All I want for the Holidays is speed!
Hopefully this question will spark a more general discussion....
Since Santa can't make me faster directly, I'm wondering if the team has any advice about what will give me the best returns for his money.
I'm 43yo male triathlete, top half/top third looking to get into top quartile. A-race next year is IMMT. My bike rig is a 2014 Parlee TTiR frame, Ultegra components, a 2011 (!) Zipp 404 rear wheel w/ powertap, a 2018 Zipp 404 Firecrest front wheel. I have an old school CycleOps fluid trainer.
Lets say the elves can do ~$1,250 worth of magic for me this year. What do you guys think think will give me the most bang?
My two thoughts are either 1) A new rear wheel, maybe an 808 or similar given the hilly course in MT (it'll need to have a power meter hub b/c my frame actually doesn't allow for a pedal mount) or 2) A smart trainer, given that I spend a lot of time training indoors.
Any other thoughts?
Maybe there is room for a discussion around best value in terms of expected seconds per dollar spent at various amounts ($100, $500...etc.) and ability levels.
Thanks!
Comments
@Alexander E Evis It's been awhile since I looked at the aero value of things but as I recall the aero helmet was one of the best investments that could be made. You can come under your value for spending most likely.
You also have 404's and the 808 would be and upgrade aerodynamically it's probably not a big as you are hoping. I'll try to find some comparison data but this article compares 5 wheel sets and the 404/808 combo is only 70 seconds faster over 112 miles.
If you have limitations in other areas, swim or run a vasa or stryd may provide training or other metrics to make you faster.
@Alexander E Evis My suggestions: buy a good aero helmet $3-$400 (like Giro Aerohead); an aero disc wheel cover for your rear wheel (it essentially turns it into a disc wheel) $120 (wheelbuilder.com) and if you do not already have one, a power meter that can be used on your trainer and outside (maybe a Stages PM?). Also, get professional bike fit if you haven't had one in the last couple years. Not the 20 min fitting you get when buying a bike. This bike fit should take 2 hours and cost around $200-$300. I'd also make sure the person doing the bike fit is listed on Slow Twitch's Bike Fitter's Database.
And if you're wondering why a smart trainer isn't listed, it would blow your budget and it does not directly make you faster. A PM and standard trainer will give you consistent power data inside and outside.
In addition to aero helmet, rear wheel disc cover ( don't forget EN discount), and single side crank or pedal PM, I'd add Nike Vaporfly Next% shoes. In my own experience and as shown by the NYTimes Deep Dive into Big Data, they really do provide a 4%+ time reduction.
All that said, there is no substitute for a training program which is progressive (builds on itself from week-to-week), focused, adhered to day in day out over multiple years, and includes significant hard work at high intensity. That, and learning how to pace properly during a race.
So @Al Truscott youre saying I should ask for a Team EN membership! I have that already, and nobody can do the work but me!
Thanks everybody...I already have the helmet & power meter.
I’ll skip the smart trainer and will will get another bike fit at the end of the OS....and maybe pick up a disc cover from wheelbuilder and a stryd.
Thanks!
Bang for your buck, ranked:
-fitting and testing /dialing your position on track w ERO ($800, I think?
-disk cover (80 bucks or so? Note wheelbuilder has a Black Friday sale)
-tight skin suit ( $150-200)
-a GOOD aero helmet (some test better than others)
-fast tires and latex tubes ($100-200)
-fast bikeshoes, or low profile shoes w velotoze cover ($5-300)
but if you’re ta lking cost/benefit, I would shovel every cent into the first on the list before proceeding further.
That’s a really nice looking bike, btw.
Thanks @Dave Tallo !
Do you have any weight you can drop? It doesn't cost anything to race at <10% body fat.
@Peter Greagg , the answer is "yes" and I'm proud to say I'm on my way! I'm down from 79kg at the start line of my last race to 74.5kg today. Got a few bumps ahead of me over the holidays but the target is 72.5 by the startline at IMMT. That's what I was in college I don't think I can go any lower and be healthy at 43.
The Q really was: Given everything else, if you do have some dough to spend, whats the most efficient way to spend it? What I've gotten is:
Also post a pic of your rig if you would really like to get into the weeds ... you might get comments on switching your bottle placement, adding a crank cover, using TriRig brakes, etc based on what you put up.
Thanks @Alexander E Evis !
1) awesome that IMMT 2020 is A race for you. Me too! @Andrew Lustigman is racing it too!
2) when considering new wheels, what width are your tires? If they are older, like my wheels, they are probably 23. It sounds like getting wheels that use wider tires with lower pressure is a performance enhancer. I don’t know how much, but maybe someone else can add to that thought.
3) Definitley look for new race shoes. Vaporfly are easy to find now. But keep in mind: the weight is not what makes Vaporfly so special. They have a carbon plate and the foam provides industry leading (I’m guessing) energy return. Even if those don’t work for you, Nike zoom fly have same carbon plate and Nike Pegasus turbo have the same special foam. They both are probably better than your standard racing shoe. And now hoka has a shoe with a carbon plate that is likely a good option.
@Dave Tallo i haven’t heard anyone recommend a cycling shoe cover in the context of triathlon. Is it worth the extra transition time (I’m guessing it isn’t much, but would be a bit more to put on)? I also like to run through transitions barefoot & put shoes on during bike. I’ve had trouble with brand new PowerTap cleats breaking once (gravel road race, not triathlon) and later causing a crash. I don’t want to run on them if I can avoid it. They are plastic.
also, what makes a cycling shoe noticeably faster? I got with carbon sole for stiffness and weight savings (sidi T4 https://www.trisports.com/product/sidi-t4-air-carbon-composite-triathlon-shoe?sg=1). But are there other important variables?
thanks everyone for contributions!
Wow you guys are so helpful, thanks! I will definitely ask Santa for a pair of Vaporfly shoes.
Wrt my bike, the tire width is 25mm. Here are some pics of the rig as set up for 70.3 AC (and wrapped up for my trainer, I sweat like a horse!). My plan is to add a second cage behind my seat for IMMT.
@Alexander E Evis If you are considering bike fit. Look into TTBikefit.com. He is in RI. I have been fit with him and really like my position. You ride his fit bike with a power meter and video feedback. He can optimize your position for the most power and comfort. http://ttbikefit.com/ and http://vertexfitsystems.com
@Larry Peters a generalization, but I would say that the difference between worst and best shoes might be around 10 watts. What stands out to me from the articles below:
-Velcro straps are bad
-smaller/lower profile shoe is better
-boa on the sides are bad
-smooth is good, more smooth is better
of course, some have found difference between riders when testing, but I’m inclined to get onboard with the “smaller and covered in better” thinking. I tried laced Giro empires for a few years, but they were just too narrow, and eventually have settled on a pair on well worn Nike Poggio, where I cut off the straps and stitching, and just cut holes for laces. To get these mostly covered and smooth, I use a velotoze toe cover, plus a soccer “wrap” (see link) to cover the laces and arrive at a very small shoes with a very small surface, that I can slip into while pedaling out of t1.
As an alternative, the Orca RS1 (reportedly 8watts savings) seems to go on pretty easily on the fly, with no penalty to get in/out.
Of course, the cost benefit of the time to put it on is key, so I think of it as best be vs worst case might add up to a few minutes of time in reduced drag in an IM, and if they only take 30s of extra time in transition, it’s still good. I think the “overshoes” article gets at that point.
Also, add fast/aero pedals and cleats to fast shoes (see the ERO article) and you can see found time in there. Not cumulative, but a possible savings from a worst to a best system might be a few minutes in an IM.
Again, results are individual, and some have reported no savings at all when testing, but here are some pieces that have got my attention and influenced my own gear choices over the years. See:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Aero_Shoetout_P7077459/?search_string=velovetta#p7077459
http://www.ero-sports.com/2018/index.php/speedplay-zero-aero
http://www.thomasgerlach.com/2016/05/fastest-ironman-bike-shoes-aerodynamics.ht
https://en-gb.facebook.com/AeroCoach/photos/we-recently-did-some-shoeovershoe-testing-with-an-aerocoach-team-rider-even-when/1442308795803755/
https://www.tri247.com/triathlon-gear/bike-gear/overshoes-ironman-racing
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Orca_Aero_Shoe_Covers_P5534959/ (claim 8 watts)
https://www.amazon.ca/Unique-Soccer-Spots-Cover-Black/dp/B006UITUJ8/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=Soccer+shoes+wraps&qid=1574049676&sr=8-7
@Alexander E Evis - what base bars are those?
Woah, awesome. Thanks so much @Dave Tallo ! I can’t wait to dive into that, especially with cyber Monday deals coming up.
@Alexander E Evis i like the sweat damage prevention measures. I’m going to have to up my game there. Thanks for the inspiration!
@Larry Peters, thanks! I replace the saran warp once a week or so - it's helped a ton with rust in the cockpit and the front brakes.
@Dave Tallo thanks for all the info on shoes! The base bar is a Profile Design T2 Wing. I went for comfort and control because my first two 70.3s (Pays d'Aix & Canada) had a lot of climbing (IMMT does too but I'm faster now) and also because I'm a below average bike handler. Do you think they're hurting me?
@Alexander E Evis @Larry Peters a few ENers are signed up for IMMT 2020. Lmk if anyone is interested in an informal camp up north summer 2020.
@Andrew Lustigman you know I am down for IMMT 2020 camp! Are you talking about the one Colin organizes?
Wait! @Andrew Lustigman you cracked it! Under normal circumstances, the probability of spousal approval for an escapade like that would be more or less zero (for me anyway). So I’ll ask Santa for a hall pass! A weekend on the course before the race HAS to be worth more than 8w from shoes or 3min from a wheel.
@Alexander E Evis @Larry Peters I'm going to set up a separate thread under 140.6 to see what interest there is. Maybe we can convince @Coach Patrick to get involved?
@Larry Peters - I think colin is now only doing LP as he bought a condo there last summer. @Andrew Lustigman aren't you doing the 70.3 there as well?
I am likely NOT doing the MT 70.3 (as of now).
With Colin out of the picture, looks like a great opportunity for @Coach Patrick and @Emily Brinkley to hold a camp in MT.
The new thread is here https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/26248/immt-2020-training-camp/p1?new=1