Before EN I was bike only - was coached and did an FTP test (20mins x .95) every 4th week which was also 'rest week' - so, 3 weeks ON, 1 week OFF. I liked the process of working & testing with power, I guess doing the test in rest week made for a better test but then made using the new zones much harder. Think I prefer the EN process and the opportunity to throw down a test on a saturday ride perhaps just to see where you're at. I had another coach once who tested very little, altho' I think that was down to him being able to charge more for blood lactate testing than the DIY option!
I also felt super-physched to do the tests after 8 weeks of training, something that's lost if its every month.
Great thread. I fall into the 'strangely look forward to them when I'm not busy dreading them' camp.
I'm also reminded of a few pithy quotes from Coggan who, when he's not being a bit of a dick in various forums, has some pretty damn interesting stuff to say:
"Training is testing, and testing is training."
"Alls you can do is alls you can do."
"The best predictor of performance is performance itself."
Great stuff! To be clear, we are not talking about getting ride of testing but rather proposing that, as a group, consider them to be "periodic scheduled fitness reassessments."
We've then seen, in this thread, how various members handles these events. Some test and like it, some test and hate it, some don't test because they've figured out other methods, or know what does and doesn't work for them, etc.
For the purposes of giving you, our member, and our external training plan customers, a training plan, those plans will always have formal tests. But hopefully what we're able to do inside the Haus is have more nuanced discussions, like this one, about testing and expose you to the alternative methods that many of you employ.
1) Where do I find the test protocol for the swim (T-pace)?
2) After determining my bike and run power/pace zones via the ENData tool, do I try to create those same ranges in WKO? Does not look like WKO allows for two HR Zones (one for bike and one for run)? Also, does not look like it allows for zones with gaps?
1) Where do I find the test protocol for the swim (T-pace)?
2) After determining my bike and run power/pace zones via the ENData tool, do I try to create those same ranges in WKO? Does not look like WKO allows for two HR Zones (one for bike and one for run)? Also, does not look like it allows for zones with gaps?
Thanks,
-Todd
Todd -
1. Here's the T Pace testing protocol. I copied it from the IM training plan; it may be in the wiki somewhere (most things are), but I'll let you try the search function yourself:
T-Pace Swim Test
This test will establish your “T-Pace" which we will use as a reference for future interval work.
MS: After the warm-up, swim 1000 yards/meters at a constant pace and good effort—as if racing.
WD: Easy swimming as needed.
Record your average pace per 100, note it in the EN Data Tool. This pace is your T-pace until the next test!
2. Personally, the only things I worry about getting right in WKO are the FTP for my ride that day (trainer and outdoor FTPs will be different), and to make sure my running threshold pace is set correctly (Z4/TP from the EN data tool). That way, WKO will calculate my TSS and rTSS for each workout, and I can follow that on my Performance Management Chart. And, my NP and IF and all those other acronyms are congruent with what I read from my power meter.
I'm not a WKO+ wizard, others may have an answer to the specific question you are asking. But I one thing I learned early on entering EN is that, for running at least, HR is not a valued training tool; workouts are based on running at a specific pace, not necessarily within a specific HR zone. So, if you have a power meter and a GPS or other pace tool for running, then you don't really *need* the WKO+ HR zones. No PM: you need to use the bike HR zones from the EN data tool; no pace watch: ditto.
So, what I do in WKO+ in the upper right corner of the "Athlete Home" screen is put in my FTP in Options>View Power Zones "Threshold" slot (and change it if I need to trainer vs. outdoors), and then put in my Z4/TP pace in the Options>View Pace Zones "Threshold" slot.
Thanks for the quick reply. I did previously search the Wiki and was unable to find it, so thanks for providing the Swim Test Protocol. It may be somewhere in my HIM plan, but I didn't click through every swim workout to find out.
A couple clarifictions:
1) I assume the average per 100 for the Swim Test is just for the MS?
2) So am I understanding it right, that you enter a new FTP power each day depending on the ride you did (indoor vs. outdoor)? Using the Options -> New Zones feature in WKO and changing the FTP with a new date whenever you change from a indoor ride to an outdoor ride? Or do you just ignore the effective dating and simply change it before evaluating an individual file? I assume, if you want the cumulative statistics to be accurate, you'd need to enter a new effective dated FTP each time your ride switches from indoor to outdoor?
BTW, I do have both power (PowerTap & Computrainer) and pace (Garmin).
Todd - 1. The Test is the 1000 yard (or meters, if that's the pool you use) swim, as fast as you can go and still finish. The pace is the average per 100 of those 1000 yds/m. Then future swim workouts will sometimes ask you to do , say, T pace minus 3 (seconds) or T plus 2, etc.
2. Well, I just leave my FTP set at my outdoor # (262 now). Then, if I happen to do an indoor workout, I change it to my indoor FTP (229). Then, the next time I ride, I change it back again. The FTP I enter will apply to all future workout I enter, until I make a change again. WKO attaches the most recently entered FTP any new workout for purposes of calculating all the power equations, and that FTP stays with the workout, even if I make the change at some time in the future for new entries.
So you may need to pay attention to that if you are doing some workouts on the CT, and you have demonstrated a different FTP when testing indoors than outside. If your in and out #s are close, like within 2-5 %, it may not make that much difference unless one is OCD and has to have all numbers precise (even if they are inaccurate!) E.g, my outdoor FTP tests between 250 and 265 at various times, but I just use 263 unless I get outside of that range.
@Al, somewhere along the way I used to put in an effective date of FTP changes (there's the date field right there in WKO below the FTP value). So, if I did indoor today, I'd put my indoor FTP there, with todays date. Then, outside tomorrow, I'd put my outside FTP in the box with tomorrow's date. WKO would calculate with the date-specific FTP.
I seemed to have lost that capability somewhere/sometime. Any ideas on how to get it back?
@ Scott, I'm no help, just a routine user of the software. Now you've got me worried, I'll have to check out how it's working the next time I go in there (since it lives on the PC side of my Mac, I only go there when forced to!)
OOPS, the "effective" field is center top of the "Power Training Zones" 'window'. But I haven't been able to use the date field for a while, don't know why.
Comments
I had another coach once who tested very little, altho' I think that was down to him being able to charge more for blood lactate testing than the DIY option!
I also felt super-physched to do the tests after 8 weeks of training, something that's lost if its every month.
Great thread. I fall into the 'strangely look forward to them when I'm not busy dreading them' camp.
I'm also reminded of a few pithy quotes from Coggan who, when he's not being a bit of a dick in various forums, has some pretty damn interesting stuff to say:
Hey Folks,
Great stuff! To be clear, we are not talking about getting ride of testing but rather proposing that, as a group, consider them to be "periodic scheduled fitness reassessments."
We've then seen, in this thread, how various members handles these events. Some test and like it, some test and hate it, some don't test because they've figured out other methods, or know what does and doesn't work for them, etc.
For the purposes of giving you, our member, and our external training plan customers, a training plan, those plans will always have formal tests. But hopefully what we're able to do inside the Haus is have more nuanced discussions, like this one, about testing and expose you to the alternative methods that many of you employ.
Sound good?
1) Where do I find the test protocol for the swim (T-pace)?
2) After determining my bike and run power/pace zones via the ENData tool, do I try to create those same ranges in WKO? Does not look like WKO allows for two HR Zones (one for bike and one for run)? Also, does not look like it allows for zones with gaps?
Thanks,
-Todd
Todd -
1. Here's the T Pace testing protocol. I copied it from the IM training plan; it may be in the wiki somewhere (most things are), but I'll let you try the search function yourself:
T-Pace Swim Test
This test will establish your “T-Pace" which we will use as a reference for future interval work.
WU: Start slow and gradually build pace/effort. 100 swim, 100 kick, 100 swim, 100 kick, 100 swim.
MS: After the warm-up, swim 1000 yards/meters at a constant pace and good effort—as if racing.
WD: Easy swimming as needed.
Record your average pace per 100, note it in the EN Data Tool. This pace is your T-pace until the next test!
2. Personally, the only things I worry about getting right in WKO are the FTP for my ride that day (trainer and outdoor FTPs will be different), and to make sure my running threshold pace is set correctly (Z4/TP from the EN data tool). That way, WKO will calculate my TSS and rTSS for each workout, and I can follow that on my Performance Management Chart. And, my NP and IF and all those other acronyms are congruent with what I read from my power meter.
I'm not a WKO+ wizard, others may have an answer to the specific question you are asking. But I one thing I learned early on entering EN is that, for running at least, HR is not a valued training tool; workouts are based on running at a specific pace, not necessarily within a specific HR zone. So, if you have a power meter and a GPS or other pace tool for running, then you don't really *need* the WKO+ HR zones. No PM: you need to use the bike HR zones from the EN data tool; no pace watch: ditto.
So, what I do in WKO+ in the upper right corner of the "Athlete Home" screen is put in my FTP in Options>View Power Zones "Threshold" slot (and change it if I need to trainer vs. outdoors), and then put in my Z4/TP pace in the Options>View Pace Zones "Threshold" slot.
Hey Al,
Thanks for the quick reply. I did previously search the Wiki and was unable to find it, so thanks for providing the Swim Test Protocol. It may be somewhere in my HIM plan, but I didn't click through every swim workout to find out.
A couple clarifictions:
1) I assume the average per 100 for the Swim Test is just for the MS?
2) So am I understanding it right, that you enter a new FTP power each day depending on the ride you did (indoor vs. outdoor)? Using the Options -> New Zones feature in WKO and changing the FTP with a new date whenever you change from a indoor ride to an outdoor ride? Or do you just ignore the effective dating and simply change it before evaluating an individual file? I assume, if you want the cumulative statistics to be accurate, you'd need to enter a new effective dated FTP each time your ride switches from indoor to outdoor?
BTW, I do have both power (PowerTap & Computrainer) and pace (Garmin).
Thanks again!
-Todd
Todd - 1. The Test is the 1000 yard (or meters, if that's the pool you use) swim, as fast as you can go and still finish. The pace is the average per 100 of those 1000 yds/m. Then future swim workouts will sometimes ask you to do , say, T pace minus 3 (seconds) or T plus 2, etc.
2. Well, I just leave my FTP set at my outdoor # (262 now). Then, if I happen to do an indoor workout, I change it to my indoor FTP (229). Then, the next time I ride, I change it back again. The FTP I enter will apply to all future workout I enter, until I make a change again. WKO attaches the most recently entered FTP any new workout for purposes of calculating all the power equations, and that FTP stays with the workout, even if I make the change at some time in the future for new entries.
So you may need to pay attention to that if you are doing some workouts on the CT, and you have demonstrated a different FTP when testing indoors than outside. If your in and out #s are close, like within 2-5 %, it may not make that much difference unless one is OCD and has to have all numbers precise (even if they are inaccurate!) E.g, my outdoor FTP tests between 250 and 265 at various times, but I just use 263 unless I get outside of that range.
So, if I did indoor today, I'd put my indoor FTP there, with todays date.
Then, outside tomorrow, I'd put my outside FTP in the box with tomorrow's date.
WKO would calculate with the date-specific FTP.
I seemed to have lost that capability somewhere/sometime. Any ideas on how to get it back?
@ Scott, I'm no help, just a routine user of the software. Now you've got me worried, I'll have to check out how it's working the next time I go in there (since it lives on the PC side of my Mac, I only go there when forced to!)