Nov OS Week 11 Bike Thread

Gordon Cherwoniak

Hard to believe there is only 4 weeks left.  We keep getting large doses of FTP and VO2 work.  I need to do a better job of getting rest this week to help my workouts.

Gordon

Jay Lakamp

I hear'd ja, tru dat!

 

benvanmarcke

I'm rearranging my workouts as of this week, since masters swim starts on Tuesday morning. That means the Thursday bike shifts to Monday and Tuesday brick moves to Thursday. Still replacing VO2 with Sweet Spot training so looking at doing 2 x 20' at 90% FTP around 6am in the morning in order to have max recovery for Tuesday's swim training (which scares the crap out of me :-D )

benvanmarcke

Well today was tough, got up early to get my intervals done. 2 x 20' at 90% FTP, did them both at an IF of 0.91. The second interval was hard to get into, after the 3' rest I gave myself i struggled to get into a rhythm. I felt like I had to push harder and ride at a higher cadence (and speed) to keep the power numbers up. Analysis afterwards showed I was correct, both intervals had identical NP (271 watts) but interval 1 was done with a speed of 23.9mph and cadence of 94. Interval 2 was done at 24.5mph and cadence 97. Weird!

It seems my trainer's resistance dropped a bit between intervals 1 and 2 (within the first interval there is no obvious power drop / cadence increase). Bizarre!

russG

Way to get it done, Ben!

Question for anyone who has thoughts on the matter:

Tomorrow we're to do 10/18/10.  Over the weekend it was 18/18/8.  I've seen 12/12/8... I think I saw a post - may have been from Mr. Truscott - that the bottom line is really time-at-power and we can slice differently if we want to.

I usually operate on the assumption that coaches are all-knowing and do EVERYTHING for a specific reason supported by current ground-breaking research, and I plan to do 10/18/10 in the morning... but

Does the length and order of individual intervals really matter, or is it simply a matter of slicing the time into manageable and interesting pieces?  Why wouldn't I take those 38 minutes and go for 13/13/12?

I'll update this post in the morning with my actual ride - best to you all!

Peter Wick

I think they're setting up the workouts to balance the drive for more and more minutes at FTP as the OS goes on with the strain it is putting us through. What was your last Tuesday's workout? Tomorrow's workout is a minute less at FTP than the Tues W10 workout but it has a long interval in the middle instead of 3 x 15. I think it is a move to get a long interval in there among the total time. I'm going to do my 12-20-12 as scheduled.

I also wonder if the Tuesday workouts might be getting curtailed a little now that we're moving to running VO2max workouts on Wednesday and the ever-more-challenging Thursday bike VO2max sessions.

Al Truscott

 @ Russell...In past years, RnP have admitted that, yes, there reallly are only so many waysnyou can slice FTP intervals, and total time trumps specificty of interval length. Coach R never trains indoors, and so all his FTP intervals are of variable length on climbs behind his hometown. That said, I think there is something to be gained by aiming for those longer intervals, from both a mental and physical perspective. 

On another note, I was planning on doing last weekend's FTP interval ride Sunday afternoon while watching the Seahawks fulfill their destiny vs the Redskins. I think my 7 yr old CompuTrainer must have been channeling RG III' s knee, because the load generator suddenly locked up and would only operate at one resistence, bascially about 70-80% of my FTP. I've spent hours and hours yesterday and today trouble shooting it, and have decided I do not want to retain my relationship with RacerMate. If a $42 cable does not solve the issues, then it's $575 for another load generator &/or $375 for a controller. Anyway I slice it, that's not something I'll do for a machine in which I find more to curse than praise. So I will go with a Tacx Bushido' which also has a programmable load generator, but was designed in the 2nd decade of the 21st century,and so is completely wireless, speaks ANT+, and has software that at least looks appealing. Cost = CT Load generator + controller DC Rainmaker gives it a thumbs' up.

In the meantime, I might be able to do some outdoor workouts if it is not raining or snowing ( what are are the odds of that, here?),or just pedal @ SS for the total time of the workout.

[Deleted User]

Good luck with those odds Al...I live in North Bend, East of Seattle..and it's always raining/snowing here!..BIG bummer on the computrainer....good luck.

ezellrh

FTP done and dusted. 12/20/12 on 0.97, 0.97, and 0.98. Hard but bearable. I think Coach R picked those particular time intervals because he knew I couldn't do 13/21/13 this morning. Looking forward to a nice trail run today!

Good luck everyone!

russG

in!

will post stats latr

off too other work!

--

10/18/11 (* got lost in the music and forgot to look at the timer..) at 98, 99, 98.

Added a couple of spin-ups to hit those high cadences and shake the rust off.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/150359

WAY better for me than the last FTP workout.

Looking forward to the easy PM run in the sun!

-- ok - time to pay attention to other work - Way to get it done everyone!

Scott Giljum

Went BOOM on the bike today. It took a bit to get in the zone and be able to hold it, but by the 18 min set, I was pretty locked in. A good hour. I will get the run in over lunch. Have a great one all!

Naomi Gilker

Interesting to read that there may not be specific magic/logic to the length of the intervals. Means more flexibility, I like that.

I think my legs are still feeling the w/o from this past weekend. It was a little hard getting to/staying within my zones but I finished the 10/18/10 and rode for the full 70min so I'm happy.

Run will be for tonight after work. It's supposed to go up to above freezing today and I hope it stays that warm for my run.

Bill McKinney

That was not the kind and gently welcome back I was looking for. Most of the last 2 weeks have been off the bike. Have FINALLY managed to get some good skiing in, though. Just realized that I've got a 33K race and a 50K race coming up in the next 7 weeks, so skiing will be taking the place of running for a while and probably some biking too. Today was definitely ugly...plan said 12/20/12. I did 2 x 15' @ ~97-98% then gave in and did 2 x 5' @ 85/90%. Not terrible I guess, but a good 14 minutes short on the FT time. Better luck Thursday I guess!

Keep up the good work everyone!

Satish Punna

Pulled myself out of bed at 5 to get the workout in, got set up and started pedalling and PT read 2w !.  WTF.  Got off bike, swore, found a spare battery (whew) changed PT battery (this was my first thought, it was early).  Got back on bike, started pedalling easy, now 330w.  Swore some more, didn't know what to do (was thinking why me, should've stayed in bed etc etc), then had a brainwave (gel must have kicked in) and got out my 910xt and calibrated the PT. This did the trick and I was off to the races (but 25 minutes late).  Got the workout in, 10/18/10 at .99/1.0/1.0 and finished off with 8 minutes at 0.85.  Late for work, but glad I got er done.  Stupid powertap. 

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/150104

Kkaufer

 BOOM, BOOM and BOOM! Was a bit apprehensive as I got on bike since my HR was slightly higher than usual. Also noticed during warmup it took me a bit longer to hit z3, so I eased into the intervals, starting out at the lower levels of z4 and gradually increasing to the higher end of the target.  Got all three done really well, nocked out the t-run afterwards.  Now for some hard rest (don't tell anyone: I'm wearing compression tights underneath my suit at work today!), because I'm really, really scared of tomorrow's run workout..... 

 

@ Satish - sorry to read about your PT. Glad you were able to find a work around and still go BOOM!

spabblington

That one hurt - a lot. I think I am finally starting to feel the accumulation of the work from the last 10 weeks. Will get the run in tonight.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/150135

@Al - hopefully the $42 cable will work. @Satish - wow! Way to stay focused and get er done!

Gordon Cherwoniak

@ Russell - I was actually thinking about this over the last couple workouts and as mentioned there are only so many way's you can slice it.  I also find the longer intervals more challenging so breaking down the intervals is the workout triage when you can't make it. 

I was thinking about shifting my workout today which was 12/20/12 but wanted to hit the 20' interval so pushed through that and had to do 2X6 on the end.  I think this was preferable to 12/12/10/10 or evening out the intervals at 15/15/14.  I find that if I take more rest 4' for the 12' intervals and 3' for the 10' intervals my HR does not get as high, legs don't get as fatigued and am probalby not pushing my body to adapt on the upper end.  As for shifting the longer interval first say 18/10/10, I'd have to dig a little deeper to do the 18' last after the first two 10' intervals so a slightly tougher or much tougher workout depending on the day.

I got in my workout - 12/20/6/6 at .97/.97/.95/.98.

Gordon

Peter Wick

Well, if ya really want to maximize the push, you could make it a 12, 12, 20 workout... Just thinking about that makes me shiver. Anyway, it is time to get down there and work!

russG

Peter - Or could just do one nice 38m block at 99% (for those of us in Intermediate)...

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on interval slicing.

In the end, did exactly what the coaches wrote, because they are all-knowing and do everything for a reason supported by current ground-breaking research, and besides, why wouldn't I, unless I just couldn't keep it goin', which happens sometimes, but I'm rambling now -

10/18/11 at 98%, 99%, 98%.  The 11 was by accident - got lost in the music - I'll have to make sure I remember to stop after the finish line when I'm racing...

I'm liking the 12m at 80-85% as part of the warm-up - it's easy enough that I relax and connect with my rhythm, and it definitely sets me up for the work intervals.

Way to get it in, everyone - have a great day - see you on the run thread later on

Peter Wick

Yeesh! I got it done but it started to get a little sketchy at the end. 1.02, 1.01 and 1.0 and I did them in order. I decided to gear down in the final couple minutes of the 2nd and 3rd intervals to simulate hilltopping in a road race but that forced me to have to recover more than usual by dropping power way down for a few seconds. I know that isn't the best way to ride tri's but I keep forgetting that in the moment. I'm going to have to work on discipline there.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/150463

See ya later after the run.

[Deleted User]

Wow you guys are rocking the house! I was hurting today. 1/2 way through the 15 min interval...I stopped and changed my music and then kept going. Used that as an excuse to take a break.
Clearly I am tired as Sat I was way better on the 2X15s. I am wondering if nutrition is playing a part...b/w Sat and today...i.e. Sat mid day workout, today early am workout with no breakfast. Today, I drank profrom and a gel during but nothing before...outta bed and on the trainer.

Today: .97 (10min), .95 (15 min), .94(10 min)
Sat: .99 (15 min), .98 (15 min), 1.0(8 min)

Hit the run....with wobble legs..but got it done.

Peter Wick

Way to hang in there, Ann! As for nutrition, now that things are gettin' real I would definitely fuel up with energy replacement nutrition ANDDDDDDD electrolytes. I made a joke about The Great Salt Lake in my basement but it wasn't that much of a joke. If I'm going to be going longer than 1 hour I fuel up with Generation UCAN mix (I'm a diabetic). Since these workouts are taking you into Z4 and well beyond the intensity and duration that mere fat-burning alone can support you should respect that. At least get some electrolytes in there.

Don't skimp on the recovery nutrition either!

[Deleted User]

Thanks Peter....good point on electrolytes...esp inside since that increases the sweat factor! Yes, learning that I might need to get up a wee bit earlier to suck down something before getting on the bike for these longer / harder sessions...or try it after work instead of first thing.

aarmau

Tough one today. Reading comments glad to see I was not alone in these thoughts

http://coffeeforthebrain.blogspot.com/2013/01/out-season-week-11-tuesday-ftp-ride.html

Eric Rueppel

Thanks Peter for the nutrition reminder as these rides get past 60 min. I feel myself needing fuel to keep pushing. All OS when rides only being around an hour it was easy to just drink water. Now as total training time( bike and run) are maxing out at 2hrs plus nutrition is definitely needed. I have just an hour of work left then I'm going to hit those intervals hard!

Peter Wick

Those longer workouts snuck up on me a few weeks back. I thought I could handle those Saturdays on just water after the UCAN mix but I soon learned that I was wrong. Now I add in some Endurolytes or Salt stick caps. Keep at it everyone! Better to learn these lessons in January instead of May or later.

Mike Weinmann

i'm traveling this week and so needed to go to a spin bike and the local fitness center. i showed up at the gym with enough time to finish my intervals prior to the start of the morning spin class, but midway thru the 18' min interval (and 25 minutes before the class started!), someone came in and demanded the bike that they had reserved, which happened to be the one i had chosen out of 40 bikes!. so annoying, but i just hopped off, took my 4' of rest of the way to another bike and rejiggered the rest of the intervals to get in my total WORK time

this spin bike actually provided a power reading, but of course, it was totally off from my PT in the pain cave. It took me awhile to calibrate the readings using my HR and RPE, but I think I got pretty close...

ended up doing 1x10', 1x7', 1x21'(!) at avg HR of 131, 134 & 146. i looked back at last week's 3x15' and my avg HR was around 140-142, so i think i undercooked the first two and was pretty close on the last one

looking forward to exploring San Francisco a bit during tonight's run and then hitting the intervals tomorrow hard.

great job all!

Joe Hallatschek

My it has certainly been a long day! Woke up earlier than normal at 0417 and decided to just get on with the day and was on the trainer by 0515. Which was a really good idea since today's workout was 72' and I like getting out before the school buses invade my sub-division!

1 X 12'(4'); 1 X 20'(4') and 1 X 12'(4') all at Z4. For the first two, I kept the AVSPD and watched my AVHR float past Z4. For the last one, I was pretty smoked and I went into the small chainring and upped the rpms to get the AVHR up in the Z4.

I thought I would just aqua-jog today for 40' in-lieu of a treadmill run during lunch since it was raining hard. But, I hit the treadmill anyway and kept it at Z1. Great conversations about the duration of the bike intervals. Last year when the interval went above 15', I would break it up. This year I am trying to keep the mental focus and push on through. So far, my testing is better than last year and that is the only change I have made.

William Crawford

Finished the bike this morning and hit my goal numbers. I actually felt stronger after the first 10 minute interval. It will be my last bike workout for a week as I am off to Disney tomorrow with the family to complete the Goofy Challenge.

Peter Wick

Hey, good luck down there being Goofy. I'll be thinking good thoughts for ya.

William Crawford

Thank you.