This is nothing more than one more reminder that WTC is a business and all they care about is more people doing their races. The % of people that are actually racing an IM is small and the majority of them (like me) will simply bitch about this but then go back and deal with it and race anyway as WTC has Kona/Vegas. For better or worse, the competitive AG world is focused almost entirely around Kona, and WTC knows that. The larger population that has not done an ironman because they are worried about the mass start will now be more open to signing up for one with no mass start.... plus this will allow them to have even more people enter each race giving them a increase in both supply and demand with very little downside other than some of us complaining on message boards. For example, look at how far people are willing to travel for the fast/easier IM races vs the harder ones close to them.
That said, I'm sure we each have our own different opinion of how the waves or TT should be handled. I personally like racing all amateurs, not just my AG. Therefore, my selfish point of view:
2 Pro waves and 4 AG waves:
1. earliest time sunlight will allow - Pro Men 2. +2 minutes - Pro Women 3. +8 min - All Age Groupers that are racing for Kona or Podiums. You have to declare this when you register. Plus this would allow them to enforce the wetsuit rules, and the refs to know which groups to really watch on the course. Plus, I think you should have to consent to drug testing if you want to start with this group. If you don't race in this wave, no Kona slot for you. 4. +10 min - Sub 12 5. +10 min - Sub 14 6. +10 min- Sub 17
If the pro men could start at 6:20, that would still get everyone started by 7 and leave midnight as the cutoff.
Seeing as that is likely not going to happen, I agree with others that AG waves like 70.3 is the next best solution, but they really need to stop splitting up the larger age groups into 2 or 3.
I completely realize this is not a prefect solution for everyone but just throwing it out there from my point of view.
So, assuming that this comes to pass for IM events.....let's take it to its ridiculous, yet logical, conclusion:
Wave starts at Kona.
Or,
TT starts from the top of the steps.
REALLY??? Do you think that would float with the Kona athletes. Or, rather, would it be a case of all the IMs are equal, some are just more equal than others; and Kona stays a mass start?
I think Kona will stay a mass start for a while still. It's only 1800 people and the start area is wide enough and the majority of the people are decent swimmers. Plus, it adds to the drama for TV (even thought they tend to use previous years footage over and over). The issue at Kona it the size of the pier for holding all the bikes.
Of course, now that I said that, the other big Kona issue is the drafting early in the bike and a wave start could actually help that.....Crap, i don't like where this is going.
Darn. I am hoping to have IMLP be my first full IM next year and even though I am a horribly slow/weak swimmer, I was actually looking forward to the mass swim start. To me, that IS Ironman! You hear about how crazy, crowded, chaotic, scary the swim is but hey that's Ironman, it's supposed to be hard. If I wanted easy then I'd just stick to doing local sprint triathlons. It's the crazy challenge that makes Ironman appealing. It stinks that they are taking it down a notch.
Darn. I am hoping to have IMLP be my first full IM next year and even though I am a horribly slow/weak swimmer, I was actually looking forward to the mass swim start. To me, that IS Ironman! You hear about how crazy, crowded, chaotic, scary the swim is but hey that's Ironman, it's supposed to be hard. If I wanted easy then I'd just stick to doing local sprint triathlons. It's the crazy challenge that makes Ironman appealing. It stinks that they are taking it down a notch.
That's not Ironman, as you say. It wasn't meant to be 3000 people beating the hell out of each other for the first 20 minutes. Ironman has simply outgrown the mass start. It's just ludicrous when you think about it. If there's a less combative way to do it then let's do it. I'm a 1:05-1:10 IM swimmer (and that's on cruise control) so while not at the FOP of the swim, I'm in that top 20-25%. I'm a strong swimmer from an endurance standpoint and do not get rattled by anything in the water. The mass starts don't bother me per se but I'd just as soon not start my day wondering how many times I'm going to be punched, kicked, and elbowed. I'm all for it if these new rules allow for less physical altercations in the water.
It's challenging enough traversing 140.6 miles by land and sea that you don't need the aquatic jiu-jitsu that goes on for the first part of the swim. Trust me.
This reflects on of the more negative things about long course triathletes it seems - we forget the big picture here. Whether it's a mass start, wave start, TT start... it really shouldn't matter. Be happy you have the fitness, ability and courage to tackle the IM challenge. Don't like WTC, then don't give them your business. But it's really not that big of a deal in our lives to worry about whether our A race will have a mass or wave start.
This reflects on of the more negative things about long course triathletes it seems - we forget the big picture here. Whether it's a mass start, wave start, TT start... it really shouldn't matter. Be happy you have the fitness, ability and courage to tackle the IM challenge. Don't like WTC, then don't give them your business. But it's really not that big of a deal in our lives to worry about whether our A race will have a mass or wave start.
Ben, excellent point. Patrick and I have each done a couple hundred podcast race report interviews with our Ironman athletes. One striking feature has been the dramatic increase in "oh my Dog, I thought I was going to die" comments from >~1:08 swimmers after about 2010.
Perhaps people rueing the loss of ^these^ good ol' days should consider this and also the fact that we're skinny people riding around on fancy bikes and running poorly in dorky clothing, hitting a buffet with shitty food every 8-40'. This really isn't a very badass sport. I'm happy to swim next to you and deliver a beat down so you feel you're getting your money's worth .
Which is all to say RELAX, this is all just a game.
I do appreciate the resistance to change, but IMO, the main thing that comes to mind is that it would be nice to actually "swim" during the swim versus participate in some sort of coast guard rescue swimmer training exercise. I've done 2 Mass start Swims (LP&FL)I was pretty frustrated at IMFL during the swim this year because it was so damn crowded. I was kicked and punched numerous times. Someones race report from FL described it as, "it just felt desperate out there." Any move that would provide a safer more "swim fitness" style event is ok with me.
I'm happy to swim next to you and deliver a beat down so you feel you're getting your money's worth .
LMAO...would you?
But I totally understand what you're saying. Obviously the safer the swim the better off I'd be as I'm probably one of the slowest swimmers you'd ever see. I really should be thankful they're changing it.
I often forget that people don't know my sense of humor. Kinda hard to pick up through the intertubewebs.
I don't care about the start. I completely understand the safety argument, so I think it's a good idea to tune up the start process. I can't imagine being a lifeguard for those mass starts. How would you even know someone's in trouble -- it looks like a shark feeding frenzy.
I still do feel disadvantaged by the swim's relative unimportance in the race. I'd love to see the swim at the end - I wouldn't feel so bad being passed by all those greyhounds on the run (and on the bike), if I knew I still had a shot at them in the water at the end!! (Yes, I completely understand that it would never happen because they're afraid of tired people drowning. A boy can dream...)
Andrew, I just saw your race list...Im doing the Red Bank Olympic also. I did the Sprint last year as it was my 2nd triathlon ever. I had a lot of fun doing and as I live right near RB, I'll get to practice the Oly course quite a bit when the weather turns. Hope to see you there.
Andrew, I just saw your race list...Im doing the Red Bank Olympic also. I did the Sprint last year as it was my 2nd triathlon ever. I had a lot of fun doing and as I live right near RB, I'll get to practice the Oly course quite a bit when the weather turns. Hope to see you there.
I'll be the somewhat overweight bearded dude in the EN tritop.
It's a fun race (well, except for that stupid stretch of parkland running). This will be my 3rd year.
Swimming in Mirror lake is one of my all time best things and then at IMLP it couldn't be farther from that. I get more frustrated by that then the combat. A TT with those two loops would be interesting but maybe not better as far as getting into your own groove.
This reflects on of the more negative things about long course triathletes it seems - we forget the big picture here. Whether it's a mass start, wave start, TT start... it really shouldn't matter. Be happy you have the fitness, ability and courage to tackle the IM challenge. Don't like WTC, then don't give them your business. But it's really not that big of a deal in our lives to worry about whether our A race will have a mass or wave start.
Ben, excellent point. Patrick and I have each done a couple hundred podcast race report interviews with our Ironman athletes. One striking feature has been the dramatic increase in "oh my Dog, I thought I was going to die" comments from >~1:08 swimmers after about 2010.
Perhaps people rueing the loss of ^these^ good ol' days should consider this and also the fact that we're skinny people riding around on fancy bikes and running poorly in dorky clothing, hitting a buffet with shitty food every 8-40'. This really isn't a very badass sport. I'm happy to swim next to you and deliver a beat down so you feel you're getting your money's worth .
Which is all to say RELAX, this is all just a game.
Thank you for that! Should remember to read this anytime I am tempted to freak about it all.
Funny story. I called the CDA resort today to confirm my reservation and change some payment details. When I gave the lady my reservation dates the first words she said to me were "can you believe they are changing the way the swim starts". So funny!
Comments
That said, I'm sure we each have our own different opinion of how the waves or TT should be handled. I personally like racing all amateurs, not just my AG. Therefore, my selfish point of view:
2 Pro waves and 4 AG waves:
1. earliest time sunlight will allow - Pro Men
2. +2 minutes - Pro Women
3. +8 min - All Age Groupers that are racing for Kona or Podiums. You have to declare this when you register. Plus this would allow them to enforce the wetsuit rules, and the refs to know which groups to really watch on the course. Plus, I think you should have to consent to drug testing if you want to start with this group. If you don't race in this wave, no Kona slot for you.
4. +10 min - Sub 12
5. +10 min - Sub 14
6. +10 min- Sub 17
If the pro men could start at 6:20, that would still get everyone started by 7 and leave midnight as the cutoff.
Seeing as that is likely not going to happen, I agree with others that AG waves like 70.3 is the next best solution, but they really need to stop splitting up the larger age groups into 2 or 3.
I completely realize this is not a prefect solution for everyone but just throwing it out there from my point of view.
Wave starts at Kona.
Or,
TT starts from the top of the steps.
REALLY??? Do you think that would float with the Kona athletes. Or, rather, would it be a case of all the IMs are equal, some are just more equal than others; and Kona stays a mass start?
I think Kona will stay a mass start for a while still. It's only 1800 people and the start area is wide enough and the majority of the people are decent swimmers. Plus, it adds to the drama for TV (even thought they tend to use previous years footage over and over). The issue at Kona it the size of the pier for holding all the bikes.
Of course, now that I said that, the other big Kona issue is the drafting early in the bike and a wave start could actually help that.....Crap, i don't like where this is going.
As much as we whine about it one way or another, it's out of our control - always has been. So stop speculating and get to training already! haha
That's not Ironman, as you say. It wasn't meant to be 3000 people beating the hell out of each other for the first 20 minutes. Ironman has simply outgrown the mass start. It's just ludicrous when you think about it. If there's a less combative way to do it then let's do it. I'm a 1:05-1:10 IM swimmer (and that's on cruise control) so while not at the FOP of the swim, I'm in that top 20-25%. I'm a strong swimmer from an endurance standpoint and do not get rattled by anything in the water. The mass starts don't bother me per se but I'd just as soon not start my day wondering how many times I'm going to be punched, kicked, and elbowed. I'm all for it if these new rules allow for less physical altercations in the water.
It's challenging enough traversing 140.6 miles by land and sea that you don't need the aquatic jiu-jitsu that goes on for the first part of the swim. Trust me.
This reflects on of the more negative things about long course triathletes it seems - we forget the big picture here. Whether it's a mass start, wave start, TT start... it really shouldn't matter. Be happy you have the fitness, ability and courage to tackle the IM challenge. Don't like WTC, then don't give them your business. But it's really not that big of a deal in our lives to worry about whether our A race will have a mass or wave start.
Ben, excellent point. Patrick and I have each done a couple hundred podcast race report interviews with our Ironman athletes. One striking feature has been the dramatic increase in "oh my Dog, I thought I was going to die" comments from >~1:08 swimmers after about 2010.
Perhaps people rueing the loss of ^these^ good ol' days should consider this and also the fact that we're skinny people riding around on fancy bikes and running poorly in dorky clothing, hitting a buffet with shitty food every 8-40'. This really isn't a very badass sport. I'm happy to swim next to you and deliver a beat down so you feel you're getting your money's worth
.
Which is all to say RELAX, this is all just a game.
And Rich - thank you for cracking me up. I needed that too.
XO
LMAO...would you?
But I totally understand what you're saying. Obviously the safer the swim the better off I'd be as I'm probably one of the slowest swimmers you'd ever see. I really should be thankful they're changing it.
I often forget that people don't know my sense of humor.
Kinda hard to pick up through the intertubewebs.
I don't care about the start. I completely understand the safety argument, so I think it's a good idea to tune up the start process. I can't imagine being a lifeguard for those mass starts. How would you even know someone's in trouble -- it looks like a shark feeding frenzy.
I still do feel disadvantaged by the swim's relative unimportance in the race. I'd love to see the swim at the end - I wouldn't feel so bad being passed by all those greyhounds on the run (and on the bike), if I knew I still had a shot at them in the water at the end!!
(Yes, I completely understand that it would never happen because they're afraid of tired people drowning. A boy can dream...)
I'll be the somewhat overweight bearded dude in the EN tritop.
It's a fun race (well, except for that stupid stretch of parkland running). This will be my 3rd year.