I did something wrong. I thought I got my bike information but not sure where it went or if I did it right. They dont show up in the Info part of my profile as my run test reults do. I also probabloy skipped some reading but what is the FTP? Is it just for the power meter? If I did the Heart Rate test than what do I calculate?
There were my numbers:
40mins, 153 Average HR, 168 max HR, 18 mph average, 12 miles. what goes where in the calculator .
I can't believe I'm saying this, but it is FUN to be back in the OS! The 30/30 today definitely built up over the sets, but I hit all of them at target and really focused on keeping my effort at 65% in the OFF.
Only 5 hrs of sleep the night before so woke up this morning kinda dreading the 30/30s planned for today. Chugged a super charged cup of coffee and a Gatorade then jumped on the bike.
After warming up, felt better. Glad I got the work done. Now heading to bed early and focusing on recovery tomorrow -- just have to stay away from the wine.
Got the 30/30's done tonight. 6 x (4 x 30/30) The hardest part was remembering how many I'd already done! Anyway, my tested VO2 is higher than 120% of FTP and the plan has me doing my 30/30s at 120% of FTP, and I've read some posts stating that's what we shold shoot for. I compromised and targeted in bettern 182 and 196. Generally landed close to 190 and it felt pretty easy. I played around with cadence though and found is was "easier" to hit the watts at a higher cadence but I got tired faster. I def. tend to have a slower cadence so I figure it is probably better to get out of my comfort zone.
Did today's ride after dinner. I don't think I will do that again.....not fun. Not fun at all.
I also gave the new Standard Warm-up a try. That is going to take some getting used to as it is different enough from the old 3x1'(1') to count as work in and of itself.
Posted By Cristina Ramirez on 10 Jan 2013 06:37 PM
I did something wrong. I thought I got my bike information but not sure where it went or if I did it right. They dont show up in the Info part of my profile as my run test reults do. I also probabloy skipped some reading but what is the FTP? Is it just for the power meter? If I did the Heart Rate test than what do I calculate?
There were my numbers:
40mins, 153 Average HR, 168 max HR, 18 mph average, 12 miles. what goes where in the calculator .
any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
Cristina - FTP stands for Functional Threshold Power. You would get that number if you are using a powermeter or TrainerRoad. As you are using your Heart Rate for the training metric, you just put zeros in those fields in the data tool calculator.
After you push 'calculate', you will get a screen that shows your HR zones for the 5 training zones we use. As an example, my LTHR (Lactate Threshold HeartRate, or average HR in your case) was 168. Therefore my HR training zones are:
Got the 30/30's done tonight. 6 x (4 x 30/30) The hardest part was remembering how many I'd already done! Anyway, my tested VO2 is higher than 120% of FTP and the plan has me doing my 30/30s at 120% of FTP, and I've read some posts stating that's what we shold shoot for. I compromised and targeted in bettern 182 and 196. Generally landed close to 190 and it felt pretty easy. I played around with cadence though and found is was "easier" to hit the watts at a higher cadence but I got tired faster. I def. tend to have a slower cadence so I figure it is probably better to get out of my comfort zone.
Can I do VO2 only and no FTP stuff? Good times!
Kim - are you using a Garmin device? I ask b/c I program the workouts into mine. I think I can export from Training Center, but I don't know about Garmin Connect....
Anyone know if we can do that? If so, I will be happy to post.
Thank you Joe. I thought I had done that but guess my numbers were saved. My LTHR seems so low ... 153, when running it goes up to 181. i thought i pushed hard on the bike. is that normal?
pregame- good, light snack and hydration 1.5 hrs out, 2x 1 miles ez jog (rehabbing calf). 7/10
mojo- good cuz i do vO2 better than FTP work, 8/10
execution- spot on, tho I do take it a little easier on the 'Offs', nailed the goals, got about 7min 80% after before I cut it short by a couple of min due to life stuff. 9/10
postgame- life logistics got in the way on this one. dropped Ans off and jogged 10'. But, no feet up and no post wko food for the next hour. 3/10
[10/10-perfect, 1/10-shoulda skipped the whole thing]
Based on all the posts I've read about 30/30s I was really dreading today. I felt like I had done something wrong because I didn't think the workout was bad at all. Of course, I'm on the beginner track, so I only had 2x(5x30/30). I suppose another 2 or 4 sets would change my mind a bit. I suppose I can jack it up to intermediate if I continue to find the workouts "non-killers"
I had same result as Andrew. Was thinking these would be harder than they were. Doing Intermediate OS so sets were 6 (4 x 30/30) after the 25 min WU. The plan called for the int power to be at 306 which I thought was a little low. My FTP only came in at 255 but VO2 was 336, so was thinking the int power would be up closer to the tested VO2. I did the last 2 sets closer to 320 and that felt a little more right but still felt like I should have been pushing harder. Should I be doing these harder or stick to the prescribed number? Is this just because it's still real early in the plan and the pain is yet to come? Very new to EN way so any help is appreciated.
@Duane, Looks like your VO2 number is your strength and LT your weakness. Since you hit 336 why not go for it. Your LT number will likely fall in line with training. @Andrew, I would move up. An alternative is to wait another week and see how much your power falls off before your fitness builds. @Everyone, It's all about time at VO2 max effort. Don't let your mind wander. Don't check out. Stay engaged.
Got the 6x (4x 30/30s) done this AM at 0500. First experience with TrainerRide, or more exact, half experience. The connection to my PM quit 10 minutes into the warm up so I had to rely on the joule for power and cadence. But the graphics were fun to watch, and Kim, you don't get off count (or convince yourself you've done 4 when its only been 3!). I hit the 125% and overshot it at times,in fact my VI seemed huge just trying to keep it at the number it was supposed to be. I took it a little easier on the off time-it didn't seem that bad!
Great Workout! It was very tough to me and, I wanted it to be hard and push the ladder higher.
I did the Vo2 max WO last night and knew if done correctly it would be tough. I have done cross fit 32 x (20/10 hard as possible/easy) several times in the past, and as long as you do the hard as hard as you can then it's a great WO.
I did the official 25' WU, which really gets you ready to rock. My Vo2 is currently 283. I did the 6 x (4 x 30/30 intermediate at 283++ and easy at 160-175 ranges. For me the Vo2 of 283 is upper 24mph. I can see the power and mph. I always kept myself at 283 or more. Kept it only a little above or at 283 the first couple intervals. I then began to motivate and push myself even higher in the 25-26 mph which gets me into the 300-350+ plus at times. I know 336 popped up a lot. This is on my Cybex 750c trainer so I can't get the actual avg's. One of my strengths is that I can push mysel physically and mentally on the bike very well, but not so well on the run. I expect my testing Vo2 to really climb from this training. Back in 2008 I had a great Miami Man bike time, and would like to get that speed back. Get fast now, far later!!!
After the couple min easy recovery, I did 3 miles of the mod/hard Z3 195, then 3 easy miles of recovery. I feel those miles at Z3 can be valuable in pushing yourself a little longer and strengthen your mind to push a little longer.
@ Duane/Brian, my AP tested at 236 therefore FTP is 224, but then my Vo2 was only 268, so I'm using the AP as my FTP for 236 so my Vo2 in the plan is 283 versus 268. The test for power said take 5% off AP to get FTP, but then the calculations dropped the tested Vo2 figure. I know I can hit the 283 and expect myself to work hard on increasing it. I agree that you should go for the 336 Vo2. Like the coaches mentioned, if you can hit higher numbers on the bike go for, but not on the run so much.
Question about Thursday Vo2 bike sets [MS: 2 x (5 x 30/30) @ Vo2/Zone5/Very Hard]. What’s the best way to do these sessions if using heart rate?
If I follow the official warm up I need to increase my HR by 50-60 beats in 30 seconds to hit zone 5. Despite attempting all out ‘I am going to die’ sprints each time I only managed to brush zone 5 on my final 30’’.
What’s the advice for these bike sessions if using HR? Treat these 30 seconds like HIITS sessions and don’t worry about HR? Modify warm up, so HR is already well into zone 4 before starting the 30/30s so session is more controlled and I can hit zone 5?
Sure this must have been covered somewhere but I am having trouble finding the info I want, please could someone point me in the right direction?
while doing this workout, although my HR did get to and above my Z5 level doing the intervals once I pushed my 3rd set power level even higher, I was working much higher Vo2 power to get it there. My Z3 80-85% power did not get me into my Z3 HR range on the 25' WU, but was in Z4 HR level on the post Vo2 WO miles riding at Z3 power. I guess it takes me a little longer warming up to hit the mid range HR levels, and harder for my body to get the HR back down after the Vo2 intervals. Probably normal I guess.
@ Helen, I ride as hard as can possibly ride and keep it consistent during each hard 30". I think you will hit that HR and go above it by the end of the hard 30" each time before your easy 30", and especially once you get past the 2nd set. Also be sure to not ride too easy during the 30" recovery. That easy part is critical that you recover enough to be able to ride hard enough when you are supposed to, yet not too easy. You want to be able to complete all the sets within the MS as consistent as possible while getting your HR to and above your Vo2 HR. Hope this helps.
Helen, 2 years ago I trained with HR. I ginored the HR for the Vo2 sets just built into each set alternating between high cadence and low cadence grind. Also, be sure not to go to ez during the off time. Also of note, i found these to be very cool when I was outside as the change in terrain made it an exciting workout.
I ended up doing my bike workout quite late last night. After Thai dinner...but at least that part worked out ok. Maybe I wasn't working hard enough? :-)
I did them as 3 sets of 5 x 1'/1', rather than 3 sets of 10 30s/30s. I tend to overshoot the 30/30s. Just revving up is hard for me to keep the power at the right place. The 1/1 is a little better for me that way, but even then you can see a lot of variability within each interval if you look. Target power was 300W and almost all of them are 30x.
We'll see how Saturday goes. Got my first 5' warmup data point...146 bpm for the last 5 min of the 12 min 80-85% warmup section. Should be interesting to follow that.
Question about Thursday Vo2 bike sets [MS: 2 x (5 x 30/30) @ Vo2/Zone5/Very Hard]. What’s the best way to do these sessions if using heart rate?
If I follow the official warm up I need to increase my HR by 50-60 beats in 30 seconds to hit zone 5. Despite attempting all out ‘I am going to die’ sprints each time I only managed to brush zone 5 on my final 30’’.
What’s the advice for these bike sessions if using HR? Treat these 30 seconds like HIITS sessions and don’t worry about HR? Modify warm up, so HR is already well into zone 4 before starting the 30/30s so session is more controlled and I can hit zone 5?
Sure this must have been covered somewhere but I am having trouble finding the info I want, please could someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks - Helen
Helen - I have been there. When I first started with EN I trained exclusively with HR, not power. What I did for the VO2 intervals was just to work REAL HARD -- not 'I am going to die' hard, just REAL HARD. Your heartrate lags significantly so I would never expect it to get up to the Zone 5 levels. Slow to rise, and quick to drop.
As far as targets, you can eyeball a 'speed' while on your trainer. Or just shift two gears harder than you were using for the Z3 work as part of the warmup (which is what I did when I trained exclusively with HR)
This is a situation where it is not an exact science. No need to sweat the fine details.
An EXTREMELY rough way of estimating the effort and "what it feels like" would be to take the average speed that you obtained on your FTP test and multiply it by 1.15 to 1.2 and then try to push that speed. It turns out that the resistance curve on most trainers goes harder and harder, i.e., there is some upward curvature. Hence the 1.15-1.2, and not some bigger factor.
That said, dramatic changes in tire pressure or other things that would obviously change the resistance yoru bike feels well mess up the direct relationship between speed and power.
@Andrew, We are just getting started and what feels easy now may not be so easy in a few days when you are no longer fresh, but not yet faster/fitter. I use WKO+. The ATL, Acute training load is a measure of your current fatigue. It is the average TSS, training stress score, for the last week. If you use WKO+ or training peaks check that out. That line is going up fast. I just don't want you to be surprised if your power falls off initially when you are fatigued before the fitness arrives. My instict is to say go for it! But burn out is common.
@Brian Ah -- got it. Yes, I do use WKO+ and yes, I did notice that pink line skyrocketing. I am not 100% conversant in TSS/ATL/CTL speak yet, but I'm working on it. What you say makes sense. I was going to wait and see anyway, before jacking up the intensity, but now you've convinced me. Thanks for the feedback.
i don't want to reduce run WO due to bricking, so would an hour between be a sufficient break so I can run the 40' total? What if I ran first, biked 2nd? I think it's better to do as planned, so the shortest break between bike and run would be preferred, just not sure how much time between would be okay? Thanks.
Comments
I did something wrong. I thought I got my bike information but not sure where it went or if I did it right. They dont show up in the Info part of my profile as my run test reults do. I also probabloy skipped some reading but what is the FTP? Is it just for the power meter? If I did the Heart Rate test than what do I calculate?
There were my numbers:
40mins, 153 Average HR, 168 max HR, 18 mph average, 12 miles. what goes where in the calculator .
any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
The 30/30 today definitely built up over the sets, but I hit all of them at target and really focused on keeping my effort at 65% in the OFF.
After warming up, felt better. Glad I got the work done. Now heading to bed early and focusing on recovery tomorrow -- just have to stay away from the wine.
work out - > http://tpks.ws/A3NH
Can I do VO2 only and no FTP stuff?
I also gave the new Standard Warm-up a try. That is going to take some getting used to as it is different enough from the old 3x1'(1') to count as work in and of itself.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/260564904
Cristina - FTP stands for Functional Threshold Power. You would get that number if you are using a powermeter or TrainerRoad. As you are using your Heart Rate for the training metric, you just put zeros in those fields in the data tool calculator.
After you push 'calculate', you will get a screen that shows your HR zones for the 5 training zones we use. As an example, my LTHR (Lactate Threshold HeartRate, or average HR in your case) was 168. Therefore my HR training zones are:
Kim - are you using a Garmin device? I ask b/c I program the workouts into mine. I think I can export from Training Center, but I don't know about Garmin Connect....
Anyone know if we can do that? If so, I will be happy to post.
Thank you Joe. I thought I had done that but guess my numbers were saved. My LTHR seems so low ... 153, when running it goes up to 181. i thought i pushed hard on the bike. is that normal?
pregame- good, light snack and hydration 1.5 hrs out, 2x 1 miles ez jog (rehabbing calf). 7/10
mojo- good cuz i do vO2 better than FTP work, 8/10
execution- spot on, tho I do take it a little easier on the 'Offs', nailed the goals, got about 7min 80% after before I cut it short by a couple of min due to life stuff. 9/10
postgame- life logistics got in the way on this one. dropped Ans off and jogged 10'. But, no feet up and no post wko food for the next hour. 3/10
[10/10-perfect, 1/10-shoulda skipped the whole thing]
Kim - please PM me your email address and I will send a link to the file in my DropBox account
Based on all the posts I've read about 30/30s I was really dreading today. I felt like I had done something wrong because I didn't think the workout was bad at all. Of course, I'm on the beginner track, so I only had 2x(5x30/30). I suppose another 2 or 4 sets would change my mind a bit. I suppose I can jack it up to intermediate if I continue to find the workouts "non-killers"
I had same result as Andrew. Was thinking these would be harder than they were. Doing Intermediate OS so sets were 6 (4 x 30/30) after the 25 min WU. The plan called for the int power to be at 306 which I thought was a little low. My FTP only came in at 255 but VO2 was 336, so was thinking the int power would be up closer to the tested VO2. I did the last 2 sets closer to 320 and that felt a little more right but still felt like I should have been pushing harder. Should I be doing these harder or stick to the prescribed number? Is this just because it's still real early in the plan and the pain is yet to come? Very new to EN way so any help is appreciated.
@Andrew, I would move up. An alternative is to wait another week and see how much your power falls off before your fitness builds.
@Everyone, It's all about time at VO2 max effort. Don't let your mind wander. Don't check out. Stay engaged.
Great Workout! It was very tough to me and, I wanted it to be hard and push the ladder higher.
I did the Vo2 max WO last night and knew if done correctly it would be tough. I have done cross fit 32 x (20/10 hard as possible/easy) several times in the past, and as long as you do the hard as hard as you can then it's a great WO.
I did the official 25' WU, which really gets you ready to rock. My Vo2 is currently 283. I did the 6 x (4 x 30/30 intermediate at 283++ and easy at 160-175 ranges. For me the Vo2 of 283 is upper 24mph. I can see the power and mph. I always kept myself at 283 or more. Kept it only a little above or at 283 the first couple intervals. I then began to motivate and push myself even higher in the 25-26 mph which gets me into the 300-350+ plus at times. I know 336 popped up a lot. This is on my Cybex 750c trainer so I can't get the actual avg's. One of my strengths is that I can push mysel physically and mentally on the bike very well, but not so well on the run. I expect my testing Vo2 to really climb from this training. Back in 2008 I had a great Miami Man bike time, and would like to get that speed back. Get fast now, far later!!!
After the couple min easy recovery, I did 3 miles of the mod/hard Z3 195, then 3 easy miles of recovery. I feel those miles at Z3 can be valuable in pushing yourself a little longer and strengthen your mind to push a little longer.
@ Duane/Brian, my AP tested at 236 therefore FTP is 224, but then my Vo2 was only 268, so I'm using the AP as my FTP for 236 so my Vo2 in the plan is 283 versus 268. The test for power said take 5% off AP to get FTP, but then the calculations dropped the tested Vo2 figure. I know I can hit the 283 and expect myself to work hard on increasing it. I agree that you should go for the 336 Vo2. Like the coaches mentioned, if you can hit higher numbers on the bike go for, but not on the run so much.
@Brian - What do you mean by this?
If I follow the official warm up I need to increase my HR by 50-60 beats in 30 seconds to hit zone 5. Despite attempting all out ‘I am going to die’ sprints each time I only managed to brush zone 5 on my final 30’’.
What’s the advice for these bike sessions if using HR? Treat these 30 seconds like HIITS sessions and don’t worry about HR? Modify warm up, so HR is already well into zone 4 before starting the 30/30s so session is more controlled and I can hit zone 5?
Sure this must have been covered somewhere but I am having trouble finding the info I want, please could someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks - Helen
Interesting note for my workout last night based on POWER vs HR.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/260562174
while doing this workout, although my HR did get to and above my Z5 level doing the intervals once I pushed my 3rd set power level even higher, I was working much higher Vo2 power to get it there. My Z3 80-85% power did not get me into my Z3 HR range on the 25' WU, but was in Z4 HR level on the post Vo2 WO miles riding at Z3 power. I guess it takes me a little longer warming up to hit the mid range HR levels, and harder for my body to get the HR back down after the Vo2 intervals. Probably normal I guess.
Helen, 2 years ago I trained with HR. I ginored the HR for the Vo2 sets just built into each set alternating between high cadence and low cadence grind. Also, be sure not to go to ez during the off time. Also of note, i found these to be very cool when I was outside as the change in terrain made it an exciting workout.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/260690324
I did them as 3 sets of 5 x 1'/1', rather than 3 sets of 10 30s/30s. I tend to overshoot the 30/30s. Just revving up is hard for me to keep the power at the right place. The 1/1 is a little better for me that way, but even then you can see a lot of variability within each interval if you look. Target power was 300W and almost all of them are 30x.
We'll see how Saturday goes. Got my first 5' warmup data point...146 bpm for the last 5 min of the 12 min 80-85% warmup section. Should be interesting to follow that.
Helen - I have been there. When I first started with EN I trained exclusively with HR, not power. What I did for the VO2 intervals was just to work REAL HARD -- not 'I am going to die' hard, just REAL HARD. Your heartrate lags significantly so I would never expect it to get up to the Zone 5 levels. Slow to rise, and quick to drop.
As far as targets, you can eyeball a 'speed' while on your trainer. Or just shift two gears harder than you were using for the Z3 work as part of the warmup (which is what I did when I trained exclusively with HR)
This is a situation where it is not an exact science. No need to sweat the fine details.
An EXTREMELY rough way of estimating the effort and "what it feels like" would be to take the average speed that you obtained on your FTP test and multiply it by 1.15 to 1.2 and then try to push that speed. It turns out that the resistance curve on most trainers goes harder and harder, i.e., there is some upward curvature. Hence the 1.15-1.2, and not some bigger factor.
That said, dramatic changes in tire pressure or other things that would obviously change the resistance yoru bike feels well mess up the direct relationship between speed and power.
@Brian Ah -- got it. Yes, I do use WKO+ and yes, I did notice that pink line skyrocketing. I am not 100% conversant in TSS/ATL/CTL speak yet, but I'm working on it. What you say makes sense. I was going to wait and see anyway, before jacking up the intensity, but now you've convinced me. Thanks for the feedback.
Question on Sat WO #1 & 2?
i don't want to reduce run WO due to bricking, so would an hour between be a sufficient break so I can run the 40' total? What if I ran first, biked 2nd? I think it's better to do as planned, so the shortest break between bike and run would be preferred, just not sure how much time between would be okay? Thanks.