Aaron....exactly the same experience for me this morning...if I hadn't had the belt about to throw me off the back, I would have slowed....BUT, we were racing ourselves...Hopefully the competition factor will offset. Great job.
Team, super impressive posts today all around! Today I did my test but do not have anything near as exciting to share. It is raining and 45 degrees here with 15 mph winds. I had the option of the track in this weather or the treadmill. I went to the track. I probably went out too fast with mile 1 at 6:18, then faded to 6:28 and 6:37 ending up with a 50 VDOT, same as last test. I did not feel quite right today for whatever reason and this test was all I had just to hit the same old number.
I do, however, get a lot of satisfaction out of reading each of your crushing reports and improvements! Look out Thursday, training with new zones!
The smell of burning sneaker treads in the air can only mean that this group is ON FIRE! Wow. Amazing results by everyone. And remember, it's still only February, folks.
Snow and ice in NoVa this morning so I decided to skip the test and hit the treadmill in the basement for a 3x1 workout Got half way through the first mile and was feeling decent so I decided to do a sneak attack 5K test. Glad I did because I beat my old time by 20 seconds. Finished with 18:53 and a 6:04 average pace so VDOT jumps from 52 to 53. First time below 19:00 so I'm pretty pumped about that. The last few tests were on the track so I'm not sure if it's a real apples-to-apples comparison but I'll take it. Rough splits were:
6:12
6:05
6:03
:30
Incline was 1% and temp was 72. I'd like to avoid future tests on the t-mill if at all possible.
over 30 seconds improvement! Man, I'm fired up this morning. Towards the last 0.5 mi, I was starting to think I might be able to catch Steve's time, but that'll have to wait for another day.
Mike
Sub 18s w/ over 30 secs improvement! This is really "Getting it Done!" Congrats Mike!
@ Mike - that is smokin. As for beating Mr. Chavez, I do not think that we are old enough yet
Never would have crossed my mind until I hit the 2 mile mark. I started to take it up too late to have any real shot at it. Guess that whole wisdom with age thing is true
Finished with 18:53 and a 6:04 average pace so VDOT jumps from 52 to 53. First time below 19:00 6:12
6:05
6:03
:30
Chris W - the burning smell may have possibly been the treadmill you were pounding into the ground! I have a lot to learn from this group that keeps raising the bar! SIncere congrats on the improvement!!
I just got over the flu or whatever it was this weekend and haven't felt 100%
SUB 18 CLUB AGAIN!!
1st mile ...5:52
2nd mile ...5:50
3rd mile ... 5:41
last .1 .... :34
Total ... 17:57
So these are the times you generate after having a drill bit pulled out of your leg and coming off a weekend of the stomach flu?? Like I said before, there's no way you're human! Sincerely, Trent, congratulations showing us all that there really are no excuses and keeping that bar high for us!!
Everyone is just absolutely crushing the tests!! I think if we held a 5K in this area and the Nov. OS group was there it would be an almost cleanup of the podiums all the way around.
@Chris G. ... Do you really think I would have let you beat me by 2 seconds if we were racing together? I think not. It would have been cool to see the knock down drag out sprint at the end.
@Mike G. ... You have really been throwing it down lately. Awesome to see your progress. 30sec. at these paces is freaking huge. Keep it up and giving us something to strive after.
@Matt A. .... Please don't make us all look too bad when you decide to test. And yes you have to do it alone, in the cold, and dark, and some snowy streets to make it count.
The smell of burning sneaker treads in the air can only mean that this group is ON FIRE! Wow. Amazing results by everyone. And remember, it's still only February, folks.
Snow and ice in NoVa this morning so I decided to skip the test and hit the treadmill in the basement for a 3x1 workout Got half way through the first mile and was feeling decent so I decided to do a sneak attack 5K test. Glad I did because I beat my old time by 20 seconds. Finished with 18:53 and a 6:04 average pace so VDOT jumps from 52 to 53. First time below 19:00 so I'm pretty pumped about that. The last few tests were on the track so I'm not sure if it's a real apples-to-apples comparison but I'll take it. Rough splits were:
6:12
6:05
6:03
:30
Incline was 1% and temp was 72. I'd like to avoid future tests on the t-mill if at all possible.
Chris--That's awesome, though it would have been fun to race on the track for all the glory. I'm hoping to find a way to do a tactical race sometime--start off with 10 people whose estimated times are all within a minute or so for a 5k, and race the old fashioned way instead of just against the clock.
I had a treadmill breakthrough this morning. I've never been able to run on a treadmill. I think it's a mental thing--the short deck screws us my stride, or I'm afraid of falling off the back or something. Whatever the reason, I cannot seem to run faster than 8:00/miles inside for any distance. Because I didn't test today, I did 2 x 1 mile at z4. I got in my 45 minutes total and then spent another 45 shoveling snow. But I ran those two miles at 6:48, which makes me think that I'll be able to learn to run fast inside. WIth the way this winter is going, I'll need to master that.
I'm moving the schedule around a bit because of a ski trip. Tomorrow is as scheduled, Friday will be an extra bike, ski Sat, Sun, and Mon, and resume the normal schedule on Tuesday. I may try to run once on the treadmill on Sunday or Monday, though I'm not sure how going from sea level to 9,600 feet will affect me. I have no problems skiing without acclimitazation, but I've never tried to run. (The highest ski run where I'm going starts at 13,000.)
Everyone is just absolutely crushing the tests!! I think if we held a 5K in this area and the Nov. OS group was there it would be an almost cleanup of the podiums all the way around.
@Chris G. ... Do you really think I would have let you beat me by 2 seconds if we were racing together? I think not. It would have been cool to see the knock down drag out sprint at the end.
@Mike G. ... You have really been throwing it down lately. Awesome to see your progress. 30sec. at these paces is freaking huge. Keep it up and giving us something to strive after.
@Matt A. .... Please don't make us all look too bad when you decide to test. And yes you have to do it alone, in the cold, and dark, and some snowy streets to make it count.
@Trent - The only reason I was running that fast [or even testing at all for that matter] was due to your taunting and assurance that you would be running 17:45 or was it 17:30? Regardless, think of it like this from now on...no matter how fast you are running or how good or bad you are feeling about it at the time, just picture me always beating you by 2 seconds :-) That should help...
I think it would be fun to all race head to head. To keep it fair we can each stab Matt once just prior to the start or make him kick 50 yds in a pool, his choice
I think it would be fun to all race head to head. To keep it fair we can each stab Matt once just prior to the start or make him kick 50 yds in a pool, his choice
I think two drill bits would do less damage the a kick set with fins
I'm serriously impressed with all of you guys ... anything under 18 is so impressive to run solo. Thanks for motivating me to step it up and get back to running hard.
I'm now the second member of the November OS to drill into himself. I was just assembling a table for my wife and drilled into my hand with a 1/8" bit. It only penetrated 1/8" or so, but perhaps my biking and running prowess will begin to match Trent's. And the rest of you, watch out with power tools!
After only a 3watt bump in my bike test I wanted some redemption on the run - got it! PR by 1:08 and 3pt vDot bump - 21:20 is nothing compared to all you wicked fast sub 18s - sub 20 might be a dream, but the zones to get there are already looking like a nightmare! congrats to all the big winners
Not much too cheer about for me. I ran a 20:27 this morning, down a whopping 2 seconds from the beginning of the OS. But, I haven't been focusing on speed work, so again, I'll take what I got and be content with it.
I did my test tonight on the treadmill at the local YMCA. Last go I blew up at 2.25 or so, walked a bit and then finished up strong. I swagged my time at 20:51 which was probably generous. I have been substituting the hard Sunday runs with long slow runs with a friend who I'm training for Boston with. I'm also replacing the midweek runs with skiing, so plenty of distance, but not much high intensity. Tonight was the reckoning to see how much speed I've held despite the limited running. Answer is I've lost a tiny bit, but not enough to worry. Didn't want to blow up this time, so I started ~6:58 for the first mile which felt pretty good. Dropped it a little for the next 1/2 mile, then again at ~mile 2. HR was really high, but legs still weren't feeling too bad. Ended up dropping it down to 6:30 for ~the last .5 miles with a solid 6:00 sprint for the last 200ish yards. Got 'er done in 21:07, so a :16 increase from last go, but a much more honest effort. I definitely left some seconds on the track, though, so now I'm fired up to do a 5K next Saturday. Last year I set my PB in that race at 20:46, so I think I could very well break that one. We'll see.
Great job everyone. You all are freakin' FAST! @Carrie - congrats on crackin' 20:00...I hope to make that someday too!
You guys going sub 18 are awesome, I think the last time I went sub 18 was 1982. At 47 I'm happy with the effort. I have a HS track near the house so upper 30's in Columbus Oh., today so good day to give it a go. 21:07. Times are still going down and the focus has been about the bike all last year so I'll take it.
Lap 1 6:49
2 6:48
3 6:48
4 :21
Vdot is 47 and it was a solid effort. Considering it's Feb and Lp is late July, very happy with the effort. Work is working!
Had a great run test today. Time of 22:53, which falls flat in comparison to all the speedy people in this group, but it is a nice drop from 24:37 at the beginning of the OS. Moved my vDot from 39 to 42, very pleased with the results.
Bad news is that I have already meet my Head/Tails buy Patrick beers/coffee goal. Just kidding, I'll happily pay up and hope I can hit the bike goal shortly to do the same for Rich.
Swapped wed/thurs workouts and tested today. Felt like a turd the whole time due to sickness setting in. Like many have mentioned, It is really tough getting this workout done solo. I went to my local gym to run the track and came out to roughly 20:05 for 5.27km after swerving around people and taking turns wide!!! I figure this is roughly equivalent to a 19:05 for 5km. Long story short a 1point bump to 53 from 52. Glad it's a rest day tomorrow!!!
Cryin' the blues here, re: 5K VDOT test...Tried to test Wednesday, at my school's track. It was tough, as I was feeling slower, it was a bit warm, and my intestines were threatening to embarass me to no end, if I didn't stop running! At 26:20, I stopped with 5 laps to go. I was NOT happy to have to do that, but it was um, a good thing I did... So, I went to the Y yesterday, to try doing my 5K on the treadmill. I felt pretty good, so thought I'd have a good run. In my interval training, I've been consistently doing 10 min. miles (which for me is good) and even a couple of sub 10 min. miles. So, I'm trudging away on the dreadmill, and getting hotter and hotter, and sweating my wazoo off!!! I had a water bottle with me, and was drinking. However, I could NOT go lower than 11 min. friggin' miles!!!!! I mean, I did kick it up a couple of times, and even had to lower it a couple of times, to catch my breath and not pass out. It was hotter than HELL in there. But I did EXACTLY, to the SECOND, the SAME @#$%&! time as I did for my November VDOT!!!! 33:35, same VDOT of 27! WTF???? I could NOT have planned that if I tried! I am bummed out, depressed, p.o.'d, and downright ANGRY!!!! HELP!!!! WHY is this the same???? I have really worked hard, had good training results, and rested when I needed to. Why, why, why???
Cryin' the blues here, re: 5K VDOT test...Tried to test Wednesday, at my school's track. It was tough, as I was feeling slower, it was a bit warm, and my intestines were threatening to embarass me to no end, if I didn't stop running! At 26:20, I stopped with 5 laps to go. I was NOT happy to have to do that, but it was um, a good thing I did... So, I went to the Y yesterday, to try doing my 5K on the treadmill. I felt pretty good, so thought I'd have a good run. In my interval training, I've been consistently doing 10 min. miles (which for me is good) and even a couple of sub 10 min. miles. So, I'm trudging away on the dreadmill, and getting hotter and hotter, and sweating my wazoo off!!! I had a water bottle with me, and was drinking. However, I could NOT go lower than 11 min. friggin' miles!!!!! I mean, I did kick it up a couple of times, and even had to lower it a couple of times, to catch my breath and not pass out. It was hotter than HELL in there. But I did EXACTLY, to the SECOND, the SAME @#$%&! time as I did for my November VDOT!!!! 33:35, same VDOT of 27! WTF???? I could NOT have planned that if I tried! I am bummed out, depressed, p.o.'d, and downright ANGRY!!!! HELP!!!! WHY is this the same???? I have really worked hard, had good training results, and rested when I needed to. Why, why, why???
Barbara,
Hang in there. Remember what's important, your health, family, loved ones, etc. Can you imagine telling someone at work you're pissed because your vdot test sucked? Don't worry about it.
First question is, what was the course/venue you used for your first test? Outside, track, race, treadmill? You've got to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. If it is the same venue, then just chalk it up to bad test. You tried on Wed, then again today. That's a lot of retesting which takes both a mental and physical toll.
I'm willing to bet you're fitter than you were in Nov. Did you vdot test validate it? No, not this time anyway. Just keep training. If you feel your paces are too easy, see what training at the next level of vdot would feel like.
My second test in Dec yielded a 13 second slower time than Nov. I was in the midst of being fatigued in every way. I kept my vdot as is and just continued training. I haven't tested this week due to a bit of soreness in my hip. If I don't, I'll just keep training at my current paces and when I feel my hip is good to go, I might test, but then again, I might wait until the OS ends. Either way I'll get my training in.
It's ok to be pissed. Just don't let it ruin your day.
I think we could go back over last year's OS posts that describe almost to the day the same surges and setbacks and ups and downs that are being expressed now. Barbara, running is a huge struggle for me. My vdot has not budged, but I am a better runner, fitter, and when spring springs, and my legs return I know all the work will manifest itself in better splits and a fitness that will allow me to run long without breaking down. It happens if you stay with it. It doesn't happen if you don't. I've done both.
Cryin' the blues here, re: 5K VDOT test...Tried to test Wednesday, at my school's track. It was tough, as I was feeling slower, it was a bit warm, and my intestines were threatening to embarass me to no end, if I didn't stop running! At 26:20, I stopped with 5 laps to go. I was NOT happy to have to do that, but it was um, a good thing I did... So, I went to the Y yesterday, to try doing my 5K on the treadmill. I felt pretty good, so thought I'd have a good run. In my interval training, I've been consistently doing 10 min. miles (which for me is good) and even a couple of sub 10 min. miles. So, I'm trudging away on the dreadmill, and getting hotter and hotter, and sweating my wazoo off!!! I had a water bottle with me, and was drinking. However, I could NOT go lower than 11 min. friggin' miles!!!!! I mean, I did kick it up a couple of times, and even had to lower it a couple of times, to catch my breath and not pass out. It was hotter than HELL in there. But I did EXACTLY, to the SECOND, the SAME @#$%&! time as I did for my November VDOT!!!! 33:35, same VDOT of 27! WTF???? I could NOT have planned that if I tried! I am bummed out, depressed, p.o.'d, and downright ANGRY!!!! HELP!!!! WHY is this the same???? I have really worked hard, had good training results, and rested when I needed to. Why, why, why???
Why? Cause sometimes it just works out that way. Sucks, but it happens. As usual the Halligan has good insight. My thoughts go something like this. Just because you did not run faster in the test does not mean that you are not making great progress toward the goal of being a faster runner. Make sense? I guess it doesn't really does it. Point is keep at it and the gains will come.
Thanks for the support guys! And Dave, thanks for especially, your first line! Made me laugh! Really, I KNOW I am fitter, and faster. I just had to vent. Yes, I was pissed for awhile, but I got over it. Stuff happens, and this too shall pass! I have my health, my job, my family, my fitness, and belong to this great team! Can''t ask for much more!! (Except a better VDOT next time! LOL!) Thanks guys! Have a great weekend, and awesome bike/run workouts this weekend. You all are smashing it!
Comments
Not old, advanced! Sorry, William, my bad.
Thanks, Dave
Team, super impressive posts today all around! Today I did my test but do not have anything near as exciting to share. It is raining and 45 degrees here with 15 mph winds. I had the option of the track in this weather or the treadmill. I went to the track. I probably went out too fast with mile 1 at 6:18, then faded to 6:28 and 6:37 ending up with a 50 VDOT, same as last test. I did not feel quite right today for whatever reason and this test was all I had just to hit the same old number.
I do, however, get a lot of satisfaction out of reading each of your crushing reports and improvements! Look out Thursday, training with new zones!
SS
The smell of burning sneaker treads in the air can only mean that this group is ON FIRE! Wow. Amazing results by everyone. And remember, it's still only February, folks.
Snow and ice in NoVa this morning so I decided to skip the test and hit the treadmill in the basement for a 3x1 workout Got half way through the first mile and was feeling decent so I decided to do a sneak attack 5K test. Glad I did because I beat my old time by 20 seconds. Finished with 18:53 and a 6:04 average pace so VDOT jumps from 52 to 53. First time below 19:00 so I'm pretty pumped about that. The last few tests were on the track so I'm not sure if it's a real apples-to-apples comparison but I'll take it. Rough splits were:
Incline was 1% and temp was 72. I'd like to avoid future tests on the t-mill if at all possible.
Sub 18s w/ over 30 secs improvement! This is really "Getting it Done!" Congrats Mike!
Mike
So these are the times you generate after having a drill bit pulled out of your leg and coming off a weekend of the stomach flu?? Like I said before, there's no way you're human! Sincerely, Trent, congratulations showing us all that there really are no excuses and keeping that bar high for us!!
Great job Shaughn and Chris W.
Fighting the elements or dealing with the dreadmill, it's all good mental six pack building.
Dave
Everyone is just absolutely crushing the tests!! I think if we held a 5K in this area and the Nov. OS group was there it would be an almost cleanup of the podiums all the way around.
@Chris G. ... Do you really think I would have let you beat me by 2 seconds if we were racing together? I think not. It would have been cool to see the knock down drag out sprint at the end.
@Mike G. ... You have really been throwing it down lately. Awesome to see your progress. 30sec. at these paces is freaking huge. Keep it up and giving us something to strive after.
@Matt A. .... Please don't make us all look too bad when you decide to test. And yes you have to do it alone, in the cold, and dark, and some snowy streets to make it count.
Chris--That's awesome, though it would have been fun to race on the track for all the glory. I'm hoping to find a way to do a tactical race sometime--start off with 10 people whose estimated times are all within a minute or so for a 5k, and race the old fashioned way instead of just against the clock.
I had a treadmill breakthrough this morning. I've never been able to run on a treadmill. I think it's a mental thing--the short deck screws us my stride, or I'm afraid of falling off the back or something. Whatever the reason, I cannot seem to run faster than 8:00/miles inside for any distance. Because I didn't test today, I did 2 x 1 mile at z4. I got in my 45 minutes total and then spent another 45 shoveling snow. But I ran those two miles at 6:48, which makes me think that I'll be able to learn to run fast inside. WIth the way this winter is going, I'll need to master that.
I'm moving the schedule around a bit because of a ski trip. Tomorrow is as scheduled, Friday will be an extra bike, ski Sat, Sun, and Mon, and resume the normal schedule on Tuesday. I may try to run once on the treadmill on Sunday or Monday, though I'm not sure how going from sea level to 9,600 feet will affect me. I have no problems skiing without acclimitazation, but I've never tried to run. (The highest ski run where I'm going starts at 13,000.)
@Trent - The only reason I was running that fast [or even testing at all for that matter] was due to your taunting and assurance that you would be running 17:45 or was it 17:30? Regardless, think of it like this from now on...no matter how fast you are running or how good or bad you are feeling about it at the time, just picture me always beating you by 2 seconds :-) That should help...
I think it would be fun to all race head to head. To keep it fair we can each stab Matt once just prior to the start or make him kick 50 yds in a pool, his choice
I think two drill bits would do less damage the a kick set with fins
I'm serriously impressed with all of you guys ... anything under 18 is so impressive to run solo. Thanks for motivating me to step it up and get back to running hard.
I am totally impressed also. You guys are crushing it. All the sub-18's are amazing!
Not much too cheer about for me. I ran a 20:27 this morning, down a whopping 2 seconds from the beginning of the OS.
But, I haven't been focusing on speed work, so again, I'll take what I got and be content with it.
Mike
Great job everyone. You all are freakin' FAST! @Carrie - congrats on crackin' 20:00...I hope to make that someday too!
Had my best 5k time to date. Here are the details....
Same treadmill / 1.0 incline. I may hit a 50 Vdot yet!
Entire workout (165 bpm):
Duration: 21:30
Work: n/a
rTSS: 38.5 (1.004)
NGP: 6:53 (234.1 m/min)
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: n/a
Pa:HR: 5.06%
Distance: 3.109 mi
Elevation Gain: 114 ft
Elevation Loss: 118 ft
Grade: -0.0 % (-5 ft)
Min Max Avg
Heart Rate: 104 175 165 bpm
Speed: 0 9.2 8.7 mph
Pace 6:31 0:00 6:55 min/mi
Altitude: 320 340 331 ft
Joe, that must be one MONSTER treadmill!! You went from an altitude of 320 to 340!?!?!
Just kidding - great run! Do you have a windtunnel size fan blowing on you during something like this?!?
Mike
You guys going sub 18 are awesome, I think the last time I went sub 18 was 1982. At 47 I'm happy with the effort. I have a HS track near the house so upper 30's in Columbus Oh., today so good day to give it a go. 21:07. Times are still going down and the focus has been about the bike all last year so I'll take it.
Lap 1 6:49
2 6:48
3 6:48
4 :21
Vdot is 47 and it was a solid effort. Considering it's Feb and Lp is late July, very happy with the effort. Work is working!
Had a great run test today. Time of 22:53, which falls flat in comparison to all the speedy people in this group, but it is a nice drop from 24:37 at the beginning of the OS. Moved my vDot from 39 to 42, very pleased with the results.
Bad news is that I have already meet my Head/Tails buy Patrick beers/coffee goal. Just kidding, I'll happily pay up and hope I can hit the bike goal shortly to do the same for Rich.
Swapped wed/thurs workouts and tested today. Felt like a turd the whole time due to sickness setting in. Like many have mentioned, It is really tough getting this workout done solo. I went to my local gym to run the track and came out to roughly 20:05 for 5.27km after swerving around people and taking turns wide!!! I figure this is roughly equivalent to a 19:05 for 5km. Long story short a 1point bump to 53 from 52. Glad it's a rest day tomorrow!!!
Cryin' the blues here, re: 5K VDOT test...Tried to test Wednesday, at my school's track. It was tough, as I was feeling slower, it was a bit warm, and my intestines were threatening to embarass me to no end, if I didn't stop running! At 26:20, I stopped with 5 laps to go. I was NOT happy to have to do that, but it was um, a good thing I did...
So, I went to the Y yesterday, to try doing my 5K on the treadmill. I felt pretty good, so thought I'd have a good run. In my interval training, I've been consistently doing 10 min. miles (which for me is good) and even a couple of sub 10 min. miles. So, I'm trudging away on the dreadmill, and getting hotter and hotter, and sweating my wazoo off!!! I had a water bottle with me, and was drinking. However, I could NOT go lower than 11 min. friggin' miles!!!!! I mean, I did kick it up a couple of times, and even had to lower it a couple of times, to catch my breath and not pass out. It was hotter than HELL in there. But I did EXACTLY, to the SECOND, the SAME @#$%&! time as I did for my November VDOT!!!! 33:35, same VDOT of 27! WTF???? I could NOT have planned that if I tried! I am bummed out, depressed, p.o.'d, and downright ANGRY!!!! HELP!!!! WHY is this the same???? I have really worked hard, had good training results, and rested when I needed to. Why, why, why??? 
Barbara,
Hang in there. Remember what's important, your health, family, loved ones, etc. Can you imagine telling someone at work you're pissed because your vdot test sucked? Don't worry about it.
First question is, what was the course/venue you used for your first test? Outside, track, race, treadmill? You've got to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. If it is the same venue, then just chalk it up to bad test. You tried on Wed, then again today. That's a lot of retesting which takes both a mental and physical toll.
I'm willing to bet you're fitter than you were in Nov. Did you vdot test validate it? No, not this time anyway. Just keep training. If you feel your paces are too easy, see what training at the next level of vdot would feel like.
My second test in Dec yielded a 13 second slower time than Nov. I was in the midst of being fatigued in every way. I kept my vdot as is and just continued training. I haven't tested this week due to a bit of soreness in my hip. If I don't, I'll just keep training at my current paces and when I feel my hip is good to go, I might test, but then again, I might wait until the OS ends. Either way I'll get my training in.
It's ok to be pissed. Just don't let it ruin your day.
Dave
Barbara, running is a huge struggle for me. My vdot has not budged, but I am a better runner, fitter, and when spring springs, and my legs return I know all the work will manifest itself in better splits and a fitness that will allow me to run long without breaking down. It happens if you stay with it. It doesn't happen if you don't. I've done both.
Keep the faith. Good luck.
Why? Cause sometimes it just works out that way. Sucks, but it happens. As usual the Halligan has good insight. My thoughts go something like this. Just because you did not run faster in the test does not mean that you are not making great progress toward the goal of being a faster runner. Make sense? I guess it doesn't really does it. Point is keep at it and the gains will come.