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TrainerRoad Question

As a HR athlete who also plans on using Trainerroad for "virtual power" during the OS, should I do the "power" bike test or "HR" test?



Also - any word on the EN/Trainerroad partnership?

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  • I'd say do it with virtual power. I was in the same boat last year when I was starting off with trainer road, and it worked out really well, I think. As long as your setup is consistent (same pressure on the trainer drum, same tire pressure, etc), thats the most important thing. Since the test happens first thing in the OS, you'll execute the test, and get some numbers as a result. Then, just shoot for those numbers during the workouts. Over time you'll see how your HR corresponds.

    If a WSM says differently, I'll defer to them image
  • Hi Greg,

    I'm far from a WSM but I had great results with virtual power (VP). Objective of the bike test is repeatability - as in, test, set zones, train, train, train, test again, assess progress, adjust zones (up), repeat. The fact that VP may be off from actual watts doesn't matter - the key is that your testing (which sets your zones) and your training (which is in your zones) is on the same platform. The advantage over HR is that your power is immediate-in-the-moment. Imagine a VO2 Max workout where you're trying to train at 140% of your threshold for 50s then resting 50s then 140% for 50s then rest 50s etc.,. By the time your HR starts to catch up with your effort the interval is over. Power is much better for short-interval training, and short-intervals are important to the EN work ethic. VP was very easy to use, and worked great for me. I didn't actually buy a powertap until I realized how much I wanted that feedback on the road. I do most of my training on a "Free Ride" for whatever time; I do whatever workout my EN plan says to do. Back in the day, I followed the TR plans, and that worked for me too. Reach out if you have any challenges getting the VP set up, but there isn't too much too it. You just need the speed/cadence sensors.
  • @Ryan-x2

    @Russel, you need to post more... That's a great answer.

  • Thanks!!  I'm all set to get started!

  • Greg, thanks for starting this thread because I have been asking myself similar questions.

    But, I still have more question regarding the use of TrainerRoad. I lack tech-knowledge (sometimes I wish I was a tech-geek) - so to use TrainerRoad, I was thinking of purchasing something like this (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/WatchesClocks/PRD~5023-200/suunto-move-stick-mini.jsp) to transfer the readings from my bike computer which is wireless to my laptop. Now, and here is the question, can I assume that the data stick will read values from my bike computer or do I also have to buy a new bike computer (and if so, is there anything I need to look for that will make it compatible with TrainerRoad)? I like the idea of using VP, especially since I can't afford to purchase a power meter right now. Thanks in advance to any EN members who can help.
  • Naomi - I am just getting started with TR, so I am by no means any kind of expert.  But... I do know that you don't need your bike computer to upload data to your computer.  I couldn't make your link work, so I'm not sure what you were thinking of using. 

    I am using this ( www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003V1YLFK/ref=as_li_ss_tl ) to upload data from my HR monitor and my speed/cadence sensor directly into TR.  Because everything is wireless, the information can go to both TR and your bike computer at the same time. 

     

    I do have another question, however, about the bike test.  In looking at the rides on TR, they seem to have a 2x20' test and another 1x20' test that has a long warm up.  But neither of these fit the prescribed Power test in the new OS plans.  So... should I just do a 'free ride' and test away as prescribed in the OS plan (5' VO2, rest, 20' FTP')?  Or try to 'convert' one of these somehow?

  •  There is an EN like 20 min Test. Search workouts for 20 minute test. Problem is, it has a five minute recovery interval between the 5 & 20 minutes test intervals. So you have to repeat the five minute recovery interval. Just before the end of the interval, use your mouse/track pad to re-position the pointer back five minutes, to the 25 minute mark, click, and TR will start up again from that point.

    Naomi, make sure your bike computer or whatever source you are feeding into TR via the Garmin ANT + stick is "ANT-compatible". If it is, the process is automatic, things will work just fine.

    In prep for Monday's test, I did a full dress rehearsal today after a six month hiatus from TR. I did a simple TR workout called Birch, and everything worked just fine, it amazes me how TR integrates so many different systems for me: PowerTap, HR strap, trainer are all mutually incompatible, yet TR uses each of them to provide a single easy to read screen of my workout with watts, HR, cadence, speed, everything in fromt of my face.

  • @Al - found it! Awesome!! Thanks!!!
  • Al,
    Are you using a Computrainer with TR? If so, how do you have yours set up and what ant+ devices are you running vs CT devices (ie...cadence, HR, Powermeter...)?
    Thanks
  • Ebe,

    I have a CT with TrainerRoad. CT just plugs into my laptop via a USB port. When setting up a TR ride, under devices, just pick CT as your device and pair it. Works like a charm. I also have my PT which I use also to collect cadence data so I pair that too. Once in a while I attach a heart rate monitor, and can pair that too. I save the ride to my Garmin 800 and upload it to TrainingPeaks. You can also directly upload the TR file, but I often do an extra warm up and cool down before/after the TR ride, so the Garmin captures everything.

    You can also use the CT handle bar computer to start / stop TR, calibrate the device after warming up and to increase/decrease the intensity of the ride. - I mostly decrease image

    tom
  • You can also get a Garmin speed/cadence sensor (about $40 on amazon), and an extra Garmin ANT+ USB stick (another $25 or so, I think). As Al said - just need hardware that is ANT+ compatible. No need for a special bike computer, CT, power or anything else (although they are nice) to use TR effectively.

  • Posted By Ebe Boettcher on 27 Oct 2012 03:35 PM

    Al,

    Are you using a Computrainer with TR? If so, how do you have yours set up and what ant+ devices are you running vs CT devices (ie...cadence, HR, Powermeter...)?

    Thanks



    TR's official Video demonstrating how to use the CT with TR:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvyxow52FnQ

  • Just make sure when you use Computrainer and Trainerroad, that you warm up tires for a few minutes in early part of workout, then hit F3 to do calibration, then F3 to save. I also recalibrate one more time later in workout.

  • Ok newbie question... I've tried to figure it out, but I need some help. Im pretty sure my trainer isn't compatible with the TrainerRoad because it's lower end, but how do I really know? I'm not super excited about buying a powermeter, but it seems like using power is the way to be most successful with these training plans!! Thanks for your help!
  • Awesome guys,
    Thanks for the info!!!
  • @Jessie - when you say not compatible, are you saying that because it is not listed on TR's list of trainers? Or are you assuming that because it is lower end, it won't work, what with the conversation about computrainers and their ability to plug into TR?



    For the most part, as long as your setup is consistent from one workout to the next, that is what matters the most.



    What kind of trainer do you have (make/model) and is it mag, wind or fluid?

  • Posted By Jessie Stevens on 28 Oct 2012 12:50 PM

    Ok newbie question... I've tried to figure it out, but I need some help. Im pretty sure my trainer isn't compatible with the TrainerRoad because it's lower end, but how do I really know? I'm not super excited about buying a powermeter, but it seems like using power is the way to be most successful with these training plans!! Thanks for your help!

    You've gone to

    this page

    and not found your trainer among the 213 models currently supported for virtual power? If yours is not on the list, your options/$$ are: ANT+ HR strap and USB stick, to at least get the HR data into TR ($70 or so); buy a compatible trainer ($ a couple hundred for the cheapest); or get a PM (used Power Tap wheel on eBay: $700 or less > New PT: $900-2000 > Quarq, SRM cranks: $2-4000). You need to do one of these three things for EN, whether you use Trainer Road or not.

  • Hey guys thanks for the quick reply,

    I assumed it wouldn't work because my trainer is lower end (Travel Trac - fluid) and because this is all new to me. I guess I just didn't fully understand how it all worked or even know there was a list of supported models. Now I looked it up, and my trainer is supported. Now I need an ANT+ speed sensor? ...what is this? I've got the Garmin forerunner 305, so I'm good with the HR.
  • The speed/cadence sensor can be purchased from Amazon for about 40 bucks (http://www.amazon.com/GARMIN-010-10644-00-SPEED-CADENCE-SENSOR/dp/B004UMGLW0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1351451939&sr=8-3&keywords=garmin+speed+cadence+sensor).
    A local bike or tri shop might also have one. You need this because TR needs some way of determining how fast the rear wheel is spinning (which it then uses to determine how much resistance the trainer is putting up, and therefore how much power is being generated).

    You'll also need an ANT+ USB stick from Garmin as well (also available from Amazon - about $25). http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-010-10999-00-USB-Ant-Stick/dp/B000UO9KSY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1351451974&sr=1-1&keywords=garmin+ANT++usb

  • Ok I can do that! One more question... once I purchase this stuff, is there another fee for the TR website to process all the information, or do I do that with software on my computer and enter in the info with my training plan?
    Thank you for all your help!
  •  @Jessie - TrainerRoad is a subscription service - http://www.trainerroad.com/pricing - $10 per month.  I use TR year round (kids are asleep, wife running, and I'm in the garage...)  There are no additional fees to crunch the data.  

    Full configuration instructions are on the TR site: http://support.trainerroad.com/entries/20636866-what-hardware-do-i-need-to-use-trainerroad

    Entry level includes: ANT+ stick, ANT+ speed-cadence sensor (GARMIN or WAHOO, both <$40).  You set up the speed-cadence sensor, install the TR software on your laptop, plug in the ANT+ USB stick, and go.  If it doesn't work then reach out for support - here or at TR (in my experience the support at TR was great)</p>

    @Naomi - I wonder how all this reads to a non-geek - are you tracking or is this topic losing you?  No cycling computer involved - just your laptop and an ANT+ USB stick - please feel free to reach out if you need some help getting set up - it's so much better than training without it.

     

  • You all have been a great help! I think I've got it now... I'll make a purchase, play around and get back to you with any issues! Thanks I really appreciate it!
  • Thanks! I think I'm starting to understand how TR works and what I need to purchase to measure my data. I'm pretty sure that my current bike computer is not ANT+ compatible (although I did email Trek to be 100% sure). So it won't be much use with TR.

    @Russell - thanks for the specifics. I will head to the local bike shop/outdoors store this week to see about getting a ANT+ stick and ANT+ sensor, as you recommended.
  •  @Naomi - anytime - summary - 

     

    Your current bike computer isn't part of the configuration at all whether it's ANT+ compatible or not - your laptop becomes your cycle computer.  This works because your setup is (presumably) stationary.  If you want, I'll send you a photo of my setup.  Your LBS/outdoors-store may have what you need but I wouldn't count on it - most don't know from TrainerRoad, because even though many people ride, most don't train the way you have signed up to train.  Your best place to go is probably Amazon, and I am a local-shopper as a way of life.  

     

    Things you probably already have:

     

    Laptop - PC or Mac

    Bike

    Fluid or magnetic trainer (Kurt Kinetic, CycleOps are favorites, but there are many other options - list at http://www.trainerroad.com/virtual-power)

    Rags to toss over the headset (lots of rags ... tends to be a sweaty activity ...)

     

    Things you probably need to buy:

     


     


    (I can't say if one is better than the other)

     

    If you have these items then you can get started.  Period.  No Trek computer required.


    TR will show all the stats, including heart rate if you have an ANT+ heart-rate monitor, in color on your laptop screen - it's pretty nice.

     

    Also useful:

     

    You may also want a heart-rate monitor, like this:


     

    Someday you will want a watch that allows you to take all this on the road:


    This gives you the watch, HRM and ANT+ stick in a convenient bundle, saving you money in the long run if you're going to want the watch anyway (you probably will).

     

    Do you need to spend money on all this stuff?  Well, no, and yes, and no.  EN works by prescribing training intensities and durations and frequencies that balance training effect with recovery.  To really leverage EN, you need to be able to gauge your intensity on the fly, in the interval, so that your dosage matches the prescription.  These are tools that help you do that, and they are helpful.  There is something decidedly geeky about all this, but then, it's decidedly geeky to want to know how fast you can really go.  

     

    Hope all this helps - let us know how it goes.

     

    r
  • @Russell - okay, okay, I'm slow but I'm starting to get it. Thanks for translating all the geek-speak into English for me. Your post is exactly what I needed. Fortunately I can do some online shopping from work today ... image
  • probably a bit of a highjack..but didn't want to start a new thread.

    Does anyone ever adjust the intensity? The little % at the bottom left of screen.

    I am on a computrainer with the TR...and found during my test it was much harder to keep my cadence up then when I did just a straight computrainer 10 mile TT test.
    Just curious if I lowere the intensity, would the load be a little less.

  • Posted By Ann Sloan on 31 Oct 2012 06:06 PM

    probably a bit of a highjack..but didn't want to start a new thread.



    Does anyone ever adjust the intensity? The little % at the bottom left of screen.



    I am on a computrainer with the TR...and found during my test it was much harder to keep my cadence up then when I did just a straight computrainer 10 mile TT test.

    Just curious if I lowere the intensity, would the load be a little less.





    Yes...I do that all the time. With the CT, you can adjust the intensity via the +- keys on the CT head unit /controller, as well as on screen in TR.Both reduce by 1% a pop. But, when you are using one of the TR testing workouts, TR will convert CT from ERG mode to Slope mode, so adjusting the intensity does nothing; you need to shift gears to ake things easier or harder.

  • I did my first two TR rides yesterday. (The 4 minute how ride, and the 20 Minute test) I was very impressed with how easy it was to use. What was very helpful for me is seeing that I clearly have not used my trainer properly in the past. I used to just get to a cadence of 90 and then spin for however long I was spinning. By using the virtual power I could see how shifting gears, and changing my cadence, allowed me to stay in the correct power range. When TR wanted me to work harder I shifted gears, went at a faster cadence, and kept the power where it should be. Best $10 I have spent in a long time.

    --Larry
  • Hi All - I have a question to piggy-back on this discussion: I'm using Trainer Road for virtual power as well (with ANT+ stick, cadence + HR sensor). In addition, I have my Forerunner 310xt that I have been using for my runs (and also outdoor rides). I've been downloading all of the Garmin data to the Garmin Connect site, which is great, but it would be so much better if I could have the Trainer Road data alongside it. Does anyone know of a way (or another service) to aggregate the two sets of data?

    On top of that, and this is probably a pipe dream, but is there a way to sync Trainer Road with the Forerunner so that the virtual power from TR is displayed/captured by the Forerunner?

    -Dan

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