You know that I have Raleigh coming up this weekend and as I was going over my Nutrition plan to fine tune it, I noticed that the HIM race execution instructions suggest taking in fewer calories than the IM race execution instructions but the spreadsheet calculator doesn't have different calculations for the HIM distance and there is not a specific recommendation.
The spreadsheet gives me 515 calories/hr for my weight. This is about 200 cal/hr higher than the range given in the race execution instructions. When I used this for my first HIM, I ended up with some stomach issues and the feedback was that I probably had too much nutrition (see thread above). On My IM, I used the same nutrition plan and did OK until I got into the run and then ended up using coke and chicken broth. Basically, I can take 2-3 bottles per hour on the bike with minimum problems because I practice it every ride but when I hit the run, I can't take nearly as much.
I was wondering if you had any specific caloric recommendations for HIM or should I just do what I know works for me on the bike and try to get in as much as I can on the run? I know that What I have practiced works well enough for me to finish but I am wondering if some fine-tuning might be beneficial. I was thinking of using 350 cal/hr as a target to see if I could fuel more evenly throughout the race. I would be interested in your advice on this.
Step One, race nutrition begins TWELVE WEEKS BEFORE YOUR RACE, not the week of. Ain't nothing different you can do now, your body isn't ready.
Step Two, it's a lot, but you CAN take it in...it takes about FOUR TO SIX WEEKS OF PRACTICING 2-3X A WEEK to get to a place where you can take it in. Not just one or two rides. It's worth it.
The nutrition requirements are the same -- you are working at the same, if not harder effort...why would you need LESS FOOD / FLUIDS.
My plan is the same except for the carbo loading window is smaller, my breakfast is smaller pre-race, and since I transition to caffeine halfway through the bike, that is sped up, etc.
Still slightly more bottles in first hour (if going to be hot), a few bites of banana in T2, importance of early run calories.
Since we can't modify now, make a note of what you do end up doing so we can improve upon that!
Hey Coach, Things did not go so great overall but I ended up close to the negative split on the run. Nutrition was still an issue but no worse than previous races. The thing is that I practice it every workout. You might have noticed me carrying 5 bottles for the blue ridge camp. I drink 2-3 bottles per hour every time I am on the bike and use gels too. Somehow, on Race day it stops working about the time I get near the end of the bike. Anyways, my Race report is here http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/18802/Default.aspx.
My plan is to continue run durability training, work on my swim with the masters program, and do more long weekend rides on hills to try and dial in my power for the whole 56 miles. I haven't got a fall race yet but I am leaning towards B2B half since it is late in the year and I know the course.
Ralph, thanks for sharing the report. I have a few questions...
1) would love to see a bike file on line...strava? Garmin connect?
2) did you pee on the bike? No mention of it.
3) lower back pain...do you think that's because of the swim or lack of swim volume? or the hamstrings?
I am not sure you can race on that much fluid...but I'd need to know exactly what you took in and get confirmation from you that you have, in the past, been able to drink / eat that much at .8 IF. I can eat drink all day in an IM, but .8 is way different than .7...let's dig deeper!
#2 No, I drank about 8 bottles on the bike and I did not pee until just after I started the run. At B2B using the same plan, I peed 3 times on the bike but the weather was much cooler.
#3 I think the back pain is due to poor race prep. I was out of town for the entire time between Blue Ridge Camp and Race day so I never got a bike RR on the books. While I was out of town, I just filled the time with run volume. I was running pretty long for 2 days each weekend for 3 weeks before the race and when I run too much,my back tightens up. Basically, I think that I got complacent in thinking that I had done an IM so I would be OK in a HIM even if I didn't get all of my workouts in as scheduled. WRONG!
The points that I would make about the bike are that it is WAY lower than it should be. My FTP is 259 and My 80% should be about 205-207watts. As I look back over my IM power file, It is clear to me that I need to repeat year 2 of the EN 3 year plan. In both the run and the bike, I test well for short durations but need to work on maintaining the effort over the full distance. I can run a 5k in under 24 min but my marathon time is over 5 hours? On the bike , my FTP is 259 but my average for Raleigh was only 160w.
What do we need to do to improve this part of my race execution? Thanks R
Ralph, you don't have heart rate! BAD RALPH! Let's get that dialed in 100%...you need it to know if you are on track on race day or not.
The fact you rode IM effort in a HIM says there's some fatigue there...and a lack of sharpness. Could be the training challenges you described or something from the swim and over sighting / using your back.
If this is an endemic issue -- i/e/ all of your HIM training is low and not fast, then I'd look at putting more fast, as in Get Fast, into your year.
Some folks just evolve into having one gear over time, and if that's the case, then we can restructure to fight that.
So tell me more about your year vs just this race!
Patrick, I do, in fact, have the heart rate. I recorded the race on both my 910 and my 500 but for some reason the HR was not on the 500. Please find attached the link to the file from my 910. It has the entire race but I messed up on recording the swim so it looks like part of the bike. https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/790691659/1. It also has my run and you can see how my HR was spiking. My run HR is usually 120-130 and my Max is only 165 (treadmill tested by the cardiologist).
Since I have been concerned about my ability to maintain my watts over time in a race, I did this trainer workout today. 207 is my 0.80 watts and I held it fairly steady. My HR tends to run between 110 and 120 at that intensity as you can see. https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2158105-IF-0-80-x-2-Hrs
As far as my year goes, I had the hamstring pull in Nov of last year and so I did NO running intervals in the OS, just worked on durability. My Bike intervals (FTP) are improved 12-15% over last year this time. Last year was my first HIM and first IM and I think I got complacent because I knew I could do the distance. My race prep was not so good and I think that I never completely made the mental transition from training to finish the race (like last year) to shooting for a specific time. I have proved that I can do this thing but now I need to work more on my execution as far as training to perform at my predicted race power and pace over the course of the race.
I think that I will start working a long trainer ride into my schedule every couple of weeks to get better at the focus that it takes to maintain the output over time. BTW, drank 4 24 oz bottles of gatorade during the workout and was OK with it. I might need the bike fit tuned up since my back was a little bit sore about 1.5 hrs in today.
Ralph what I see in the image above is that your HR just declined all day...fade, fade, fade.
I'd prefer a much easer first 30' of the bike, so the HR drops...then builds back up. See my TX file below for the drop...then build up.
When you don't let the HR recover, you really can't build all day. I like your idea of the ride to get used to the effort, but you (a) have to fuel it properly and (b) must commit to a post T1 recovery window in the next race!
Hey Coach, Things are looking up. Hamstring is much better, back running at close to my pace before the injury, Bike is looking pretty good. Looking forward to Blue Ridge Camp next year. My question is this: I have scheduled a half marathon for the first weekend in December. I am not a big road racer and do not plan on doing anything to disrupt my OS training but this is a family event and I would like to participate. I would call the importance of the race a B- to C+and I really plan to use it just to get a better grip on my long run pace.
That being said, how would you suggest that I modify the OS plan to allow me to participate with the least impact downstream? R2
RM, that's great news on your health...and on this rainy day, I needed that reminder of how awesome the BRP is.
I say that you plan on running for about 75' on Wed, and about 90' on Sunday (if you aren't there now, then build it up), then brick runs. No real running intensity if the volume is new...we don't care about the paces yet, but when you are through the race (and recover one week), you can then get back to it.
Short answer -- keep the bikes as are, lengthen the two "run only days" and use bricks for frequency...
Comments
Congrats on Texas! Great Job.
You know that I have Raleigh coming up this weekend and as I was going over my Nutrition plan to fine tune it, I noticed that the HIM race execution instructions suggest taking in fewer calories than the IM race execution instructions but the spreadsheet calculator doesn't have different calculations for the HIM distance and there is not a specific recommendation.
The spreadsheet gives me 515 calories/hr for my weight. This is about 200 cal/hr higher than the range given in the race execution instructions. When I used this for my first HIM, I ended up with some stomach issues and the feedback was that I probably had too much nutrition (see thread above). On My IM, I used the same nutrition plan and did OK until I got into the run and then ended up using coke and chicken broth. Basically, I can take 2-3 bottles per hour on the bike with minimum problems because I practice it every ride but when I hit the run, I can't take nearly as much.
I was wondering if you had any specific caloric recommendations for HIM or should I just do what I know works for me on the bike and try to get in as much as I can on the run? I know that What I have practiced works well enough for me to finish but I am wondering if some fine-tuning might be beneficial. I was thinking of using 350 cal/hr as a target to see if I could fuel more evenly throughout the race. I would be interested in your advice on this.
ThanksRalph2
Step One, race nutrition begins TWELVE WEEKS BEFORE YOUR RACE, not the week of. Ain't nothing different you can do now, your body isn't ready.
Step Two, it's a lot, but you CAN take it in...it takes about FOUR TO SIX WEEKS OF PRACTICING 2-3X A WEEK to get to a place where you can take it in. Not just one or two rides. It's worth it.
The nutrition requirements are the same -- you are working at the same, if not harder effort...why would you need LESS FOOD / FLUIDS.
My plan is the same except for the carbo loading window is smaller, my breakfast is smaller pre-race, and since I transition to caffeine halfway through the bike, that is sped up, etc.
Still slightly more bottles in first hour (if going to be hot), a few bites of banana in T2, importance of early run calories.
Since we can't modify now, make a note of what you do end up doing so we can improve upon that!
Ps thanks for the kind TX words!
Things did not go so great overall but I ended up close to the negative split on the run. Nutrition was still an issue but no worse than previous races. The thing is that I practice it every workout. You might have noticed me carrying 5 bottles for the blue ridge camp. I drink 2-3 bottles per hour every time I am on the bike and use gels too. Somehow, on Race day it stops working about the time I get near the end of the bike. Anyways, my Race report is here http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/18802/Default.aspx.
My plan is to continue run durability training, work on my swim with the masters program, and do more long weekend rides on hills to try and dial in my power for the whole 56 miles. I haven't got a fall race yet but I am leaning towards B2B half since it is late in the year and I know the course.
I would be interested in your thoughts.
1) would love to see a bike file on line...strava? Garmin connect?
2) did you pee on the bike? No mention of it.
3) lower back pain...do you think that's because of the swim or lack of swim volume? or the hamstrings?
I am not sure you can race on that much fluid...but I'd need to know exactly what you took in and get confirmation from you that you have, in the past, been able to drink / eat that much at .8 IF. I can eat drink all day in an IM, but .8 is way different than .7...let's dig deeper!
Sorry for the delay, out of town for the past week with limited internet.
With regards to your questions above :
#1 BikeFile :https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/790688745
comparison : BRC day 1 : https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/761502701
B2B IM file : https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/620919613/3
#2 No, I drank about 8 bottles on the bike and I did not pee until just after I started the run. At B2B using the same plan, I peed 3 times on the bike but the weather was much cooler.
#3 I think the back pain is due to poor race prep. I was out of town for the entire time between Blue Ridge Camp and Race day so I never got a bike RR on the books. While I was out of town, I just filled the time with run volume. I was running pretty long for 2 days each weekend for 3 weeks before the race and when I run too much,my back tightens up. Basically, I think that I got complacent in thinking that I had done an IM so I would be OK in a HIM even if I didn't get all of my workouts in as scheduled. WRONG!
The points that I would make about the bike are that it is WAY lower than it should be. My FTP is 259 and My 80% should be about 205-207watts. As I look back over my IM power file, It is clear to me that I need to repeat year 2 of the EN 3 year plan. In both the run and the bike, I test well for short durations but need to work on maintaining the effort over the full distance. I can run a 5k in under 24 min but my marathon time is over 5 hours? On the bike , my FTP is 259 but my average for Raleigh was only 160w.
What do we need to do to improve this part of my race execution?
Thanks
R
The fact you rode IM effort in a HIM says there's some fatigue there...and a lack of sharpness. Could be the training challenges you described or something from the swim and over sighting / using your back.
If this is an endemic issue -- i/e/ all of your HIM training is low and not fast, then I'd look at putting more fast, as in Get Fast, into your year.
Some folks just evolve into having one gear over time, and if that's the case, then we can restructure to fight that.
So tell me more about your year vs just this race!
I do, in fact, have the heart rate. I recorded the race on both my 910 and my 500 but for some reason the HR was not on the 500. Please find attached the link to the file from my 910. It has the entire race but I messed up on recording the swim so it looks like part of the bike. https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/790691659/1. It also has my run and you can see how my HR was spiking. My run HR is usually 120-130 and my Max is only 165 (treadmill tested by the cardiologist).
Since I have been concerned about my ability to maintain my watts over time in a race, I did this trainer workout today. 207 is my 0.80 watts and I held it fairly steady. My HR tends to run between 110 and 120 at that intensity as you can see. https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2158105-IF-0-80-x-2-Hrs
As far as my year goes, I had the hamstring pull in Nov of last year and so I did NO running intervals in the OS, just worked on durability. My Bike intervals (FTP) are improved 12-15% over last year this time. Last year was my first HIM and first IM and I think I got complacent because I knew I could do the distance. My race prep was not so good and I think that I never completely made the mental transition from training to finish the race (like last year) to shooting for a specific time. I have proved that I can do this thing but now I need to work more on my execution as far as training to perform at my predicted race power and pace over the course of the race.
I think that I will start working a long trainer ride into my schedule every couple of weeks to get better at the focus that it takes to maintain the output over time. BTW, drank 4 24 oz bottles of gatorade during the workout and was OK with it. I might need the bike fit tuned up since my back was a little bit sore about 1.5 hrs in today.
Ralph what I see in the image above is that your HR just declined all day...fade, fade, fade.
I'd prefer a much easer first 30' of the bike, so the HR drops...then builds back up. See my TX file below for the drop...then build up.
When you don't let the HR recover, you really can't build all day. I like your idea of the ride to get used to the effort, but you (a) have to fuel it properly and (b) must commit to a post T1 recovery window in the next race!
Things are looking up. Hamstring is much better, back running at close to my pace before the injury, Bike is looking pretty good. Looking forward to Blue Ridge Camp next year.
My question is this: I have scheduled a half marathon for the first weekend in December. I am not a big road racer and do not plan on doing anything to disrupt my OS training but this is a family event and I would like to participate. I would call the importance of the race a B- to C+and I really plan to use it just to get a better grip on my long run pace.
That being said, how would you suggest that I modify the OS plan to allow me to participate with the least impact downstream?
R2
I say that you plan on running for about 75' on Wed, and about 90' on Sunday (if you aren't there now, then build it up), then brick runs. No real running intensity if the volume is new...we don't care about the paces yet, but when you are through the race (and recover one week), you can then get back to it.
Short answer -- keep the bikes as are, lengthen the two "run only days" and use bricks for frequency...