I did LP & LOU in the same year and my garmin had them pretty close on total elevation (my gearing was standard front and 12-27 rear). I live in a part of FL where there are zero hills on my normal rides and aside from one short trip to ride in NC I did a lot of trainer rides with plenty of resistance to build my "climbing legs."
I wish I'd have raced LP having had EN knowledge so I hadn't ended up as one of the people Gordon mentions suffering up the end of the 2nd lap
Just adding to this thread, Here's a pic of Kienle with the Scott Cadence plus from St George last week. He had the 2nd fastest bike split.. Now to get my head that low!
Keep in mind . . . the origin of this discussion was the little things I can do to save watts/time. If Sebi were to race LP with us this year in typical (not 95F) conditions, guess what he would wear? His Scott TT helmet, of course. Scott told him the Cadence was 5 watts slower than the TT. Yeesh! But Sebi only cares about Kona, so he tunneled it himself and found he was only losing 2~w. Why? Because he simply has the best position in the world, so his helmet isn't as big a factor. Kona podium guys envy his position; you and I have no chance to match it. Why can he sacrifice 2 w? Because he rides Kona at 300w, .8 IF and probably generates more kj's per hour of heat than we do over the entire bike ride. I suspect heat is so much more important to him than us. In Year 3 of EN's 3-year plan, we're shown how to steal/buy watts and minutes. If you're knocking on the door like many of us are in this LP group and need those extra 5-20 watts that a helmet, wheels, tires, latex tubes, shoe covers, shaved arms and legs and Jedi-wax-treated chains can provide, go for it. I promise you, the other 10-20 folks in your AG who would gladly commit a felony to take your Kona spot are.
Work travel is always a challenge for maintaining the schedule...this week I had to turn T-Thursday into run only and got in my key long run as a single session...Two solid swims on Monday & Friday....Today we are shooting for 4/1 bike run...Tomorrow looks like a rainout...and deciding on Swim/Run indoors or Bike indoors....Great commentary on Helmets and Wheel Set up....I've always run 60/Disc front/back...and plan on that for IMLP...anxious to ride course later this month ...the descriptions are always scary....anyone care to compare IMLOU to IMWI to IMLP....Lou is hillier than you think....
@Joseph Lombardi I did IMLP & IM LOU in 2015 and my garmin had the elevation gain for LP at 5866 & LOU at 5699. I know LOU bike course has changed slightly since then. LOU up/down seemed constant whereas LP has Keene descent and some flatter spots.
As a FL flatlander with questionable descending skill I was nervous about LP but drove then rode the course a few days before & was fine with it on race day. I think I rode 404/808 front/rear & will probably do the same this year since, if I shed the 7-8 lbs I am hoping to, I want to minimize any issues if crosswinds show up on race day.
For my training report...I got todays run in right before the first storm in a month came through here, so it was 4 hours on the trainer after that (with all but 4' in the aero bars). My neck, back & legs aren't happy but hopefully a little stronger than they were.
Today was a washout - lots of rain here in the northeast. I decided to ad lib a bit and do my long ride tomorrow when the rain stops. Therefore, this morning I ran a quick 5.8 mile hilly, out-and-back, and then I got on the Kickr and rode for 1:55.
The rain is supposed to stop by 5 am on Sunday, so I have laid out my clothes and nutrition already and hope to be on the road by dawn - 5:30-ish. I need to get out on my road-bike because I have a big 75-mile fondo-style ride next week that will require a road-bike, which I haven't ridden since February.
My chain catcher arrived today. Hoping to get down to the garage and figure out how to install it on the tri-bike.
Hope everyone had a safe and productive day of training.
Helmets- my point incase anyone missed it ... NONE of it matters unless you test it yourself.. Period... that is why safety , comfort, come first then AERO but you will never know unless you test... Again I tested the fastest with the RUDY when all the buzz about the fastest helmet was the P09... I tested so slow with that helmet they cut my run short since it wasnt even worth finishing.... I loved the P09, I wanted it so badly but it did not work for me... I have not tested my AEROHEAD but I like it and I'm good with that... Another comment on AERO comps, while I have seen the differences in gear at a Velodrome, I find the real world to be different, having accumulated many 100 mile rides on the same routes in NH and in AZ I have found very little time difference when switching wheels, helmets, even clothes to make much difference to me... Of courese way to many variables and every second counts but its simply amazing to me the number of rides I have within minutes of eachother with different gear...The only thing I have seen without question is tires/tubes are huge!
IMLP bike- comps to other IM - @JL anyone who has done the OLD Mooseman 1/2 has nothing to worry about cause that was much tougher than IMLP (throw Quassy REV3 1/2 into that group as well).... But it defintely is one of the hardest IM course I have done, my files show 6500' gain, tough miles are 0-8 , 33-63, and 88-110... some climbs are sustained vs. IMLOU or IMMT which are more rolling short punchy hills... I have not done IMWI so no comps to that one... This is part of the reason I plan to SOLO camp on the course to relearn every crack/crevice, up/down, right/left , windy sections the course has to offer.... I would recommend all that are serious about racing go to the EN camp :-) , solo ride the course, and at a bare minimum drive it once, and practice a few descents on Keene ala Scott Dinhofer.....
@tim cronk ...one I agree with you on the gear/helmet....its the fastest helmet on you the way you ride.....but I'm not on the pointy end...so I've been very happy with a Bell Javelin short tail aero helmet with visor...could you a bit more airflow...but otherswise very comfortable and seems to work fine for me...but without testing...hard to say with facts.
Re: IMLou vi IMLP...thats good to hear I think...I think I'm better on sustained climbs & descents...with sustained climbes I think its easier to meter out effort...get in synch, settle in..and climb...So I will be doing the course SOLO camp style as well June 5-9...wish I could get their earlier ( I miss EN IMLP camp by a week or so..) but right now thats the deal my girlfriend will be running Mt. Whiteface race so will be up there...I will pay attention to 0-8 and especiallty 33-63...
Things got off the rails for Friday morning so no 3rd swim for me. Still contemplating it for tomorrow AM before the bike workout as that's optional.
Today 20' run TRP then on to the 3 hour 45' bike just over the TSS at 198 and .73 IF. 2X20 pushed from .75 on the first to .8 on the final one. Finished up with an hour @.73 again starting at .72 and finishing at .74 (10' increments).
Increased the time in my aerobars to 80%. I was ready to get off at the end for sure.
Did my long ride today. Climbed almost 4.5k feet over 56 miles. Rode to the steepest hill in my area - Keeler Rd - which has some pitches of ~25% grade. Felt winded, as always, but came home to realize that I had set a PR by 1 second (have ridden it 23 times since 2012). Pleasant surprise - thank you EN OS. Climbed the other steepest hills I could find on my way up to Keeler.
I am glad I took the road bike out for a test ride. My lights needed re-charged, and my new chain needed some grease. The weather was lousy when I finally got out of the house - 45 degrees with water everywhere. Wore winter gloves and a winter shell - in the middle of May! Oh, and it felt like being on vacation riding on a road bike - I could sit back and ride no-hands while I ate. It was much more relaxing compared with being in the aero-position for 3.5 hours.
Next Saturday, I am riding Battenkill, which has lots of steep hills and dirt roads. Today was a good test. However, the early weather report is predicting temperatures in the 80s...
Now, to go wash my bike and clean the drivetrain.
Happy mother's day to all the mother's out there. Hope everyone had a productive and safe training day.
ABP ride in the books. 3X20' .8-.83 and 1x25 @.85 120' @79. Figured I needed the saddle time more than the pool but may still make a quick stop at the pool if it works out.
I road 50ish miles with a bunch of roadies today. Never invite a triathlete just returning from BRC to ride with unless you are ready to watch their backside for 2:30 hrs
A nice weekend; 75 miles yesterday and 4 mile brick; backed that up today with just about 2hrs at Z3...missed a swim this week...so maybe add one next week...feelin' in a good place.
@tim cronk - on the helmet conversation... here's a question, for how much of the LP course, does the helmet matter? I'd bet if 1/4 of the course is at TT speed, it's a lot. Be curious of a good testing protocol, care to elaborate? I like what you say about repetitive courses. I have a 112 mile climbing monster that takes me typically 6:18-6:24. The 6:24 my slowest ever was last year 2 weeks before LP, my best IM ever, go figure... I also think that comfort is worth a few watts as well. that said, I'm gonna get my hands on an aerohead and test...
weekend WKOs.. the rain here reacked havoc with my weekend. Sat - did 3 hrs on the trainer with the TT bike. 6x25' @ IM pace 4000 yards swim 4.3 mile run in heavy rain (it could rain on race day!) Sun - 2x25' on trainer in the aerobars for full intervals 9 mile run
looking forward to tomorrow morning in the pool at 0500
@Scott- of course there are ways to test yourself but they are way over my head... I will say this the results will be inconclusive since there are just way too many variables... YES every single second counts to me and it should for you but my whole point was a person cant just buy a helmet cause it tested the fastest unless they tested it themselves in a wind tunnel or veledrome and even then the real world results maybe different since they more than likely wont hold the tested position for an IM type ride... Yes every second count but we are kinda splitting hair here, consider the FLO guys say the 90 front is faster than the 60 front , but they also say that if you sit up more than a couple times cause your uncomfortable with the winds and handling of the 90 you can negate all the savings... So they are talking 20-30 seconds on a 100 mile ride... I have no idea what time difference helmets are... Ride the one you like and stay in your aero bars until you can test for real!
Tooth pulled, bone graft , another round of antibiotics (this is the 3rd round in the last 2 months or way too much IMO but I had issues) , will get the implant after race season this coming December , the doc only made me take 48hrs off training, so got in a bit more than expected this week. On my way to Al's house for some cold/wet climbing !
Congratulations Peter on qualifying for Choo, I'll be there as well! Raced Syracuse in 2015 and 16 and know exactly what you mean about that run. I read somewhere that they took out the big climb on the run course this year which I'm sure made it a tad more bearable, but with the heat I bet it was still killer. Congratulations again and if I can offer some advice, view the race as your big tri day and stay the course with the Ironman plan. Last year I did Syracuse on Sunday and by Thursday I was running a 20miler. Keep pressing on as we only have 3 weeks of real training left! Great job again!!!
Comments
I did LP & LOU in the same year and my garmin had them pretty close on total elevation (my gearing was standard front and 12-27 rear). I live in a part of FL where there are zero hills on my normal rides and aside from one short trip to ride in NC I did a lot of trainer rides with plenty of resistance to build my "climbing legs."
I wish I'd have raced LP having had EN knowledge so I hadn't ended up as one of the people Gordon mentions suffering up the end of the 2nd lap
As a FL flatlander with questionable descending skill I was nervous about LP but drove then rode the course a few days before & was fine with it on race day. I think I rode 404/808 front/rear & will probably do the same this year since, if I shed the 7-8 lbs I am hoping to, I want to minimize any issues if crosswinds show up on race day.
For my training report...I got todays run in right before the first storm in a month came through here, so it was 4 hours on the trainer after that (with all but 4' in the aero bars). My neck, back & legs aren't happy but hopefully a little stronger than they were.
The rain is supposed to stop by 5 am on Sunday, so I have laid out my clothes and nutrition already and hope to be on the road by dawn - 5:30-ish. I need to get out on my road-bike because I have a big 75-mile fondo-style ride next week that will require a road-bike, which I haven't ridden since February.
My chain catcher arrived today. Hoping to get down to the garage and figure out how to install it on the tri-bike.
Hope everyone had a safe and productive day of training.
IMLP bike- comps to other IM - @JL anyone who has done the OLD Mooseman 1/2 has nothing to worry about cause that was much tougher than IMLP (throw Quassy REV3 1/2 into that group as well).... But it defintely is one of the hardest IM course I have done, my files show 6500' gain, tough miles are 0-8 , 33-63, and 88-110... some climbs are sustained vs. IMLOU or IMMT which are more rolling short punchy hills... I have not done IMWI so no comps to that one... This is part of the reason I plan to SOLO camp on the course to relearn every crack/crevice, up/down, right/left , windy sections the course has to offer.... I would recommend all that are serious about racing go to the EN camp :-) , solo ride the course, and at a bare minimum drive it once, and practice a few descents on Keene ala Scott Dinhofer.....
Re: IMLou vi IMLP...thats good to hear I think...I think I'm better on sustained climbs & descents...with sustained climbes I think its easier to meter out effort...get in synch, settle in..and climb...So I will be doing the course SOLO camp style as well June 5-9...wish I could get their earlier ( I miss EN IMLP camp by a week or so..) but right now thats the deal my girlfriend will be running Mt. Whiteface race so will be up there...I will pay attention to 0-8 and especiallty 33-63...
Today 20' run TRP then on to the 3 hour 45' bike just over the TSS at 198 and .73 IF. 2X20 pushed from .75 on the first to .8 on the final one. Finished up with an hour @.73 again starting at .72 and finishing at .74 (10' increments).
Increased the time in my aerobars to 80%. I was ready to get off at the end for sure.
I am glad I took the road bike out for a test ride. My lights needed re-charged, and my new chain needed some grease. The weather was lousy when I finally got out of the house - 45 degrees with water everywhere. Wore winter gloves and a winter shell - in the middle of May! Oh, and it felt like being on vacation riding on a road bike - I could sit back and ride no-hands while I ate. It was much more relaxing compared with being in the aero-position for 3.5 hours.
Next Saturday, I am riding Battenkill, which has lots of steep hills and dirt roads. Today was a good test. However, the early weather report is predicting temperatures in the 80s...
Now, to go wash my bike and clean the drivetrain.
Happy mother's day to all the mother's out there. Hope everyone had a productive and safe training day.
Be curious of a good testing protocol, care to elaborate?
I like what you say about repetitive courses. I have a 112 mile climbing monster that takes me typically 6:18-6:24. The 6:24 my slowest ever was last year 2 weeks before LP, my best IM ever, go figure... I also think that comfort is worth a few watts as well.
that said, I'm gonna get my hands on an aerohead and test...
weekend WKOs..
the rain here reacked havoc with my weekend.
Sat - did 3 hrs on the trainer with the TT bike. 6x25' @ IM pace
4000 yards swim
4.3 mile run in heavy rain (it could rain on race day!)
Sun - 2x25' on trainer in the aerobars for full intervals
9 mile run
looking forward to tomorrow morning in the pool at 0500
Tooth pulled, bone graft , another round of antibiotics (this is the 3rd round in the last 2 months or way too much IMO but I had issues) , will get the implant after race season this coming December , the doc only made me take 48hrs off training, so got in a bit more than expected this week. On my way to Al's house for some cold/wet climbing !