I think Rich makes an EXCELLENT point, especially given the strong presence EN will have at IMLP and IMMoo in 2013 (and KONA!). What better way to turn this disappointing situation into a positive than by EN athletes stepping up to the moral plate and pledging to train and race clean? Let the Work speak for itself...
So the USADA had to go to a sports training institute in Australia to have someone do an anti-doping test which they admit is NOT CONVENTIONAL on blood samples that are 2-3 years old and then can't say that this is conclusive evidence but call it a "compelling argument". Meanwhile the maximum half-life of any synthetic Erythropoietin is 14 hours? Is it me or does anyone else think the USADA is full of it?
Not to beat this to death... but earlier this year, I was still in the "Lance probably cheated for his TDF wins, but everyone else did too, so he was just the best of the cheaters anyway so no biggie" camp. After more and more has come out, it is clear to me (my opinion of what the facts are) that during those tours, he was not only benefiting from the best of the best in terms of 'drugs', he was the ring leader. He locked up the best doctor in the sport and had access to the must cutting edge drugs that were not available to others. Did they all cheat? Absolutely? Was he the best at it? For certain, yes.
I also think this, by itself, has (had) no relevance to today and I was in the "the USADA is on a witch hunt" camp until recently. But the more I read, the more I am convinced that Lance was setting up his ol' pals again to figure out how to dope again to win Ironman. And this, to me, is the most despicable part. I can 'overlook' past doping because he was in an era of doping - he just did it better than anyone else. But he can't say that now - to me, he simply kept form to do whatever was necessary to win, including doping. And just like Mike G, that has me pissed.
And I'll join the EN Clean Racers Team - not that anyone would be worried that I would be cheating anyway. Heh heh heh...
Great discussion. I'd like to go back to Mike's initial post. The only thing I know about Dr. Ferrari is that he had advanced doping programs for elite athletes. Is there any rational reason for LA to get advice from him, if it wasn't related to finding the right PE cocktail to win Kona? Based on the material in the article, it certainly doesn't sound like Ferrari's son had any real insight for Ironman training.
If the only reason to go to Ferrari is for the drugs, than there is no reason to think LA was planning on competing clean. He hasn't learned any lessons and instead of clearing his name through an athletic comeback he'd just extend his performance enhancing legacy.
I want WTC to test the winner of the M70-74 at Kona. Take a look at his time compared to the other guys in his AG. Testing is too costly to check out the entire podium, but if they would just check the top, then it would deter others. Age Groupers generally do not have the resources that the pro's do to evade testing protocols so it's more likely they would err and be caught if they are using something. I'm not saying the winner of the M70-74 is using anything, but he's so far out ahead of his peers that it would be good for him to say he passed a test. Inquiring minds want to know!
I was going to post a comment and then I read Greg's comment. All I can say is I am in the same camp as Greg and have gone through the same transformation. Greg, thank you for expressing what I was thinking.
I find myself in an interesting place. I had a discussion with someone today where they used they "may other people are doing it to" argument. I find myself now fully in the camp of agreeing with Greg's comment and reversing my course on LAs past experience.... was, is and probably will always be a cheater.
I must admit I still find it amazing that sentient humans still say things like "Lance may have doped". The evidence shows that he corrupted a generation of US cyclists. He was able through his sponsors to fund the most sophisticated doping program in professional sports. I just hope that through this exposure we can finally root out the corrupt elements in the UCI who enabled this corruption of a great sport.
I also watched the 46 min video and, for the most part, it seemed to be just a rehashing of old news that I read about years ago. I found the recently released 200 page report much more damning, sickening and problematic.
Apparently Dr Ferrari is being busted on some pretty serious charges. Also, triathletes should be pissed but not only at Lance.
"Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport has lifted the lid on the financial aspects of the Padua doping investigation, suggesting that Italian and Swiss police have uncovered a huge system of money laundering and fraud linked to a doping ring involving 20 professional riders and athletes from triathlon and biathlon."
As the layers of this onion continue to unpeel what ever gave Lance Armstrong the idea that he could keep this stuff hidden? The web of deceit continues to grow, expand and become more and more complex with the numbers of people that need to stay silent growing by the minute. I guess once you are all in, there is no backing away.
P.S. While the Nike news was interesting, I found the Trek decision to stop sponsoring LA even more sobering. The pairing of those two over the years was absolutely critical to both parties. I see it another step towards the total annihilation of everything LA related.
Giro dropped him too, from what I heard. And Anheuser-Busch won't renew after 2012 either. No legitimate business can continue to outright support him without backlash.
There was a great article in the NYT (I believe) that demonstrated how him and Livestrong are completely intertwined, so these sponsors continuing to support Livestrong are indirectly still supporting him.
Although it goes as given, i hope, that all EN athletes train and race clean, I mean why the hell bother doing triathalon at all if you not doing it with your natural potential? I like the idea of a Team wide pledge to be clean. I agree with Jess, 600+ signatures as a unit put out into the world would say something positive. It would show what we believe is important about sport in general and triathlon in particular. Of course maybe thats just my indefatigable optimism getting in the way again. What would be the downsides to this?
This whole thread get at something that always confounds me about sports, why do people hero worship the pros (and I'm guilty of it too)? Yeah they are really good, and they hammer like its their job, which it is; but no one worships me for being good at the job I get paid for. Really in the end arent pros just billboards and marketing tools, and nothing more.
I mean AGers are WAY tougher I think. Especially when it comes to the demands of life and sport balance. We pay our own way, we get up at 4am to workout before work and family are online, and stay up late to finish the dishes/bills/etc. We do everything we can to balance a crapload of other commitments and then we go out everyday and every race and bust A$$ for the FUN of it. Thats who is awe inspiring to me, thats what gives me shivers. My heroes are always the MOP/BOP athletes who simply toe the line.
@ Bill, Do tell. I posted on another thread that this is no ordinary age grouper. I have no inside scoop other than he was someone I wanted to see tested because his performances were so good for his age. There are a bunch more I wonder about.
Paul, so I guess it's true, and we should assume those jaw dropping performances we see in people our age are as tainted as a Floyd Landis massage or an Alberto Contador steak dinner. Makes me sad and angry at the same time. I really don't want to have to worry about this.
Comments
I think Rich makes an EXCELLENT point, especially given the strong presence EN will have at IMLP and IMMoo in 2013 (and KONA!). What better way to turn this disappointing situation into a positive than by EN athletes stepping up to the moral plate and pledging to train and race clean? Let the Work speak for itself...
So the USADA had to go to a sports training institute in Australia to have someone do an anti-doping test which they admit is NOT CONVENTIONAL on blood samples that are 2-3 years old and then can't say that this is conclusive evidence but call it a "compelling argument". Meanwhile the maximum half-life of any synthetic Erythropoietin is 14 hours? Is it me or does anyone else think the USADA is full of it?
I also think this, by itself, has (had) no relevance to today and I was in the "the USADA is on a witch hunt" camp until recently. But the more I read, the more I am convinced that Lance was setting up his ol' pals again to figure out how to dope again to win Ironman. And this, to me, is the most despicable part. I can 'overlook' past doping because he was in an era of doping - he just did it better than anyone else. But he can't say that now - to me, he simply kept form to do whatever was necessary to win, including doping. And just like Mike G, that has me pissed.
And I'll join the EN Clean Racers Team - not that anyone would be worried that I would be cheating anyway. Heh heh heh...
If the only reason to go to Ferrari is for the drugs, than there is no reason to think LA was planning on competing clean. He hasn't learned any lessons and instead of clearing his name through an athletic comeback he'd just extend his performance enhancing legacy.
But here's an interesting 46 min video and story, telling the dirty side of things...
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm
Now that's my rant over!
Have a great outseason folks!
"Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport has lifted the lid on the financial aspects of the Padua doping investigation, suggesting that Italian and Swiss police have uncovered a huge system of money laundering and fraud linked to a doping ring involving 20 professional riders and athletes from triathlon and biathlon."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gazzetta-reveals-scale-of-doping-and-money-laundering-under-dr-ferrari
P.S. While the Nike news was interesting, I found the Trek decision to stop sponsoring LA even more sobering. The pairing of those two over the years was absolutely critical to both parties. I see it another step towards the total annihilation of everything LA related.
There was a great article in the NYT (I believe) that demonstrated how him and Livestrong are completely intertwined, so these sponsors continuing to support Livestrong are indirectly still supporting him.
http://lavamagazine.com/news/wtc-announces-anti-doping-rule-violation-2/#axzz29h9uyHBx
Kevin Moats? HAHAHAHA! Perfect.
x4 Roy, Jess, Gregg. What about a EN pledge?
Although it goes as given, i hope, that all EN athletes train and race clean, I mean why the hell bother doing triathalon at all if you not doing it with your natural potential? I like the idea of a Team wide pledge to be clean. I agree with Jess, 600+ signatures as a unit put out into the world would say something positive. It would show what we believe is important about sport in general and triathlon in particular. Of course maybe thats just my indefatigable optimism getting in the way again. What would be the downsides to this?
This whole thread get at something that always confounds me about sports, why do people hero worship the pros (and I'm guilty of it too)? Yeah they are really good, and they hammer like its their job, which it is; but no one worships me for being good at the job I get paid for. Really in the end arent pros just billboards and marketing tools, and nothing more.
I mean AGers are WAY tougher I think. Especially when it comes to the demands of life and sport balance. We pay our own way, we get up at 4am to workout before work and family are online, and stay up late to finish the dishes/bills/etc. We do everything we can to balance a crapload of other commitments and then we go out everyday and every race and bust A$$ for the FUN of it. Thats who is awe inspiring to me, thats what gives me shivers. My heroes are always the MOP/BOP athletes who simply toe the line.
just my $.02
@ Bill, Do tell. I posted on another thread that this is no ordinary age grouper. I have no inside scoop other than he was someone I wanted to see tested because his performances were so good for his age. There are a bunch more I wonder about.
Paul, so I guess it's true, and we should assume those jaw dropping performances we see in people our age are as tainted as a Floyd Landis massage or an Alberto Contador steak dinner. Makes me sad and angry at the same time. I really don't want to have to worry about this.
And the hits just keep coming: Rabobank pulls out of cycling.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/19/us-cycling-rabobank-idUSBRE89I0DC20121019
Not liking that at all... hope my little cousin did not sign for Rabobank!