IM Marathon
I just joined EN last week. I will be doing LP next year And I am looking for some advice on running the entire marathon. I have done 8 IM's all with similar results. I run the first half then it becomes a run/walk for the remainder of race. I am shooting for 11:30 or faster and the only way to achieve this is to run the Mary. Thanks Dave
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@ Dave, so the saying around here is that there is no good bike followed by a bad run in IM. For the wicked smart members to help they will need some more information.
What were your bike times?
How did those compare to your race rehersals?
Are you a heart rate or power athlete?
What was your race execution plan for the last IM you did?
Dave - EVERYTHING @ EN is focused of providing a successful answer to your question, "How do I run the whole marathon in an IM". Really. The training plans, biking and nutrition on race day, everything, is meant to enable you to do just that. So, there is obviously no simple, quick answer. The simplest thing to say is, "Learn everything here, then follow the plan for training and on race day, and you WILL have a successful race."
But you probably want more than that, like, Where to Start? I suggest going to this page in the wiki.
members.endurancenation.us/Resource...fault.aspxhttp://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/108/Default.aspx?topic=Race+Execution+(Ironman)
Read not only that page, but all the links in red. Truly absorbing all that info should take you, oh, about 6 months, by which time you will be ready for your first Race Rehearsal for IM LP. That event should see you starting to have all the peices truly click into place.
In the meantime, while you are learning and absorbing the information, ask questions, and try stuff out. As many of us say, this stuff really does work. Like you, I ran/walked through my first 6-7 IM marathons. then I started using the prinicples of Race Execution on disoplay here @ EN, and I've been very successful ever since.
Dave,
As Paul mentioned some more background would be good. Also what were your previous IM times?
Bascially get faster in the OS, single sport block and the get faster plan. Commit to working on the speed and have no volume goals for the OS.
The wiki has the season planning laid out for us. Running most of the marathon will come down to execution and pushing through at mile 18 of the run. Coach P qualified for Kona while walking some of the run course in LP two years ago so don't think you have to run all of the course.
In any event bike execution is key to getting in a good marathon. EN has excellent guidance on race execution. IM bike at .7-.75 of fuctional Threshold (FTP, again there is also heart rate guidance) then run the long run pace +30 seconds for the first 6 miles. there are calculators that in the resources tab that will give you all this information.
Following the season plan in the wiki you need to use the out season (OS) to push up your FTP (assuming power) and VDot. If you don't have power you can still hammer the bike hard using heart rate. This will be 14 weeks of OS. I highly recommend joining the OS groups. Following that you set up a single sport block, assess your weakness or break it up in to two different dike and run blocks. Here you need to be very objective, post your previous results but you also need to know if you went too hard on the bike you will cook yourself for the run. Additionally many people start out the run too fast and burn their race in those first 6 miles. My point don't just assume your run is the weakness.
FInally when you get in to the IM plan for 12 weeks train with the nutrition, do a sweat test (determines how much fluid you need), and utilize the race rehersals. If you have nutirtion issues (bloated, sick etc) or body composition get in to the nutrition forums and we also have a partnership with Core diet (it's extra).
Given that you have done several IM all the same I'd say it comes down to getting some speed in the OS and you can get lots of time through following EN race execution guidance.
Gordon
Dave,
First, welcome to EN,and second, I would mention that there is a fair amount of guidance/resources on the wiki pertaining to IM race execution and pacing, specifically about pacing on the bike.
I mention that as a pretty key point as it's almost impossible for me to overstate how large of a role proper bike execution plays in your ability to run the marathon. That is certainly not to say that you can nail the bike execution and have a great run without putting adequate preparation into the run as well, but it is to say that you can still easily blow the run portion on the bike no matter how great a runner you are. Cue to videos we see every year of Pros walking the marathon at Kona after they blow up. These are obviously dudes with amazing run fitness, but when you blow it, you blow it.
So first qualifying question, you mention you have completed 8 IMs, a nontrivial number no doubt, have you completed any open marathons? What was your run training like before your IMs, were you able to completely run your 16, 18, or a 20 mile run(s) in training? What is your best IM marathon split of the 8 so far? Note that I in no way think that running an open marathon is a prereq to running an Ironman marathon, but it helps to establish a little insight into your running history.
Second qualifying question, do you happen to have a power meter on your bike? Did you use any sort of pacing strategy (power, HR, RPE) for your previous bike legs? How dialed in was your nutrition plan for the bike on these events? Did you have specific hydration, calorie and electrolyte goals per hour in your nutrition plan or did you simply drink/eat to thirst? This is another *huge* aspect of IM run performance, it is critical that you enter the run leg properly fueled and hydrated or you will be facing an extremely uphill battle from the start.
Naturally as you would probably expect, there is no single simple answer to the question of how you run the IM marathon. It all comes down to a very well-oiled execution across the entire day, built on a solid foundation of fitness. The absolute keys to this are going to be maintaining proper pacing on the bike, ideally using a power meter to stay within strict power zones and target a specific Intensity Factor and total TSS. This will be coupled with a practiced nutrition plan to ensure you exit the bike not only on relatively fresh legs, but with the fuel and hydration you need to run, not merely survive the marathon. Lastly of course you will need some running legs and a proper pacing and hydration plan for the run itself, although in my opinion these are far simpler / easier to execute, and even less important overall than your bike pacing and nutrition plans.
Now, specifically, how do we do all the things I just mentioned? Fortunately basically all of EN is built around preparing and educating you to achieve what I just laid out, and thankfully we've got a good amount of time before LP next year, so basically I would say sit back, participate, learn, share your own lessons, get ready to work hard and we'll get you there.
X2 on what everybody said , read, learn, train, then execute.
When you get to executing the IM Marathon the 1 EN thing that helped me the most this year was walking 30 steps every mile starting at mile 1. Yep its hard to wrap your head around it and I was stubborn and refused for 3 IM's. Finally tried it on the 4th IT WORKS! If you follow an EN IM plan you will use this technique during your training on your long runs and you will see that it works and carry that confidence into race day.
I will sound a bit like a broken record (if you are old enough to know what a record is)....but everything about EN is designed against your challenge...you will not be dissapointed...dive into the Wiki, the plans, the forums....and you will begin to evolve your personal answer....I just urge you to be patient and you will not be disappointed!
Dave,
If you are running your IM marathon within 30 minutes of your stand alone time that's pretty decent. Within 20 minutes I don't know how many people get that especially with 7 hours of activity before. From the numbers you posted on time you could get some gains on the bike for sure. If you want to get under 4 hours on the run you will need some extra speed and the OS will help with that on the bike and run.
If you have any questions about power post them in that forum. It's a great tool that we use to set training and racing zones. There is a power webinar in the wiki, free version and also an version that cost a few extra buck. I purchased the full version when I started with power in 2009. I'd recommend the full version but the free one will get you going as well. This is one of the few extra dollar things in EN and well worth it in my opinion.
Gordon