Final November Outseason Run Test

[Deleted User] · March 13, 2011 3:58PM

I did a half marathon today, which I'm going to use as my final run test for the November outseason. Race went great! Very happy with the results. Final time of 1:51:28, with an average pace of 8:30 min/mile.

VDot at start of outseason: 38

Final VDot: 40

My actual VDot score did not improve all that much, but I know I am a much, much stronger runner that I was on November 1. There is no way I could come close to holding 8:30 over a half marathon then - and would have had a hard time believing I would by mid-March. Also, my 5K tests were never good: Died on the last mile of the first test (but finished); blew up and did not even finish the second test; and went way to slow for the third test. I just could not get the 5K pacing right.

But today felt great - followed the marathon pacing guidance from the wiki and it was perfect. Felt great most of the race, started getting tough around mile 10 or 11, and gave it all I had at the end. I'm confident this is an accurate test for me, and like the fact it was done over a longer distance rather than a 5K.

I do have a couple of questions though. It was quite a hilly course, whereas all my earlier tests were done on an absolutely flat course. WKO, when taking the hills into account, gives me an normal graded pace of 8:18 min/mile, which would result in a VDot of 41. I wonder if I should consider using that? The training paces look reasonable at that Vdot. Also, would my LTHR be the average HR over the entire half-marathon? I'll paste these somehwere where R&P are more likely to see them.

Anyway, I'm very happy with today's race, and where the EN outseason has taken my running. Will have an easy couple of days, then the bike test at the end of the week, when I expect the power gains from Nov. 1 will be much greater than the VDot increase.

Good luck with the final testing everyone!

Steve West · March 13, 2011 4:20PM

@ Jim - congrats on the finish time. very nice indeed.

Not sure about your vDot question - need a WSM to chime in. But, long tests like a half mary or full mary will defiinitly give you a lower vDot (there are a few that this is not true for - but they exceptions). Case in point: Just before NOS I ran MDI (26.2) only 45" off a PR finish and calculated at a vDot of 44. Two weeks later in the 5K test I pulled a 46 on a track. In my mind, both were done with the same fitness so I feel thay are good examples of non-linear scaling of vDot values. By the way, MDI is a tough, hilly marathon if your not familier.

Good luck on the bike test. I will be along soon but had to rest back to week 17 to recover from a ski trip/

Jon Bergmann · March 13, 2011 4:29PM

I did my final test yesterday at a local 5K: I went from 42 to 46 so I am quite pleased. And to do this on tired legs from all of the FTP and VO2 work also helps. I think if I rested and tapered for these final tests I could maybe bump up 2 more VDOT's???

I just complted the bike VO2 today and I am trashed from yesterday's run and then today's VO2 work.

Keith Wick · March 13, 2011 6:58PM

@ Jim- your LTHR would be the ave. over the hour, provided you gave it your all. Either way, if your training with pace, HR is just another metric to use on race day if things aren't feeling right at your paces. As far as your vdot, your talking about 1 point, so not a huge difference going on there. I think it's more important to look at where you'll be running. If your going to start doing more hills and less pancake flat courses, then stick with the 40. If you plan on going back to flat, then the 41 should be fine. The key thing to remember is that the paces are your max paces for each zone, not your min. pace.

johnschnorr · March 14, 2011 8:06AM

Great result Jim. I am in a similar spot. I have a half marathon this Sunday, and have questions about execution. What did you use as your goal pace, and how did that play out during the race?

[Deleted User] · March 14, 2011 8:39AM

Hi John. My goal pace was about 8:30, and that is exactly what I did. To get that goal I used my HMP training pace (8:27) and rounded up a little. There was certainly some luck involved, since I did all my training on very flat terrain, and the course was pretty hilly. On the hills I used HR and RPE to adjust the pacing, and hoped it would balance out in the end - and it did. I'm wondering if the bike work translates to running up hills, because I felt really strong on the hills, despite not training on them. It actually felt good to mix up the muscles that were working on the run. For pacing during the race I used the guidelines in the wiki, and that worked great. Felt amazingly good the entire race. Got tough the last couple of miles, but I guess it should - was pushing as hard as possible for the last mile. For training I followed the "incorporating a half marathon into the OS" hack in the wiki, trying to get as much "x-tra" HMP into the long runs as possible.

Good luck on your race!

[Deleted User] · March 14, 2011 8:42AM

Thanks for the input Keith - I think I'm going with the 41 paces on my usual flat training terrain. I also got lots of good feedback on this in the power and pace forum, if anyone is interested.

Brian Quarton [OLD] · March 20, 2011 10:17PM

Hilly 10K in 39:11 for a 6:19 pace. NGP was 6:12. Second masters, third OA. Small field with a 5K and 10M run simultaneously for 640 runners. Threw in a few too many surges too early trying to get a win and paid in mile 6. VDOT held pretty steady. BUT I didn't average 70 miles a week like last year. I can do that anytime. Point is now I can get out and run intervals at sub 6 pace and be able to get out of bed the next day. Just what I needed!

William Jenks · March 21, 2011 3:04PM

I did a 5K TT at the gym today. To be honest, my head had already gone into "Transition" and my heart wasn't in it....and I ended up miscalculating how many laps I had done and thinking I was totally cruising into my goal (sub 19) when, in fact, I had to totally go all out to get there....and I eased up and also ran one (~300 m) lap short.

I went back and tried to reconstruct/estimate where I would have finished if I had done it right, and I'm just going to call it no change since my last test. (19:15). If I had really had my head in it, I think I had the fitness to get to sub-19, but I didn't actually cross that barrier and I won't claim it.

This is a little disappointing (to booger my run test), but the truth is that it's just one more showing that the coaches are right that we need a break after the full OS.

However you look at it, though, my current time of 19:15 is a huge PR, so I'm pleased.

Good luck to everyone as we move into the season!

Keith Wick · March 27, 2011 12:06PM

Final vdot test today, so I decided to go out and run a 10k solo. After the warm up I felt as if I was flying and went out to fast. Sure did, however, I just kept hanging on. Miles 4 and 5 were hard as it was straight into a 15-20 mph headwind. It was so hard I just changed course and went into some developments to find shelter. vdot went up 1 point to a 45, but given that I've never been able to hold hard pace for over 4 miles, I'm psyched with the result. I went 45:13, which is over 5 minutes faster than any other 10k I've done and over 10 minutes faster than my first test with EN back in 2007. I can hold those paces for 5k's but never 10k. Lap times were:
7:17
7:18
7:03
7:27
7:26
7:16
6:56 (.2 miles)

jzilles · March 28, 2011 11:55AM

Sorry for the late post, but I did my final run test of the OS via a half marathon on 3/20. Let me testify that Work Works!! I did a 1:39 half mary and that PR's my best time by 8 full minutes!

Got my sights set on this year's races now - HIM on 6/5 and IM WISC.

Keith Wick · March 28, 2011 7:16PM

@ Jason--dude, that's awesome!!!! raising your vdot over three points and being able to execute it during a HM is great. congrats!!!

kimmydct · April 3, 2011 12:09PM

Results are in and I'm pretty happy (Starting with a low base of run fitness helps, but I'm thrilled to have finally reached the 10/min/mile pace over the 3miles!)

Test 1: 3 miles- 36:20, vdot 23.34
Final test: 3 miles- 30:00, vdot 30

That's a 29% improvement in vdot and 17% improvement in time!

Keith Wick · April 3, 2011 2:55PM

@ Kim--great job. improving over 6 minutes in a 3 mile test is impressive. I see mid-twenties coming quickly over the next 2 months.

Final November Outseason Run Test

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