Jan OS 2013 WEEK 4 RUN Thread

Carrie Chavez

 Hi everyone!! Please post your week 4 run workouts here. Post any questions you have and the group will try to answer them for you. I hope you are all feeling well.

 

Carrie

Jenniferlyn Kryvicky

In all of my years of "training", and I honestly must put training in quotes since looking back I was just putting in the time, I have never EVER looed forward to the training ahead. I am genuinely looking forward to putting in work now.

It is funny and reassuring to know that it does really take a mental change to make good on the physical changes we want. My mantra this week is that the more "pain" the more to "gain".

Run on and run strong my frends!

Carrie Chavez

Thank you Jenniferlyn for sharing that!! It is exciting when that shift happens and you see a purpose in the training and you get excited for the work as well as understanding the importance of the rest!! Excited for you.

Paul Hough

I've been remiss about posting my runs to the JOS threads in the forum. As of yesterday, I have not missed a day of running for 8 straight weeks. This morning I jogged 3 miles. Tonight, I'm going to work on my core then run 4 miles. I know that my left hip/glute/hammie are not working right and have really started increasing the core work to address what is probably some internal weakness. I'll be doing some burpies, mountain climbers and some TRX stuff tonight. I ran 60 miles last week and would like to get 60 again this week. For biking, fast then far works in this climate. For running, you have to go far in the winter before it gets too hot. E.g., it's January and we've had highs up to 85. Tomorrow will be 81-82. I cannot execute far in the Tampa summer, so I'm doing what I need to do.

Carrie Chavez

Hi Paul!! I love that you are running per your needs. 60 miles is awesome. I am slowly ramping up with the goal of 40 miles a week consistently.

Jess Withrow

Hi all! I am identifying with both Paul (being remiss) and Jenniferlyn (looking forward to the hurt!)...

I'm wondering if anyone else has found it harder to hit their paces running in the cold weather? I get in a good 15-20' w/u, but just can't seem to make my legs GO when it's time to pick up the pace. This has happened to me in temps from 18-25F. I did my 5k test on a "warmer" day - the temps were probably in the mid-30's. I'm trying to decide if it's the cold holding me back, or the fact that this is the first time in a LONG time that I've been running consistently and my legs are just feeling the fatigue a lot more quickly than they would otherwise (the last time I was running consistently was likely before I broke my foot in mid-July - I had a few runs here and there from late October through December, but they were few and far between b/c I was having orthotics made and then had to have them adjusted... and I still hate them. ;-)

Any thoughts? Advice? This Wednesday is supposed to be 60F, so I might find out then! Happy running!

morpheus

Jess, I have a tough time pushing thru to the scheduled paces this time of year, too. (Even when I'm healthy) Just too much restrictive gear on. I find that if I can hold anything close to the prescribed run, then it's a win. Cuz, I know when the double layer of leggings comes off and the thermal turtleneck goes away, I get a few sec of free speed from that alone.

Today,
I did the Tues Brick cuz I kept my run relatively short and ez (still rehabbing) yesterday and I have a really big day at work tomorrow. So Tues workout on Monday falls in between a rest Sunday and rest Tuesday before the Wed run.

So, brick run, steady out with hills, some accels, neg split back, with hills, but main thing is the land legs are getting stronger. And, I'm getting used to these Newtons.

nigelfranklyn

@ Jess - I had the same issue yesterday. It was like 22 degrees when I went out, and kept the same warm up (12 mins with strides) and started the workout.... It felt so hard to hit the first two marks, got me thinking if it was just the fatigue from the prior day or was it the cold. I finished the workout but really had the focus on keeping the cadence at 90 and trying to keep a decent stride length. At the end, I attributed it all to the just a higher mental cost of do in the work at lower temps. I hope that made sense. That said, I am would like to hear what others have to say.......

Jess Withrow

Oh good! Glad to see that it's not just me so far! The fact that there are others out there has piqued my interest... I did a quick search on something to the effect of "Physiological Impact of Running in Cold Weather," and learned that running in the cold can cause muscles to empty their glycogen stores 5-6x the normal rate, and running in the cold also increases blood levels of epinephrine, which stimulates glycogen breakdown as well. So, we're running out of energy faster....

I also stumbled on some info about the Oxygen Dissociation Curve... from what I gather, an increase in temperature weakens the oxygen-hemoglobin bond and oxygen is more readily available to cells in the body. The reverse is true in cold weather - oxygen binds tighter to hemoglobin in colder temps and isn't transferred to cells as efficiently. That's how I understand it, anyway (it supports my case and sounds good, so I'll take it!). If anyone can set me straight on this, please do!

kevinzielke

Thank you so much for posting this information, Jess!  As a firmly committed cold weather outdoor runner, my main objective has been just to build up my mental toughness by being able to remind myself during a race that I trained in windy conditions and cold temps.  I hadn't thought about the potential differences in physiological/metabolic effects...

Unknown

Great thread.  Attached is a article that pretty much sums up what has already been posted today regarding cold weather running.

http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/running-in-the-cold/

I wonder if the adaptations we may realize by training in the cold weather will result in improved performance?

 

Brian Quarton [OLD]

What is the point of the uphill strides? How are they done? Read what one of America's best running coaches has to say: http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/short-steep-swift-strength Note that Hudson wants them run at max effort. Coach Rich wants them a notch less. Also note that they are short. They are alactic. No burn, no lingering fatigue, full recovery. They build strength, stimulate the nervous system and improve economy. Do not fatigue yourself and foul up down line speedwork. Basicly weight lifting for runners. Hudson and Canova use them in every training period. This is "learning the techniques required to run fast."

Carrie Chavez

Got my Threshold pace intervals done at the track group I host today. 37 degrees. Perfect weather. Felt amazing and light! Those days are to be cherished.

warm up 2 miles
3 x 1 mile @ 6:45, 6:41, 6:40 with easy 400 recovery
cool down 2 miles

I never look at my watch until the end of the mile. I felt so so so good. I don't use a garmin for this workout and only time my intervals. Otherwise I am busy getting everyone oriented and ready for the set. Today we had 21 runners. 3 brand new track peeps. Very cool thing we have going here.

Dave Mehl

A little late to the party regarding running in the cold, but so glad I am finally reading everyone's posts. I too have had difficulty hitting the prescribed paces (or at least the faster ones) when outside. I thought it was because I tested on the treadmill and know the footpod was off a bit, so maybe my 5k time was a little on the fast side. Thus my paces are a little faster than I can actually sustain. But I seem to be able to hit them ok on the treadmill (most runs these days are indoors), so maybe there is something to this cold weather business. I'll take the confidence boost for now, though. I imagine I'll find out the reality in a few months or maybe even Week 8!

Carl

Great run this morning but short. I ran the 25 min as prescribed. Did 20 minutes at my EP then the 5 up hill strides at a 4% incline and at a 6 min/mile pace. Felt good. 3.3 miles total.

Looking forward to the 1.5 mile repeats tomorrow.

zwuba

Totally agree to that - really a very nice workout compared to real uphill sprints I did earlier this season

If of any interest here's the log -> http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/QWI...NMSEVMEPBI

@Carl - after that exhausting bike ride I would love to see an "easier" workout on the plan for tomorrow 

helen.king@invis.co.uk

Not sure anyone else here is going to be slow enough to have this problem but my Tuesday run is supposed to be at 13.00 pace and it's not happening. I'm struggling to slow down to 11.30 pace. Tomorrow, I will probably struggle with the 800m’s at 10.34 pace (struggle due to psychological rather than physical reasons I think). What do you think about walking the Tuesday sessions to hit the pace target rather than running?

William Jenks

Another wise running coach once told me that any given run should probably have only one stressor. Among these were hills, speed, distance, and temperature. Now I think that this perhaps a bit of an oversimplification, but it does make a point - that running in difficult conditions affects speed. If you can dress properly, and the footing is good, my experience with running outside in the (moderate) cold (say, down to 20 degrees) is that I can generally hit pretty close to pace, but that's because with the clothing, I'm "taking away" the fact that it's cold, more or less. If you can't do that, then of course pace will be lower per perceived effort (and probably HR).

Jess Withrow

Posted By William Jenks on 29 Jan 2013 05:29 PM

Another wise running coach once told me that any given run should probably have only one stressor. Among these were hills, speed, distance, and temperature.  

 

I like this!  

Any thoughts on the potential need for your body to "warm" the air?  I've heard that ice water is more difficult for the body to digest b/c it needs to be brought to a warmer temp first - not sure if there's truth in this, but if there is, I wonder if the case is the same for the air temp and the fact that colder air is being brought into our lungs, and we're therefore feeling the effects of internally even if we're dressed properly for the elements...  ???

Joe Matchette

Did not get the run in today ---- Work and Life got in the way. Think I will notice missing this 25 min run at IMWI? ;-)

Paul Hough

7 miles tonight. Felt OK, but was obviously flat from my FTP test this morning. I don't have a 4% grade for striders but have a short very steep grass hill -- like about 15 yards up at 40%. So I stopped there about 1 mile in and did 5 bounds up, then another 5 at about 6 miles into the run. It will have to do.

At Joe ... Right about 25.9 miles into the run at IMWI, you will feel like a load of manure dropped on you for missing that run.

zwuba

Posted By Joe Matchette on 29 Jan 2013 07:37 PM

Did not get the run in today ---- Work and Life got in the way. Think I will notice missing this 25 min run at IMWI? ;-)

Sure you will You should blame your boss for the lost 21"  ... just kiddin' 

Betsy Kantor

Thinking about the speed in cold temperatures discussion, sitting here in Arizona...I rarely, if ever, get to run in temps less than 32 and do my best running in cooler temps. All I can say is I know all to well the other extreme. My best VDOT was last March at the end of OS and I could never replicate it once the heat came on. I think i will test on the treadmill after the mercury starts hitting 100.

Betsy Kantor

and it should be about 40 degrees tomorrow AM for my run-should be perfect!

coop6

@Jess, i'm also struggling with the cold weather. I find that if I don't do every single run in the frigid weather, the ones that I do manage to get outside aren't too far off my planned paces. If I run outside every single run, by the second run of the week I'm slower. I've got decent gear, but that cold air on the lungs feels like one more thing that requires recovery time. Temps in the 20's give me track hack, no matter the pace.

Carl

Posted By Helen King on 29 Jan 2013 03:55 PM

Not sure anyone else here is going to be slow enough to have this problem but my Tuesday run is supposed to be at 13.00 pace and it's not happening. I'm struggling to slow down to 11.30 pace. Tomorrow, I will probably struggle with the 800m’s at 10.34 pace (struggle due to psychological rather than physical reasons I think). What do you think about walking the Tuesday sessions to hit the pace target rather than running?

Helen-

I would find what you consider your slow easy comfy pace and go with that.  There is no reason to walk.  These 14 weeks are all about building power and speed.  If you are needing to walk to hit your EP then I would think about re testing your current vDOT. 



 

[Deleted User]

Got the run in nice and early today. Hit my numbers (2 x 1 mile intervals @7:27) but some tightness in right knee. Rolled and stretched after run. Hopefully that will help!

Carl

The Honey Badger is looking for mommy badger to curl up next too!!! Came home and snow blowed the drive times two and was sure I frost bite my finger tips. Picked up training partner and off to the gym

....It went like this:

• one mile warm up to include 4x30 sec up hill strides. Felt great and light on my feet.
• 1.5 mile repeat at : 10:05
• 1.5 mile repeat at : 10:07
• 3x1 mile repeats with 2 min rest between at 6:40 pace
• Finished out the rest at HMP and MP all at 1.5-2% incline.
• Noticed the right hip and right knee grabbing....that is my body saying stretch and roll or the ITB will say HELLO!!!!!!!
• New record for me 8.7 miles in 60 minutes.

morpheus

First of all, I want to give a Thumbs Up to everyone for the work that's getting done! It ain't ez, folks. We all have our plans, our tweaks or not to those plans, we all have our own motivations and circumstances. It's really cool to know that we are all out there sweating it out together, no matter how far apart we are. Keep up the great work.





Today was the first day of me putting the injury behind me. Will try to NOT bring it up in the forums anymore, unless it relapses.

Today was the first day back where I tried to hit some pace goals.

Successful workout.



1 mi ez @z1

3x 1mi @ TP (actually, TP-4to5sec) [wasn't pushing or overachieving, felt fine]

2x 1mi @TP+1min



While I will continue to stay vigilant/disciplined/smart with this calf, it's time to put the fear of this injury behind me.



Thanks for all the support.

kimmydct

@ Helen- My targeted Tues. brick pace isn't too far from yours but I just did it @ 12:00 because that is comfortably as slow as I go. If I ever "need" to slow down, I know I can but 12:00 works for me. I also usually add a little incline (1%)

Jenniferlyn Kryvicky

Got to the gym late this morning so I did a modified warm up jumping in where my Ironsister Yvette was already in the warm up: 3 minutes at EZ pace then 4 x 30" intervals at 5k pace. Those felt jusssst fine.

Then the funn happened... 2 x 1 mile at Z4 (10:00 @ 1% incline) pace with 2' rest. Ummm... why does it hurt so much to maintain 10 minute miles, but my 5k pace felt just fine? I was pushing through every single freaking second of that run. Hot hot hot in the gym today.

I am working hard for my goal VDot!