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John B's micro thread

Patrick,

I am in week 17 of the int. IM plan, and am racing Lake Placid in a few more weeks.

As we talked about last monday on the phone, I had an embarassing yet very painful trip and fall during my long run the Thursday (June 20th) after the camp.  Since then the pain in my ribs is mostly gone, but the tenderness/soreness in the back of my right ankle/achilles is still lingering.  I thought it was gone and did the long run last Thursday the 27th, and it was stiff at first and loosened up, but I must have tweeked it at about 13-1/2 miles where there was a sharp incline on the trail, and when the pain came back I stopped about 1/2 mile later. 

I was able to ride the bike with this over the weekend, and the 4-1/2 hour and 3-1/2 hour rides actually went pretty well even though this is not 100%.  I swam on Friday, but skipped the running on Friday and Saturday.  My question is, since I would MUCH rather be injury free on July 28th, perhaps through this week to swap out any of the run workouts with bike workouts to not risk this flaring up or getting worse?.  Makes sense right? 

So....instead of the Tuesday and Thursday Run workouts what would you recommend doing with the bike?  My thought is perhaps intervals on Tuesday, and another long ride for Thursday (2-3 hours at just above race pace=Z2)?  And looking forward to the weekend, perhaps add some time to the weekend rides to make up for no run satruday?  Or at some point is enough enough.?

Thank you for your help.

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Comments

  • @John, first of all go to www.athletestreatingathletes.com and make sure you are taking good care of that area. That's a top priority...just not doing anything for it won't necessarily make it better. image

    I suggest that you ride Tues / Thursday / Sat / Sun....Thurs and Sun are ABP, with Thurs being between 75 and 90 minutes. Then Mon/Wed/Fri are swim only....maybe do some deep water running after your swim?
  • Thanks,
    Sounds Good. I will work on it this week, and hope to be back to "normal" next week.

  • Patrick,
    Just an update, still not back to "normal" with the achilles tendonitis, but I am working on it. I was able to get in touch with Leigh through the A.T.A. site and got some great advice & treatment routine. Also have an appointment with Doctor to get this checked out and possilble A.R.T. treatment for tomorrow morning.

    For this week, as long as things go well with the Dr., I was looking to mimick last week with the riding instead of running and continue the treatment on the leg.
    As for the RR#2 for Saturday....If I am not able to run on it, I would still be looking to do the 6 hour/100 mile ride regardless...right?

    I rode the 4.5 & 3.5 hour rides this weekend, and it only really gave me an "issue" when it tightened up after I got off the bike and was putting things away....in hind sight and moving forward I now know I need to get off the bike and spend time streching out this area before bothering with putting the bike away and cleaning up. Live and Learn.

    Thanks,
    John
  • John, yes to repeating last week and not running off the RR. Leigh was telling me you are in...she's great, let's get you right!!
  • Racing IMLP this Sunday.
    Achilles is doing much better and is ready. Ran on Saturday after the Saturday morning bike ride and it felt pretty good, with no after effects.

    I will be in LP Wednesday. Was thinking of riding one loop Wednesday afternoon (without the out and back portions) about 40m +/- in very low zone 1. To make sure all the pot holes are right where I remember them, instead of the Thursday Ride.

    Or just stick to the plan?

    Thank you.

  • John–I think that's too much too close to the race. If you don't have someone who can follow you around and take you from the bottom of the descent over to the start of the climb in Jay, I suggest you plan on riding the course backwards out of town. I would skip Haselton Rd, and head right over to Jay. Flip it there and come back. A large portion of the right out of downtown is downhill, which is 0 cost. Maybe on Friday, you can do the descent if you want to.
  • hey patrick.
    1. what is with the gas can symbol? looks yellow on my computer which would actually make it for diesel fuel.?

    2. I am in week 2 of Bike Focus Int. plan currently. For last few weeks having issue with my hip/abductors/groin area. No pain at all during or after riding bike on trainer but I have been avoiding running on it for about a week now and stretching exercises with roller and it is feeling a little better but there is no sense in pushing it. Would rather take more time and let it get better.

    What would you suggest in place of a couple of the run workouts, in terms of an extra bike workout or two? My thought was since what is already in teh plan is Z4 and some Z5 intervals....to add one or two 60 minute rides mostly Z2 or Z3?

    Thanks.
    John
  • @John it's a plastic "jerry" can, what people in the developing world use to collect water. Or rather, what women and young girls use. Part of my charity run on my birthday...click on it for info.

    As for the hip, you are smart to back off but we need to be careful as riding -- esp on a tri bike -- can contribute to a tight hip flexor. You need to roll it / stretch it 2x a day, every day. If you haven't already, please head over to www.athletestreatingathletes.com ... the resources there are top notch.

    I wouldn't want more hard riding...but I will take some steady Zone 2 riding with last 1/3 of the ride in Zone 3. That said, I'd rather you find a yoga class and get immersed...we want to fix this before we head into race prep!
  • Hey, Hope you guys are doing well.

    This coming week will be week 7 of INT IM plan.
    I was planning on running in a local half marathon on Saturday morning.

    Would you suggest doing a moderate ride on Thursday instead of the scheduled Long Run?, or do the Friday "easy" run on Thursday to be able to rest up for Saturday?
    And would I look to move the Saturday Ride to Sunday? OR just wait to see how I feel Sunday morning, and do either the Saturday or Sunday Ride on Sunday depending on how I feel.?

    Thanks.
  • I like the second option. Thursday is Fridays easy run, Friday is off. Saturday is your race, and Sunday do as much of the Saturday ride as you can, as close to the intensity but not trying to kill yourself.
  • Thanks Patrick.
    Felt fresh and rested. Warmed up easy about 20 minutes, and stretching felt good, my recent aches and pains in hip were nonexistent.

    about 30' prior to start walked over and stood in line for restroom about 15 minutes, then jogged around just a little more....right calf had a very slight tightness, so i stopped and rubbed it to try to massage it out and stretched it out.
    Race started and I flet ok, but calf was getting tight by about mile 1, just before mile 2 through the distance of about 50 yards with each step it got tighter and tighter, I slowed a little and then that one step came where I stopped totally and could not put my foot down and push off of it at all. I tried in vein for about 10 minutes on the side of the road to loosen it up but my half marathon was totally over and I was not walking 11 miles to do more damage. So much for never say die...hahahahaha.

    I was able to hobble a short distance back to the truck and put compression socks on, and went and found first aid people and got some ice for a little while. I iced and elevated it a lot of Saturday and Sunday (totally skipped any bike ride today) and now at the end of Sunday it is feeling "better" than it did yesterday.

    So I will call my local orthopedic doctor Monday morning and try to get an appointment asap.
    I am sure we both agree until I know what the diagnosis is, it might be prudent to rest it as much as I can in this first week, but I will do the swimming workouts since I do not kick much in the pool and can push off the wall with the other leg.

    I will let ya know in a couple of days where we are at with this, and we can come up with the best way to move ahead until i can run on it again...assuming it might be a few weeks.
  • Totally bummed about it, but you made the right decision. Always better to be safe than sorry.

    Please let me know what the doc says, we can adjust for anything. I will be at camp later this week, but when you're ready book a call with me: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann
  • Ok, while it is still in my head.
    Went to Therapy with doctor on Monday, and today (Thursday), and will go again tomorrow (Friday).
    spoke with doctor about anticipated duration of no running. He said based on how things are looking now, no running this week and no running for two more weeks.

    This week I got in a good swim Monday & tonight, and will plan to go tomorrow (Friday).
    I should be able to do the scheduled Saturday and Sunday rides and based on what should be good weather could extend the duration of those.

    Good luck this weekend, and next week we can look at how to hack the runs out of the next two weeks and input more riding the bike.

    Thanks.
  • Deal! Stay positive!!
  • Ok
    This week is week 9 of INTermediate IM Plan.

    I was able to do some good riding on the bike Friday, Saturday and Sunday and the calf and lower leg was ok.
    Went to therapy on Friday and will go again today after work. In the big Picture it is feeling a million times better than it did last Saturday so we are going in the right direction.


    Now for this week (since looking at no running this week or next) What are we looking to modify.
    I will plan to swim at the Pool tonight (Monday)
    Tuesday Interval Run (exchange for ??)
    Wednesday is a Bike
    Thursday Long Run (exchange for ??)
    Friday
    Saturday (without the run do we want to extend the ride a little?)


    Thank you for your help, hope you are recovered from your trip.

    John.
  • Sorry for this ...too many returns meant I didn't see part two!! :)

    In general a no-run week means FTP bikes on Tuesday and Thursday, with weekend as planned (no runs) and then swim/aquajog on mon/wed/Friday.

    In your case I'd FTP today, abp ride tomorrow, swim Friday, sat/sun bikes as planned. If you can do a long hike over the weekend (Sunday) without jeopardizing your recovery, go for it!!!
  • UNfortunately Still Dealing with the calf issue, I have been riding and swimming. Continuing the treatments twice a week on the calf, and have only run on it a few times with mixed results. Each time very easy pace with plenty of warm up, a couple times with no pain at all, and a couple of times it felt like back to square one. Doctor will be doing a re evaluation today to see what to do next.

    But I shall continue doing the Bike on Tuesday & Thursday & Saturday & Sunday. I have added about 30 minutes to the weekend rides, nothing to crazy but I felt like I am not doing enough. And have tried to go for some walking after riding the bike just to keep the muscles moving. While there is no real substitute for actually running I think we still have some time prior to IM Lake Placid for this to get better.

    See you in Lake Placid Next week
  • John -

    Thanks for the update. While there's no substitute for actually running, water running or aqua jogging is pretty darn good exercise. It won't fix your calf but it certainly an keep you in the groove. I hope you checked out those resources in the wiki. Looking forward to next week.
  • Been good since returning from the lake placid camp.
    On doctors approval, I went for 1st run on solid ground in 4 weeks. It was short only 2 miles but the leg felt good. Hope to back to running form soon, but taking it slow.

    Aquabike at Challenge Atlantic City this Sunday.

    Looking to Swim and do a short ride 20-30 minutes Friday just to make sure bike is ok.
    Saturday = relax.
    Sunday = 2.4 swim, and 112 bike...pretty flat plan to ride hard the second half.

    Easy Swim Monday
    and See how the legs feel Tuesday. If ok a short run and back to normal schedule Next Wednesday.

    Does that sound Reasonable.?

    Thank you.
  • Yes, that sounds great. of course reminded to make a change given how the weekend plays out for you, but we can touch base online.

    Remember you need to fuel the race before and on the bike is if you're doing the whole thing. A 112 mile effort is still no joke, and I want you to be 100% ready. Nutrition is a huge part of that.
  • Hey Patrick,
    I started Running again last week, and the leg feels good so far. I have kept the intensity down and the Long runs last week and this week were only 5 and 8 miles, but at least the leg felt ok and did not revolt later in the day from the effort.

    My plan would be to continue to run on the scheduled days for the next couple weeks till lake placid, just at an easier effort than scheduled...and keep the long run a little shorter and scheduled.?

    Thanks,
    talk to ya next week.
    John

  • Perfect. Consistency is the key here, nothing else.
  • Hey Patrick



    Currently 12 of the outseason Plan.

    I backed off the running last week, when following the Sunday long run in week 10 when I felt some tightness in my right calf (the same one I injured last year). I tried the easy run after this bike this past Saturday and it was starting to flare up again so I skipped the long run Sunday (yesterday) and used the time to roll it out and work on it.



    My thought (QUESTION) for this week was to Move the Tuesday - Thursday - Saturday bike rides in the OS plan forward and do them Monday & Wednesday & Friday and try to get in the pool to Swim at least twice in between?. And see how the leg feels by the end of the week before I try to run on it again?. HOW DOES THIS SOUND WITH YOU?



    Prior to this recent flare up my running was feeling really good, but on the day that started it all.....it was nice out but about 3 miles into it a heavy rain started and i got soaked and cold for the last 5 miles and not wanting to take my foot off the gas finished those miles a lot faster than I really should have. https://www.strava.com/activities/236589515

    I think the cold & soaking wet compression sock on the muscle, and not stretching it out enough afterwards compounded into this coming back up again.



    Long term I know that I need to use my training paces as more of a speed limit (not to exceed) and not as a target to meet or Crush. Of course I have learned this lesson in the past, I listened to the "I wanna go fast" voice in my head when I would normally ignore it.



    Thanks. Have a safe trip to Florida later this week.



    John.
  • John - the adjustment is good...we go 4 bikes, no runs that week. And we learn a great lesson about the rest of our year. Don't mess with the calf! Please roll it out and keep me posted!
  • So far so good. The bike rides last week and so far this week went well. Thinking it was totally gone, I tried to run on it easy yesterday. It felt fine but flared up around 3 miles but was not totally debilitating...just not 100%. So I finished the 5 miles and spend the rest of the day really taking care of it.
    Lessons Learned.....
    #1. just cause it felt good I should have planned on only running 2 or 3 miles at the most....even though it was on the nice soft boardwalk.
    #2. Just cause I have not been running and moved the training plan ahead one day....I did the 5x5' z5 bike workout the night before and the plan called for a rest day. REST days are in the sequence for a reason and I forget that to often.

    I will keep the rides going and stay off of running on it in another few days.

    On a good note it got me to get into the pool 3 times last week and so far 2 times this week....hahaha. After 3 months of barely swimming, I am not far off from where I was last summer.

    I'll let ya know next week how it goes. But with next week the test week at the end of the OS, I will do the bike test and skip the run test.
  • John, we are all still learning, never forget that. Your "teacher" just has you on a really short leash right now. I like the swim / bike focus and let's see if we can't make some magic happen as we wait for your run to come around. Keep it up!
  • Ok. I think we are back in business with the calf issue. I ran easy on it on Sunday, and yesterday(Tuesday). I am now in week one of swim camp plan and will go easy pace on it this week and next week to make sure this is now under control.
    This sounds reasonable right? So I can start the next training block confident this is over and we are injury free and ready to go.

  • Sounds PERFECT! Let's just keep rolling it and taking care of it as you go. It won't fix itself!!

    Ps -- thanks for the LP camp sign up!
  • Hey Patrick.
    Still moving along....Running the last couple of weeks and just not pushing the pace., and the calf has been feeling ok. still rolling and working it, still a little tight sometimes...I am also being super careful with it. Was tempted to really push it today when 38 degrees & no wind in Spring Lake and Belmar felt like a spring day, but kept it under control and overall feel good with week 2 of the GF plan done. (all of it actually).

    This coming week.(starting Monday 2/23) is week 3 of the GF plan. Since I am leaving Saturday morning to go on the ski trip to Steamboat Springs, my thinking was to just bump each of the 3 rides this coming week forward one day so that I can still get in the big Saturday ride on Friday (since I am off from work on Friday anyways).

    Monday Ride & Swim
    Tuesday Run
    Wednesday Ride & Swim
    Thursday Run
    Friday Ride (the saturday big ride) & Swim
    Saturday Travel

    I am thinking of how to plan a couple of things the week I am away, but am happy with the work I did this week (more than 10 hours) and if this week goes well, I do not see anything wrong in backing off a little since I will be skiing all day each of the 6 days I am there. Makes sense right.?
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