Week 14 test deconstruction thread

William Jenks · January 31, 2011 3:57PM

So now we have our Week 14 test results...

I am starting this thread to have a place to discuss what they mean and/or how we feel about them. I hope some of our experienced hands can add some words of wisdom and perspective.

morpheus · January 31, 2011 4:24PM

I like the term...autopsy.

William Jenks · January 31, 2011 4:26PM

...and I'll start.

My bike test was up 5 W. I started the NOS at as high an FTP as I've ever had (coming up on 2 years of having my PM shortly). It's clear enough, though, that I'm not in the camp of guys who are seeing the huge gains...much more in that "average" group. Depending on the benchmark from which you start, I'm up a little more or a little less than 10% (because I seemed to put on a few W during my October pre-OS).

I had never done any serious amount of VO2 stuff, so I was hoping for some magic to happen. Not so lucky. But I still acknowledge that my gain takes me to a new best.

That said, I would really like to see a bit more in these last 6 weeks. If you knew me, you'd know I'll give it the best shot I can. I went into this hoping to get to 265 W. But right now another 10 W seems like an awful lot given how hard we worked for the last 6 weeks and putting on just 5. Either way, though, there's no doubt a lot of progress has been made already.

Wm

gilliatt · January 31, 2011 5:18PM

I had the same gain as William 5 watts. Not a ton but it has been 6 weeks, I had a great test meaning I don't think I could have eeked another watt out and I was absolutely trashed after I was done.
My two take aways,
1) I am still gaining watts
2) I continue to hit my numbers, I don't miss many workouts, and I am not flaming out.
I can live with that.

Keith Wick · January 31, 2011 6:01PM

I would say it's not unusual to see smaller bumps after the vo2 max sequence as we haven't been practicing the FTP work as much. I look at it as a means that allows me more room to make a higher FTP in the upcoming weeks. Remember, there has been little time spent at FTP over the past 6 weeks (the Sat. ride 1x per week), so in a small sense we're out of practice with the FTP work.

If you use the weight lifting parallel, its like getting really good at doing reps of 10-12 and seeing an increase, but then you start to plateau. In order to break that plateau you do a block of 4-6 reps at higher weight. When you return to the sets of 10-12, you'll feel a little stronger, but lack some of the stamina required for the 10-12 reps that you previously had for that level of work. Either way, your strength increased and will continue to increase once you regain the feel you used to have at 10-12 reps.

That's just how I think about it, but I'm sure others will chime in as well.

arzaske · January 31, 2011 6:13PM

@ William,

Just curious, but how do you think your recovery has been? How did you feel going into your FTP test, rested and ready to rock it or more of a rallying somewhat tired/fatigued body to get it done?

As a complete N of 1, I was feeling fairly burnt 2 week-ends ago... so, I dialed it back for a week. Still didn't feel great after that as evidenced by last Tuesday as I couldn't get any Z3 work done on bike and run was a bust. So, ended up taking 3 full days off. Did nothing. Tested on Saturday and today feeling really fresh.

Obviously everyone is different... I know RnP and many folks here preach taking appropriate recovery when we need it and I totally get the wisdom of the approach as the 30 year-olds don't need the recovery time us older folks do. Did I feel guilty taking those three days off? Sure did. But, I feel pretty good about it now

Jon Bergmann · January 31, 2011 7:57PM

@Art: I was wondering about age and rest. I didn't improve over my last test: 264 on test 2 and 264 this morning. I have been faithfuly been doing these workouts and the VO2 has been harder than I ever imagined. I have followed the plan with maybe 2 missed workouts and have wondered as a 46 yr old if I needed more rest. I was tempted to take off this past Sat, but I followed the plan (+ the weather outside was so good I really wanted to ride outside for a change) and I pushed it.

Anyways: I am hoping that the tired factor played an important role in my flat test this morning. I certainly left it all in the pain cave. I was dizzy after the ride and wasn't worth much at work today. So maybe next time I will take a bit more time resting and preparing for the test.

I am thinking of taking Wed off since I will be speaking at a conference and don't see it happening on Wed and then skipping the Thu workout and doing the run test then. Thoughts anybody??"

Ben · January 31, 2011 8:32PM

William, I wouldn't put a ton of weight on one test. Lots of factors that can influence numbers. Hopefully you're seeing improvments in your workouts. Last week I felt great in my Tue 6x2.5' workout. Most intervals were 125%-130%. Thursday I had the exact same workout and barely got through it at 120%. I was toasted.

Just sayin' were not capable of doing the same thing every single day. I try to look for trends over several days or weeks to see improvement.

William Jenks · January 31, 2011 9:33PM

@Art- That's a great question. I think it was last Saturday that I finally had a not-too-great workout from fatigue. I more or less made the numbers but it was quite ugly. Took 3 days (Sun, Mon [rest], and Tues) of just doing aerobic quality stuff (~85% FTP and ~MP running). That really felt like it helped a lot. I think the number from today is pretty realistic.

@John... A lot of us guys are in that age range. Me, you , Sulli, Art... (Matt S is mid 50s). Can't think of any one of us who didn't feel the need for a little extra rest in that VO2 cycle if you now count yourself among us. :-)

I'm pretty confident that if you had rested like I did, you'd have had a bump in the test as well. Maybe not like that first one! But at least on the scale of those of us in the 5-10 W range. Maybe now's a time to sneak that in....take it easy for a couple days after the run test, for example.

@Ben I hear you. We got six weeks. Let's hit it hard.

Bob Arsenault · February 1, 2011 5:53AM

I am in the same boat as many of you, I'm 47 and proper recovery is a little harder to come by. It has been spoken in several posts that less gains are seen in this week 14 test because of the intense VO2 work and all of the accumulative fatigue.

I had a 3 watt gain ( 254 to 257) I was hoping to hit 260 on this test. My typical test is to push the 1st 20' to hard and then to hold on for dear life the 2nd 20'. I promised myself I would not do that this time, I went to far the other way and went a little to easy the 1st 20', but it felt really good to finish so strong.

Overall I'm happy to see an improvement. Although it was only 3 watts, I felt a lot stronger overall, and recovered well following the test. So I'm feeling pretty good about my fitness.

For the final test I will take an xtra recovery day, I know what I'll have to hit for that 1st 20' to reach my end of OS goal of 265.

You and me William Same age, same weight, same final test goal. Let's get it done !!!!!

Coach Patrick · February 1, 2011 7:58AM

I bumped up from 325 to 335, so only 10 watts (3%) gain after 6 weeks of killer work...however:
* this is a lifetime best for me. Hard to get grumpy as I went into new territory.
* this came after a weekend of travel & a 5k effort, so fatigue was there.

In general, the VO2 stuff is hard because:
* new focus, new energy system.
* you are mentally tougher after the VO2 block, but typically more tired (14 weeks of training vs 8)
* we wrote these plans to make you stronger and fitter, not to help you have the best possible tests. :0

Seriously think @ that last point there. I could have written a weeklong taper, etc., to help you out, but it wouldn't accomplish the macro goal you hired me for.

Now if you are going backwards, that's another story...but in my book if you are equal or slightly up on week 8, you are making serious headway!

~P

Jon Bergmann · February 1, 2011 8:07AM

@Coach Patrick: that makes me feel better. I have felt the fatigue piling up. When I come out of each session in the pain cave I tell my wife, "that was hard." Now when I emerge she says--"It was hard?"

Though my test flat-lined, I can tell I am getting stronger. When I rode outside for the first time in a while this past Sat I did a hill I used to do. I crushed it. And you are right: I don't ultimately care about my 14 week test. The real test is IMKS and IMWI. Thanks for all you do to make us better.

ejbeach01 · February 1, 2011 8:19AM

I did a 30min TT as my test. I ended up with the same FTP.

I could be disappointed by that, but my week 8 bike test followed a trip to mexico with very little biking. As a result my bike legs were really well rested and I had a fantastic bike test bumping 16 watts that day. Since that test I've never even come close to hitting that during an FTP set. The fatigue always had me at 95% at my best.

So I had a really good idea that my bike test wasn't going to show huge gains. My legs were too shredded by the Vo2 stuff. But I do react very well to the FTP stuff, so I am looking for some really big gains as I do the FTP stuff.

My run test is interesting. The reality of that situation is that I have never been as fast as I thought I was. I have used a Sprint Tri as my baseline for the entire OS...It was a 20:33. The problem...I looked yesterday and the course was almost .1 short. So in reality I ran a 21:15ish.

My week 1 test was a failed test as I thought I could break 20min and wasn't even close. All my 5k races have been slow. And during week 8 I ran on an indoor track...but it isn't a standard track...so I mismeasured. My time was a 20:18 but in reality I should have gone about 20s longer. So really it was a 20:40. That alone is a respectable gain from 21:15ish to 20:40.

So yesterday I measured carefully and actually ran a 20:18 again. Looking at my files this was measured accurately. Again, a very respectable gain. From 20:40 to 20:18 in the 6 weeks of Vo2 stuff. had I ran the same distance as my last test I would have hit a 20:02.

Sure I wish I was gaining more...but I really think my gains will come with the FTP work. Only one way to find out! I can't forget that I dropped the front end of my bike by around 11cm too. (Yes, CM) That will certainly have an impact when I get outside.

Joe Hallatschek · February 1, 2011 8:34AM

This is a great thread. For the run, I tested almost exactly what I did in the #1 test, which is only slightly slower than my #2 test. The weather certainly made a difference, which explains the lack of improvement. However, my bike test was exactly the same as my #2 test. So, I'm on somewhat of a plateau despite all the hardwork.

Yet, I'm knocking out these run/bike workouts and seem to be recovering and absorbing the work. I'm feeling stronger on the bike & run so it's just a matter of time before my new fitness manifests itself. One thing for sure, I'll be doing the bike with power next year. I can tell I'm way fitter at my LTHR now than my last test.

Thanks Patrick for the insight, I feel better and am ready to buckle in for the last 6 weeks!

afrost · February 1, 2011 8:41AM

Let me echo Jon's point about the proof being when you get outside. I was able to ride outside over the Christmas break (because I left Southwestern Ontario!) and even at the 8 or 9 week mark I was pleasantly surprised by my riding. I rode with my husband (who is a 5:00ish IM bike guy) and he was shocked at how slow he didn't have to go with me and how well I was climbing! Ha! I am really looking forward to getting outside again after the 20 weeks to see what all this work has produced.

Coach Patrick · February 2, 2011 10:47AM

Posted By Ann Frost on 01 Feb 2011 08:41 AM

Let me echo Jon's point about the proof being when you get outside. I was able to ride outside over the Christmas break (because I left Southwestern Ontario!) and even at the 8 or 9 week mark I was pleasantly surprised by my riding. I rode with my husband (who is a 5:00ish IM bike guy) and he was shocked at how slow he didn't have to go with me and how well I was climbing! Ha! I am really looking forward to getting outside again after the 20 weeks to see what all this work has produced.

Nice work ANN! Did you tell him by week 20 that he'll be following you?

William Jenks · February 2, 2011 3:42PM

My run test was a full success.

19:15 is a PR by 18 sec, and an improvement of 25 sec over the week 8 test.

I think I learned a couple of things in the VO2 section... First, I learned that I can faster than I realized if i put my mind to it. I knwo that sounds stupid, but I haven't done anything more than something like 6- or 8 x half mile intervals in marathon or HIM training before...no real VO2 work ever outside of that.

The second thing I learned is that I can't (yet) string those fast miles together yet. In that last set, I ran one mile under 6:00, but couldn't run a second one that fast, even with rest/recovery.

It looks like the rest of the OS plan doesn't have any more VO2 running... I kind of wonder if FOR ME there would be benefit in doing a bit more, but that's getting off topic in this thread.

Anyway, again, no miracles, but very, very solid improvement.

LynneJ · February 3, 2011 1:35AM

So the bike test was a bust as I held exactly steady at the same as test 2 even though I felt I had a number of good workouts between the two. I think fatigue was the factor as I had been off island at a retreat over the weekend and was just exhausted when I came home from work and it was time to test. Looking back I only executed about 2/3 of the work between the two tests so I try to do better over the next six weeks. I'm still ahead of last year on execution as I only did 26 bike workouts during the 20 week OS and I'm already past that.

The real reason to post to this thread is my run test today. I went from 8:21/mi for first test to over 9 for the second with a race at 8:44/mi two weeks later so I had ignored the one as a bad test and kept my zones closer to first test. So today I ran 8:17/mi pace for three miles and I'm not sure whether to believe it. It seemed a little hot and faster than I was expecting by about :13/mi. Was the Garmin acting up? That's a fairly big VDOT jump, actually the highest since joining EN and that's not at a great weight as I'm 6 pounds above where I started OS. So do I enter it in the data tool and go with it or do I wait until I race the Valentine's biathlon on the 13th and see if I confirm it?

Lynne

Dave Campbell · February 3, 2011 12:46PM

@ Lynne, If your first test was at 8:21 and 14 weeks later your at 8:17, I'd say go with it and ignore the two data points in the middle. Its hard to beleive you would not have picked up speed after 14 weeks. I'm with you, I'm up about 5 lbs since Oct, but still faster. And bounce the test numbers off what you've been doing in your recent intervals. If you've seen low 8's recently, then beleive it. Good work!

Chris M. · February 6, 2011 1:25PM

I have not missed a single interval, session, workout, or rest day since day 1 of this OS. When it says 95-100%, I always go 100%, but not over. When it says 80-85%, I always go 85% but not over. My power is up 6% on the bike, and my 5K time has improved by 11 seconds. The VO2 stuff felt much harder and more effective to me, and I will continue to follow the workouts to the letter.

I think I have more room to improve on the bike. On the run, during the tests I am going so hard my form starts to go off and I feel like I could trip and fall on my face at any moment. I have come close to vomiting on two of the tests so I don't know how much more I will improve. Patrick's prediction of a 56 vDot seems a long way off for me. I am so impressed with his run times, especially at 190 pounds (I am 180). I do think that at a 5K race when I can wear less than full winter regalia I will see more of an improvement, especially in a more rested state.

In any case, I have never enjoyed indoor training as much as I have this winter. This level of focus and detail really makes things more interesting. I plan to keep on pushing hard and to have an awesome 2011 season!

Week 14 test deconstruction thread

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