@Mr Johnson please look at my ride from today on the NOS ride thread. Also I hope you are eating. Losing weight through crash dieting is not the way to build FTP.
Damn good to be back on the horse. 2 x 12' for me thank you very much. Plus 30' at work on the treadmill.
I'm with Al...recovery gets to be very important as I'm about to turn 59. Still I'm the youngest 59 anyone around here will ever see.
FWIW my day off protocol is usually 30-60 minutes of yoga. Just fell in love with it about 45 days ago. I'm using Yoga Studio on the iPad and highly recommend. This is the first time I have looked forward to and been consistent in flexibility work.
@ Al and William, why are we doing 2x12 and you guys are doing 2x15 or 2x18?
Anyway, I did my 2x12 at 100% plus a lot of Z3. Overshot the time mark and went 1 hr 35 mins (TSS = 97.5) because I was watching Jet Li kick butt in Kiss of the Dragon. No way to cut that short and not see the bad guys get their just reward. Did a brick run right after.
@paul ...and my "intermediate IM" has me doing 2X10' today..... are you 'all using advanced, super advanced and super-duper advanced plans? ....just curious as to the variations I see out there.
@ Al and William, why are we doing 2x12 and you guys are doing 2x15 or 2x18
D/t my season planning, looking forward to IM CDA, I started the OS in Dec, and am now on week 7 of the intermediate plan. This is the first year I've gone with the INT, and I'm glad I did. I changed because I had been finding the bike ramp up (though not the run) to be unmanageable last year, AND my IM time went above 11 hours for the first time. I will go on hold for the next two weeks while skiing, and will do 6-7 more weeks of OS before the Tucson Rally, then drop into the IM plan.
Also, I'm hacking the run to get ready for Boston April 21 , so my long runs are longer.
Cant find it in the wiki... any thoughts or "official" parameters/goals for TSS? I thought I read somewhere that pro level rarely go above 200 total (bike) TSS/week except in key bike focus blocks {seems low-maybe that was per WO?}. If so I may have over training issues coming up as I tend to push 100-120 TSS per ride 2-3x week -I did notice the EN template MS TSS WO seems to be in the 70-80TSS range if I don't add much additional Z3 work.
Got it in and hit all intervals. Started to feel a twinge of that deep fatigue in the legs which is frightening as it is only week 3. Oh well one WKO at a time. Here are the numbers:
Cant find it in the wiki... any thoughts or "official" parameters/goals for TSS? I thought I read somewhere that pro level rarely go above 200 total (bike) TSS/week except in key bike focus blocks {seems low-maybe that was per WO?}. If so I may have over training issues coming up as I tend to push 100-120 TSS per ride 2-3x week -I did notice the EN template MS TSS WO seems to be in the 70-80TSS range if I don't add much additional Z3 work.
This is a yearly question during OS. Here is a forum post, enshrined in the wiki, which outlines some WSM thinking about this. The link to the "original forum thread" doesn't work:
The concept here is that TSS points during the OS shouldn't be looked at in quite the same way as TSS during race build. It is VERY hard to get more than 4-500 TSS during a week in the OS, while getting 7-800+ during IM build is pretty common. Bottom line: just do the work, and don't worry so much about what your Performance Management Chart looks like at this point. And don't try to compare your TSS to someone who is not doing OS type training at this time of year. It'll just confuse things.
200 TSS for a bike workout would be pretty standard stuff for a Saturday ride during IM prep. I just checked week 7 (one of the biggest weeks) before AZ, and found 385 for biking (215 for Sat ride), 350 for running (190 for long run), and 130 for swimming - basically following the EN plan, but only two days swim. 930 for that week if I'd done 3 swims. If I tried to do 930 in a week @ OS-like intensity, I'd be digging myself out of an over-training pit.
@Kate-enjoy the GC! I live in the grand canyon state and have visited but have yet to do the whole hike down and back. If you have layover time in Phoenix give me a call
@Al-congrats on retirement and your teams making the cut (we are bay area expats so a little disappointed). And your rest day sounds just like mine-1000 swim drills then 45'weights and core
Got a late start this am so only got 45'in on the bike: 2x10 @1.01,1.03 and then 5' at .88. Had to work late (home after 8) so no way doing the bric, even though its a lovely evening for running
This week is a bit messed up for me as I am on call on Thursday night so no real opportunity for a wko thursday am or pm, or friday am.
So yesterday (tuesday) I did a 35 minute run with 15 minutes at tempo pace (4:30/k for me) in the morning and in the evening I did a 60' bike session (on rollers) with 2x10'/3' at FTP and 4x2'/3' at VO2. tough day but I feel fine today. Swam this morning (ssshhhh!).
@Al Thanx... I figured these shorter rides in OS would be much lower TSS VS later 4-5hr and such. I'm considering getting Training Peaks to track all this stuff. Played a bit with Golden Chaeta and Garmin connect has been my main collection site. Just haven't committed to the $ (says he who owns a computrainer... LOL ) One thing I noticed is everyone is big on tracking IF, however Racermate/Garmin don't have a way to track per-set IF VS whole WO as I know of. -I'm guessing those are all Trainer Road people. I get why It would be good to track/post. just my 0.83IF for the whole ride under reports my 110% FTP 10' work set for example.
@ David - but, without the 110% FTP work, imagine how low your IF would be for the whole ride! I get my IF for the individual work segments from the screen that shows up on TR immediately after I finish a ride. The summary of the workout that comes up when I go to the website or my career page does not provide the IF for individual segments. But, it does provide my NP for each segment, so I simply divide that number by my FTP and that is the IF for a given segment.
I tried using Training Peaks to store all my info, but have always used Garmin Connect, and got tired of the multi-step process to load to Training Peaks. Garmin Connect is just too easy, although maybe I'm missing something. For those that use Training Peaks, but is the benefit over Garmin Connect? Thanks.
@John Henault.... go to tapiriik.com you can set up your garminconnect to automatically send that data to TP and Strava..... so its only one download to Garmin works pretty slick.... There is also a company copymysports.com that works with garmin/strava but NOT TP
@John Henault.... go to tapiriik.com you can set up your garminconnect to automatically send that data to TP and Strava..... so its only one download to Garmin works pretty slick.... There is also a company copymysports.com that works with garmin/strava but NOT TP
Thanks, Tim. I saw that DC Rainman had a post recently about tapiriik recently. I get that Training Peaks (if you have the pay version) allows more power analyses. Other than that, what do you see as the benefits to Training Peaks over Garmin Connect? Thanks. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it for me.
@ John, if you don't get the paid version then I doubt it's worth much. But the paid version has a crapton more functionality than Garmin connect and is really quite a different set of capabilities IF you use them.
@ John, if you don't get the paid version then I doubt it's worth much. But the paid version has a crapton more functionality than Garmin connect and is really quite a different set of capabilities IF you use them.
Thanks, Matt. I don't mean to hijack the bike thread into a Training Peaks discussion. I'll take a look at the functionality of the paid version of TP.
@Paul - Like Al, I'm training for Boston (April 21), so I started my bike OS a week early...that way it will end on April 6....two weeks before Boston, instead of 1 week before. My thought is to go ahead and bike some in that week of April 6-13, but tone it down...not finish up super hard with only one week rest/taper for Boston. After Boston, I'm totally regrouping and will be setting my sights on Wisconsin in Sept.
@John - The one thing that you might find worthwhile out of the free TP account is that you can get sTSS and rTSS scores. The free account does not let you actually use their PMC, but if you wanted to feed those numbers into a home-grown PMC chart of some sort, they are there. Otherwise, the value in TP over any of the free services (e.g., GC) - I agree - is in the paid account. I am temporarily not paying....waiting for the WKO+ 4.0 that was due out in October, and will re-evaluate at that time.
@Al and John... Thanks. It's probably just a distance thing. I'll try moving the bike a smidge closer.
It's been good to follow this thread while I get back to the land of the living. When I went about looking into WKO or TP or something, I found indications that the MacOS isn't such a good place fpr them. Am I wrong on this? I want to do a better job of tracking my TSS this season.
It's been good to follow this thread while I get back to the land of the living. When I went about looking into WKO or TP or something, I found indications that the MacOS isn't such a good place fpr them. Am I wrong on this? I want to do a better job of tracking my TSS this season.
Training Peaks' computer based program, WKO+, currently v 3, works only on Windows. TP has announced a Mac version is coming this year (before spring?), but they've already delayed once, so ...
The online versions of TP (free and paid) work just fine on a Mac via the interwebs.
the reason I've let my TP paid subscription expire is that they typically bundle WKO and TP paid...and I want to at least consider that pricing option when it comes out. Over winter, I'm less concerned about anything that isn't just hitting the target numbers on my workouts, so I don't really need the PMC as much. And GC will do any advanced analysis I need, for now.
Thursday bike done. I had to cut the hour down to 45 minutes to get my son to school, but did the 7x1.5 (1.5) VO2 intervals and then half of the sweetspot. The legs felt tired after pushing the run yesterday. I have to do the Saturday ride tomorrow given some traveling, so we will see how the legs hold up then! Here are the numbers for today:
Overall - NP 223; IF 0.90; 45:27
VO2 1 - IF 1.17; P 289
VO2 2 - IF 1.18; P 291
VO2 3 - IF 1.17; P 290
VO2 4 - IF 1.17; P 288
VO2 5 - IF 1.17; P 288
VO2 6 - IF 1.16; P 287
VO2 7 - IF 1.16; P 287
SS1 18:00 - IF 0.83; P 204
Edited to adjust IF using different numbers (thanks, Tim!).
@John Heneault... nice work! check your AP for those 1.5min intervals...Its most likely higher and more appropriate for the duration... That is the true IF !
Comments
@Mr Johnson please look at my ride from today on the NOS ride thread. Also I hope you are eating. Losing weight through crash dieting is not the way to build FTP.
@DJ Good ride today bud!
Good work every one.
@ Al ...you defy age.
I'm get a cold ..sore throat, stuffy nose, achy bones. Skipped the bike workout today and slept in.
Hopefully better in few days.
I'm with Al...recovery gets to be very important as I'm about to turn 59. Still I'm the youngest 59 anyone around here will ever see.
FWIW my day off protocol is usually 30-60 minutes of yoga. Just fell in love with it about 45 days ago. I'm using Yoga Studio on the iPad and highly recommend. This is the first time I have looked forward to and been consistent in flexibility work.
Anyway, I did my 2x12 at 100% plus a lot of Z3. Overshot the time mark and went 1 hr 35 mins (TSS = 97.5) because I was watching Jet Li kick butt in Kiss of the Dragon. No way to cut that short and not see the bad guys get their just reward. Did a brick run right after.
D/t my season planning, looking forward to IM CDA, I started the OS in Dec, and am now on week 7 of the intermediate plan. This is the first year I've gone with the INT, and I'm glad I did. I changed because I had been finding the bike ramp up (though not the run) to be unmanageable last year, AND my IM time went above 11 hours for the first time. I will go on hold for the next two weeks while skiing, and will do 6-7 more weeks of OS before the Tucson Rally, then drop into the IM plan.
Also, I'm hacking the run to get ready for Boston April 21 , so my long runs are longer.
Got it in and hit all intervals. Started to feel a twinge of that deep fatigue in the legs which is frightening as it is only week 3. Oh well one WKO at a time. Here are the numbers:
Name
Time
kJ(Cal)
TSS
NP
Power
Target
Workout
1:00:00
669
75
198
185
184
Threshold 1
0:10:00
142
17
236
237
229
Threshold 2
0:10:00
139
16
230
231
229
Sweet Spot 1
0:12:00
146
15
202
203
195
This is a yearly question during OS. Here is a forum post, enshrined in the wiki, which outlines some WSM thinking about this. The link to the "original forum thread" doesn't work:
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Focusing+on+What+Matters+in+the+OS
The concept here is that TSS points during the OS shouldn't be looked at in quite the same way as TSS during race build. It is VERY hard to get more than 4-500 TSS during a week in the OS, while getting 7-800+ during IM build is pretty common. Bottom line: just do the work, and don't worry so much about what your Performance Management Chart looks like at this point. And don't try to compare your TSS to someone who is not doing OS type training at this time of year. It'll just confuse things.
200 TSS for a bike workout would be pretty standard stuff for a Saturday ride during IM prep. I just checked week 7 (one of the biggest weeks) before AZ, and found 385 for biking (215 for Sat ride), 350 for running (190 for long run), and 130 for swimming - basically following the EN plan, but only two days swim. 930 for that week if I'd done 3 swims. If I tried to do 930 in a week @ OS-like intensity, I'd be digging myself out of an over-training pit.
@Al-congrats on retirement and your teams making the cut (we are bay area expats so a little disappointed). And your rest day sounds just like mine-1000 swim drills then 45'weights and core
@all suffering the crud-may you recover quickly
Got a late start this am so only got 45'in on the bike: 2x10 @1.01,1.03 and then 5' at .88. Had to work late (home after 8) so no way doing the bric, even though its a lovely evening for running
This week is a bit messed up for me as I am on call on Thursday night so no real opportunity for a wko thursday am or pm, or friday am.
So yesterday (tuesday) I did a 35 minute run with 15 minutes at tempo pace (4:30/k for me) in the morning and in the evening I did a 60' bike session (on rollers) with 2x10'/3' at FTP and 4x2'/3' at VO2. tough day but I feel fine today. Swam this morning (ssshhhh!).
Same pattern for next week unfortunately.
I tried using Training Peaks to store all my info, but have always used Garmin Connect, and got tired of the multi-step process to load to Training Peaks. Garmin Connect is just too easy, although maybe I'm missing something. For those that use Training Peaks, but is the benefit over Garmin Connect? Thanks.
Thanks, Tim. I saw that DC Rainman had a post recently about tapiriik recently. I get that Training Peaks (if you have the pay version) allows more power analyses. Other than that, what do you see as the benefits to Training Peaks over Garmin Connect? Thanks. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it for me.
@John - The one thing that you might find worthwhile out of the free TP account is that you can get sTSS and rTSS scores. The free account does not let you actually use their PMC, but if you wanted to feed those numbers into a home-grown PMC chart of some sort, they are there. Otherwise, the value in TP over any of the free services (e.g., GC) - I agree - is in the paid account. I am temporarily not paying....waiting for the WKO+ 4.0 that was due out in October, and will re-evaluate at that time.
@Al and John... Thanks. It's probably just a distance thing. I'll try moving the bike a smidge closer.
It's been good to follow this thread while I get back to the land of the living. When I went about looking into WKO or TP or something, I found indications that the MacOS isn't such a good place fpr them. Am I wrong on this? I want to do a better job of tracking my TSS this season.
Training Peaks' computer based program, WKO+, currently v 3, works only on Windows. TP has announced a Mac version is coming this year (before spring?), but they've already delayed once, so ...
The online versions of TP (free and paid) work just fine on a Mac via the interwebs.
This is the best I can find.
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/YAF_Gateway/forumhost.aspx?g=posts&t=83909
the reason I've let my TP paid subscription expire is that they typically bundle WKO and TP paid...and I want to at least consider that pricing option when it comes out. Over winter, I'm less concerned about anything that isn't just hitting the target numbers on my workouts, so I don't really need the PMC as much. And GC will do any advanced analysis I need, for now.
There is a 25% discount with USAT
Thursday's VO2 intervals this evening: 10 x 1.5' (1.5') 1.23, 1.22, 1.225, 1.215, 1.215, 1.205, 1.175, 1.23, 1.2, 1.22
Hard work. Hope it works. Swim, long run tomorrow.
Overall - NP 223; IF 0.90; 45:27
VO2 1 - IF 1.17; P 289
VO2 2 - IF 1.18; P 291
VO2 3 - IF 1.17; P 290
VO2 4 - IF 1.17; P 288
VO2 5 - IF 1.17; P 288
VO2 6 - IF 1.16; P 287
VO2 7 - IF 1.16; P 287
SS1 18:00 - IF 0.83; P 204
Edited to adjust IF using different numbers (thanks, Tim!).