Posted By Ben Vanmarcke on 07 Jul 2013 07:51 AM Well, we will see, but even before halfway through today's stage there was nobody from sky in the main peleton. Last year Wiggins had at least Froome with him, so i think this year will be more challenging for Sky.
Au contraire. With his commanding lead, and a downhill finish, Froome can let someone else (eg Movistar) do all the work, since all he has to do is follow, and he can clearly keep up with anyone in the peloton uphill. No need for a Sky Train until the next uphill finish, so Porte can rest himself until then. Besides, with Froome the fastest TTer among the climbers, the only thing which could derail his coronation is an injury or accident.
He's headed for one of those 5-7 minute victories like Armstrong used to have, which makes one wonder....is it his Kenyan ( high altitude) birth, or some other secret formula?
Based on what I saw today I'm even more convinced he can be beat. His team was absolutely nowhere, but Froome was extremely lucky only Movistar attempted to attack, and in the end Gesink did all the work to keep the gap steady on Martin and Fuglsang. Belkin still has 2 guys in the GC top 4, no doubt they will attack in a few days, so will Contador and a few others and Froome will need to close every single gap himself. It's gonna be like Paris-Roubaix in 2011, all against Fabian = very difficult to win.
I have not yet watched today's stage, just saw the final 2 km up the second to last climb. Apparently, we will resume this discussion on Bastille Day, after the Monster of Provence? I say Sky is sandbagging, and has the smartest, strongest team, although one would think on paper that would belong to Saxo-Tinkoff.
Meanwhile, it's the Mark/Andre/Peter show for a week, along with 1-2 breakaways? Cavendish must have built up a S&%t load of anger by now, watch out on Tuesday.
Definitely 2-3 stages for the sprinters, and a few for the breakaway guys in the second half of the week. There is also the ITT on Wednesday, 33km... not sure what it's gonna show us (except Tony Martin demonstrating his class). Probably not much excitement for the GC until Sunday at Mt Ventoux, so I'm hoping for the excitement to come from Sep in one of those stages when a breakaway gets to the finish.
I can't think of another stage or climb where one GC contender so handily crushed all other GC contenders.
I've seen some discussions on the Interwebs comparing / estimating Froome's VAM for yesterday's stage to be right up with there with Armstrong and others in the now-known-to-be-tainted tours.
Too good to be true? Or just enjoy my popcorn and the circus that pro cycling most likely still is?
And I didn't understand Movistar's tactics today. They controlled the race with six (6!!!) guys in the lead group for all but the last climb. But when Quintana jumped 3-4 x's on the last climb he didn't commit and instead shut it down when he saw that Froome, sitting down at crazy high cadence, was coming back to him.
The only thing I could think of was that Movistar didn't want to an attacking fight between Quintana and Froome to put Valverde into difficulty and hurt his future GC chances -- Froome chases Quintana vs just marking Valverde, Valverde can't keep up and ends up losing more time to Froome. Do we know that Quintana even TT? Why not just let him go and continue to mark Valverde?
When I first saw Quintana jump and Froome chase, I figured that Valverde was going to jump at some point after Froome caught up to Quintana. I figured he was waiting when he didn't go the first time, but I was in shock when he didn't attack the second time Froome dragged Quintana back. I wonder if the Qunitana/Valverde situation is similar to Wiggins/Froome from last year where the stronger, but younger guy is held back because of age/politics/etc.
Quintana is the man! I love that little guy from nowhere. I am stoked for him and his white jersey. What happened to TeeJay?
Agree that Froome has a long race ahead. Team Sky appears to be a paper tiger. They were empty suits today. If winning the tour is all about the team, blah, blah, blah... It looks like Froome is in trouble. I hope the Latino's crack on him at every mountain opportunity.
In which pub is Wiggins having a pint, a bit fish and chips thinking about his decision to sit this one out?
Posted By Dino Sarti on 08 Jul 2013 12:07 AM Quintana is the man! I love that little guy from nowhere. I am stoked for him and his white jersey. What happened to TeeJay?
Agree that Froome has a long race ahead. Team Sky appears to be a paper tiger. They were empty suits today. If winning the tour is all about the team, blah, blah, blah... It looks like Froome is in trouble. I hope the Latino's crack on him at every mountain opportunity.
In which pub is Wiggins having a pint, a bit fish and chips thinking about his decision to sit this one out?
Wait till Wed. We still havent seen Quntana TT in a three week race.
For those who didnt get to see the very start of today's stage, it was Garmin's incessant attacks from km 0 by Martin, Tommy D et all that caused all the havoc. For some reason, Froome felt he had to counter them (personally) and that led to his team blowing up ... He ahot himself in the foot, Movistar simply took advantage. The damage was already done by the time they came to the front. I bet Brailsford will use this as a teachable moment, and we'll see more sensible behavoir on the road. Remember, Froome really doesn't have much experience as the lead guy in a Grand Tour. Strategy both short and long term is as important as fitness, and he's apparently still learning that. He should have let Movistar or Saxo go after the early Garmin attacks, if only to call their(the Iberians) bluff.
What an exciting stage! I was completely conflicted at the end. I'm a Jacob Fulsang fan (back from the old Saxo Bank days- he's a second tier pro tour BF) so I wanted him to win. But Garmin was the team that really made the whole stage unfold in such an exciting way so I wanted Garmin to win (even though I'm not much of a Tony Martin fan). And then of course there were finally little glimmers of hope that Andy would finally do something a little exciting (at least he had some face time). Woohoo! What a great stage!
But yes, what has happened to TJ? I need a little more TJ in my day.
Finally= I have to say that whatever you think of Froome, I chose to believe the emplosion of Ritchie Porte was a positive sign for cleaner riding. After the prior stage, it was kinda good to see at least one guy show that he's just human.
I haven't been able to watch as religiously this year as in the past, but have been keeping up day to day on the stages. My musings so far:
- I'll be honest, I don't like Froome. I don't like Wiggins very much either, in fact I guess you could say I'm just not much of a fan of Team Sky. I wouldn't say I believe that Froome is doping, but I definitely don't whole heartedly believe that he is clean either. I guess that is really a consequence of the tour history, really precedence has taught me that you just can't trust anyone.
That said, there's a huge thread over on ST about Froome's VAM from stage 8 and how it stacks up among some of the best performances from confirmed dopers. I don't exactly trust ST to be my unbiased source of all analysis, but suffice to say his VAM was notable.
- Not a particularly strong year for American riders so far. Decent performance for Andrew Talansky, but I too was disappointed to see Teejay crack.
- What's with Ryder Hesjedal's sunglasses?
- Dan Martin has bad teeth.
- Where can I get one of these see-through jersey's that everyone seems to be wearing? Whenever they do close ups it seems like everyone is wearing crazy thin, tight and stretchy jerseys. They've probably been wearing these for years but I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually wearing a jersey like that out in the wild. They look cool from a temperature perspective.
- Where can I get one of these see-through jersey's that everyone seems to be wearing? Whenever they do close ups it seems like everyone is wearing crazy thin, tight and stretchy jerseys.
I don't know about the jersey's but let's just say it one more time, with feeling, " bicycle shorts should always be black or some other dark color." Certainly never florescent green! I feel a little dirty watching the podium ceremony!
Speaking of which, this year it seems the Polka Dot Jersey Podium Hostesses were finally given something reasonably decent to wear. Meanwhile, the White Jersey ladies have fallen way to the bottom of the pack- what are those things they are wearing? The Green Jersey ladies look like they should be standing next to Austin Powers.
Oh, and one more bonus observation for the rest day. I've been having a laugh at Paul and Phil's commentary for the average wattage of the peloton versus the break on most stages.
I have no idea where they get these figures from, but I've seen them come back on several occasions and claim that the break has averaged 478 watts for the past 2 hours or some other absurdity, and other similar numbers for the peloton.
I have no doubt that these guys can put out mind-bending power as I've seen some of the power analysis from the past but the figures they are throwing out are laughable for the durations that are being cited.
For more of a fun / actual idea of the type of power some of the guys are putting out, check out http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/2013-tour-de-france.aspx As a really interesting (to me) side note, the only power analysis they have for stage 8 is for Romain Sicard and they claim his FTP is only 328 W? His peak 20' NP for the entire stage was only 302 W apparently. To me that seems shockingly low for a professional bike racer, even though it's helped along quite a bit by the fact that he only weighs 140lbs.
That FTP seems pretty low. BTW, a FTP of 328 at 140lbs is a w/kg of 5.15. Patrick posted an article the other day on the dashboard that was refering to Tour riders having W/KG of around 6.1.
I wonder if the tour riders are to "cool" to show their powerfiles, but it seems like it could be a cool way to analyse the race, kind of like a play by play in football.
Fair points, Al and Nemo. I watched the NBC two hour coverage later in the evening. I just cant' find the time to watch an entire race....
Only reason I was able to, I was "working" on Sunday, which mostly involves sitting around the hospital waiting ... I could read medical journals, but it's July
And finally, while I do not suspect Froome of PED cheating/use, it is so very hard after decades of bald-face lying from so many top tier cyclists to have any faith in these kind of comments, no matter how sincere an impression he makes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23213763
Power and weight are crazy when you get super light. I ride pretty regularly with a chica named "Bob" (long, boring story). She hangs on the climbs and then can generally get dumped in the flats. She sent me her file highlights from a ride we did together. She climbed with me doing about 100 fewer watts than I needed to produce. She is probably 110 pounds versus my 180.
Little guys like Quintana don't need to produce mind bending power when they weigh 130 pounds. He can probably just float to the heavens like some kind of Columbian Coke Freak at 200 watts. Where the TT will be interesting is can that 130 pound frame produce enough torque to get big watts in the flats....
Fair points, Al and Nemo. I watched the NBC two hour coverage later in the evening. I just cant' find the time to watch an entire race....
Only reason I was able to, I was "working" on Sunday, which mostly involves sitting around the hospital waiting ... I could read medical journals, but it's July
I have the personal time. I just can't get the remote control for 5 hours! Sunday I was forced to watch "Hotel Transylvania" 3 times. How kids watch a movie and then shout to see it again, right away, as soon as the credits starts??? That was about 6 hours.... Then pool time, then more of their shows.... I am lucky to get the TV after their 8:00 PM bedtime....
Where the TT will be interesting is can that 130 pound frame produce enough torque to get big watts in the flats....
That's what makes (made?) Contador so special - he could TT with Cancellara and climb with Schleck.
Re: time to watch...that's what the iPad/Phone app is for! $14.99, no commercials, streams live from KM zero, or repeats at will starting about 4 hours after end of race. Funny thing is Phil and Paul keep talking during all the TV commercial breaks and other spots. They just take a less intense, more conversational tone. Also, the first 2-3 hours is commentated by a single ?Aussie, who knows when to shut up.
I watch the first ~10-15' to learn the current situation of the race. I then fast forward until I see crashes, what looks like it might be a breakaway, etc. Then I'll faster forward to the climbs, finishes and watch those.
If a sprint stage I basically jump to the last 20k or look for crashes in the last 20k :-)
I must say moving to the east side has made watching the Tour much more difficult! In the past when living in LA area I'd get up at 6am and watch the last 2.5h and still be at work in time. Now... not so much! I had last week off, which was awesome - get up, go swim, have breakfast, then hang 3h in front of the TV. But now I've got to go back to work it will be a matter of checking for text updates online at work - an plan for an excuse to escape and go watch it at home should Sep be in the break or racing for a stage win.
If a sprint stage I basically jump to the last 20k or look for crashes in the last 20k :-)
Today was a perfect day for the above strategy. Pretty much a zzzzzzzzzzz stage until the end. And even that wasn't very exciting. I did however enjoy a few fly over shots of castles.
Without cable, satelite, or antena, I'm watching via the NBC Live subscription on my home laptop (hooked up via HDMI to the TV). I figured $29 once a year is a lot cheaper than cable or satelite all year long just so I can watch 7 weeks of the tour.
It was worth the price of admission to watch Cavendish level that poor Shimano Doode. Wow! I am sure it was unintentional, but he sure gave that guy a bump.... HARD.
Comments
He's headed for one of those 5-7 minute victories like Armstrong used to have, which makes one wonder....is it his Kenyan ( high altitude) birth, or some other secret formula?
I have not yet watched today's stage, just saw the final 2 km up the second to last climb. Apparently, we will resume this discussion on Bastille Day, after the Monster of Provence? I say Sky is sandbagging, and has the smartest, strongest team, although one would think on paper that would belong to Saxo-Tinkoff.
Meanwhile, it's the Mark/Andre/Peter show for a week, along with 1-2 breakaways? Cavendish must have built up a S&%t load of anger by now, watch out on Tuesday.
I can't think of another stage or climb where one GC contender so handily crushed all other GC contenders.
I've seen some discussions on the Interwebs comparing / estimating Froome's VAM for yesterday's stage to be right up with there with Armstrong and others in the now-known-to-be-tainted tours.
Too good to be true? Or just enjoy my popcorn and the circus that pro cycling most likely still is?
Or start a separate thread?
And I didn't understand Movistar's tactics today. They controlled the race with six (6!!!) guys in the lead group for all but the last climb. But when Quintana jumped 3-4 x's on the last climb he didn't commit and instead shut it down when he saw that Froome, sitting down at crazy high cadence, was coming back to him.
The only thing I could think of was that Movistar didn't want to an attacking fight between Quintana and Froome to put Valverde into difficulty and hurt his future GC chances -- Froome chases Quintana vs just marking Valverde, Valverde can't keep up and ends up losing more time to Froome. Do we know that Quintana even TT? Why not just let him go and continue to mark Valverde?
Agree that Froome has a long race ahead. Team Sky appears to be a paper tiger. They were empty suits today. If winning the tour is all about the team, blah, blah, blah... It looks like Froome is in trouble. I hope the Latino's crack on him at every mountain opportunity.
In which pub is Wiggins having a pint, a bit fish and chips thinking about his decision to sit this one out?
For those who didnt get to see the very start of today's stage, it was Garmin's incessant attacks from km 0 by Martin, Tommy D et all that caused all the havoc. For some reason, Froome felt he had to counter them (personally) and that led to his team blowing up ... He ahot himself in the foot, Movistar simply took advantage. The damage was already done by the time they came to the front. I bet Brailsford will use this as a teachable moment, and we'll see more sensible behavoir on the road. Remember, Froome really doesn't have much experience as the lead guy in a Grand Tour. Strategy both short and long term is as important as fitness, and he's apparently still learning that. He should have let Movistar or Saxo go after the early Garmin attacks, if only to call their(the Iberians) bluff.
Tejay is a mystery to me as well.
But yes, what has happened to TJ? I need a little more TJ in my day.
Finally= I have to say that whatever you think of Froome, I chose to believe the emplosion of Ritchie Porte was a positive sign for cleaner riding. After the prior stage, it was kinda good to see at least one guy show that he's just human.
PS: If you need help getting caught up and haven't seen these recaps yet, check them out. Entertaining and informative:
Stages 1-4
http://vimeo.com/69611704
Stages 5-9
http://vimeo.com/69876162
- I'll be honest, I don't like Froome. I don't like Wiggins very much either, in fact I guess you could say I'm just not much of a fan of Team Sky. I wouldn't say I believe that Froome is doping, but I definitely don't whole heartedly believe that he is clean either. I guess that is really a consequence of the tour history, really precedence has taught me that you just can't trust anyone.
That said, there's a huge thread over on ST about Froome's VAM from stage 8 and how it stacks up among some of the best performances from confirmed dopers. I don't exactly trust ST to be my unbiased source of all analysis, but suffice to say his VAM was notable.
- Not a particularly strong year for American riders so far. Decent performance for Andrew Talansky, but I too was disappointed to see Teejay crack.
- What's with Ryder Hesjedal's sunglasses?
- Dan Martin has bad teeth.
- Where can I get one of these see-through jersey's that everyone seems to be wearing? Whenever they do close ups it seems like everyone is wearing crazy thin, tight and stretchy jerseys. They've probably been wearing these for years but I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually wearing a jersey like that out in the wild. They look cool from a temperature perspective.
I don't know about the jersey's but let's just say it one more time, with feeling, " bicycle shorts should always be black or some other dark color." Certainly never florescent green! I feel a little dirty watching the podium ceremony!
Speaking of which, this year it seems the Polka Dot Jersey Podium Hostesses were finally given something reasonably decent to wear. Meanwhile, the White Jersey ladies have fallen way to the bottom of the pack- what are those things they are wearing? The Green Jersey ladies look like they should be standing next to Austin Powers.
I have no idea where they get these figures from, but I've seen them come back on several occasions and claim that the break has averaged 478 watts for the past 2 hours or some other absurdity, and other similar numbers for the peloton.
I have no doubt that these guys can put out mind-bending power as I've seen some of the power analysis from the past but the figures they are throwing out are laughable for the durations that are being cited.
For more of a fun / actual idea of the type of power some of the guys are putting out, check out http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/2013-tour-de-france.aspx As a really interesting (to me) side note, the only power analysis they have for stage 8 is for Romain Sicard and they claim his FTP is only 328 W? His peak 20' NP for the entire stage was only 302 W apparently. To me that seems shockingly low for a professional bike racer, even though it's helped along quite a bit by the fact that he only weighs 140lbs.
http://inrng.com/2013/07/tour-de-france-podium-hostess-interview/
I wonder if the tour riders are to "cool" to show their powerfiles, but it seems like it could be a cool way to analyse the race, kind of like a play by play in football.
Only reason I was able to, I was "working" on Sunday, which mostly involves sitting around the hospital waiting ... I could read medical journals, but it's July
@ Nate: comments from Sky team manager on the non-release of power data issue: http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/news/qa-brailsford-on-why-froome-wont-release-power-data_293771
And finally, while I do not suspect Froome of PED cheating/use, it is so very hard after decades of bald-face lying from so many top tier cyclists to have any faith in these kind of comments, no matter how sincere an impression he makes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23213763
Little guys like Quintana don't need to produce mind bending power when they weigh 130 pounds. He can probably just float to the heavens like some kind of Columbian Coke Freak at 200 watts. Where the TT will be interesting is can that 130 pound frame produce enough torque to get big watts in the flats....
I have the personal time. I just can't get the remote control for 5 hours! Sunday I was forced to watch "Hotel Transylvania" 3 times. How kids watch a movie and then shout to see it again, right away, as soon as the credits starts??? That was about 6 hours.... Then pool time, then more of their shows.... I am lucky to get the TV after their 8:00 PM bedtime....
That's what makes (made?) Contador so special - he could TT with Cancellara and climb with Schleck.
Re: time to watch...that's what the iPad/Phone app is for! $14.99, no commercials, streams live from KM zero, or repeats at will starting about 4 hours after end of race. Funny thing is Phil and Paul keep talking during all the TV commercial breaks and other spots. They just take a less intense, more conversational tone. Also, the first 2-3 hours is commentated by a single ?Aussie, who knows when to shut up.
I watch the first ~10-15' to learn the current situation of the race.
I then fast forward until I see crashes, what looks like it might be a breakaway, etc. Then I'll faster forward to the climbs, finishes and watch those.
If a sprint stage I basically jump to the last 20k or look for crashes in the last 20k :-)
Today was a perfect day for the above strategy. Pretty much a zzzzzzzzzzz stage until the end. And even that wasn't very exciting. I did however enjoy a few fly over shots of castles.
Without cable, satelite, or antena, I'm watching via the NBC Live subscription on my home laptop (hooked up via HDMI to the TV). I figured $29 once a year is a lot cheaper than cable or satelite all year long just so I can watch 7 weeks of the tour.
www.bicycling.com/news/2011-tour-de-france/tour-features/you-versus-peloton