OS warning

robin sarner

This is directed at the newer folks in EN.

A lot of more experienced folks are posting their higher volume workouts with bike and run distances and times much more than that recommended for the OS.

Bear in mind that the OS is meant to be done as is, with the exception of working up to a 2.5 hour Saturday bike and a 1.5 hour Sunday run.

So my point is, it can be dangerous to do intensity AND volume. Do not think you are doing anything wrong if you are not posting crazy distance and time volumes . In fact, if you are following the OS as written, you are probably making time efficient gains and not getting hurt. If you are trying to add in volume during the OS, you increase the risk of injury, burnout, overtraining, and regression in your fitness. If you feel the need to add in volume, cut back on the intensity.

I think the coaches and science would back me on this. But feel free to correct me.

benvanmarcke

Good point - I would also recommend reading the recommendations from the folks that finished the November Outseason to get an idea what to expect. Even without adding extra, the second half of the OS plan is so tough it became a struggle for many people (incl myself).

[Deleted User]

Agreed - I am new and was feeling pretty good the first half of the OS...then once that second test hit...boom. Those last few weeks were killer! I am stronger for it...but glad I didn't over do on the volume.

William Jenks

Yup.

Kkaufer

x 5,000!

Peter Wick

Agreed agreed agreed. Especially what Ann said. Just wait til all youse hammerheads do your tests at week 8. If you're benefitting from overdoing it in the early weeks (as opposed to accumulating more fatigue than you realize) you'll have a nice bump in your FTP/VO2max/vDOT numbers. Well, guess what, possums, you immediately get to start working with those shiny new numbers in workouts that have you spending even more time at your FTP per workout. Those VO2max workouts also jump up to longer ON times and more of them. ANNNnnnnndd WAIT! There's MORE! Now your Wednesday runs become VO2max intervals.

So think about those Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday stretches and those ever growing Saturday FTP intervals before you go on with your overachieving and sneaking in those extra workouts when you should be resting... Heh heh heh...

ezellrh

For those in the JOS that want to see what everyone above is talking about, check out the week 11/12/13 NOS weekly bike threads. You'll see a lot of talk about how tired people felt and how tough the workouts were. Personally, I believe in what the coaches put together, but I also stuck with the bare minimums for each workout. No extra credit for this guy. Good luck to you!

Swanie

Agreed with Robin, the problem is that there members that SHOULD know better posting ridiculous workouts. By the time they realize that they've screwed the pooch, it's likely their whole season will be effected. New members be warned, OS is hard all by itself no need to make it more that it is.

gschloss

I buried myself quite effectively 2 years ago by overdoing the first half of the OS (and by skipping the transition weeks into the on-season). Don't make my mistake, it was bad.

Paul Hough

Yeah, I plead guilty. I've been pretty good about following the bike protocol, but I'm up to 70 straight days running now. However, I have learned over time that I cannot build far in the Tampa summer. I have to build it before it gets hot and then hang on while I am adapting to the heat. We really don't have a winter here (78 degrees today) so this is a climate adjustment to the plan. If I owned a snow shovel I would follow it much more closely.

dkennedy

Being in only my second OS, I realized that being overly aggressive will have some consequences at some point in the season. I pledged to myself last year to make all of my numbers and brick wko's. I got hurt in Feb and had to limp into the transition weeks. Never got to test out and had to try not to re-injure myself prior to my first IM in LP.

I am hitting the Bike wko's harder than my FTP number because I feel that I tested well below my real FTP due to the new protocol for testing. My VO2 test was 308, but my FTP netted out at 235. If I take the 308 as my Z5 then my real FTP should have been closer to 245-250 Z4. So I have adjusted my FTP to reflect those numbers. I know my bump up will be closer to where I'm training at now for my FTP wko's. My goal is to have a stronger bike up at IMMT.

Steve Ross

Well said Robin on your warning on self assessment and trg. I know we all all have mental bad day's and injuries of some sort with what we do.everyday. If there is a way to minimize these issues to ourselves it's our time to practise "mental discipline not to overthink or feel your "race is just around the corner" and over train and be prone to these issues.It is my third successful OS with EN and why I am still here. I am a minimilist but want bang for my fitness. I love to train and train hard but not to get in deficiet mentally or physical. That rules the day for me in OS. Everybody pick up a shovel(PH) my two cents worth !

PS, Canada banned the penny last week now they are nickeling and diming us.

helen.king@invis.co.uk

Robin - thanks for posting this. I feel wussy enough doing the beginners plan. Whilst I'm happy with my plan and know that it's the right level for me when I see what other people are doing I begin to doubt the plan and wonder if I should be doing more.

Swanie

Stick to the plan Helen, those people posting those big workouts will be wishing they had stuck to the plan soon enough!

kimmydct

@ David- Be careful training above where you actually tested. (I think that is one of the points of this thread) It is possible you are just "better" at VO2 vs. FTP. My VO2 is about 128% FTP. It could mean a variety of things, but not necessarily that my FTP is low, and I should train higher. What some folks have been saying is that you may actually want to swap an occassional VO2 WKO for FTP. I'm not an expert but I know the coaches' say don't train higher than you test.... You earn the right to bike/run faster/harder by testing at that level. Personally, the new testing protocol gave me a spot-on FTP. To hit 98-100% is pretty damn hard so I know it is right. Yet it is "easy" for me to consistently hit 128% on my VO2 intervals vs. 120%.

Thats my 2 cents. (May only be worth 1 cent

Coach Patrick

@Robin is so right. As we hit the 1/2way point here in the OS, "stuff" really starts to get hard. Accumulated fatigue. Sore legs. Weather / external stress...the whole point of our OS is to make you stronger so you can handle the work required later to get you ready to race. Resting and being smart are CRITICAL pieces of your OS arsenal...there's plenty of time later in the year to excel or push your overall limits. For now, consider yourselves in "surgical fitness creation mode" and act with responsibility and precision.*

* my apologies for any medical professionals offended by this example!

Gordon Cherwoniak

Yes a great post. I came though the NOS doing the advance plan for the first time (4th OS) and due to my low running ability this was probably too much in that area. Stick to the plan and you will see results.

@ Helen - I did the beginner plan for 2 season and saw great results. The second OS was because I took so much time off and still saw good improvement. It's not an easy plan by any means.

Gordon

new2703

The other consideration is some ended OS early and transitioned into their Get Faster Plans, IM plans or some other plan. So everybody that's posting these workouts might be out of the OS. These plans may call for a little more volume or intensity. I know I finished my Os after 8 weeks before transitioning into the GF plan for 7 weeks and finally the IM plan of final 12 weeks of race prep. I have been adjusting volumes for long rides and runs to allow for smoother transition into the IM plan in 2 weeks. Target A race is IM Texas May 18th

Natalie Cayer Pilon

I had the same concerns! Not so much that I wasn't doing enough but that some were doing too much too soon. This is my second OS with EN. Last year I faithfully stuck to and trusted the plan and it did not steer me wrong. The OS when followed properly is hard enough all on it's own without any additional volume. I echo what my Coach and team mates have said, and that is STICK to the OS plan! Trust in the process and you will see results.

DocShock

Just because the top of your zone may be 225W, there is no shame in completing the intervals at 220W. If you are successful, next time try them at 222W. Same thing with the run intervals.

Coach Rich

+1000 and now you folks know why we dropped the OS from 20 to 14wks :-)

Peter Wick

Good to know we aren't a bunch of whiners. We're telling the truth here.

Oh and uh, Honey Badger is as Honey Badger does... ;-)

John Withrow

@Robin-- Great thread and thanks for starting. Work Works people, stay the course! And remember to treat the rest days with as much respect and discipline as you do the workout days.

TerryO

So glad someone posted what I've been thinking for weeks. For all you newbies out there, the majority of us veterans do the OS as written. Why? Because it's the OS! Remember, you are in EN because we believe that 20 hour training weeks with 6 hour trainer rides and 3 hour runs in January/February do little to affect fitness/speed on race day in July.

As for posting workouts, it's fine to broadcast your accomplishments. It's another thing to brag like your better than everyone else.

William Jenks

I think there is value in posting workouts...it's not for everyone of course... but there's value in knowing when you're not alone in being fatigued...or getting a little advice when you are. And there is fun in celebrating improvements. But I agree the spirit of it has to be right. I think you'll see members at least gently calling each other on it when things are out of hand. Some of our members are Very Enthusiastic.

I suspect there are lurkers who routinely read the Bike and Run threads even if they don't post much.

Carrie and I are making an effort to keep the JOS forums positive and helpfu on this end...but if folks have suggestions on how to make them better or more more helpful, please don't hesitate to contact either of us directly.

Brenda Ross

3rd year with the Team. Follow the plan and you will get the results you earn, not think you should have.

Trust the tests. Different tests are going to give you different results.

Remember this year we are not doing 8 weeks of FTP followed by 6 weeks of VO2 and then 6 weeks of FTP. We are mixing it all together, hence the reason for a different warm up and different test.

The coaches work hard every year to listen to the feedback of the team on their successes and failures and then adjust the plans accordingly. What perplexes me is why someone would join a team that highlights that their plans are designed for the athlete with less time than the average volume plan calls for and then they add more. Am I the only confused by this?

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the post Robin. I don't begrudge anyone their big workouts. I read the posts and think, "Man, that's pretty awesome." then go back to doing my own thing. I enjoy reading what other folks are doing, and view their posts as something to shoot for in the future.

 I've screwed up several races by trying to race other people, instead of racing to my own capability. I'm sticking to the plan, 'cause that's what I paid for. RnP asked me to trust them -- so I will. Now, if I follow my end of the bargain by doing the training, I expect they will follow their end and get me a satisfactory finish in Mont Tremblant. If not, I will kick them in the nutz. 

Carl

This is a fun forum to watch!!

Peter Wick

Just wait, Carl. You're burning the candle at both ends. I know you're building for your fundraiser but be careful. A lot of us are thinking you're sandbagging your bike and run tests, too. ;-) We've been talking about it on our secret FB group.

new2703

@carl. Justify nothing and keep doing what your doing. You're getting faster and having fun. Keep it up!!!!!

Carl

@ John-Thanks brother)-
@ Peter-Thanks for all the quick responses via FB and emails.

The biggest thing I can say is training for two big crit races, and indoor century and doing the OS has been a total blast. Working with EN and my 3 local coaches I have seen tremendous gains!!! We take my OS plan and then they add what they feel I need for attacking purposes during the crit...really pushing and working the neuromuscular area!! I have busted my azz and deserve the gains I have made! I don't think anybody thinks they are better then anybody else.

I also wanted to note I have stayed under 11 hours for the OS by adding the extra each week.
Looking ahead it looks like I might hit 12-12.5 hours once or twice but that's it.

I have been very open and made it clear I was working more then what the OS had so others would know why and know it was up and beyond our prescribed wko's!! I have answered several emails and even phone calls. Several join us via google circles for our workouts and some fun long distance friendships have been made.

I hope I have not offended anyone but with so many personalities that's probably impossible not to do.

In closing I just want you to know I will continue to bust my azz, follow my plans as written by my coaches. To this point I have yet to over achieve or workout above the plans written for me. I don't answer to anyone but The Lord above!!! If you should have any questions please ask away.

Thanks