Interesting point yesterday in the 'Ask Bobke' segment on NBC, asking about who the big (tall & heavy) riders are in the Tour, and the name of Eros Poli was mentioned who was like 200lbs and 6.5 ft tall. A powerhouse, but he won what I consider the most beautiful Stage win ever! It was the stage over the Mt Ventoux, he attacked alone in the beginning of the stage and the peloton let him go. He got a max of 27 minutes or so until they started chasing. He started the climb up Ventoux maybe 23 minutes ahead of the peloton and had only a minutes left towards the top. Pretty much managed to maintain his lead in the descent, and eventually won the stage (in tears). So awesome.
Mont ventoux was not disappointing today. Froome did amazing, and his team held on longer - but not quite as long as would be ideal. Still impressive though, nonetheless. He pulled away from both contador and Quintana with some impressive high cadence bursts.
I think it's not just you, Nemo, since almost every question in the Froome interviews is about doping, so many people have their concerns.
I read somewhere yesterday his watts per kg on Ventoux was estimated to be 6.0, a few years ago that didn't get you in the top 10. I think he is probably clean and we are seeing a clean Contador also, who is still good but not quite like doper Contador.
Personally i thought the stage was disappointing but that's only due to the result. I was cheering for the Belkin boys and they had a rough time hanging on.
Ben, I was also a bit disapointed. Perhaps that's why I was also suspicious. I am not a Contador fan, but I frankly was rooting for him yesterday because I'd really like this next week to be a bit more interesting.
Looking forward to the Science of Sport blog post on this topic today. Definitely not normal for someone 6'1" and 157lbs to close that fast on a 126lbs climber, and then ride him off his wheel. Not normal at all.
BTW, looking for the link, but Froome's time yesterday from Bedoin to the summit compares very favorably with times put up by Armstrong and Pantani in the doping age, as well as with Contador, Schleck, and Kreuziger in 2009, so very hard to say anything definitive.
That was fun to watch...how about the guy from Sky who fell off the pace and then almost fell off his bike. Team Sky must of had a pretty serious team meeting after the previous stage.
That was fun to watch...how about the guy from Sky who fell off the pace and then almost fell off his bike. Team Sky must of had a pretty serious team meeting after the previous stage.
Yeah, like those "serious team meetings" USPS used to have. You know, the ones with the locked doors and the blood bags hanging from coat hangers...
I have zero doubt that Sky is on a "program". They're just one step ahead of the testers. And don't get me started on the whole "Richie Porte blew up the day after Ax 3 Domaines, so he must be clean" thing...
I was speaking with Coach Rich last week and he really got me thinking about something interesting. When watching the Tour this year, doesn't it feel like something is missing? It feels like the coverage shrank by about 30 minutes.
Remember all the "B-roll" of Lance Armstrong that they used to show? The packages containing the wins, the training, the sound bites? They are all gone.
I get that he is a doper from a generation of dopers, but it is like he never existed. Rich nailed it for me when he said "They Photoshopped him out of cycling". It is wild. They quite obviously had several meetings and I am sure memos discussing how to handle this. The direction seems to be that he never existed. You can't find a single image of him in the coverage.
It's crazy the hole that now exists for a decade in the history of cycling. I think about it whenever I hear them refer to the 100th running of the tour. If they take Lance out of the picture digitally, isn't this really the 93 running of the tour?
So strange. After all, Alberto and other "former" dopes are there. Many think Froome is a doper now (he probably is not). It's wild.
FWIW, I agree with the approach. Lance is the poster boy for damaged goods, but it is still wild to me the institutional effort behind it.
I'm not sure what gets put on the NBC broadcast since I'm watching the streeming video feed. I'd agree that for the most part it is as if they have removed Lance from the timeline. However, they have these little backstory things on the live feed (it seems to me they were generated primarily for the French audience) and one of them was "Heros". They interviewed current riders about who their Hero's were. Two things struck me on that section:
1- Cantador saying his hero was Lance (he had his poster on his wall). Both the fact that he said it- and the fact that they still included it. 2- Cav saying "no one". He says he never wanted to be the next X rider. He just always wanted to be the best Mark Cavendish. That's just so Cav!
Dino, what I find incredible is their "photoshopping of Lance", while they trot out the same old excuses they used to use for Lance to describe Froome's performance now. "Better training methods", "improved focus on nutrition", "access to the latest and greatest from xxx" (for Froome it's GB's olympic push, for LA it was Nike's project 1). Just deplorable how folks who cover the sport are willing to keep using the same excuses for different guys when we see outlier performances.
And somebody explain to me how it is that, magically, Sky had the best two riders in the tour last year, lost one to injury, and basically out of nowhere, has two of the strongest riders in the tour this year? Richie Porte is clearly dogging parts of the stages now in order to not draw attention to himself (he really f'ed it up on Ax 3 Domaines).
BTW, none of this diminishes my interest in the Tour. But I know something is wrong when I'm yelling at Contador to "do something" as he's getting dropped on Ventoux, because I'd just absolutely love to see him take out Froome. If I'm rooting for AC, something has gone horribly wrong...
But I know something is wrong when I'm yelling at Contador to "do something" as he's getting dropped on Ventoux, because I'd just absolutely love to see him take out Froome. If I'm rooting for AC, something has gone horribly wrong...
I rode with earplugs with my tri club on Saturday to avoid hearing any conversations about Friday's stage, then watched it when I got home. Awesome display of team tactics! THIS is why I watch the Tour, for days like this.
Quintana didn't look all that worked when he popped. Maybe he has different tells but he just didn't look all that bad when Froome rode away from him, and nearly instantly put up that huge gap.
What have PnPnBobke said about Lance, post Oprah? #toolazytogoogle
I feel the accusations towards Froome are just that.... Accusations. They aren't based on anything. Can somebody post the official times of Ventoux comparing Armstrong, Virenque, Pantani, Froome, etc etc? I don't like Froome either but i realized it's because he looks so skinny it's ridiculous and he reminds me of Michael Rasmussen. Who I also didn't like because he was so skinny it was ridiculous. And both come off as so f'ing boring. Unlike Armstrong and, to some degree, Contador who have much more personality and are always ready for some kind of fight.
And if Quintana didn't look all that worked when he popped you clearly didn't see the video right after he crossed the line.
Agree with the Lance thing, it's plain stupid to pretend he was never there.
Rest day for Sep, one more week to go and he will be a true professional cyclist! Some say you ain't a true cyclist until you have crashed and broken your collarbone (so he did that last year), others say you ain't a true cyclist until you've finished the Tour de France. Six more days to go!
BTW, none of this diminishes my interest in the Tour. But I know something is wrong when I'm yelling at Contador to "do something" as he's getting dropped on Ventoux, because I'd just absolutely love to see him take out Froome. If I'm rooting for AC, something has gone horribly wrong...
Contador can't "do something" since all the beef has not been imported from Spain . To be honest, I haven't seen a single kick out of him yet. Hopefully in the Alps just to make it exciting, but he's got no pop!! Evans is the old self---don't know where his magic to win that one tour came from, but he's never looked like that again nor did he look like that previously. Schleck didn't even make it close to the tree line...hmmm. While I love the tour, I wonder what it's going to take to actually have an epic battle---Wiggins vs. Froome if one of them splits from Sky?
I think the chance of seeing epic battles again will not be high as long as race organizers always want to make the race harder, add more climbs and craziness etc especially in a cleaner cycling environment. Riders will need to be much more careful with how they are spending their energy and can't rely on doping to speed up their recovery. This is one of the complaints from several director sportifs and riders, but as long as the organizers don't do anything about it, there will be less battles.
So if you want to see battles - forget about stage races and watch the European Classics with Het Nieuwsblad, Kuurne, Tour of Flanders, E3 Harelbeke, Gent - Wevelgem, Paris - Roubaix, Liege - Bastogne - Liege, Fleche Wallone, Amstel Gold race, San Sebastian, Tour of Lombardy and Paris-Tours.
I feel the accusations towards Froome are just that.... Accusations. They aren't based on anything. Can somebody post the official times of Ventoux comparing Armstrong, Virenque, Pantani, Froome, etc etc?
MONT VENTOUX (last 15.65 km [from St. Esteve], 8.74 %, 1368 m)
----TOP 50 LIST
-1. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Chris Froome _________ GBR | 48:35 | 2013
-3. Andy Schleck _________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-4. Alberto Contador _____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-5. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-6. Marco Pantani ________ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-8. Frank Schleck ________ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-9. Nairo Quintana _______ COL | 49:04 | 2013
10. Roman Kreuziger ______ CZE | 49:05 | 2009
#1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 have been busted for doping. #10 admits that he works with Ferarri. That leaves Andy Schleck and Chris Froome...
I'm just saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
Leaves me highly suspicious. Not proof, but remember, we never had 'proof' of Armstrong, either, but it didn't stop David Walsh from calling it like he saw it.
I can't believe that day after day I'm rooting for Contador. That descent was scary- glad neither was really hurt. Anyone have any clue what the "thumbs up" from Cantador to Quintana was all about? Or is this one of those cultural things where the thumbs up gesture doesn't quite mean what it means here in the US?
I'm a bike tech guy so today was an excellent stage. We got to see the full gamut of tactical options deployed for a time trial stage that also featured some difficult climbs and nasty descents.
There was a bunch of discussion before hand about whether the teams would be riding their TT bikes, their road bikes, their aero-road bikes, whether they'd have clip-ons or road bikes with full TT bars and we pretty much saw every variation of that.
Lot of riders road a road bike for the first big climb and technical descent, then swapped to time trial bikes. Seemed like a lot of others just stuck with aero-road and clip ons. The Garmin guys were an interesting lot, the P5 is undoubtedly aero but also quite heavy for a stage like this. As expected, we saw some of the guys like Talansky riding the S5 but with a dedicated TT cockpit. Giving you near the performance of a TT bike but in a lighter package.
Same dilemma on the helmet front. Lots of aero road helmets instead of full blown TT helmets, and saw a lot of variation in the guys who did wear TT helmets-- mostly in that they ditched the visors.
Coming from someone who tends to like the bikes more than the people who ride them, today was a good day.
I'm surprised no one's commented yet on today's stage. Twice up the Alpe, with that desolate Cat 2 & descent in between, really tore into everone's reserves. Those who succeeded - Riblon, Quintana, Purito, Porte, looked gallant as they emptied the tank. Even those who faltered - Tejay, Froome, Contador, carried some nobility and persistence in their failure.
A continuing mystery to me is why Froome seems to feel its necessary to chase down himself riders who aren't a real threat in the first 10k. Last time, it was Dan Martin. Today, it was Micheal Rogers. Either let them go, or at least let your team ride tempo to keep them in check. But the yellow jersey should not be trying to chase down minor threats who are trying to establish a breakaway at the very start of a hard mtn stage. No wonder he ran put of gas.
I just heard on today's commentary that ben's cousin sep vanmarcke (sp?) had a busted derailleur yesterday up alpe d huez and went up in his 53 ring!! Dam tough!!
Comments
Interesting point yesterday in the 'Ask Bobke' segment on NBC, asking about who the big (tall & heavy) riders are in the Tour, and the name of Eros Poli was mentioned who was like 200lbs and 6.5 ft tall. A powerhouse, but he won what I consider the most beautiful Stage win ever! It was the stage over the Mt Ventoux, he attacked alone in the beginning of the stage and the peloton let him go. He got a max of 27 minutes or so until they started chasing. He started the climb up Ventoux maybe 23 minutes ahead of the peloton and had only a minutes left towards the top. Pretty much managed to maintain his lead in the descent, and eventually won the stage (in tears). So awesome.
I read somewhere yesterday his watts per kg on Ventoux was estimated to be 6.0, a few years ago that didn't get you in the top 10. I think he is probably clean and we are seeing a clean Contador also, who is still good but not quite like doper Contador.
Personally i thought the stage was disappointing but that's only due to the result. I was cheering for the Belkin boys and they had a rough time hanging on.
Looking forward to the Science of Sport blog post on this topic today. Definitely not normal for someone 6'1" and 157lbs to close that fast on a 126lbs climber, and then ride him off his wheel. Not normal at all.
BTW, looking for the link, but Froome's time yesterday from Bedoin to the summit compares very favorably with times put up by Armstrong and Pantani in the doping age, as well as with Contador, Schleck, and Kreuziger in 2009, so very hard to say anything definitive.
Yeah, like those "serious team meetings" USPS used to have. You know, the ones with the locked doors and the blood bags hanging from coat hangers...
I have zero doubt that Sky is on a "program". They're just one step ahead of the testers. And don't get me started on the whole "Richie Porte blew up the day after Ax 3 Domaines, so he must be clean" thing...
I was speaking with Coach Rich last week and he really got me thinking about something interesting. When watching the Tour this year, doesn't it feel like something is missing? It feels like the coverage shrank by about 30 minutes.
Remember all the "B-roll" of Lance Armstrong that they used to show? The packages containing the wins, the training, the sound bites? They are all gone.
I get that he is a doper from a generation of dopers, but it is like he never existed. Rich nailed it for me when he said "They Photoshopped him out of cycling". It is wild. They quite obviously had several meetings and I am sure memos discussing how to handle this. The direction seems to be that he never existed. You can't find a single image of him in the coverage.It's crazy the hole that now exists for a decade in the history of cycling. I think about it whenever I hear them refer to the 100th running of the tour. If they take Lance out of the picture digitally, isn't this really the 93 running of the tour?
So strange. After all, Alberto and other "former" dopes are there. Many think Froome is a doper now (he probably is not). It's wild.
FWIW, I agree with the approach. Lance is the poster boy for damaged goods, but it is still wild to me the institutional effort behind it.1- Cantador saying his hero was Lance (he had his poster on his wall). Both the fact that he said it- and the fact that they still included it.
2- Cav saying "no one". He says he never wanted to be the next X rider. He just always wanted to be the best Mark Cavendish. That's just so Cav!
And somebody explain to me how it is that, magically, Sky had the best two riders in the tour last year, lost one to injury, and basically out of nowhere, has two of the strongest riders in the tour this year? Richie Porte is clearly dogging parts of the stages now in order to not draw attention to himself (he really f'ed it up on Ax 3 Domaines).
BTW, none of this diminishes my interest in the Tour. But I know something is wrong when I'm yelling at Contador to "do something" as he's getting dropped on Ventoux, because I'd just absolutely love to see him take out Froome. If I'm rooting for AC, something has gone horribly wrong...
Exactly how I feel!
My driveby on this thread:
And if Quintana didn't look all that worked when he popped you clearly didn't see the video right after he crossed the line.
Agree with the Lance thing, it's plain stupid to pretend he was never there.
http://www.teambelkin.com/whats-happening/recharging-the-battery-1089
Contador can't "do something" since all the beef has not been imported from Spain
. To be honest, I haven't seen a single kick out of him yet. Hopefully in the Alps just to make it exciting, but he's got no pop!! Evans is the old self---don't know where his magic to win that one tour came from, but he's never looked like that again nor did he look like that previously. Schleck didn't even make it close to the tree line...hmmm. While I love the tour, I wonder what it's going to take to actually have an epic battle---Wiggins vs. Froome if one of them splits from Sky?
So if you want to see battles - forget about stage races and watch the European Classics with Het Nieuwsblad, Kuurne, Tour of Flanders, E3 Harelbeke, Gent - Wevelgem, Paris - Roubaix, Liege - Bastogne - Liege, Fleche Wallone, Amstel Gold race, San Sebastian, Tour of Lombardy and Paris-Tours.
So wild watching Alberto and Froome go down on the descent....
----TOP 50 LIST
-1. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Chris Froome _________ GBR | 48:35 | 2013
-3. Andy Schleck _________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-4. Alberto Contador _____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-5. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-6. Marco Pantani ________ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-8. Frank Schleck ________ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-9. Nairo Quintana _______ COL | 49:04 | 2013
10. Roman Kreuziger ______ CZE | 49:05 | 2009
#1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 have been busted for doping. #10 admits that he works with Ferarri. That leaves Andy Schleck and Chris Froome...
I'm just saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
That, combined with this analysis of Ventoux
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/55448828865/2013-tdf-ventoux-dpvam-dpw-kg-and-they-stay-there
and this analysis of Ax 3 Domaines
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/54770388624/tour-de-france-2013-stage-8-dpvam-ax3-warning-shot
Leaves me highly suspicious. Not proof, but remember, we never had 'proof' of Armstrong, either, but it didn't stop David Walsh from calling it like he saw it.
Is it also worth noting that some of those guys are not contenders as much after getting caught. Andy Schleck comes to mind.
BTW, I heard the words "Lance Armstrong" last night during the broadcast...first time I had heard him mentioned.
There was a bunch of discussion before hand about whether the teams would be riding their TT bikes, their road bikes, their aero-road bikes, whether they'd have clip-ons or road bikes with full TT bars and we pretty much saw every variation of that.
Lot of riders road a road bike for the first big climb and technical descent, then swapped to time trial bikes. Seemed like a lot of others just stuck with aero-road and clip ons. The Garmin guys were an interesting lot, the P5 is undoubtedly aero but also quite heavy for a stage like this. As expected, we saw some of the guys like Talansky riding the S5 but with a dedicated TT cockpit. Giving you near the performance of a TT bike but in a lighter package.
Same dilemma on the helmet front. Lots of aero road helmets instead of full blown TT helmets, and saw a lot of variation in the guys who did wear TT helmets-- mostly in that they ditched the visors.
Coming from someone who tends to like the bikes more than the people who ride them, today was a good day.
A continuing mystery to me is why Froome seems to feel its necessary to chase down himself riders who aren't a real threat in the first 10k. Last time, it was Dan Martin. Today, it was Micheal Rogers. Either let them go, or at least let your team ride tempo to keep them in check. But the yellow jersey should not be trying to chase down minor threats who are trying to establish a breakaway at the very start of a hard mtn stage. No wonder he ran put of gas.