Unfortunately, the swim = 1/10th (or 11th) of the race = diddly squat. The only benefits? Serene, quiet T1, and you don't have to pass much on the bike. Now if SS will master his swim, we can all just follow that significant wake.
Finally got to workout last night. Tried to do my week 8/8 GF plan 5K TT. Coughing fits until I warmed up and then they stopped, so gave it a go. Tried to run 7:10-15/mi (last 5K TT pace was 7:21). First mile went OK. Second mile I had slowed to 7:24 and I could tell it just wasn't in the cards, so I aborted. Then coughed like crazy as I cooled off. Oh well. Such is life. I hadn't run in ~10 days (due to horrible flu/ear infection nonsense). So, definitely was rested, but maybe too rested? Shoud I retest, or just stick with my current vDot (42) and transition into IM plan monday? Any constructive criticism of how I tried to test (ie...I thought I might be able to run 5-10s/mile faster than last TT.....reasonable?...bad strategy?...good strategy?). I've never been a "runner" (obviously from my vDot), and I have boogered up more TT attempts than I care to count. I sometimes wonder if a 10K TT wouldn't be better for me? I prefer mild longer suffering to short intense suffering and just don't seem to have "another gear" that some people have. ???
BTW....my inability to run faster or continue running "fast" last night was NOT due to respiratory problems...I did not cough or feel "tight" or have trouble breathing during the TT itself.
@Jeff, welcome back to the land of the living! No worries; you didn't miss much. I would ping CoachP in the Micro and ask him. I suspect that he'll tell you to move to the IM on Monday, as the speed portion is done, volume is the new king. He may also advise to re-test in a week or two once you're healthier and have some new running in your legs, unless you can effectively self-adjust your zones until we test again in 4wks. And if 5k ain't your thing and doesn't translate well to 26.2, test 10k or HM.
BTW, I have the opposite problem. I can run a disproportionately fast 5k. That is, running sub-6:30's for a 5k is easy; running sub-7's for HM and sub-7:30's for a M are Herculean tasks. So, unless I can hold 6:59's in my HM next week, I expect my 50 to drop to a more translatable 49. But that 50 isn't going down without a fight.
Jeff - glad you are up and about. It might just be me but I dont look at my watch during the 5kTT I just run. But then all of yall are faster than I am.
First 3swim week this week as I start to get my head into the IM plan. It is quite a shift in gears. Managed to thrash around in the pool for an hour but didnt stick to my target plan for the day.
@MR.... thats still an awesome swim TT time... Last year I tested a 14:59 1000yd TT in april pre-IMTX...... I was swimming better than I ever had and was really thinking a sub 1:10 no-wetsuit swim was in the cards... I ended up just under 1:14 and a bit dissappointed... Had 1 really good OLY swim after that and then broken-collar bone reset the whole swim game... KONA was even slower... Finally came back with a PR in IMFL with 1:04 but with a wetsuit..... I WILL GO sub 1:10 @ IMTX this year even if it kills me!
@JL... I wouldnt worry about your vdot test.... Move to the IM plan.... Keep the zones the same.... See how you do when your back to 100% you'll know if your zones are right or not and you can retest then...... FWIW I usually test better at longer distances as well for the run and the bike.... I am forcing myself to race more 5k's and test the FTP via the 20min test in order to work my weakness and improve... My 5k miles are usually 1st mile the fastest, 2nd mile the slowest, and 3rd usually in the middle....
@Tim, I've read lots of stories of slow TX swim times. 1:14 is crazy if you can go 1:04 at FL. Is it just the lack of WS or did TX seem long, narrow, tough nav? Regardless, I'll embrace it, as I've always placed higher in non-WS swims, with a lot of strong guys dragging foot-anchors without 5mm of neoprene to prop them up. I guess if there's a take-away: take some time to work on form.
Hey everybody- I will post this a few places. Here is about 4min of video of me "swimming". About 2:30 above the water and 1:30 below. If you have any advice I would appreciate it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX-uNurkq0Q
Full disclosure: My bro-in-law is a collegiate swim coach, NCAA champ, 2x Olympian, and former world record holder in the mile. So when he videoed me in '97 and told me to spend 2 years doing Total Immersion drills to get my stroke from "joke" to "terrible," I drilled. I have none of his genetics, but I now have some of the technique. 70-80% of speed is hydrodynamics. INOW, form is everything. I think Coach R says focus on form until you get down to 1:15, then work on power. That said, swim in IM is a mere prelude to the real race.
@Jimmy I watched it but I'm certainly not knowledgable enough to critique it... Will follow the thread and hopefull some fish will give you some pointers... If nobody does I would put it up on ST and see what happens.... One thing I would suggest is trying to get video angles straight on in the middle instead of offset slightly...
@Mike Roberts... I hear ya on the swim but you can lose the race in the swim and it really depends on how competitive you are in the AG and your goals.... The guy who beat me in Texas last year absolutely crushed me by 22.5 minutes and out of that 15 minutes were in the swim! I want some of those 15 minutes! I've come a long way , started swimming in 2009 and have great progress but there is more to be had!
thx guys. straight on video will be easy to get. I got a waterproof case for my iPhone and just put it on the pool deck to get the above water shots and wedged it in a fin on the bottom of the pool for underwater. I think that A TI coach might help. I have a book and dvd but can't make the connection between what I red / see and what my body does. I am hopeful that someone will give me a thought or two or drill or two that will un kink me. I was 1:16 in a wetsuit at IMFL so there is low hanging fruit there I think.
Jimmy...I took six lessons this winter and it definitely helped me. He is a TI coach, but also coaches high school/college teams (or used to ). He offers single session (with video) or a set (discounted) lessons. PM me if you want his info. He is doing a "clinic/camp" for the Brittons tri force team soon.
I didn't feel like he pushed the TI stuff/philosophy too hard. Maybe a little more gliding than many would accept as "good"? I may not be much faster now, but I will definitely save some energy now compared to the thrashing I was doing last year.....if everyone else will just get out of my way!
I think your form looks pretty good. But I'm no fish and have NO formal swim background.
@Jimmy, good video. I'm no swim coach, but I see a few things to investigate:
1) You rotate OK to the L, your breathing side. You don't rotate to the R. Very common. Do all the catch-up and similar rotation drills in Coach R's swim e-book. The feeling should be belly button facing the pool wall, both sides, every stroke. Need your rotating hips to generate the power. Yachts haul A on their sides, barges crawl on their stomachs. This is essential. You simply can't swim fast unless you're swimming on your sides. In a race, I frequently ask myself, am I rotating to the R with R elbow high over the barrel? 2) Because you don't rotate much to the R and stroke L on your stomach, your L hand catch is weak and forces your L hand way out wide (not in/down). You're only using weak bicep and shoulder muscles. Plus, you'll swim crooked in open water. If you rotate properly (belly button facing R wall, L shoulder down), your L arm will be bent inward (not outward), you'll catch the water powerfully with your hand AND forearm like grabbing a ladder rung and you'll be engaging your more powerful lats to pull. 3) Wide arm catch/recovery. You need to be the narrowest tube possible moving through the water. Your catch (especially L) is very wide, as is your recovery. Drill: when you catch and pull, as soon as your hand pulls down to your armpit, drag your thumb down your torso, push through the hip, keep dragging thumb all the way back up through the armpit and through recovery, only disengaging to carry arm over the barrel as you rotate and re-enter the water. Feels like imitating a turkey, but it works. 4) Feet up. Especially at no-WS IMTX, keep chin/chest down, eyes down, head and body rotating on one straight axis. Looking up and pushing down during the pull will drop your feet and create anchors (instead, pull water towards your feet, not bottom of pool). 5) No eggbeaters. Stay long as long as possible, don't rush the stroke. Your R hand needs to stay out front until your L hand is past your ear. Long yachts on their side sail faster than short yachts on their side. Coach R has good drills on this. 6) Straight knees and ankles. When all of the above is perfect, focus on these dessert items.
To the extent any of the above conflicts with Coach R's e-book, his advice trumps. And none of the above is criticism. You have a good smooth stroke and lots of good habits. I recognize the above issues b/c I struggle to some extent with all of them. I'm always working on 3-5 trouble items. Keeps things challenging, interesting and never boring.
Mike - Thanks. That gives me a lot to work with. I Will start with the rotation. It sounds like if I can rotate more to my non breathing side it might unlock the problems with the left hand catch. More video a few weeks from now. And don't worry about being blunt. My swim times tell the story. If a 32min oly and 1:16 IM swim was coming with perfect form I would be really discouraged.
And the Dummy of the Day Award goes to . . .the idiot who thought 3 gels and 2 bottles of Gatorade would be enough calories for a 72-miler in 101 heat index conditions. Cooked.
@Jimmy, Mike, and Shaughn NICE RIDES! You guys are really getting after it! Love it. You guys are motivating me to pick up the volume and distance!
My ride was an ABP on Mt. Lemmon.... I was trying to best last weeks times on 2 of the long segments on Strava , 1 segment is the main climb around 21.2 miles and the other segment is the full climb including the false flat warm up making it around 24.5 I think... Riding my watts I was just pushing a couple over last week and feeling good, then the wind picked up... Not a lot but enough to make the difference.... Long story short... The 2 segments I was looking for are missing ( have an email into Strava support this happened before and they fixed it) all the shorter segments are there... Anyway ended up putting out 8-9 watts more than last week and being 2-3 minutes faster...If all I had was time/speed I woulda thought the ride was a bust but 8-9watts over last week makes me very happy with improvement..... Another classic example of power showing the real story....
Great work everyone. I had my "Big Day" workout today, i.e., 1hr swim, 4 hr bike, 1 hr run. Felt strong during all three. Surprisingly, I fueled well and paced well and even had a negative split on my run (with se help from tailwind). It really reaffirmed all the training I've been putting in. This was a well needed boost as my run TT got botched due to 25 mph winds and my FTP test left me a little down in the dumps. Also did a 1000yd swim TT on Thursday and my times were the lower than a year ago. Ready for week 9!
Wife out of town this weekend, so I have daddy duty this weekend...soccer tournament, etc. Tried to do my delayed FTP test today. First ride on the TT bike outside in months. Didn't test as well as I had hoped, but it was pretty windy and I didn't exactly want to do this today...probably a set-up for a sub-optimal test in retrospect. Ended up with FTP of 208, but I've had one hour NP of 214 twice (before the flu nearly killed me) in the past 4-5 weeks, so I'm gonna stick with that to start the IMTX builds (those were on the road bike, but my FTP last fall was 212 on the TT bike in aero for the whole test). I think I'm closer to 220 than 208. RR will be the proof though? As I was doing the second 20min FTP set, I debated with the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other about aborting, as I could tell I wasn't going to improve on 214. But, then I just decided I needed a good 2 x 20' Z4 workout anyway, after not doing much the past two weeks. I guess that was a good decision. Will try to get in a 60-90min run tomorrow, and then load up the IM plan Monday. Funny how just like my run test a few days ago, I had coughing fits during warm up and then as soon as I finished each 20mins....but not one cough or even urge to cough during the 20mins x 2 (or my "fast" miles during the TT). So strange....I think I'm mental.
I think I saw another FTP test on the schedule in about 4-5 weeks too?
@Mike hope you didn't suffer too badly. I am a tiny bit envious of your warmer weather there. @SS strong ride/run especially with the conditions. 20mph wind is no joke. @Tim after 6k elevation gain, that ride down must have been fun.
I was lucky enough to ride with a few other EN'rs yesterday who will also be in TX. My injured hand forced me to get aero as predicted, so my neck is feeling it today. It was such a cold ride starting out, I decided to run on the mill when I got home. I know I'll be wishing for colder weather come race day though.
I felt like I rode timid, but my NP was right on target. I guess I'm so used to hurting in Z4 it feels weird to ride in a Z2. Nutrition and pacing worked great. Bring on wk9!
@Emily- I'd prefer not to have to descend that long. Its usually cold, wind usually light but unpredictable, hands and fingers go numb , scary monitoring the traffic, and after an hour of essentially coasting/soft pedaling it takes forever to get your legs back.
@Robin- for the most part I ride Lemmon seated but do spend some time in aero , would be easier @ IM pace instead of HIM pace.... I'm Just about done playing on the mountain and have a couple flat roads to start IMTX training on that look really safe but the pavement is marginal.
After yesterday's IQ-based bonk (which I treated with a post-ride feast, 2-hr coma/nap and 9 hrs of sleep), I embarked on today's run fully prepared*. A bit warm and humid (as usual), but if you can't enjoy 12 miles along the beach in 77 degrees of sunshine, you should find another hobby. And after 3 weeks of mediocre running, this one felt great. Nailed Z1 out, Z2 back, 8:04 overall avg. 2 gels, 2 salt pills, 8 FB bottles. Still lost 5.2 lbs, which means I've still got some work to do on hydration (probably needed 12 FB bottles). But feel pretty good about taking a shot at my 10yo HM PR next Sunday.
*Only downside was the excruciating post-run shower. Just put 10 Band-Aids in my FB pocket so that I won't repeat that rookie mistake.
2hrs of abp. IF of .73 was a little low. But I haven't put this many hrs in in a single week since the start of november. This race sure is coming up faster than FL did...
First long run in 2 weeks today. Waited until hottest part of the day on purpose. 82 degrees and sunny. Had much more trouble than expected and just stayed b/w Z1/Z2 the whole time (9miles in 1:21). Not sure if it was the heat or still not recovered or if I lost some fitness. Practiced my hydration and fueling, with 4oz Perform every hour and powergel every 3 miles. At least that seemed to work fine.
Oh well... will just plug on and see how it goes. Loading up the IM plan for first time....gonna try as hard as I can (without getting divorced) to get every red/yellow workout in. Even so, I'm not convinced at all that I can run if it's really hot on May 17.
Comments
Finally got to workout last night. Tried to do my week 8/8 GF plan 5K TT. Coughing fits until I warmed up and then they stopped, so gave it a go. Tried to run 7:10-15/mi (last 5K TT pace was 7:21). First mile went OK. Second mile I had slowed to 7:24 and I could tell it just wasn't in the cards, so I aborted. Then coughed like crazy as I cooled off. Oh well. Such is life. I hadn't run in ~10 days (due to horrible flu/ear infection nonsense). So, definitely was rested, but maybe too rested? Shoud I retest, or just stick with my current vDot (42) and transition into IM plan monday? Any constructive criticism of how I tried to test (ie...I thought I might be able to run 5-10s/mile faster than last TT.....reasonable?...bad strategy?...good strategy?). I've never been a "runner" (obviously from my vDot), and I have boogered up more TT attempts than I care to count. I sometimes wonder if a 10K TT wouldn't be better for me? I prefer mild longer suffering to short intense suffering and just don't seem to have "another gear" that some people have. ???
BTW....my inability to run faster or continue running "fast" last night was NOT due to respiratory problems...I did not cough or feel "tight" or have trouble breathing during the TT itself.
@Jeff, welcome back to the land of the living! No worries; you didn't miss much. I would ping CoachP in the Micro and ask him. I suspect that he'll tell you to move to the IM on Monday, as the speed portion is done, volume is the new king. He may also advise to re-test in a week or two once you're healthier and have some new running in your legs, unless you can effectively self-adjust your zones until we test again in 4wks. And if 5k ain't your thing and doesn't translate well to 26.2, test 10k or HM.
BTW, I have the opposite problem. I can run a disproportionately fast 5k. That is, running sub-6:30's for a 5k is easy; running sub-7's for HM and sub-7:30's for a M are Herculean tasks. So, unless I can hold 6:59's in my HM next week, I expect my 50 to drop to a more translatable 49. But that 50 isn't going down without a fight.
First 3swim week this week as I start to get my head into the IM plan. It is quite a shift in gears. Managed to thrash around in the pool for an hour but didnt stick to my target plan for the day.
@JL... I wouldnt worry about your vdot test.... Move to the IM plan.... Keep the zones the same.... See how you do when your back to 100% you'll know if your zones are right or not and you can retest then...... FWIW I usually test better at longer distances as well for the run and the bike.... I am forcing myself to race more 5k's and test the FTP via the 20min test in order to work my weakness and improve... My 5k miles are usually 1st mile the fastest, 2nd mile the slowest, and 3rd usually in the middle....
There's only one way to follow a F@%!ED UP run TT..........with a Swim TT PR!!...,,,,,,,,,,,,
http://www.strava.com/activities/115005940 no laughing here........................
I channeled the Cronk/Roberts swim mojo and beat my last PR by 20 secs........19:35 or 1:57/100 yds........
From here forward, for every second MR drops his Swim TT time I will commit to dropping mine by 3 secs!
Keep leading all!!
SS
@Jimmy I got video is private?
I been trying to line up a local swim coach here in Tucson to get some one on one and video... Looks like it might finally be here sometime next week!
Good run this am.. felt a lot better than I did on weds.... 1hr 7 miles with 5 x .75 repeats
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/448795286#
Afternoon swim was an hour 3400yds with WU, lots of snorkel sets , a couple fin sets one done as catch up drill, then CD....
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/448898272#
@Mike Roberts... I hear ya on the swim but you can lose the race in the swim and it really depends on how competitive you are in the AG and your goals.... The guy who beat me in Texas last year absolutely crushed me by 22.5 minutes and out of that 15 minutes were in the swim! I want some of those 15 minutes! I've come a long way , started swimming in 2009 and have great progress but there is more to be had!
I think that A TI coach might help. I have a book and dvd but can't make the connection between what I red / see and what my body does. I am hopeful that someone will give me a thought or two or drill or two that will un kink me. I was 1:16 in a wetsuit at IMFL so there is low hanging fruit there I think.
I didn't feel like he pushed the TI stuff/philosophy too hard. Maybe a little more gliding than many would accept as "good"? I may not be much faster now, but I will definitely save some energy now compared to the thrashing I was doing last year.....if everyone else will just get out of my way!
I think your form looks pretty good. But I'm no fish and have NO formal swim background.
1) You rotate OK to the L, your breathing side. You don't rotate to the R. Very common. Do all the catch-up and similar rotation drills in Coach R's swim e-book. The feeling should be belly button facing the pool wall, both sides, every stroke. Need your rotating hips to generate the power. Yachts haul A on their sides, barges crawl on their stomachs. This is essential. You simply can't swim fast unless you're swimming on your sides. In a race, I frequently ask myself, am I rotating to the R with R elbow high over the barrel?
2) Because you don't rotate much to the R and stroke L on your stomach, your L hand catch is weak and forces your L hand way out wide (not in/down). You're only using weak bicep and shoulder muscles. Plus, you'll swim crooked in open water. If you rotate properly (belly button facing R wall, L shoulder down), your L arm will be bent inward (not outward), you'll catch the water powerfully with your hand AND forearm like grabbing a ladder rung and you'll be engaging your more powerful lats to pull.
3) Wide arm catch/recovery. You need to be the narrowest tube possible moving through the water. Your catch (especially L) is very wide, as is your recovery. Drill: when you catch and pull, as soon as your hand pulls down to your armpit, drag your thumb down your torso, push through the hip, keep dragging thumb all the way back up through the armpit and through recovery, only disengaging to carry arm over the barrel as you rotate and re-enter the water. Feels like imitating a turkey, but it works.
4) Feet up. Especially at no-WS IMTX, keep chin/chest down, eyes down, head and body rotating on one straight axis. Looking up and pushing down during the pull will drop your feet and create anchors (instead, pull water towards your feet, not bottom of pool).
5) No eggbeaters. Stay long as long as possible, don't rush the stroke. Your R hand needs to stay out front until your L hand is past your ear. Long yachts on their side sail faster than short yachts on their side. Coach R has good drills on this.
6) Straight knees and ankles. When all of the above is perfect, focus on these dessert items.
To the extent any of the above conflicts with Coach R's e-book, his advice trumps. And none of the above is criticism. You have a good smooth stroke and lots of good habits. I recognize the above issues b/c I struggle to some extent with all of them. I'm always working on 3-5 trouble items. Keeps things challenging, interesting and never boring.
And don't worry about being blunt. My swim times tell the story. If a 32min oly and 1:16 IM swim was coming with perfect form I would be really discouraged.
Ride: http://www.strava.com/activities/115247700
Brick Run: http://www.strava.com/activities/115247622
@ Mike, I did not have the heat like you today (71 degrees) but did have to deal with 20 mph winds.....Hope ur OK.
SS
My ride was an ABP on Mt. Lemmon.... I was trying to best last weeks times on 2 of the long segments on Strava , 1 segment is the main climb around 21.2 miles and the other segment is the full climb including the false flat warm up making it around 24.5 I think... Riding my watts I was just pushing a couple over last week and feeling good, then the wind picked up... Not a lot but enough to make the difference.... Long story short... The 2 segments I was looking for are missing ( have an email into Strava support this happened before and they fixed it) all the shorter segments are there... Anyway ended up putting out 8-9 watts more than last week and being 2-3 minutes faster...If all I had was time/speed I woulda thought the ride was a bust but 8-9watts over last week makes me very happy with improvement..... Another classic example of power showing the real story....
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/449573094
Wife out of town this weekend, so I have daddy duty this weekend...soccer tournament, etc. Tried to do my delayed FTP test today. First ride on the TT bike outside in months. Didn't test as well as I had hoped, but it was pretty windy and I didn't exactly want to do this today...probably a set-up for a sub-optimal test in retrospect. Ended up with FTP of 208, but I've had one hour NP of 214 twice (before the flu nearly killed me) in the past 4-5 weeks, so I'm gonna stick with that to start the IMTX builds (those were on the road bike, but my FTP last fall was 212 on the TT bike in aero for the whole test). I think I'm closer to 220 than 208. RR will be the proof though? As I was doing the second 20min FTP set, I debated with the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other about aborting, as I could tell I wasn't going to improve on 214. But, then I just decided I needed a good 2 x 20' Z4 workout anyway, after not doing much the past two weeks. I guess that was a good decision. Will try to get in a 60-90min run tomorrow, and then load up the IM plan Monday. Funny how just like my run test a few days ago, I had coughing fits during warm up and then as soon as I finished each 20mins....but not one cough or even urge to cough during the 20mins x 2 (or my "fast" miles during the TT). So strange....I think I'm mental.
I think I saw another FTP test on the schedule in about 4-5 weeks too?
I was lucky enough to ride with a few other EN'rs yesterday who will also be in TX. My injured hand forced me to get aero as predicted, so my neck is feeling it today. It was such a cold ride starting out, I decided to run on the mill when I got home. I know I'll be wishing for colder weather come race day though.
I felt like I rode timid, but my NP was right on target. I guess I'm so used to hurting in Z4 it feels weird to ride in a Z2. Nutrition and pacing worked great. Bring on wk9!
Ride: http://www.strava.com/activities/115218367
Run: http://www.strava.com/activities/115220990
@Robin- for the most part I ride Lemmon seated but do spend some time in aero , would be easier @ IM pace instead of HIM pace.... I'm Just about done playing on the mountain and have a couple flat roads to start IMTX training on that look really safe but the pavement is marginal.
*Only downside was the excruciating post-run shower. Just put 10 Band-Aids in my FB pocket so that I won't repeat that rookie mistake.
1:30 11 mile run this am.... too hilly to adjust and run by pace but felt good to run by RPE...
First long run in 2 weeks today. Waited until hottest part of the day on purpose. 82 degrees and sunny. Had much more trouble than expected and just stayed b/w Z1/Z2 the whole time (9miles in 1:21). Not sure if it was the heat or still not recovered or if I lost some fitness. Practiced my hydration and fueling, with 4oz Perform every hour and powergel every 3 miles. At least that seemed to work fine.
Oh well... will just plug on and see how it goes. Loading up the IM plan for first time....gonna try as hard as I can (without getting divorced) to get every red/yellow workout in. Even so, I'm not convinced at all that I can run if it's really hot on May 17.