Coach - I did as instructed . Nothing on Thursday or Friday (was tempted to do the RR swim Friday, but napped instead). I rode 1:48 at 0.67 IF today. Legs felt better, but honestly, still not "right". Was having to push a little to stay at 0.7 (normally not the case first first few hours for me). I was not tempted to try any Z3 stuff either.
About an hour later (kid stuff intervened) I ran 30mins, Z1 at 80 degrees. Felt OK, but not as easy as Z1 usually is (I usually have to really reign myself in....this was more of a JRA run that happened to be Z1). Calves/ankles stiff, but nothing major.
So, what do I do now? Is that about what I should feel like? Should I feel "fresh" and have "snappy" legs? My HR was about where it usually is. My gut tells me to do nothing. Maybe a couple of light/short runs next week or something and maybe a couple of swims?
Light light light. Swim as you want (cap at 30') and toucan run up to 30'. Nothing hard or fast here...just keeping the engines warm. Lots of hydration, sleep, etc.
Sorry to bother you with this, but I'm not sure what to do, what is going on with my "body". Finished IMTX 19 days ago. Have biked 3 times. Last two in the past week, I tried to push (ABP basically) esp up hills. Not good....I'm about 15-20W down from pre-race it appears (RPE and HR much higher than expected for watts I'm seeing).
Ran 40mins totally easy late last week (not even with Garmin). Coach R has me starting GF plan in wk 3 this week, but said I could "back off" as needed etc....but I don't know what I'm doing! So, tonight, I felt very positive and wanted to do the 2 x 1mi and 2 x 1/2mi TP intervals in a 60min run. I only attempted the 2 x 1's. They were really hard, and I could not quite hold Z4 (ended up ~20" slower than prescribed) with HR ~15bpm higher than usual. Then I JRA for the remaining 25mins....but much slower than usual for the back half of a TP run, and HR 25bpm higher than usual. RPE off the charts! Hardest 60min run I have done in a long time.
My obvious question is "is this normal"/expected? Still?....Really? I was surprised to feel as crappy as I did...no pain/aches...just legs felt like mush and "dead". It is is definitely hotter in San Antonio now c/w pre-IMTX taper time, which may have something to do with it...but this is definitely more than just heat effect.
What I'm wondering/concerned about is that I have "lost" power on the bike and speed on the run (during long build to IMTX, taper, then post race time off). I've got IMMD on Sep 21. Will I be able to recover this power/speed in the next 4 weeks, before IM plan starts back up? Maybe I should do a shortened IM build (8wks or 10wks), allowing more time to build some fast before adding the far? I really feel like I lost some power/speed in the last month of the IMTX build. I know some of that is expected....but I'm slow and can't afford to lose any! On a positive note, I have not gained ANY weight!
I'm hiking a 14000' mountain in Colorado with a 30pound pack with my two oldest boys next week....so some of this may take care of itself?!!
Jeff -- the Post IM plan is meant to last four weeks for a reason. I don't think you could four weeks yet! Everyone responds to the work differently and it's not surprising to me that you're in a hole right now. Remember this is the first time here!!
After all you're not just recovering from the race, but months of hard work. It's not that you permanently lost fitness, your body is just not able to do the work required to put up those numbers. A sign you need more rest. I would go back to Coach Rich to let him know that you're not ready for the get fast and see what your other options are.
You commented on Strava on my JOS wk1 TT. You mentioned that you thought I might need a better warmup? My Garmin will not upload that particular file, but I ran 1.5 miles, building from easy to Z2/3 over that time frame. I did two ~30" strides towards the end, then just cruised for a minute before starting the TT. I don't usually stop running, I just hit lap and then go for 3.11 miles, trying to pace what I think I can hold. This is not much different than the recommended warmup. I felt ready so skipped the last two strides. I'm constantly trying to figure out why I can't run a 5K any faster, and so this time I decided to limit my warmup a couple of minutes to see if I might do better if a little more "fresh".
Most of my prior attempts have been bad because I've started too fast....starting at the pace I'd LIKE to see when I finish, but cannot in reality hold for 22-23minutes (discovered retrospectively). So, this time, I purposefully backed off on my guestimate. I felt good (better than usual for a 5k TT at least!) and felt I could push the last mile or so faster as I finished mile 2. But, when I tried, it just wouldn't happen. My HR during the last mile was 162. When I get over 160, my experience is that things start to go bad pretty quickly (nausea, form completely falls apart, 10/10 pain, etc.). I also think I need to do them at a track next time. My neighbor hood loop has a 4% grade hill that I think I have underestimated the impact it may have (definitely have to either slow down or "burn a match" on it).
So, although I'm not happy with the result of this TT, I honestly think I executed pretty well. My PR was one year ago at this same time of year, but is only 22:07. I did IMTX and Austin HIM (late October) and then recovered a couple of weeks and then did a 6wk run focus in late Nov/Dec (per Rich). So, I'm a little bummed that I haven't gotten ANY faster. I haven't had ANY injuries. I haven't taken off more than a month after IMTX and two weeks after Austin. I don't hit ALL my workouts, but most of them. You see me on Strava right?
This (lack of improvement in running) might be ok, if my FTP had increased a bunch.But, nooooooo, that hasn't happened either. My FTP is ~10W higher I'd say, compared with last year at this time (hard to tell with outdoor and indoor tests, which are always 10-15W different for me). Now, I do feel I can hold a higher IF with less damage than I could a year or two, which helps my run.
My Austin HIM run was 1:50:30...after a 0.75IF bike with VI of 1.08 (I know....not good!). It was 85-88 degrees too.
Attackpoint says my open HIM time prediction based off my 23:00 5K is a 1:45:46. That 5K was done at 40+ degrees. Seems to me (perhaps I'm wrong), that if I ran a 1:50 HIM at 88 degrees, I ought to be able to do better than 1:46 in 40 degrees?
Based off this, do you think I should do 10K TTs instead of 5Ks? Or do you think this all makes sense?....and I just need to stop analyzing and just run as told! I'm not an experienced runner (been really running only 2 to 2.5yrs now, with no prior cross country/marathon/etc. experience at all). I don't know what to do. Just guessing.
The other things I think I need to do better are: 1) run more often....not longer, just at least 4-5x/week. I've honestly been more of a 3-4x/week guy (4 when in race prep, 3 the rest of the time). and 2) run my easy miles slower (80/20 concept). I've considered reading that 80/20 book. I've heard a lot lately about the fallacy of running the "easy" parts of runs too fast. For example, on a typical 2 x 1 mi run, I'll run the first one increasing from LRP to MP, then the two intervals (with MP or slightly slower between), and then a couple more around MP. I'm not "pushing" to MP....it just feels natural and I'd have to slow down purposefully otherwise. Is it possible that I just don't have a 5K TT "gear"! Or am I actually doing these correctly or as most folks do?
I'm sorry this is so long. I had no intention of writing a novel when I started . Feel free to critique my runs on Strava (publically....I don't care....I just want to run like you!) or however else you like. Or just tell me how to warm up better next time....which is all you actually offered to do! Thanks. Jeff.
10' easy zone 1- Zone 2. 12' in Zone 3 pace. 3' easy jog. Shake it out, loosen up, then run after a few minutes.
I think the 4% hill is too much...I'd pick a friendlier test space, and as for pacing, I take my goal time and make it descending. If I want an 8:00 pace, I go 8:15, 8:05, 7:55...then let it fly as much as I can in that last mile.
As for run times, how is your body comp been -- that's usually a big delta. Not to mention fatigue at different times of year, etc. Sometimes even the same 5k test loop is Apples to Oranges.
Yes you should be able to run a faster half marathon but the fact you didn't bike for a few hours before the half would be more of a factor than the temperature, methinks.
If you can get to 5 runs consistently: Wed/Sunday as planned, Tues/Thurs/Sat as shorter ones, I'd be happy. As a "new" runner you'll benefit from more time running...even a 2-3 mile run is worthwhile as it's the time running not just a distance. I think if you are following the pace zones we have you'll be okay, let's focus on the frequency first and go from there!
I'm in week 7 of Jan OS, Intermediate. Testing next week. You mentioned a better warmup previously (see below), and I will do definitely do that this time. I will also run it at one of my kids high school track.
The 5K TT is hard for me to understand vs. the mile repeats we do twice a week. For example, Z4 for me currently (based off my last 5k TT and thus vDot) is 7:57. This is just not hard at all to do as 2x1 or even 3x1 (4'). I have been running them all at Z5....not TRYING to run Z5 pace. I just run the first 1/4 to 1/2 mile at mod-hard and then look at my lap pace....it's usually around 7:30. But, I'm not dying or huffing/puffing or feeling like I'm running a 5K TT, so I just keep running mod-hard. You can see all my recent runs on Strava (wed and sundays with the mile repeats). I ran three one mile repeats tonight, all at <7:30....not difficult, but not easy....8/10 on my RPE scale I'd say.</p>
So...I've been running 2-3 mile Z5 repeats on Wed and 1x2 Z4 plus 2x1 Z5 and then some Z2 each sunday. I'm not having any trouble with the Z4 or VO2 sets on the bike. So, I don't feel like I've been over-running my zones and digging myself into a hole.
YET....in order to run a faster 5K next week, I have to run 7:10 or better for 3 miles with no rest between miles! This just does not (and never has) made sense to me. It's not the same as what we do on the bike (2x20(4')) which will then lead to a good chance to do 2x20(2') test the next week and get an FTP bump. So, I think I have a mental block here! My brain is saying....you can't run 3 straight miles at 7:00 or 7:10 for 3 straight miles if you've only been doing ~7:20-7:30 miles x 2 or 3 with rest between each mile (not even considering the fact that I should have been running these at 7:57!).
I've digressed...sorry. Can you look at my Strava runs or the diatribe above and recommend a pacing strategy for me? Or should I just hit start (after the good warmup you prescribed below) and then run 3.1miles as fast as I can (not starting out stupid fast though) and not even look at the dang Garmin until that third mile is done? Do you think I should try to do 7:10, 7:00, then hold on to whatever is left the last one?....or is that too aggressive? Or should I just do it by RPE and then look at the results when I'm done?
Sorry for the length of this document....I just am really tired of feeling like I underperform every 5K I've tried. Thanks. jeff
Jeff, thanks for the feedback. I get what you are saying...on paper it makes no sense...but I don't train you just for running. I expect bike and swim gains as well...and have to account for the cumulative stress of your week.
And the fact that the mile repeats aren't killing you by #3 is a sure sign your fitness is up there.
We also have to remember that at some point running harder is more dangerous. On the bike, overachieving incrementally in an interval set has a very low cost compared to running harder.
I suggest you do the following:
Get a good warm up in, including a few 30" pick ups to 7:00-7:10 pace just so you feel that effort.
Plan on your first lap at about 7:15 pace, and use the garmin for that to make sure you are in check.
Lap two is around 7:00 pace...but I'll see anything between 7:00 and 7:10s...
After lap two, you look away from the Garmin. Time to suck it up and enter a new world of hurt as you build the effort up and really try and see what you can do here. Be ready to hit that stop button when you hit 3.1...and then we can reflect back on what you have achieved!!!!
Congrats on the tremendous race at IMTX. I'm preparing for IMC, finishing wk 13 today. Due to work/call, I have to do my "camp week" in wk 16 instead of 15. I thought I saw somewhere that that was ok, but now I can't find it and am freaking out a little. Questions:
1) Is it OK to do it in wk 16? I'm just staying home and took Friday off of work. Plan for RR swim on Thursday evening, 112/6 on Friday. 112 on Saturday. 135min run on Sunday (crap....that sounds not fun). Is that right?
2) If #1 is ok, then I'd just use the guidance for MY wk 17 in the wk 16 of the plan re taking mon off, tues light swim, and then resume the usual daily beatings?
3) Wk 17 FTP test? Will see how I feel .
Thanks in advance for your advice. I assume you're going to Placid that same day right?
Jeff, thanks. Yes, you can totally swap it forward, it's more about keeping the recovery week after it so that you'll be better...I am not worried about that FTP test...your Camp Weekend Rides should give you a much better indication of a good IF and Heart Rate for you to follow...
Where will you do camp week? I'll have to follow you on Strava...
Need some nutrition/gut advice please. IMC in 2 wks. First RR was done in excessive heat and I couldn't run off the bike (had some major mojo/motivation/almost quit problems, mental breakdown), but also was really nauseated. In case you're not aware, IMC is only offering regular gatorade on course (apparently only U.S. races will have gatorade endurance (GE) ). I had been using GE in prep for the past few months, before finding out a month or so ago that only regular gatorade will be on course.
IMTX 2014 I used perform and perform gels only....worked perfectly. No gut issues whatsoever and ran the whole marathon. The GE seemed to be working fine, but I never tried to do a RR with it. So, for first RR, I used first three bottles GE (what I can carry on race day too) and then switched to gatorade + salt sticks. Did not work well, ended up nauseated and couldn't run (vomited in fact). I thought it was probably the salt sticks. So, for RR2, I eliminated salt sticks. First three bottles were GE, then regular gatorade plus my usual one gel/hour. Felt ok until I started to run. About 3 miles in (running at Z1+30") I got nauseated again. Vomited (a little at mile 4), then just finished without drinking any more.
So, In summary....
First RR with gatorade + salt sticks + powerbar gel/hr in heat (95+ in full sun at start, cooling to upper 70's by end) --> couldn't run/nausea
Second RR with gatorade + powerbar gel/hr in heat (similar heat/sun) --> bad run, nausea/vomiting/no way I can run a marathon like this.
My next "idea" is your trick....gatorlyte solution. I recall you used to make a solution of gatorlytes and squirt it into your cups on the run? Right? My thought is to try to re-create gatorade endurance from on course gatorade. It's a little bit of a PIA, but I can just carry a flask or two on the bike and one on the run and maybe have on in run SN bag? Or do you think I should go back to salt sticks + gatorade?
I know it's a cardinal sin to try something new on race day, but when both RR have been a nutritional fail, what's a guy to do?!
Advice? By the way, I did NOT overcook the bike....IF 0.66 (targeting 0.67) for 108miles in 6:00 with ~3500ft climbing (VI 1.05), TSS 258.7.
If you think the salt sticks are the way to go, I'll do that. If you think the gatorlyte solution is a better idea, do you have any tips/tricks for how to make a solution that will squirt out of one of those little flasks easily?
I totally know what you mean…when I have to go “regular G” I almost always get the burps.
So, let’s do some quick math…
GE has twice the sodium and three times the potassium (300mg Sodium and 140mg Potassium) of RG.
Therefore Regular Gatorade has 150mg Sodium and 50mg Potassium.
BUT… One gatorlyte packet has 780mg Sodium and 400 mg potassium. Just too much.
So 1/3 of a gatorlyte packet would convert a 20oz of RG into GE.
So I suggest you fill up a fuelbelt flask with a known quantity of water…usually 8oz. Then see how many “full” squirts you get out…do like 3 trials and average them out. I’ll guess like 6…so if you put two Gatorlytes in there, each squirt would be exactly the 1/3 packet required...so you could start with IM Perform in 3 bottles as Core Diet recommends…then as you transition to RG, every time you put one in your aero bottle you give it a squirt.
IF you start with 3 Perform, then 6 squirts would get you 4.5 hours assuming 2 bottles an hour. Or about 6 hours of ride time. You could always have a few Gatorlytes in your pockets if you need to drink more or do more. Then all you need to do is figure out how to carry the flask safely (test in a jersey pocket) and your SN bag would have an empty one with all the right salt in it to :just add water” should it be required…
Comments
Coach - I did as instructed
. Nothing on Thursday or Friday (was tempted to do the RR swim Friday, but napped instead). I rode 1:48 at 0.67 IF today. Legs felt better, but honestly, still not "right". Was having to push a little to stay at 0.7 (normally not the case first first few hours for me). I was not tempted to try any Z3 stuff either.
About an hour later (kid stuff intervened) I ran 30mins, Z1 at 80 degrees. Felt OK, but not as easy as Z1 usually is (I usually have to really reign myself in....this was more of a JRA run that happened to be Z1). Calves/ankles stiff, but nothing major.
So, what do I do now? Is that about what I should feel like? Should I feel "fresh" and have "snappy" legs? My HR was about where it usually is. My gut tells me to do nothing. Maybe a couple of light/short runs next week or something and maybe a couple of swims?
Coach,
Sorry to bother you with this, but I'm not sure what to do, what is going on with my "body". Finished IMTX 19 days ago. Have biked 3 times. Last two in the past week, I tried to push (ABP basically) esp up hills. Not good....I'm about 15-20W down from pre-race it appears (RPE and HR much higher than expected for watts I'm seeing).
Ran 40mins totally easy late last week (not even with Garmin). Coach R has me starting GF plan in wk 3 this week, but said I could "back off" as needed etc....but I don't know what I'm doing! So, tonight, I felt very positive and wanted to do the 2 x 1mi and 2 x 1/2mi TP intervals in a 60min run. I only attempted the 2 x 1's. They were really hard, and I could not quite hold Z4 (ended up ~20" slower than prescribed) with HR ~15bpm higher than usual. Then I JRA for the remaining 25mins....but much slower than usual for the back half of a TP run, and HR 25bpm higher than usual. RPE off the charts! Hardest 60min run I have done in a long time.
My obvious question is "is this normal"/expected? Still?....Really? I was surprised to feel as crappy as I did...no pain/aches...just legs felt like mush and "dead". It is is definitely hotter in San Antonio now c/w pre-IMTX taper time, which may have something to do with it...but this is definitely more than just heat effect.
What I'm wondering/concerned about is that I have "lost" power on the bike and speed on the run (during long build to IMTX, taper, then post race time off). I've got IMMD on Sep 21. Will I be able to recover this power/speed in the next 4 weeks, before IM plan starts back up? Maybe I should do a shortened IM build (8wks or 10wks), allowing more time to build some fast before adding the far? I really feel like I lost some power/speed in the last month of the IMTX build. I know some of that is expected....but I'm slow and can't afford to lose any! On a positive note, I have not gained ANY weight!
I'm hiking a 14000' mountain in Colorado with a 30pound pack with my two oldest boys next week....so some of this may take care of itself?!!
See below please...also, I've read everything in the wiki on post-race stuff!
After all you're not just recovering from the race, but months of hard work. It's not that you permanently lost fitness, your body is just not able to do the work required to put up those numbers. A sign you need more rest. I would go back to Coach Rich to let him know that you're not ready for the get fast and see what your other options are.
Coach,
You commented on Strava on my JOS wk1 TT. You mentioned that you thought I might need a better warmup? My Garmin will not upload that particular file, but I ran 1.5 miles, building from easy to Z2/3 over that time frame. I did two ~30" strides towards the end, then just cruised for a minute before starting the TT. I don't usually stop running, I just hit lap and then go for 3.11 miles, trying to pace what I think I can hold. This is not much different than the recommended warmup. I felt ready so skipped the last two strides. I'm constantly trying to figure out why I can't run a 5K any faster, and so this time I decided to limit my warmup a couple of minutes to see if I might do better if a little more "fresh".
Most of my prior attempts have been bad because I've started too fast....starting at the pace I'd LIKE to see when I finish, but cannot in reality hold for 22-23minutes (discovered retrospectively). So, this time, I purposefully backed off on my guestimate. I felt good (better than usual for a 5k TT at least!) and felt I could push the last mile or so faster as I finished mile 2. But, when I tried, it just wouldn't happen. My HR during the last mile was 162. When I get over 160, my experience is that things start to go bad pretty quickly (nausea, form completely falls apart, 10/10 pain, etc.). I also think I need to do them at a track next time. My neighbor hood loop has a 4% grade hill that I think I have underestimated the impact it may have (definitely have to either slow down or "burn a match" on it).
So, although I'm not happy with the result of this TT, I honestly think I executed pretty well. My PR was one year ago at this same time of year, but is only 22:07. I did IMTX and Austin HIM (late October) and then recovered a couple of weeks and then did a 6wk run focus in late Nov/Dec (per Rich). So, I'm a little bummed that I haven't gotten ANY faster. I haven't had ANY injuries. I haven't taken off more than a month after IMTX and two weeks after Austin. I don't hit ALL my workouts, but most of them. You see me on Strava right?
This (lack of improvement in running) might be ok, if my FTP had increased a bunch.But, nooooooo, that hasn't happened either. My FTP is ~10W higher I'd say, compared with last year at this time (hard to tell with outdoor and indoor tests, which are always 10-15W different for me). Now, I do feel I can hold a higher IF with less damage than I could a year or two, which helps my run.
My Austin HIM run was 1:50:30...after a 0.75IF bike with VI of 1.08 (I know....not good!). It was 85-88 degrees too.
Attackpoint says my open HIM time prediction based off my 23:00 5K is a 1:45:46. That 5K was done at 40+ degrees. Seems to me (perhaps I'm wrong), that if I ran a 1:50 HIM at 88 degrees, I ought to be able to do better than 1:46 in 40 degrees?
Based off this, do you think I should do 10K TTs instead of 5Ks? Or do you think this all makes sense?....and I just need to stop analyzing and just run as told! I'm not an experienced runner (been really running only 2 to 2.5yrs now, with no prior cross country/marathon/etc. experience at all). I don't know what to do. Just guessing.
The other things I think I need to do better are: 1) run more often....not longer, just at least 4-5x/week. I've honestly been more of a 3-4x/week guy (4 when in race prep, 3 the rest of the time). and 2) run my easy miles slower (80/20 concept). I've considered reading that 80/20 book. I've heard a lot lately about the fallacy of running the "easy" parts of runs too fast. For example, on a typical 2 x 1 mi run, I'll run the first one increasing from LRP to MP, then the two intervals (with MP or slightly slower between), and then a couple more around MP. I'm not "pushing" to MP....it just feels natural and I'd have to slow down purposefully otherwise. Is it possible that I just don't have a 5K TT "gear"! Or am I actually doing these correctly or as most folks do?
I'm sorry this is so long. I had no intention of writing a novel when I started
. Feel free to critique my runs on Strava (publically....I don't care....I just want to run like you!) or however else you like. Or just tell me how to warm up better next time....which is all you actually offered to do! Thanks. Jeff.
10' easy zone 1- Zone 2.
12' in Zone 3 pace.
3' easy jog.
Shake it out, loosen up, then run after a few minutes.
I think the 4% hill is too much...I'd pick a friendlier test space, and as for pacing, I take my goal time and make it descending. If I want an 8:00 pace, I go 8:15, 8:05, 7:55...then let it fly as much as I can in that last mile.
As for run times, how is your body comp been -- that's usually a big delta. Not to mention fatigue at different times of year, etc. Sometimes even the same 5k test loop is Apples to Oranges.
Yes you should be able to run a faster half marathon but the fact you didn't bike for a few hours before the half would be more of a factor than the temperature, methinks.
If you can get to 5 runs consistently: Wed/Sunday as planned, Tues/Thurs/Sat as shorter ones, I'd be happy. As a "new" runner you'll benefit from more time running...even a 2-3 mile run is worthwhile as it's the time running not just a distance. I think if you are following the pace zones we have you'll be okay, let's focus on the frequency first and go from there!
Thanks. Will do.
Coach,
I'm in week 7 of Jan OS, Intermediate. Testing next week. You mentioned a better warmup previously (see below), and I will do definitely do that this time. I will also run it at one of my kids high school track.
The 5K TT is hard for me to understand vs. the mile repeats we do twice a week. For example, Z4 for me currently (based off my last 5k TT and thus vDot) is 7:57. This is just not hard at all to do as 2x1 or even 3x1 (4'). I have been running them all at Z5....not TRYING to run Z5 pace. I just run the first 1/4 to 1/2 mile at mod-hard and then look at my lap pace....it's usually around 7:30. But, I'm not dying or huffing/puffing or feeling like I'm running a 5K TT, so I just keep running mod-hard. You can see all my recent runs on Strava (wed and sundays with the mile repeats). I ran three one mile repeats tonight, all at <7:30....not difficult, but not easy....8/10 on my RPE scale I'd say.</p>
So...I've been running 2-3 mile Z5 repeats on Wed and 1x2 Z4 plus 2x1 Z5 and then some Z2 each sunday. I'm not having any trouble with the Z4 or VO2 sets on the bike. So, I don't feel like I've been over-running my zones and digging myself into a hole.
YET....in order to run a faster 5K next week, I have to run 7:10 or better for 3 miles with no rest between miles! This just does not (and never has) made sense to me. It's not the same as what we do on the bike (2x20(4')) which will then lead to a good chance to do 2x20(2') test the next week and get an FTP bump. So, I think I have a mental block here! My brain is saying....you can't run 3 straight miles at 7:00 or 7:10 for 3 straight miles if you've only been doing ~7:20-7:30 miles x 2 or 3 with rest between each mile (not even considering the fact that I should have been running these at 7:57!).
I've digressed...sorry. Can you look at my Strava runs or the diatribe above and recommend a pacing strategy for me? Or should I just hit start (after the good warmup you prescribed below) and then run 3.1miles as fast as I can (not starting out stupid fast though) and not even look at the dang Garmin until that third mile is done? Do you think I should try to do 7:10, 7:00, then hold on to whatever is left the last one?....or is that too aggressive? Or should I just do it by RPE and then look at the results when I'm done?
Sorry for the length of this document....I just am really tired of feeling like I underperform every 5K I've tried. Thanks. jeff
And the fact that the mile repeats aren't killing you by #3 is a sure sign your fitness is up there.
We also have to remember that at some point running harder is more dangerous. On the bike, overachieving incrementally in an interval set has a very low cost compared to running harder.
I suggest you do the following:
Get a good warm up in, including a few 30" pick ups to 7:00-7:10 pace just so you feel that effort.
Plan on your first lap at about 7:15 pace, and use the garmin for that to make sure you are in check.
Lap two is around 7:00 pace...but I'll see anything between 7:00 and 7:10s...
After lap two, you look away from the Garmin. Time to suck it up and enter a new world of hurt as you build the effort up and really try and see what you can do here. Be ready to hit that stop button when you hit 3.1...and then we can reflect back on what you have achieved!!!!
Coach,
Congrats on the tremendous race at IMTX. I'm preparing for IMC, finishing wk 13 today. Due to work/call, I have to do my "camp week" in wk 16 instead of 15. I thought I saw somewhere that that was ok, but now I can't find it and am freaking out a little. Questions:
1) Is it OK to do it in wk 16? I'm just staying home and took Friday off of work. Plan for RR swim on Thursday evening, 112/6 on Friday. 112 on Saturday. 135min run on Sunday (crap....that sounds not fun). Is that right?
2) If #1 is ok, then I'd just use the guidance for MY wk 17 in the wk 16 of the plan re taking mon off, tues light swim, and then resume the usual daily beatings?
3) Wk 17 FTP test? Will see how I feel
.
Thanks in advance for your advice. I assume you're going to Placid that same day right?
Jeff
Where will you do camp week?
Just doing "camp" from the house on local routes. Continuing to try to hit as many hills as I can to simulate Whistler. ??
Coach,
Need some nutrition/gut advice please. IMC in 2 wks. First RR was done in excessive heat and I couldn't run off the bike (had some major mojo/motivation/almost quit problems, mental breakdown), but also was really nauseated. In case you're not aware, IMC is only offering regular gatorade on course (apparently only U.S. races will have gatorade endurance (GE)
). I had been using GE in prep for the past few months, before finding out a month or so ago that only regular gatorade will be on course.
IMTX 2014 I used perform and perform gels only....worked perfectly. No gut issues whatsoever and ran the whole marathon. The GE seemed to be working fine, but I never tried to do a RR with it. So, for first RR, I used first three bottles GE (what I can carry on race day too) and then switched to gatorade + salt sticks. Did not work well, ended up nauseated and couldn't run (vomited in fact). I thought it was probably the salt sticks. So, for RR2, I eliminated salt sticks. First three bottles were GE, then regular gatorade plus my usual one gel/hour. Felt ok until I started to run. About 3 miles in (running at Z1+30") I got nauseated again. Vomited (a little at mile 4), then just finished without drinking any more.
So, In summary....
First RR with gatorade + salt sticks + powerbar gel/hr in heat (95+ in full sun at start, cooling to upper 70's by end) --> couldn't run/nausea
Second RR with gatorade + powerbar gel/hr in heat (similar heat/sun) --> bad run, nausea/vomiting/no way I can run a marathon like this.
My next "idea" is your trick....gatorlyte solution. I recall you used to make a solution of gatorlytes and squirt it into your cups on the run? Right? My thought is to try to re-create gatorade endurance from on course gatorade. It's a little bit of a PIA, but I can just carry a flask or two on the bike and one on the run and maybe have on in run SN bag? Or do you think I should go back to salt sticks + gatorade?
I know it's a cardinal sin to try something new on race day, but when both RR have been a nutritional fail, what's a guy to do?!
Advice? By the way, I did NOT overcook the bike....IF 0.66 (targeting 0.67) for 108miles in 6:00 with ~3500ft climbing (VI 1.05), TSS 258.7.
If you think the salt sticks are the way to go, I'll do that. If you think the gatorlyte solution is a better idea, do you have any tips/tricks for how to make a solution that will squirt out of one of those little flasks easily?
Thanks in advance. Jeff
So, let’s do some quick math…
GE has twice the sodium and three times the potassium (300mg Sodium and 140mg Potassium) of RG.
Therefore Regular Gatorade has 150mg Sodium and 50mg Potassium.
BUT… One gatorlyte packet has 780mg Sodium and 400 mg potassium. Just too much.
So 1/3 of a gatorlyte packet would convert a 20oz of RG into GE.
So I suggest you fill up a fuelbelt flask with a known quantity of water…usually 8oz. Then see how many “full” squirts you get out…do like 3 trials and average them out. I’ll guess like 6…so if you put two Gatorlytes in there, each squirt would be exactly the 1/3 packet required...so you could start with IM Perform in 3 bottles as Core Diet recommends…then as you transition to RG, every time you put one in your aero bottle you give it a squirt.
IF you start with 3 Perform, then 6 squirts would get you 4.5 hours assuming 2 bottles an hour. Or about 6 hours of ride time. You could always have a few Gatorlytes in your pockets if you need to drink more or do more. Then all you need to do is figure out how to carry the flask safely (test in a jersey pocket) and your SN bag would have an empty one with all the right salt in it to :just add water” should it be required…