Was finally able to complete the Vdot test today after being a little sick earlier in the week. Opted to heal and do the run test with reliable results rather than take a chance of getting sicker with a vdot that's off anyway.
Ran outside instead of the treadmill at the gym, 39 degree weather, pretty fun! It's real fall in the north-east. Was shooting for an average of 7:30 min / mile but ended up at 7:13/mile. Surprisingly better than expected. Feeling like my body is heavy and slow though.
@Kate - I'd go to the micro thread and ask RnP what they think. That's a pretty big difference, and it may indicate that your 5k test underestimated your fitness, or you may be hammering the intervals. This sounds like an "ask the coach" to me.
@ Kate -- a word of caution regarding over achieving. It will hit you down stream. There is a section of the wiki that tals about it. The overall fatigue and build up over the OS will come back to bite you sooner rather than later if you go too hard too soon. Work really hard to stay with the paces you have earned in the test. The OS will be littered wih folks that overachieve and then either get sick or injured.
If you're balancing training-effect (more-intensity=more-gain) with crash-burn-avoidance (more-intensity=more-risk), then wisdom would say you should only train faster after you test faster. Jack Daniels stresses this point in his most excellent book on VDOT and running performance - don't train faster than your tests say you should.
That said - if your perceived-exertion and HR are both telling you you're in-zone, then you may be in your zone at those paces, in which case your 5k test is under-representing your capability. Lot's of things can throw off a 5k test - left too much on the table - under-confidence - fatigue you're not aware of - moon is behind you and exerting a backward gravitational pull...
Taking this a step further for fun and profit – let’s say you plug in an interval pace of 8:30; where does that land you for a 5k time? I don’t have time right now to look back at your 5k and do the math on this, but I can later and update the post... Let’s say though that a 8:30 I pace equates to roughly a 39 or 38 VDOT and therefore a 24 or 25m 5k. (What are your actual #’s here?) If this is way off from your original test, then re-test. Only this time, start out at an 8:40 pace; after a mile, if you’re feeling good, pick it up to an 8:30 and hold it; after 2 miles if you’re feeling good, gradually pick it up TO AN 8:20.
The disclaimer – I’m not a coach, and I’m not a WSM, and I’ve only been here a little while, I haven't looked at your 5k splits, and we’ve never met – I don’t have a lot to go on. This is why I suggest going to the micro thread and asking RnP their thoughts.
I think I also saw a great post from one of the WSM’s on how to pace for a good 5k test. Of course, you can also just wait for the next test set... but it’s early in the OS, and your perceived exertion says you may have tested below your capability, and even if you decide to wait for the next test, I would ask if it makes sense to go out a bit more aggressively for your next 5k test. If you go out too fast and crash, well, it was only a test. On the other hand, you might find you’re faster than you thought...
Back to Paul’s comment, though – don’t train faster than you test. Test again, and up your training metrics, then train faster.
So I kinda bagged the 5K test this week for work reasons - BUT just finished my Sunday 2 x 1/2M and 1 M session - and way way faster than my IM12 training paces! my Z4 for last season was 8:22 and my times today were 3:45 (7:15 pace); 3:58 (7:49 pace); 8:00 (7:52 pace- I went slightly farther) - so should I do the test or just take the 8:00 pace as my Z4?
BTW, the classical violin concerti list I put together really rocked - posting it on the playlist thread.
@ Paul, @ Russell: Thanks. Good feedback. I'm inclined to blame the moon's gravitational pull, but I'm throwing it over to the coaches. I don't want to break myself in week 1!
@ Aaron - I think Roy has it covered but I will add my 0.02. If you are on the beginner plan then just stick to the 45' or whatever the shorter time is especially as you point out you have not races in the near future. The 75-90 minutes is for those that have warm weather and feel the need to get some longer running in.
Further today I did my workout and was pretty tired so I did z1 work for 7' after. Get the main set in which is the 800's in your case then add in a little time. In the past I have even walked the break intervals so that I could get a quality main set in the early weeks. I did that today on my 2X1 mile and have no regrets.
@Kate ;- You have some good advise cautioning overexertion on the run. Watch the week 2 webcast by Coach P. Go to the training tab- my training plan - Then in week two on the upper right there will be two links. Patrick discusses ways to deal with this and perhaps that was a 'bad' test or upping the Vdot. Again be careful ramping up early on especally if you are confident in your Vdot test. Finally as mentioned post something in the Micro thread to the coach for comment.
In the past the mantra was test to earn the improvement, especially on the run where overacheiving can really hurt downstream workouts.
2X1mile @TP which was 10:02 on the treadmill so right on target.
As mentioned in an earlier post I walked some of the 2' recovery and then did 7' at z1 as I just was not feeling any more work. 45' total. This is my first year in the advanced plan and honestly I will have to watch the running as I can handle the cycling work more than the running.
Lots of solid work represented in this run thread. Here's to ending a good week 1.
Got my run in this afternoon. Warmup and then 2 mile repeats just a bit hot (6:19 and 6:11 on a 6:26 target). I'll work to get that under control. Took the "take some more time if you want" plug and stretched out the run to a total of 82 minutes, ending at 10.1 miles. First time running over an hour since Louisville and I felt it. Think I will work to stretch out these runs IAW the guidance for the OS.
Finished my long run this morning. My goal was to hold 7:37 for the half mile repeats and 7:26 for the milel. I am really digging the EN approach to training and I can't wait to see where I am in 14 weeks. Have a great weekend.
Finally getting around to recording this weekend's workouts and planning this week's schedule. Both the football teams I track won so that is my excuse (Army beat Air Force and the Texans beat the Bills)!
Today on the run, target was 7:00-7:19 and I ran 7:06 and 6:55. AVHR was right on so this shows improvement even just this week from my test date! Total run with warm-up and cool-down was 6.25. Perfect conditions - 60 degrees with a slight breeze!
Looking forward to this next week! Will swim tomorrow and do drills to help recovery for Tuesday.
I planned on doing the intervals followed by EP to MP running to bring the total up to 75 minutes today. I started out and noticed my right hamstring was a little tight. I figured no big deal - it would probably lose up. I did a good 15 minute warmup, then started the first 1/2 mile TP interval. Right at the end of it my right hamstring cramped up. I was forced to walk for a bit, then a slow jog back home. 45 min total. Been icing and rolling since. It's tight and tender, but I can walk around okay. Hoping a day off, ice, and stretching fixes things...
@Jim...If its still a problem after 48 hrs, you might consider wearing and running with a neoprene wrap around your thigh ... Keep it warm and supported while it improves.
officially finished with Week 1 of the OS and my legs are feeling the pain. ran for ~60 min this afternoon and did my intervals at the local college track. had a much easier time hitting my times today vs. holding the Z2 and Z3 paces for yesterday's run. looking forward to tomorrow's rest day and then onto Week 2!
Ran outside today. 1.5 mile WU from home to local HS track. Once there I couldn't remember if my 2x800 and 1x1600 were 7:36 or 7:10.... so.... I went for the 7:10ish - my (I) pace. Opps! Actually it felt rather good. I even went on after the repeats to run an additional 5.2 miles @ 7:53 (HMP = 7:48)
Week 1 = done! Great run today. As I was running I thought it was going to be hard to maintain my target pace with the intervals, but when I was done my laps/interval avg times were right on! I'm learning to focus on the quality of my workouts vs miles covered and I like it!
Did my run today and what's amazing me is that I'm actually (based on my assigned paces) going easier then I would have if I was trying to train on my own. Which is a good thing. When I self coach I push as hard as I can every workout and I end up burning out really fast. I dread every run because I know it's going to be terrible - and I'll be terribly hard on myself. It's nice to know I can back off just a little and still be doing myself good - and improving.
Did my 3x1 mile in the evening today at around ~6:48/mi. Got pretty warm outside today, so I waited until dark. Calves are a bit sore, but not a huge deal. Work goes in, speed comes out! I also spaced this workout 30+ hours after my bike workout yesterday morning, so plenty of recovery time. I'll try to do this weekly to maximize recovery between hard sessions on the weekends.
Man, I'm so dreading the fact that the sun sets so early nowadays. I always find that I have more running mojo when the world is actually illuminated.
Just getting around to posting this - but I won't make the mistake of overdoing Saturdays brick run before Sundays run again. Although I managed by 2 x 1 @ TP during Sunday's run, it was a tough go of it. Extending the run to 85' with the balance between MP and LRP was reasonably comfortable. That seemed a really good pace to work on form, as it was always pushing just a tad, so any slacking in form was noticeable. My legs feel it today, though.
Comments
Ran outside instead of the treadmill at the gym, 39 degree weather, pretty fun! It's real fall in the north-east. Was shooting for an average of 7:30 min / mile but ended up at 7:13/mile. Surprisingly better than expected. Feeling like my body is heavy and slow though.
@Kate - I'd go to the micro thread and ask RnP what they think. That's a pretty big difference, and it may indicate that your 5k test underestimated your fitness, or you may be hammering the intervals. This sounds like an "ask the coach" to me.
@ Kate -- a word of caution regarding over achieving. It will hit you down stream. There is a section of the wiki that tals about it. The overall fatigue and build up over the OS will come back to bite you sooner rather than later if you go too hard too soon. Work really hard to stay with the paces you have earned in the test. The OS will be littered wih folks that overachieve and then either get sick or injured.
@kate - x2 on Paul's comment.
If you're balancing training-effect (more-intensity=more-gain) with crash-burn-avoidance (more-intensity=more-risk), then wisdom would say you should only train faster after you test faster. Jack Daniels stresses this point in his most excellent book on VDOT and running performance - don't train faster than your tests say you should.
That said - if your perceived-exertion and HR are both telling you you're in-zone, then you may be in your zone at those paces, in which case your 5k test is under-representing your capability. Lot's of things can throw off a 5k test - left too much on the table - under-confidence - fatigue you're not aware of - moon is behind you and exerting a backward gravitational pull...
Taking this a step further for fun and profit – let’s say you plug in an interval pace of 8:30; where does that land you for a 5k time? I don’t have time right now to look back at your 5k and do the math on this, but I can later and update the post... Let’s say though that a 8:30 I pace equates to roughly a 39 or 38 VDOT and therefore a 24 or 25m 5k. (What are your actual #’s here?) If this is way off from your original test, then re-test. Only this time, start out at an 8:40 pace; after a mile, if you’re feeling good, pick it up to an 8:30 and hold it; after 2 miles if you’re feeling good, gradually pick it up TO AN 8:20.
The disclaimer – I’m not a coach, and I’m not a WSM, and I’ve only been here a little while, I haven't looked at your 5k splits, and we’ve never met – I don’t have a lot to go on. This is why I suggest going to the micro thread and asking RnP their thoughts.
I think I also saw a great post from one of the WSM’s on how to pace for a good 5k test. Of course, you can also just wait for the next test set... but it’s early in the OS, and your perceived exertion says you may have tested below your capability, and even if you decide to wait for the next test, I would ask if it makes sense to go out a bit more aggressively for your next 5k test. If you go out too fast and crash, well, it was only a test. On the other hand, you might find you’re faster than you thought...
Back to Paul’s comment, though – don’t train faster than you test. Test again, and up your training metrics, then train faster.
BTW, the classical violin concerti list I put together really rocked - posting it on the playlist thread.
@ Paul, @ Russell: Thanks. Good feedback. I'm inclined to blame the moon's gravitational pull, but I'm throwing it over to the coaches. I don't want to break myself in week 1!
@ Aaron - I think Roy has it covered but I will add my 0.02. If you are on the beginner plan then just stick to the 45' or whatever the shorter time is especially as you point out you have not races in the near future. The 75-90 minutes is for those that have warm weather and feel the need to get some longer running in.
Further today I did my workout and was pretty tired so I did z1 work for 7' after. Get the main set in which is the 800's in your case then add in a little time. In the past I have even walked the break intervals so that I could get a quality main set in the early weeks. I did that today on my 2X1 mile and have no regrets.
@Kate ;- You have some good advise cautioning overexertion on the run. Watch the week 2 webcast by Coach P. Go to the training tab- my training plan - Then in week two on the upper right there will be two links. Patrick discusses ways to deal with this and perhaps that was a 'bad' test or upping the Vdot. Again be careful ramping up early on especally if you are confident in your Vdot test. Finally as mentioned post something in the Micro thread to the coach for comment.
In the past the mantra was test to earn the improvement, especially on the run where overacheiving can really hurt downstream workouts.
Gordon
Week 1 is now in the books.
2X1mile @TP which was 10:02 on the treadmill so right on target.
As mentioned in an earlier post I walked some of the 2' recovery and then did 7' at z1 as I just was not feeling any more work. 45' total. This is my first year in the advanced plan and honestly I will have to watch the running as I can handle the cycling work more than the running.
Gordon
Got my run in this afternoon. Warmup and then 2 mile repeats just a bit hot (6:19 and 6:11 on a 6:26 target). I'll work to get that under control. Took the "take some more time if you want" plug and stretched out the run to a total of 82 minutes, ending at 10.1 miles. First time running over an hour since Louisville and I felt it. Think I will work to stretch out these runs IAW the guidance for the OS.
Keep at it everyone!
Hi all,
Ran to the track (2.5m downhill, 9:30 pace), did the work, ran back (2.5m, UPhill, 10:00 pace), about 77m.
Did the warm-up and recovery well but I overcooked the intervals a little. T pace for me should be 7:36m/m.
My intervals? 3:31 (7:02m/m), 3:36 (7:12m/m), then 7:26 (7:26m/m).
My laps: 1:58, 1:51, 1:55, 1:40, so I'll want to even that out a bit, and bring the intensity down.
On the way back, I wondered about the wisdom of locking myself in to the run back, but I kept it going.
Need that rest day, and need to do a little research on preventative maintenance exercises for feet/arches, clearly my weak link.
I'll do some wiki-walking and see what I find...
Finally getting around to recording this weekend's workouts and planning this week's schedule. Both the football teams I track won so that is my excuse (Army beat Air Force and the Texans beat the Bills)!
Today on the run, target was 7:00-7:19 and I ran 7:06 and 6:55. AVHR was right on so this shows improvement even just this week from my test date! Total run with warm-up and cool-down was 6.25. Perfect conditions - 60 degrees with a slight breeze!
Looking forward to this next week! Will swim tomorrow and do drills to help recovery for Tuesday.
@Jim...If its still a problem after 48 hrs, you might consider wearing and running with a neoprene wrap around your thigh ... Keep it warm and supported while it improves.
officially finished with Week 1 of the OS and my legs are feeling the pain. ran for ~60 min this afternoon and did my intervals at the local college track. had a much easier time hitting my times today vs. holding the Z2 and Z3 paces for yesterday's run. looking forward to tomorrow's rest day and then onto Week 2!
2x800 -> 3:29, 3:28
1x1600 -> 6:55
Total run 10.2 @ 8:22; 1:25:21
Great job to all for your hard work this week!
Man, I'm so dreading the fact that the sun sets so early nowadays. I always find that I have more running mojo when the world is actually illuminated.
Glad today is a rest day. Legs are sore and bit tender
My legs feel it today, though.
Are you OK? Its hard to imagine your 5K time is the same as mine, and Im a minute slower than 3 years ago. I give you six weeks to get back above 50