Home OutSeason (January ‘10)

Jan OS Week 8 Training

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  • This group continues to impress me.  The Vdot results are awesome and very motivating.  Good job everyone on getting those solo 5Ks done - I know how tough they are.

    I did my 2 x 20's this morning followed by 30' of shoveling.  I was pooped after that.  But I recovered well and got  in a great 45' run (well, really 30' of running and 15' of walking) over lunch.  My run legs are feeling awesome - just trying to stay disciplined for a couple more weeks to not push the pace at all and to keep the frequency and duration of the runs in check to allow my body to adapt.

    2 x 20' on the trainer went as 294 / 294, then did 5' at .836.  Legs were a little flat which surprised me after not having ridden since Monday's FTP test - I guess it took more out of me than I thought.  The plan for Saturday's ride is to hit the FTP intervals (2 x 15') above 300 - join me @Dan?

    During the treadmill run I was really focused on mechanics, especially playing around with cadence (targetting upper 80s/low 90s) and propelling myself forward to try to limit the vertical osciallation I've seen lately.  Nailed it!

    Tomorrow looks like easy swim with drills immediately followed by a deep water run with intervals. Hopefully, that will be the last DWR for me - I'm getting a little sick of them!  We'll see how many seniors I have on my tail tomorrow...

    Happy training!

  • Post some pictures

    who me??? yep, I have two cameras...
    me be safe?? yep you know it. a mom of five can't live too dangerously!

    okay so I had a small window of opportunity and haven't ridden since last Friday.. so after the Walmart trek, went up to trail to ride and guess what?? I rode 5 miles!! I felt cold out there and had no energy.. and I told myself "give it 30''" and I did... or shy of that and bagged it. I just felt cold all day.... and I don't wanna be negative and say I am tired of the cold... but yeah I am!!! 41 degrees and overcast and slight wind... so instead I bought a Sbux and came home.. I think the packing and etc have worn me down!!! that and the loads of laundry trying to get clean clothes for son to pack up!! but just a few tweaks and I am there.... talk at ya later!! as my kids are home from the bus!!
  • Thanks Bill and Dan, good work to you as well.
    Looks like we won't be having very much fun the next couple of weeks as we start to try and hold these new numbers......
    Jim, that seems like a long day. I'm not going to get that run in today, just don't have time to get both.
  • Posted By Jim Hansen on 25 Feb 2010 01:56 PM

    Tomorrow looks like easy swim with drills immediately followed by a deep water run with intervals. Hopefully, that will be the last DWR for me - I'm getting a little sick of them!  We'll see how many seniors I have on my tail tomorrow...

    Happy training!

    Color me jealous!!!  I can't wait until I can say those same words! Enjoy that final DWR tomorrow and give the seniors a special wave as you leave!!



     

  • I found out this week that you can't hide when you have the data.

    This was my firt time ever doing an FTP test. After killing myself for almost an hour, I found my ftp to be 151 indoors. Sort of disappointing - I was expecting more around 200 based on what the power numbers said on the exercise bike at the club. But I have a feeling that my new powertap is a little more accurate. Hopefully, it'll be higher outside when I finally get to ride outside. The power numbers jumped around a lot more than I thought - I guess I need to ride steadier (I thought I was, but it sure wasn't the case). My LTHR actually went up from my test the week of 1/11, but who knows what that means. I have a data question - on my first 20 min interval, norm power and avg power are the same (151) - how can this be if it jumped around so much - going from 28 to 213. The VI was 1 - I guess you'd expect that if NP and avg power are the same, but it doesn't make sense with all of the jumping around the power did during the interval. If I figure out the first question, then I'll knpw the answer to the second.

    The run side was even less encouraging. Went from a vdot of 28 to 26. Interestingly, my average HR during the test increased. So if I had been training by HR, I would believe I'd made some pretty good progress. I did do the test at around 1:00 PM this time as opposed to 9:00 AM, and it was a different course (but both are flat). Maybe that had something to do with it. I may try this again next week as well, but doing testing two weeks in a row is probably not the best idea.

    I guess I'm wondering if I should be moving to VDOT training since my running hasn't improved much and my FTP clearly has room for improvement.
  • sorry - I got part of that wrong.  I think we're supposed to move to VO2 Max training next week, and I'm not sure that I should.  Wouldn't I be better off with the long intervals?

  • Bob,
    get a few more tests under your belt before u try to analyze to much.
    Don't compare numbers from two different devices. With more data you'll see
    if the numbers are consistent or not. For now, I recommend sticking to training plan
    and if your 0.9 efforts seem easy, then u likely had a faulty ft.

    For run, vdot is a guide. 26 or 28 is about the same. Again, with more attention to pace,
    you'll start to produce more consistent tests.

    My 2 cents.

    Once you get to consistent tests, then heart rate and all other
    stuff becomes more interpretable.

    Oh and try to test at same times, eat same foods, warm up same way, etc on test days.

    Over and out.

    Great job by all this week.

    Gh
  • @Bob- What Gilberto said. Stick to the plan for now and use the FTP you got on this test. You'll be fine moving to the VO2 stuff next week - don't sweat it!

    Oh- and yes, the PM's are "jumpy" even when you are on a trainer- but the VI is going to be pretty dang close to if not exactly 1.0 when you are on a trainer. When you finally get outside you'll see how hills and such can REALLY make it fluxuate!

    This is why some folks like to look at AVG Watts on the screen instead of Actual Watts. However, that can become a very dangerous path- especially when you are racing at IM or HIM distance. I recommend you leave it on Actual Watts and just get used to the way it bounces around a bit. You'll get a better understanding and feel for those little bumps the more you ride and it will become sorta "normal" to you.
  • Oh- one more thing Bob- if you could copy/past your data from the FTP test in this thread, that might also help you analyze your test results a little bit more.
  • You All (or for my friends in the South "All y'all") are doing amazing work. I could fill a page with congrats, but just a few:

    @everyone - WOW!!

    @Tom - Roundman sounds like a great "event". Hard work that is fun is where to get the mojo!

    @Chad - Yep, those new numbers are going to call for a whole new type of accountability and commiseration next week - ain't it great!

    @Bob - Giberto is on the mark - don't overthink the numbers. Work works!



    I've been laying low this week to rest my irritated ankle. Did a hard trainer ride on Sunday, so swam Monday, and then work just got nuts. I did the FTP test tonight, using all your stories as motivation. I was amazed at how well I was able to focus, using Jim (and others) method of focusing on pushing harder the last 5 of each 20. In my version, though, I keep it on the same interval, and just push to exceed my average from the first 15 consistently for the last 5. In both cases, I pushed my average up 3 - 5 watts from the 15' split average to the 20' average.



    Test 1 Jan 17

    Weight: 193

    LTHR: 177

    FTP: 264

    W/Kg: 3.0



    Test 2 Feb 24

    Weight: 183

    LTHR: 174

    FTP: 289

    W/Kg: 3.5



    I am stoked (and scared for next week's workouts!)

    For the data geeks:

    All Out 20' Number One:

    Duration: 20:05

    Work: 352 kJ

    TSS: 41.1 (intensity factor 1.109)

    Norm/Avg Power: 293 / 292

    VI: 1

    Avg HR: 171 bpm

    Avg Cadence: 79 rpm

    2' Reset:

    Duration: 2:01

    Work: 22 kJ

    TSS: 1.6 (intensity factor 0.697)

    Avg Power: 185

    Avg HR: 168 bpm

    Avg Cadence: 89 rpm

    All Out 20' Number Two:

    Duration: 20:00

    Work: 349 kJ

    TSS: 40.6 (intensity factor 1.104)

    Norm/Avg Power: 291 / 291

    VI: 1

    Avg HR: 177 bpm

    AVg Cadence: 72 rpm

    FTP test (consolidated range 20-2-20):

    Duration: 42:05

    Work: 723 kJ

    TSS: 84 (intensity factor 1.094)

    Norm/Avg Power: 289 / 286

    VI: 1.01

    Avg HR: 174 bpm

    Avg Cadence: 76 rpm

    Entire workout (264 watts):

    Duration: 55:06

    Work: 871 kJ

    TSS: 99.8 (intensity factor 1.044)

    Norm/Avg Power: 276 / 264

    VI: 1.04

    Avg HR: 167 bpm

    Avg Cadence: 78 rpm

  • @ Bob - As others have said stick to the plan.  You will find the vo2max a refresing change.  If nothing else your body will have different stimuli to adapt to.  I believe Coach P mentioned that everyone react differently some get more of a boost from the FTP stuff others from the vo2max dependent on many factor. 

    You will still be doing some FTP stuff on Saturdays but you get the added bonus of Z5 or 110% in sets of 3-5' perhaps longer depening on you level (beg, int, or advanced) 

    As for my workout today is was much better. It's amazing what a day off will do. 

    2X15 @ 221 (1.00) & 224(1.01) with 12' @ 85%.  I had planned to do the brick run today but I have to be to work by 7:30 for a conference call.  The 20' run did not happen after work I still might try to get this brink in on Saturday but that could be dangerous and I know I should just let it go. 

    Gordon

  • Mike B: or for my friends in the South "All y'all = just "y'all" is colloquially correct! other great Southern sayings "what kind of Coke do you want?" (cokes are sodas), "sweet tea or unsweet?" all year round.
  • Okay... That was WORK!  The shuffle is on for me.  Took yesterday off and moved to today.  Going to bike tomorrow and take Sunday off and then off to Roundman.  I'll pick up on Saturday with the scheduled bike workout.  Depending on how I feel on Thursday I might do a bike workout that night too:

     

    Stage 1 – March 1: Loop of Coin

    Stage 2 – March 2: Loop of Coin (backwards)

    Stage 3 – March 3: Loop of Pain

    Stage 4 – March 4: Loop of Pain (backwards)

    @Dan if you're available any of these days you should come down and join me.  It starts at 11:40 every day.  Great group of guys and a lot of good runners.

    Today's 2x20's were BRUTAL!  This new FTP was rough.  I'm actually surprised I held on to what I did.  What kind of sadist sets you up for 2x20 right after you bust your butt working to get there!  I was actually surprised that my 2nd 20' was as consistent as it was.  I felt like my chips were cashed in after the first one and I was holding on with everything I had for #2...  Work Works!  I couldn't imagine doing this 2 months ago.  Check out the entire workout section.  That was my OLD FTP.

     

    FTP=244

    20' #1:

        Duration:      20:05

        Work:          292 kJ

        TSS:           39.2 (intensity factor .994)

        Norm Power:    242

        VI:            1

        Pw:HR:          6.03%

        Pa:HR:          5.44%

        Distance:      6.777 mi

            Min    Max    Avg

        Power:           168    292    242     watts

        Heart Rate:      143    187    178     bpm

        Cadence:         73    80    78     rpm

        Speed:           16.8    21    20.2     mph

        Pace             2:51    3:34    2:58     min/mi

        Crank Torque:    187    317    264     lb-in







    20' #2:

        Duration:      20:08

        Work:          292 kJ

        TSS:           39.1 (intensity factor .99)

        Norm Power:    242

        VI:            1

        Pw:HR:          5.71%

        Pa:HR:          3.83%

        Distance:      6.741 mi

            Min    Max    Avg

        Power:           147    295    242     watts

        Heart Rate:      145    190    183     bpm

        Cadence:         64    107    77     rpm

        Speed:           18.3    21    20.1     mph

        Pace             2:51    3:17    2:59     min/mi

        Crank Torque:    168    335    265     lb-in





    Entire workout (208 watts):

        Duration:      59:41 (1:00:11)

        Work:          744 kJ

        TSS:           99.7 (intensity factor .919)

        Norm Power:    224

        VI:            1.08

        Pw:HR:          10.69%

        Pa:HR:          7.99%

        Distance:      18.257 mi

            Min    Max    Avg

        Power:           0    312    208     watts

        Heart Rate:      85    190    168     bpm

        Cadence:         34    107    77     rpm

        Speed:           2.2    21    18.6     mph

        Pace             2:51    26:49    3:14     min/mi

        Crank Torque:    0    379    227     lb-in

     

  • Posted By Marianne Park on 26 Feb 2010 06:10 AM

    Mike B: or for my friends in the South "All y'all = just "y'all" is colloquially correct! other great Southern sayings "what kind of Coke do you want?" (cokes are sodas), "sweet tea or unsweet?" all year round.

    Must be some regional differences. When I was in NC out of college, i learned "y'all" = singular, and "all y'all" = plural!



     

  • @Tom - Nice work! That bump is exactly what I'm dreading!
  • @Miike - Holy smokes! Those are some studly numbers. I didn't realize you were down 10 lbs - that's awesome man. The FTP gain and body comp improvement better be a source of confidence and motivation to keep up the good work.

    @Dan - Looks like we need to add Mike to our friendly 300 or bust competition!

    @ Tom - I had the same thoughts when I saw another 2 x 20' this week. Way to put together a nice consistent workout.

    That V02max stuff is going to feel so good next week!!
  • I did my bike on thursday with my new number's . Not too bad but I had really tired legs after my 5k of the previous day. It's amazing how it zapps your legs to run all out. I had to do it early too.

    I was a bit under on my second interval ( 2nd 15min..5watts under FTP)...Run went well later. It was a tough one to squeaze timewise but I made it to the Y and felt prettry good for it.. Rest day today is needed I think. My kids have a snow day ( yeah...Marianne) and i'm planning to not even go out so I will rest those legs. I'm looking forward to the VO2max workouts next week !

    @Everybody..Rest up for next week !

    @ Marianne. Have a great trip !!!

    Nathalie

     New Range #2:

     Duration:   14:58

     Work:       170 kJ

     rTSS:        162.9 (2.47)

     NGP: 3:39 (441.7 m/min)

     VI:         1

     Pw:HR:       n/a

     Pa:HR:       n/a

     Distance:   4.109 mi

      Min Max Avg

     Power:        136 246 189  watts

     Cadence:      52 73 59  rpm

     Speed:        3:19 4:04 3:39  min/mi

     Hub Torque:   56 93 76  lb-in

     Crank Torque: 181 341 270  lb-in

    New Range #1:

     Duration:   15:16

     Work:       163 kJ

     rTSS:        155.9 (2.392)

     NGP: 3:46 (427.8 m/min)

     VI:         1

     Pw:HR:       n/a

     Pa:HR:       n/a

     Distance:   4.064 mi

      Min Max Avg

     Power:        104 230 178  watts

     Cadence:      48 114 64  rpm

     Speed:        3:24 4:29 3:45  min/mi

     Hub Torque:   51 91 74  lb-in

     Crank Torque: 120 335 235  lb-in

    Entire workout (158 watts):

     Duration:   1:00:17

     Work:       571 kJ

     rTSS:        570.3 (2.268)

     NGP: 3:58 (405.6 m/min)

     VI:         1.06

     Pw:HR:       n/a

     Pa:HR:       n/a

     Distance:   15.073 mi

      Min Max Avg

     Power:        0 246 158  watts

     Cadence:      30 143 61  rpm

     Speed:        3:19 12:52 3:59  min/mi

     Hub Torque:   0 94 68  lb-in

     Crank Torque: 0 343 222  lb-in

  • SUPER job this week everyone!! I'll be knocking out my 5k tonight, your numbers will be going through my head and I'm sure I'll be faster because of it image
  • Workout of the Day: ran the dog for one hour to wear him out and then bathed him to wear me out!! lol..... now on to the grocery store to stock up for family! m
  • -MP
    Grab me some milk while you're there...skim please
  • @Mike nice work
    @Jim, I accept the challenge, I might not quite be back up there yet but I'll happily fry myself trying to get there.
    I took the morning off did the 2x20 since I worked 7a-7pm yesterday
    @Tom I might have to check that out, wife is having surgery twice next week, pretty minor stuff so I have no idea what my schedule will entail. I heard over the scanner a runner hurt his ankle @ 6th and Watson Powell myself and one of your old coworkers/principal track team members (Jay Rhoten) joked it was you.

    Here is the numbers still some adjustment to the new position but I'm a work in progress

    Selection:
    Duration: 20:17
    Work: 353 kJ
    TSS: 33.2 (intensity factor 0.991)
    Norm Power: 290
    VI: 1
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 10.439 mi
    Min Max Avg
    Power: 114 436 290 watts
    Cadence: 70 141 91 rpm
    Speed: 23.5 35.1 30.8 mph
    Pace 1:43 2:33 1:57 min/mi
    Crank Torque: 112 409 272 lb-in

    Second 20:
    Duration: 20:11
    Work: 351 kJ
    TSS: 32.9 (intensity factor 0.99)
    Norm Power: 290
    VI: 1
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 10.381 mi
    Min Max Avg
    Power: 114 436 290 watts
    Cadence: 70 141 90 rpm
    Speed: 23.5 35 30.8 mph
    Pace 1:43 2:33 1:57 min/mi
    Crank Torque: 112 409 272 lb-in

    First 20:
    Duration: 20:12
    Work: 354 kJ
    TSS: 33.6 (intensity factor 0.998)
    Norm Power: 293
    VI: 1
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 10.683 mi
    Min Max Avg
    Power: 181 379 292 watts
    Cadence: 71 159 93 rpm
    Speed: 26 33.7 31.7 mph
    Pace 1:47 2:18 1:54 min/mi
    Crank Torque: 119 348 266 lb-in

    2x20 4 minutes rest:
    Duration: 44:19 (45:38)
    Work: 732 kJ
    TSS: 70 (intensity factor 0.973)
    Norm Power: 285
    VI: 1.04
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 22.219 mi
    Min Max Avg
    Power: 0 436 275 watts
    Cadence: 35 159 92 rpm
    Speed: 3.7 35.1 30.3 mph
    Pace 1:43 16:22 1:59 min/mi
    Crank Torque: 0 524 255 lb-in
  • Haven't posted for a while. I was able to do the bike test on Tuesday. Increased my inside FTP from 166 to 193. Felt good. I'm not going to have time for the run test, but I did a half marathon a few weeks ago that told me I am still about where I was when I started the OS.



    Over the next 3 weeks (and the past 2 weeks) I will be upping my weekend runs/rides so that I am ready for my B race, IM 70.3 oceanside, in 4 weeks. Yeah... my first triathlon ever. Can't wait.



     

  • yes the walmart trek has worn me out and yes on skim milk!! (2)... I could take a nap. congrats on the increased FTP and for four weeks from now doing a tri!! way fun. Good job Dan and tricky for next week. and wouldn't you know it, the nicest weather day of the whole week and I am inside grocery shopping!!! aargh. oh well. who needs blue skies and no wind!!! going old skool and packing walkie talkies for my trip and battery operated alarm.. no computer or cell phone so using a notebook for journalling!!! anyways I am gonna sign off. son has a soccer game and I gotta unload this food and also take my bike and gear out of car so maybe family might wanna use it!! yep one hour of hard running and the dog is still chilled! when I come back I will video him as I believe he is using some of those "running cues" listed in General forum!!
  • Thursday was my last power clinic workout, 3 x 6'(4') @ 105-110% of FTP, nailed it at 221-224 NP for each. Then this morning, did week 10 weekend run workout, 3 x 1 mile (1 mile) @ TP, on treadmill, descending from 6:58 down to 6:31 min/mile (8.5-9.2 mph) during each mile. I'm fairly exhausted after the power clinic along with the steady diet of TP >> IP runs. I'll be working today and tonight, then heading down to LA for a funeral, returning Sunday evening with 60 hours of "rest" in the bank, and will do the power clinic FTP test then. (Warm up, 5' all out, 10 minutes easy recovery, then 20' all out. FTP is 95% of the 20 minute NP) I can't wait, as I've been promised my FTP will rise by at least 5% .

  • Al- At the end of PC, we were actually advised to rest. You have a lot on your plate. We actually did the 5'/20' test at the end of PC. That is what I will be using going forward. Just a thought.
    Looks like folks have had some fantastic bumps in FTP. Nice work. Keep it fun!
  • check in with youguyz on my return! don't wreck, or otherwise hurt your training!
  •  Wow... you guys are awesome.  I've already said it, but reading more results has got me really pumped up (especially since I had a harder time with my Z4 2x12s this morning than I did with the 2x15s Tues)!   I can't wait to take the next test in 2 weeks... without a power meter, not sure how much improvement I'll be able to tell.

    I'm a few more weeks behind in the run, and Nathalie, you're totally inspiring!!!  My first run test was crummy... but definitely the best I could do.

     

     

  • I just spoke w/ my parents who are vacationing in Kona they are under a tsunami warning. They evacuated from their condo but are staying w/ my aunt and uncle who are staying out of the evacuation zone. Kona is sort of protected via geography but they expect some wrap around effect. I'm glad they are w/ my uncle (a pilot) who is so prepared he has 4 propane gauges on his gas grill (really)
  • @Dan: Wow - That's scary. Thank goodness they have relatives to be with.
    @Marriane: Have a great trip.
    Went out for a long run today. after a week of rest for the ankle. Not much change in how the ankle felt (still slightly tender to he touch, not better or worse during running.) stretching, ice and ibuprofen after...
    The good news is the run was great. Planned on 8 miles at ~ 8 min pace. Felt so good, I decided to shoot for negative splits ... on each mile. Mile one 7:54; mile eight 6:58, the others spread in between.
    Plan to go back to regular running plan, and work on managment of the ankle: "brace" to keep calf extended at night to address slight plantar fasciaitis, ipuprofen and ice for tendonitis. Different friends suggested massage, and a podiatrist. Thoughts / suggestions?
    Oh yeah, I'll be doing my vDot test next week!
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