questioning a need for a break, then that is often when we really need to take a break. I am doing the self talk regularly where I am reminding myself that rest is good and a day or week of standing down is not going to make or break my big day. I doubt I will have as much trouble convincing myself to rest when the next test week comes (and I rest instead).
As for Linda H (shrink) and the knees, not sure when you had the surgery, but you questioned if you were doing too much too soon. I'll bet you are spot on with that guess.