Rich, at IMC in 2011 a friend of mine had a mirror on his helmet and he got a non time penalty and a red mark across his number and his mirror was confiscated by the ref!
And for those who read the arbitration for Moats, he admitted to taking T since 2005! If he ADMITTED this, why not retroactively take away all his race results not to mention his M55-59 Kona AG record???
At Jeff ... Totally concur. I'm hoping he gets a bunch of turned backs when he starts racing again. Also, Jeff Cuddebak ages up next year. He only races Kona the year he ages up and has never come in worse than 2nd. With and luck, he will erase Kevin Moats record.
Hubby and I were having an interesting discussion about this whole doping issue the other night- His opinion- that any pro out there in the top ranks is doping, triathlon included. I don't know what to think- hindsight with LA winning the TDF 7 years straight... sort of a no brainer now that you think about it I guess. But what's everyone's opinion on the whole issue in terms of triathlon- is is out there more than we think, just people have gotten better at hiding it? I have to say I'm a lot more skeptical now.
I'm actually glad for this. As a 50 year old physician I have been alarmed by this "LOW T" craze and marketing. Gotta think this is being used by lost of up older athletes either as Performance enhancing or just fountain of youth. This ban otta put the scare in everyone and maybe level things up a bit. I dunno. But, for us older athletes are clean it may bring a few of those peeps back into the field alittle.
I am racing Florida in a couple of weeks and was already wondering how far ahead of me Moats would finish. It will be interesting to see if he is really out of that race.
I'm actually glad for this. As a 50 year old physician I have been alarmed by this "LOW T" craze and marketing. Gotta think this is being used by lost of up older athletes either as Performance enhancing or just fountain of youth. This ban otta put the scare in everyone and maybe level things up a bit. I dunno. But, for us older athletes are clean it may bring a few of those peeps back into the field alittle.
@Michael, as difficult as this was for me to admit, especially at 10 years younger (40 next year) than you, I'm having some pretty significant problems with "low T" (see my previous thread here: members.endurancenation.us/Training...fault.aspx).
Seemingly, after seeing two different endocrinologists, their only "solution" is to prescribe artificial/synthetic testosterone, without any real explanation or further research into the actual cause. In my case, it seemingly came out of nowhere after IMAZ last year, but is not improving at all, almost a year later.
Personally, I'm not a fan of throwing 'medicine' (ex, drugs) at a problem, but with no other "real" options, I'm actually undergoing a "trial" right now to see if it ups my lab numbers, back into a normal range - not to push myself above and beyond any of my (non-existent) natural athletic ability. It's been a quality of life issue since last year, and it's really frustrating to say the least.
Worse off, even with PEDs, I doubt I'd ever get on an IM podium, or even a local sprint, to worry about testing!
There's a part of me that thinks this whole age-group drug testing is a necessary evil. And there's a part of me that just thinks it's sad.
A lady that takes my cycle class at the gym (and who used to be very involved in the tri community) told me that the reason she was turned off the sport enough to leave was because she felt like triathletes were "just a huge group of people with serious insecurity problems, trying to prove to each other that they really ARE good enough." I blatantly disagreed with her, saying that most triathletes I knew weren't like that. But the fact that age-groupers (who aren't paid to do this and who claim this to be a HOBBY) are out there risking their health and longevity just to out-perform everyone else? Makes me think twice....
Achieving personal goals is one thing. Being so scared that you WON'T achieve them that you start doping? Seek therapy.
great discussion here. my only knowledge of moats is hearing his wife express concern to a friend about her husband abusing testosterone for race results....back in 2005...kudos for them doing something, but shame on them for making it such a lightweight deal. I think if you are caught once, then you must pay (OUT OF POCKET) for between 1-3 random tests in the next 12 months if you wish to continue racing...
not to mention he went 2:23 to 2:27 over four consecutive years at NYC marathon back in the early 80s. Methinks he doesn't want to accept slowing down?
I think if you are caught once, then you must pay (OUT OF POCKET) for between 1-3 random tests in the next 12 months if you wish to continue racing...
Coach P-- I think you're thinking too small here. If you're caught, how about you get to pick between two different choices:
1) Lifetime ban from all USAT events
2) 1yr ban from all USAT events, then for 5 yrs after this ban, you have to pay out of pocket for 1-3 random tests per year on yourself , AND you pay out of your pocket for up to 5 random tests per yr for other AG competitors.
I think I disagree with the notion of the financial portion of the penalty being the most significant. Because that implies that individuals' means dictate severity. I do think that asking dopers to pay to "clean up the sport" is neat concept and may enable funding for legitimate progress against doping. So that is good. But the punitive aspect ought not to be mostly financial. I think the main components of the penalty should be: - Shame and humiliation - Exclusion from the sport for an appropriate time period - Additional policing when you are allowed back into the sport
In the AG ranks I think that shame and humiliation should be a major component. This can, and should, be implemented in many ways.
@ Matt - most of us would be mortified to have gone through the wirebrush they gave Moats on SlowTwitch. If he had tested positive because he took something inadvertantly, or perhaps for a onetime muscle tear, then I could see him feeling very bad. But for a guy who has been on the juice for at least 7 years, and who apparently has no concern over what people think about the rearview mirror on his racing helmet, I don't think there is enough shame and humiliation to keep him away. He'll be back, he will still draft, and he will be more careful about the timing of his doping.
My point on the financials is that your "penalty" helps pay to keep the sport clean...the flavor of that is up to you. Still, can't get over the year ban retroactive to Jan but not to include his races this year (Kona, etc.)....clearly I need to negotiate better with my wife when I get put in the dawg house!!!!
i don't think you can fine any amateurs.... but you could require an extra fee for testing if they chose to race again.
But I have another idea.... probably not practical... but a thought:
Perhaps you could require everyone who was on the podium to pee in a cup (or give a blood sample, but boy is that invasive....), while only ACTUALLY testing a certain fraction of them routinely. But don't promise that the tests are random...and then you could choose to test people who improved too much or whatever if you wanted.
Comments
Rich, at IMC in 2011 a friend of mine had a mirror on his helmet and he got a non time penalty and a red mark across his number and his mirror was confiscated by the ref!
And for those who read the arbitration for Moats, he admitted to taking T since 2005! If he ADMITTED this, why not retroactively take away all his race results not to mention his M55-59 Kona AG record???
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2012/10/age-group-drug-testing/
Hubby and I were having an interesting discussion about this whole doping issue the other night- His opinion- that any pro out there in the top ranks is doping, triathlon included. I don't know what to think- hindsight with LA winning the TDF 7 years straight... sort of a no brainer now that you think about it I guess. But what's everyone's opinion on the whole issue in terms of triathlon- is is out there more than we think, just people have gotten better at hiding it? I have to say I'm a lot more skeptical now.
I'm actually glad for this. As a 50 year old physician I have been alarmed by this "LOW T" craze and marketing. Gotta think this is being used by lost of up older athletes either as Performance enhancing or just fountain of youth. This ban otta put the scare in everyone and maybe level things up a bit. I dunno. But, for us older athletes are clean it may bring a few of those peeps back into the field alittle.
@Michael, as difficult as this was for me to admit, especially at 10 years younger (40 next year) than you, I'm having some pretty significant problems with "low T" (see my previous thread here: members.endurancenation.us/Training...fault.aspx).
Seemingly, after seeing two different endocrinologists, their only "solution" is to prescribe artificial/synthetic testosterone, without any real explanation or further research into the actual cause. In my case, it seemingly came out of nowhere after IMAZ last year, but is not improving at all, almost a year later.
Personally, I'm not a fan of throwing 'medicine' (ex, drugs) at a problem, but with no other "real" options, I'm actually undergoing a "trial" right now to see if it ups my lab numbers, back into a normal range - not to push myself above and beyond any of my (non-existent) natural athletic ability. It's been a quality of life issue since last year, and it's really frustrating to say the least.
Worse off, even with PEDs, I doubt I'd ever get on an IM podium, or even a local sprint, to worry about testing!
A lady that takes my cycle class at the gym (and who used to be very involved in the tri community) told me that the reason she was turned off the sport enough to leave was because she felt like triathletes were "just a huge group of people with serious insecurity problems, trying to prove to each other that they really ARE good enough." I blatantly disagreed with her, saying that most triathletes I knew weren't like that. But the fact that age-groupers (who aren't paid to do this and who claim this to be a HOBBY) are out there risking their health and longevity just to out-perform everyone else? Makes me think twice....
Achieving personal goals is one thing. Being so scared that you WON'T achieve them that you start doping? Seek therapy.
Well now we all can say we have some thing in common with Lance Armstrong , 0 TDF wins...
Coach P-- I think you're thinking too small here. If you're caught, how about you get to pick between two different choices:
1) Lifetime ban from all USAT events
2) 1yr ban from all USAT events, then for 5 yrs after this ban, you have to pay out of pocket for 1-3 random tests per year on yourself , AND you pay out of your pocket for up to 5 random tests per yr for other AG competitors.
- Shame and humiliation
- Exclusion from the sport for an appropriate time period
- Additional policing when you are allowed back into the sport
In the AG ranks I think that shame and humiliation should be a major component. This can, and should, be implemented in many ways.
Just my $0.02...
But I have another idea.... probably not practical... but a thought:
Perhaps you could require everyone who was on the podium to pee in a cup (or give a blood sample, but boy is that invasive....), while only ACTUALLY testing a certain fraction of them routinely. But don't promise that the tests are random...and then you could choose to test people who improved too much or whatever if you wanted.
Seriously, I agree with William. The threat of being tested needs to feel real.