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Jan OS Week 3 Bike thread

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  • I knew I was a bit of a weirdo when i spent a lot of a very busy day thinking to myself that I was going to enjoy tonight's VO2 set and just that little edge of pain for an hour. Needless to say, I did not discuss this with the dean, our job candidates, or any of several physics profs I ran into today...



    This week, I've been kind of testing the water a little to see if there's been some improvement. So far so good. Nothing crazy, but maybe a few real watts.



    Like Matt, I do these as sets of 5 1'/1', but I'm not as good as he is about keeping the recovery watts up. Maybe I should be, but I have taken the attitude that if I'm spinning and recovering, that's probably good enough. Anyway, set 2 and 3 are clearly a step up from set 1, with set 3 nosing set to by a bit of Poisson noise....



    Meaured FTP was 248. For purposes of easy math, I call that 250, so the target is 300.



    Set 1: 309, 317, 319, 319, 313

    Set 2: 312, 319, 319, 322, 326

    Set 3: 314, 321, 318, 322, 327

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/265692474  NP 238, IF 0,95 overall.  HR was above threshold for the peaks of the last set.



    What this probably proves is that I have more work to do on the FTP side....

  •  I think I also need to re-test my FTP - maybe one of the WSM can comment on that image

    My goal for the VO2 was 355W but I could hit that so easily that I increased the effort a little 


    HR 151 151 152 154 155 152
    Power 386 353 358 368 372 360
                 
    HR 151 154 154 155 155 158
    Power 361 360 361 357 361 359
                 
    HR 152 159 157 161 158 159
    Power 363 368 367 379 369 369
                 
    HR 156 161 161 162 160 164
    Power 363 373 373 375 360 370
                 
    HR 157 164 161 162 161 164
    Power 358 373 377 362 359 390

     

  • So I just recieved as a Christmas gift to myself a new Kurt Kinetic trainer. I put my bike on it Thursday morning for my little old 30/30's and boom - averaged between 50-70 watts MORE the entire ride.

    This makes me feel so much better since on my old trainer (a CycleOps magnetic) my power was ~ 60 watts LESS than my power from last year (however I had tested on a computrainer all season long and did not have my own power tap). Now I do everything through trainer road and while I expected to see a difference, 60Watts is significant difference.

    The numbers I was pulling Thursday are way more realistic to what I was expecting!

    Since I am dealing with virtual power - I always keep my tire at 120psi and turn the knob on the trainer the exact same rotations to eliminate some of the variation in the set up.

    I know that work is work and I have been working hard no matter the number - now I am happy to see something in the 200's versus the 140's. I should re-power test to get the new numbers so that I am not showing some off the charts power gains at week 8!

    So question for the JANOS peeps - when should I throw in that power test? On a Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday? I would assume to replace one of the workouts with the test, correct?
  • Posted By Jenniferlyn Kryvicky on 25 Jan 2013 10:13 AM

    .......Now I do everything through trainer road and while I expected to see a difference, 60Watts is significant difference.



    .......So question for the JANOS peeps - when should I throw in that power test? On a Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday? I would assume to replace one of the workouts with the test, correct?

    Two questions:

    • Did you change the device to a KurtKinetic under your profile in TrainerRoad?
    • What plan are you in?

    If you did change the device, and the numbers are that different, I would suggest you post a note in the TrainerRoad thread so Nate and Reid can investigate why the power curves are so different.

    I ask about the plan b/c the BEG has next Tuesday's ride at 2x10, INT 2x12, ADV 2x20.  This Saturday's workouts are identical for BEG and INT, the ADV plan has slightly longer FTP intervals.  I know that I need to retest, and I am going to do so on Tuesday.  I will ride this weekend's ride a little 'hot', but want to definitely get in the Z3 work.



     

  • Posted By Jenniferlyn Kryvicky on 25 Jan 2013 10:13 AM

    So I just recieved as a Christmas gift to myself a new Kurt Kinetic trainer. I put my bike on it Thursday morning for my little old 30/30's and boom - averaged between 50-70 watts MORE the entire ride.



    This makes me feel so much better since on my old trainer (a CycleOps magnetic) my power was ~ 60 watts LESS than my power from last year (however I had tested on a computrainer all season long and did not have my own power tap). Now I do everything through trainer road and while I expected to see a difference, 60Watts is significant difference.



    The numbers I was pulling Thursday are way more realistic to what I was expecting!



    Since I am dealing with virtual power - I always keep my tire at 120psi and turn the knob on the trainer the exact same rotations to eliminate some of the variation in the set up.



    I know that work is work and I have been working hard no matter the number - now I am happy to see something in the 200's versus the 140's. I should re-power test to get the new numbers so that I am not showing some off the charts power gains at week 8!



    So question for the JANOS peeps - when should I throw in that power test? On a Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday? I would assume to replace one of the workouts with the test, correct?


    I have to agree with Joe-make sure you changed everything over in TR.  
    That is quite a significant difference in power #'s from one trainer to another!!!  
    Most peeps while on the trainer can be up to 25 watts lower then their typical outside FTP. For example my last test outside was 270 and inside I am 250. 
    You are training with virtual power which is something I have never did but I am sure there is a bell curve somewhere in there and it appears you are checking your tire pressure and making sure the same amount of resisitance is applied to the trainer.  Hmmmm.  Does it feel like you are working that much harder?  I would keep a log over the next few rides and report back any significant concerns....


     

  • Posted By Stefan Reiter on 25 Jan 2013 02:32 AM

     I think I also need to re-test my FTP - maybe one of the WSM can comment on that

    My goal for the VO2 was 355W but I could hit that so easily that I increased the effort a little 


    HR 151 151 152 154 155 152
    Power 386 353 358 368 372 360
                 
    HR 151 154 154 155 155 158
    Power 361 360 361 357 361 359
                 
    HR 152 159 157 161 158 159
    Power 363 368 367 379 369 369
                 
    HR 156 161 161 162 160 164
    Power 363 373 373 375 360 370
                 
    HR 157 164 161 162 161 164
    Power 358 373 377 362 359 390

     



    Stefan-

    I would agree 100% you should retest this coming Tuesday of you feel up to it.  Your numbers show that you will be scoring a new FTP.  My guess which is only a guess is you are looking at a 10-15 watt jump.  

    I am like you my VO Max increases significantly then comes my FTP which is normal I believe for most people.  

    Tear it up my friend and best of luck.  

  • Posted By William Jenks on 24 Jan 2013 11:26 PM

    I knew I was a bit of a weirdo when i spent a lot of a very busy day thinking to myself that I was going to enjoy tonight's VO2 set and just that little edge of pain for an hour. Needless to say, I did not discuss this with the dean, our job candidates, or any of several physics profs I ran into today...



    This week, I've been kind of testing the water a little to see if there's been some improvement. So far so good. Nothing crazy, but maybe a few real watts.



    Like Matt, I do these as sets of 5 1'/1', but I'm not as good as he is about keeping the recovery watts up. Maybe I should be, but I have taken the attitude that if I'm spinning and recovering, that's probably good enough. Anyway, set 2 and 3 are clearly a step up from set 1, with set 3 nosing set to by a bit of Poisson noise....



    Meaured FTP was 248. For purposes of easy math, I call that 250, so the target is 300.



    Set 1: 309, 317, 319, 319, 313

    Set 2: 312, 319, 319, 322, 326

    Set 3: 314, 321, 318, 322, 327

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/265692474  NP 238, IF 0,95 overall.  HR was above threshold for the peaks of the last set.



    What this probably proves is that I have more work to do on the FTP side....



    Mr. William Jenks-

    My friend it appears you need to re test this Tuesday also.  Nice freaking numbers!!!!!  I also see a significant bump in your FTP.  If I remember right last year when you did a bike block you were pushing an FTP of close to 270.  Is that correct???  

    It might be JAN OS week 4 re test week for several people and it appears Tuesday after a day off would be the day to tear it up.  Heck I might even have to jump on the wagon and just see where I land.

  • Posted By Joe Matchette on 25 Jan 2013 10:28 AM

    Two questions:

    • Did you change the device to a KurtKinetic under your profile in TrainerRoad?
    • What plan are you in?

    If you did change the device, and the numbers are that different, I would suggest you post a note in the TrainerRoad thread so Nate and Reid can investigate why the power curves are so different.

    I ask about the plan b/c the BEG has next Tuesday's ride at 2x10, INT 2x12, ADV 2x20.  This Saturday's workouts are identical for BEG and INT, the ADV plan has slightly longer FTP intervals.  I know that I need to retest, and I am going to do so on Tuesday.  I will ride this weekend's ride a little 'hot', but want to definitely get in the Z3 work.



     





     

    Joe:  I changed the device in TR from my magnetic to the new Road machine, and I am in the Intermediate OS plan.  I did the 4 x (6x 30/30) and this difference was against the last time I did the 30/30 workout - again same tire pressure, same twists of the knob, but totally different trainers.

  • Posted By Jenniferlyn Kryvicky on 25 Jan 2013 02:59 PM

    Joe:  I changed the device in TR from my magnetic to the new Road machine, and I am in the Intermediate OS plan.  I did the 4 x (6x 30/30) and this difference was against the last time I did the 30/30 workout - again same tire pressure, same twists of the knob, but totally different trainers.



    Jenniferlyn - I find the 'delta' of 60W suspicious... +/- 10W -- sure...but +/- 60W is a few standard deviations outside the norm.   I think a note to the TR guys is warranted for this.  They can look at your rides in detail and see how they varied.

    -- I am curious:  how much did your cadence and/or displayed MPH differ?

    Bottom line is this: If it were me, I would retest on TUES instead of the FTP work.  For this weekend's ride, just give it a go either by manually adjusting your FTP value inside TrainerRoad, or go by feel and see what values you get.

  • Carl-

    Thanks for the encouragement. Last year, i was training on the road bike in the winter, and indeed I did get up to 270+ right at the end. My numbers are always a bit lower on the TT bike and a bit lower outdoor than indoor. This year, I am trying a different tack than last year, and using the TT bike exclusively...but just with it tipped up a bit so I don't keep killing my neck to look at the TV. :-) I don't know what the exact delta should be, but I don't think my 250 (ok, 248) on the TT is as far away from the 270 on the road bike as it sounds.

    That said, I've been pretty consistent over the years hitting somewhere around 125% when I work those hard... and those are just a little over 125%.

    Not sure if I'll test again, but I will be "testing the waters" to see what the FTP numbers feel like if I push it a few extra watts. I have a crazy life/work schedule the next couple weeks, and I like to have a day of mental calm to test on if I'm doing it right. :-) We'll see how the weekend goes.
  • Stefan, if your VO2 intervals well above 120% of what your FTP tests at, and you aren't feeling like you dug a hole, there's no harm in testing again instead of the Tuesday ride, like Carl said. If you still test at the same place, you might consider doing the Tuesday ride on Thursday again every other week because you want to bring your FTP up to where your VO2 indicates it might be...and lifting the VO2 isn't as important.
  • Did my Sat bike tonight and tomorrow's run in the morning before heading to Miami for the HM. Did my first advanced plan WKO.

    5’ easy(170), 3’ standing @ big gear/low cadence (210), 2’ easy (175), then 12’ at 80-85%/Zone3/ModHard (200/205/210), then 3’ easy (175). MS: 2 x 12' (4') @ 95-100%/224 - 236/Hard (225/230/235) & (225/230/235/240). MS2: 2 x 15' (2') @ 80-85%/188 - 200/Mod-Hard (200/205/210/215/220) & (200/205/210/215/220/225/230/235 - 17.5' instead of 15'). Cool down rest of mile 34 & 35 @ 175-140. The increased watts per interval are equally divided within the set, such as every 5' on the WU 12', every 4' on the first MS 12', every 3' on the 2nd MS, every 3' on the first MS2, and then every 2.5' on the 2nd MS2 plus added 2.5' on the 2nd MS2.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/...0Gc.mailto

  • All bikes went as planned. Thur I could really feel my legs on the intervals, but met all goals.
  • Bike ride completed a short while ago. ...and it was too easy.  Today's ride just reinforced my decision to retest FTP on Tuesday.  Here's the numbers:

     

    12'(4') @z4 – NP: 243 (IF 1.027), VI 1.00, HR 148avg / 155max

    12'(4') @z4 – NP: 262 (IF 1.104), VI 1.00, HR 156avg / 162max  (<---162 is ever so barely in my Z4 Range)</div>
    -------

    15'(2') @z3 – NP: 207 (IF 0.872), VI 1.00, HR 140avg / 145max

    15'(2') @z3 – NP: 201 (IF 0.996), VI 1.03, HR 144avg / 167max

    - I added some progressively harder work -- 250/260/270/280/290, etc -- for the last 1/2 of the second ABP set.  I wanted to see at what point my HR would get into solid Z4.

    Off to Toys "R Us with my son for some Lego Chima tournament thing.  Trying to keep the KAUs (Kid Approval Units) up as high as possible.

    Hope everyone enjoys the weekend!

  • @Joe - I like "KAUs". I guess I need to work on my DAUs. (Dog approval units) LOL

    Today was rough. FTP is accurate, that's for sure! Or maybe it was just a bad day. I usually am spunky and energized after Sat. am WKO but I just feel like a nap today. Hit the targets though:

    10' @ .99IF, 10' @ .96IF
    15' @ .81IF, 15' @ .82 IF

    Total ride time about an hour @ .846IF, 16mi.

    Prior to using TR, I wouldn't reach for any specific target (ie 60-65%) in between intervals, except for the VO2 work. I wonder if this might be making it feel harder? Anyone else have this experience? I may try to do "whatever" for my rest in between intervals next time and see if the work itself goes smoother....

    Run done on target, 2.3mi in 25 mins.
  • Good solid brick today. Here are the numbers;

    10:00 @ IF: 0.963; VI = 1 ; Norm Power: 192
    10:00 @ IF: 0.969; VI = 1 ; Norm Power: 193

    15:00 @IF: 0.801; VI = 1 ; Norm Power:159
    15:00 @IF: 0.815; VI = 1 ; Norm Power:162

    Total ride time 1:12 TSS: 81.7 ; IF 0.832; Norm Power: 166 ;VI: 1.08

    Hit my numbers on the run, now to clean up, eat and rest before taking significant other out for dinner this evening :-)






  • Super happy with today's brick, although there was an interesting hiccup along the way. Knocked out the first 10' interval at 235W (target 222W; last week 222W), 2 minutes into the second 10' interval my Garmin 310XT beeps that power is too low. I look down to see that power is at ZERO. I figure the battery has chosen this time to conk out, so I hop off and swap out training tire for race wheel (Zipp 808) and jump back into it. RPE felt substantially lower with the race wheel on and I was able to hit 235W again but with a markedly lower HR (146 rather than 159). I hadn't expected the wheel switch to have such a significant impact given that I was on the trainer in my basement and not dealing with wind/aerodynamic issues. I went on to crush the two 15' Z3 intervals @ 214W and 215W (target range 177-188). Again, heart rate was in the 141-144 range.



    Quick change and out for the run. Roads were slippery and traction was a little tough, but the sunshine was very pleasant (should've grabbed sunglasses). I went for 35 mins and came in under targeted paces (Out = 7:58 [target: 8:15]; Back = 7:45 [target: 7:54])



    I hope everyone out there in the EN is having a good weekend!

  • Posted By Joe Matchette on 26 Jan 2013 09:39 AM

    Today's ride just reinforced my decision to retest FTP on Tuesday.

    12'(4') @z4 – NP: 262 (IF 1.104), VI 1.00, HR 156avg / 162max  (<---162 is ever so barely in my Z4 Range)</div>

    Off to Toys "R Us with my son for some Lego Chima tournament thing.  Trying to keep the KAUs (Kid Approval Units) up as high as possible.

    We'll all be rooting for you on Tuesday for sure!!!

     

    Have fun with the Lego...I'm going for some KAUs in about half an hour...multiple birthday parties I have to accompany my kids to on the circuit today...

  • Strong brick this morning. The movie was "Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark" (the original…boy does Harrison Ford look young!), although I decided that the movie has too much plot to be great for an FTP ride. But it was a very good workout nonetheless with extremely strong FTP numbers (so strong, in fact, that I wondered if my powermeter was well-calibrated, although my HR got pretty high so I was WORKING no question).

    Bike – overall 86' @ NP 223, IF 0.933. Full warmup of 10' easy/z1 then 3x3'(1')@z3. Then the main set:

     

    12'(4') @z4 – NP: 261 (IF 1.093), VI 1.00, HR 166/175, cad 91

    12'(4') @z4 – NP: 262 (IF 1.097), VI 1.00, HR 173/181, cad 91

    -------

    15'(2') @z3 – NP: 223 (IF 0.933), VI 1.00, HR 167/170, cad 91

    15'(2') @z3 – NP: 225 (IF 0.940), VI 1.00, HR 163/166, cad 91

     


     

    The brick was likewise strong. Overall 3.54 miles in 23:34, 6:39 average pace. As usual I built into it over the course of the run, and the HR data was really messed up at the beginning of the run. This time low instead of spiking high. Go figure.

     

    Split


    Distance


    Avg Pace


    1


    0.43


    6:40


    2


    0.49


    6:48


    3


    0.54


    6:45


    4


    0.50


    6:42


    5


    0.25


    6:39


    6


    0.74


    6:38


    7


    0.60


    6:26


     


     
  • Matt - are you planning to re-test on Tuesday with me?

    I don't know how you get your runs done there in the city. Crosswalks and traffic lights must make keeping a pace rather difficult.
  • Y'all feel free to test away, but, I don't get it. You got a baseline, do the work, and in a couple of weeks you get another chance to reset that baseline.

    It's my opinion (just throwing my 2 cents out there), that if I'm fit enough to power thru a couple of workouts that don't leave me shaking (let's say that it felt like work during, but the recovery was fast and I quickly forget the 'work' feeling, therefore, I interpret the workout as too ez), then that was a strong workout that is gonna leave me fresher and ready for the next day, and day after, and day after. Cuz, there's more work headed this way. I try to remember that just cuz I felt really good today, maybe even all week, that I have to be able to knock out the upcoming work.

    But, I'm a Baby Steps guy. I see my progress (maybe because of this conservative mentality) as a patient upward/consistent slope, as opposed to taking big leaps up.

    Again, just looking at the other side of the coin, so that all the newbies don't feel pressured to be testing after every successful workout.

    (However, I have read that some coaches have their clients do a Benchmark Test every week)



    anyhoo....

    knocked out the prescribed bike....
    25' w/u with 12' of z3
    2x 10'(4') at .96
    2x 15'(2') z3

    punched out some upper body, before doing a 30' brick run.
  • FTP bike done this morning early. IF's of 1.02, 1.01, 0.86, 0.85. Definitely not a basket ride, but not a tongue-on-the-floor ride, either. Being an OS and power newbie, I'm just going to stick with the plan unless things just get stupid easy. But I seriously doubt that is going to happen.

    Headed out for the run in a little bit - very excited to be running outside for a change. And it's sunny!
  • First brick of the year for me. I did "Hell Hath No Fury" (2x20) instead of 2x12' + 2x15'. I'm gonna try the "Tour of Sufferlandria" for 9 days. Quick change and went for a 5k.



    BIKE:

    Time: 1:15:00 NP: 230; IF .90

    1st 20' NP: 249 (1.0)

    2nd 20' NP: 243 (0.98)



    RUN:

    Distance: 3.1 miles

    Time: 24:32 (8:07, 7:56, 7:45)

  • Posted By Joe Matchette on 26 Jan 2013 11:53 AM

    Matt - are you planning to re-test on Tuesday with me?



    I don't know how you get your runs done there in the city. Crosswalks and traffic lights must make keeping a pace rather difficult.



    No re-test for me. The only time I'll throw in an impromptu test is on a 2x20 FTP workout where I crush the first 20 and make the call to truncate the recovery interval.

    As for running in the city, my typical brick route actually has very few intersections that aren't 4-way stops. On my run this morning I averaged a 6:39 pace and only stopped once for an intersection!!

  • Life stole my run today.  (Strangely timed swim meet, Winter Formal, Birthday Party, blah, blah, blah)  I'll try to add a bit of zip to tomorrow (Sunday's) run to make up for it.  I dislike missing any workouts, but keeping it to 75 min was the right thing to do, family wise today.  

     

    I knew time was short and I wasn't going to run, so I tried to do a little extra on the bike by cutting short the warmup.

    • 3 min easy
    • 12 min about 210 (HR normal)
    • 3 min easy
    • 12 min 248 W (1.00)
    • 2 min easy
    • 12 min 253 (1.02)
    • 2 min easy
    • 15 min 210 (0.85)
    • 3 min easy
    • 15 min 210 (0.85)
    • 2 min easy
    • 10 min 251 (1.01)

     I'm not going to bother testing.  Stick with the program as much as I can, and I'm going to try to get in a very good solid run tomorrow.

  • VO2 yesterday. That was hard, ran 50 min before it.

    60 min bike today with lame attempt at intervals. Was more in the mood to ride by feel so my #'s were low. I felt great after. Then ran 3 glorious miles with my 8 year old.
  • Didn't get to do the Sat bike w/o till late Sun nite after the run w/os. Although I did fine, this definitely was my hardest workout of the OS so far, both mentally and physically - probably mostly due to fact that I did it so late on Sun.

    20" WU. Then did the 2 x 10 FTPs at 245 & 240 (FTP 240) and the 2 x 15s ABP intervals at 208 and 203. Just over 31 miles and lots of sweat. Just kept telling myself Mon was an off day (well I might swim a little).
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