The Team EN Community Standards. Perhaps this just needs to be more prominent within the house and have a bit of added language.... Like, I will abide by ALL rules set down by USAT. And, when representing that I am part of EN, I will act accordingly.
From a newbie point of view. What did he/she/them do that is so bad? I don't want to make the same mistake. Don't want to know names.I want to learn from their error. I wish there was a USAT rules for dummies. It would help.
From a newbie point of view. What did he/she/them do that is so bad? I don't want to make the same mistake. Don't want to know names.I want to learn from their error. I wish there was a USAT rules for dummies. It would help.
The individual and a friend of theirs (non-EN'er) drafted their way all around the bike course in a two-person peloton and then joked about it on Facebook. They pretty much started the bike together and finished together. They're in just about all of each other's FinisherPix on the bike.
It's becoming increasingly difficult to 100% avoid drafting on many courses. On some, it's nearly impossible, due to the number of athletes in race, the terrain of the bike course, etc. We get that and encourage you to do the best you can.
But this was (1) actively working with another athlete, and (2) being stupid enough to brag and joke about it on social media.
I took screenshots and no one in the triathlon universe that we all live in and who knows the rules would give this conduct a pass, EN kit or no.
They worked together and traded pulls at the front on the whole course. Which, is EXACTLY how you do a TEAM time trial. Ironman is a solo time trial because two guys around a course are FASTER than one.
People race together all the time. Especially husband and wife, but usually they ride shoulder to shoulder (also not legal, but provides no aero advantage) or they ride with the required 7 meters. More common tho is that the stronger racer will wait for the slower one to catch up through out the day over all three sports.
One violation I saw all over the place at Chattanooga versus other races was pacing on the run. I saw it a handful of times where a civilian or person in a volunteer shirt was running with someone giving encouragement and pacing. That's not allowed.
I also saw one athlete, speaking of social media, post a thank you to her coach in the IMCHATT group page. Her thanks were specific to her coach running the first mile or so of the run with "all" his athletes telling them to "slow down, pace themselves and providing encouragement". Not really cool, honestly.
None of this is big deal to me, because I am racing myself. I am trying to PR. And, none of the folks I saw doing this were at the pointy end of the race. But, it does bug you when you are suffering and looking for something to be annoyed about when see people getting paced.
I agree with the others that have said that signing something does no good. The individual that will break the rules will break them regardless of signature or not. There needs to be a well defined CoC that outlines the consequences if violations occur. However, we don't need RnP being the "rules police". They are our coaches and should be able to focus their attention on making us better athletes. We are all adults and know right from wrong so the CoC should be self governing.
Said individuals were making comments at the EN gathering after the race and then followed them up with proof on social media. It's a sad and disappointing situation to say the least.
I saw the posts being discussed and a couple of notes/points/potential action items I’d like to add:
- I happened to see the posts and photos in question. For those that “missed” it, rest assured this was no accident and you could not inadvertently take the actions taken by this racer.
- I really like Bruce’s and Steve’s word “integrity” and Mark’s word “ambassador”. Every time we put on an EN kit we represent the “brand” (Michael’s word, I like this too) and should behave accordingly. Of course, it shouldn’t take a logo to make this innate, but I digress…
Action Item #1: Accountability - I also “cringed” when I saw this, but did nothing about it. I did not myself call the person out. This will be different in the future and is where I think being very up front about our ethics as a team will be important.The best way to make sure nothing like this happens again is for us EACH to hold EACH OTHER accountable. R n P can’t be everywhere, but if our culture makes it very clear that we will not tolerate it from our peers, then it becomes inherent to our collective character.
Action Item #2: Code of Conduct/Community Standards- I’m not sure that a code of conduct will ensure this, but it may be a good “level set” to get us collectively pointing to our true North which should, of course include being fair and sportsmanlike competitors. I do like the core values being prominently displayed and discussed. These core values could include good sportsmanship in addition to other great things about EN which I personally believe are things like being inclusive, constructive, etc.I like that Dino pointed out the Community Standards and maybe there is no need to reinvent the wheel there, but it could use a refresh.Or it could be fun to get an EN4K Core Values to go along with our Training and Racing!
Pretty sure Bob has hacked his way into my ADT system and is watching me type this.Like my robe and bunny slippers Bob?
One violation I saw all over the place at Chattanooga versus other races was pacing on the run. I saw it a handful of times where a civilian or person in a volunteer shirt was running with someone giving encouragement and pacing. That's not allowed.
I also saw one athlete, speaking of social media, post a thank you to her coach in the IMCHATT group page. Her thanks were specific to her coach running the first mile or so of the run with "all" his athletes telling them to "slow down, pace themselves and providing encouragement". Not really cool, honestly.
None of this is big deal to me, because I am racing myself. I am trying to PR. And, none of the folks I saw doing this were at the pointy end of the race. But, it does bug you when you are suffering and looking for something to be annoyed about when see people getting paced.
RnP will NEVER run with you, walk with you in the dark, etc.
You signed up to test yourself in the Dark Place. Tens of thousands of athletes have done it the right way and earned the title without the woobie of a coach, friend, or spouse rubbing their belly and telling them it's ok.
Suck it up and get it done on your own, the right way.
The above is true regardless of finish time, race goals, etc.
Thanks guys for cluing me in. The drafting/passing rule still confuses me. I've been told 3 different lengths and times by 2 different USAT officials. I've chosen to go with Rich's and what I've read.
Codes of conduct have little value...how about principles for how we conduct ourselves with the coaches having the right to deny continued membership status to anyone that doesn't represent the ideals and principles of the team.
Personal integrity is very important to me. I saw 4 members of a team at the Vineman who were in a peloton and I was disgusted, angry, and wishing all kinds of bad juju on them because it was so blatant. I didn't think much of them as a team or individuals because of their actions. Yes, drafting does happen sometimes because of the crowded nature of the bike especially in the early stages and I do draft in the swim and the run when it is to my advantage, but the last time I checked that was legal. But to willfully draft should get more than just a time penalty and if it's done by a team mate it reflects poorly on all of us.
Coach Rich did a really good coach's chat about drafting and outside assistance here http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/afv/post/aft/16915/aff/24/Default.aspx I've been racing for a long time and this was the best explanation I've ever seen. It even made me decide to pursue becoming a USAT ref so I can give back to the sport and maybe get a ride on Rich's motorcycle some day.
I suggest they make the time penalty for drafting 30 minutes. Make it so severe that people won't take the chance. I've heard people at races say "I don't mind if I get caught, I'll more than make up the four minutes by drafting and be fresher to run." Makes me sick!
One violation I saw all over the place at Chattanooga versus other races was pacing on the run. I saw it a handful of times where a civilian or person in a volunteer shirt was running with someone giving encouragement and pacing. That's not allowed.
I also saw one athlete, speaking of social media, post a thank you to her coach in the IMCHATT group page. Her thanks were specific to her coach running the first mile or so of the run with "all" his athletes telling them to "slow down, pace themselves and providing encouragement". Not really cool, honestly.
None of this is big deal to me, because I am racing myself. I am trying to PR. And, none of the folks I saw doing this were at the pointy end of the race. But, it does bug you when you are suffering and looking for something to be annoyed about when see people getting paced.
RnP will NEVER run with you, walk with you in the dark, etc.
You signed up to test yourself in the Dark Place. Tens of thousands of athletes have done it the right way and earned the title without the woobie of a coach, friend, or spouse rubbing their belly and telling them it's ok.
Suck it up and get it done on your own, the right way.
The above is true regardless of finish time, race goals, etc.
I think the team is too big at the point. I don't think you and Patrick could have done 36 x 1 mile repeats up that first hill....
Action Item #1: Accountability - I also “cringed” when I saw this, but did nothing about it. I did not myself call the person out. This will be different in the future and is where I think being very up front about our ethics as a team will be important.The best way to make sure nothing like this happens again is for us EACH to hold EACH OTHER accountable. R n P can’t be everywhere, but if our culture makes it very clear that we will not tolerate it from our peers, then it becomes inherent to our collective character.
I took a passive approach to it as well. My first thought was to fire up an email or Facebook PM to Rich and Patrick with a "Did you see what they just posted on their FB page?" Second thought was it was really none of my business. Third thought was I wasn't the only one that saw that and my guess was it would be taken care of soon enough.
Action Item #1: Accountability - I also “cringed” when I saw this, but did nothing about it. I did not myself call the person out. This will be different in the future and is where I think being very up front about our ethics as a team will be important.The best way to make sure nothing like this happens again is for us EACH to hold EACH OTHER accountable. R n P can’t be everywhere, but if our culture makes it very clear that we will not tolerate it from our peers, then it becomes inherent to our collective character.
I took a passive approach to it as well. My first thought was to fire up an email or Facebook PM to Rich and Patrick with a "Did you see what they just posted on their FB page?" Second thought was it was really none of my business. Third thought was I wasn't the only one that saw that and my guess was it would be taken care of soon enough.
I won't be passive about this stuff anymore.
I just happened to stumble upon it. Otherwise we would have never known.
We are adults and know what is proper and what is not. If someone is inclined willfully to ignore the rules, and I do not mean a simple drafting penalty or dropping a water bottle-type littering penalty, the fact that they signed an EN "code of conduct" will not make a damn bit of difference. Regardless, Rich and Patrick have worked to build something. If they feel someone steps over the line, regardless of the issue, it is R&P's prerogative to kindly (or not so kindly) escort that person to the door. EN is not the government and membership in this team is a privilege not a right; R&P do not need to afford due process to anyone they decide should no longer be on the team.
On another note, all of this chatter has me curious and I have a feeling part of my day will be spent looking at Finisherpix.
This is a great teachable moment for the team. The VAST majority of us are here to push our own limits and suffer through the 'Dark Place' and come out the other side having done it ourselves. Nevertheless it is easy under the pressure of 'win,place,show' for people bend or break not just the rules but the ideals and conduct of the game. It should be made clear that this is unacceptable behavior for EN and not in anyway what this team is about, that EN members should hold ourselves to the highest standard of the game.
I believe that RnP as EN is their brand and their business have the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime, they don't need an agreement from us. But its an opportunity to teach the team: put the language in somewhere for newbies, make it part of the orientation, make it part of 4keys.
As for this incident, make it public to the team: send a email to the team discussing the incident and the consequences. You don't have to name names, but you should make it clear what was violated and the action RnP took. You will have tremendous support from the rest of us, who don't want our own names and efforts sullied by the stupidity/selfishness of others.
So what I'm getting from all this was there was a 2 man peloton at IM Chatt that included an EN member. Seems like you could execute this strategy legally as in Macca working to get a group to ride hard together at legal distances to break Crowie. He wrote about it in his book I'm Here to Win. So I'm guessing that this case must have included wheel-sucking drafting by both that was observed by other teammates as opposed to trading pulls but with 7 meter separation. Is that the case? Did they claim on social media that they were drafting or just that they worked together? Anyone care to paraphrase what was said? Like John, this has me very curious.
Really interesting thread. I agree with many of the sentiments already expressed so not much to add. Btw, it doesn't take much creativity to guess who it was…I got it right on the very first guess. It was of no surprise to me. I don't know why there is such hesitancy to identify the particular individual but out of respect for our coaches' wish to "not name names" I won’t give it away.
As I said, I don't have anything to add beyond that which has already been posted. If I were to summarize the points that most encapsulate my view:
- This particular person should be off the team
- I do not think anyone should have to "sign" a code of conduct...this is not about contracts and rules and things that are then subject to hair-splitting and interpretation. Rather it is about people conducting themselves in a manner consistent with good sportsmanship and the highest integrity
- Any individual's behavior reflects on the whole team. The risk to the brand is very real, both due to any athlete's unbecoming conduct as well as the team's failure to react to a situation appropriately when it arises
- WTCs assessment of penalties are an imperfect and inappropriate metric
Just saw this, and I realized how slow I was on the uptake of all this, because I saw the FB posts in question (as I think reasonably well verified by some of the details from finisher pix...) but I didn't even put two and two together. When I first saw them, I glanced at them and wondered "I wonder what the hell that means" and moved on...now I understand it was meant pretty literally.
Oy.
Codes of conduct (or whatever you want to call them) in the Community Standards are good to have for reference...and I think should be there, but are not particularly "effective". I think the most effecting thing to do is to have a short set of bullet points under a phrase of something like "Remember, you represent yourself and the EN Team out there. Keep in mind a few key things:..." This would go out in race captain mailings and some variation could be a slide at 4Keys talks.
Paul - as of today, this post still can be found on Facebook (names deleted):
"Very happy for [name deleted] with his first Ironman and one HELL of a time!!! We had a blast and really gambled on the bike with [same name] allowing me to block the wind for him [sic. should be a period here and a new sentence] at 112 mile we were at [good bike split time deleted] so very happy but had some GOD awful back cramps!!!! Glad a person I helped train showed me the business but damn we had fun. Poor [different name] should have been here to play, period!!!!"
(Let me apologize in advance to the poster of that in the case that I have reached a false conclusion about identity.)
There were other posts that seem to have been deleted.
As a point of information, searching member names here is not very informative to sleuths, since ex-members' usernames and activity feeds continue to show up.
While signing a code of conduct might be meaningless to whoever would want to do something like this, I do think it can help protect the brand. It would be R/P/EN putting out there that this is where we stand and we will deal with anyone who doesn't obey. I also think it can be highlighted in 4keys that we all represent the team. While I don't understand why individuals want to risk their integrity, I feel that for some who are speedy but still far from FOP, they see it as "what's the harm in cheating. i'm not stealing anyone's podium, I'm just seeing what I can do for fun" so reminding them that there is harm to others (the team) might help, but also might fall on deaf ears. I really love this team and everyone I have met, and seen just what a strong community it is. I'd hate for anyone to tarnish the name.
What would be cool is if GPS technology could get to the point where the accuracy is good enough to just automatically find/penalize folks drafting.
The FB posts by both participants left zero interpretation of what happened: one guy was doing the majority of the "blocking the wind," the other benefitted from it greatly, they traded pulls, and more importantly they were both proud of their acts, having a grand ole time.
To paraphrase me in email conversations: "see the highlighted bits of these screenshots. Nowhere in the known triathlon universe that you and I both occupy does this behavior get a pass. The fact that you continue to just not get it, and are in a position of leadership, is beyond sad."
I'm not interested in outing anyone because I'm too busy coaching this squad of awesome athletes and great people. More importantly, PnI are committed to creating, living, and working within a Douchebag Free Zone. That zone just got little more cheerful
William - check, I know who you are talking about and only came to that suspicion last night based on all the clues in this thread. Giving the person full benefit of the doubt, I would have two questions about the FB post:
1) Did "blocking the wind" mean wheel sucking drafting or legal distance drafting? Even at the legal pro separation there is a draft benefit, more so for age groupers. 2) Did "taking a gamble" mean they were risking getting a penalty or did it mean they were laying down their 'could bike' split and risking blowing up on the run?
I stand by my comment that flagrant cheaters should be shown the door, but on that one post alone you could not say someone was cheating. Too bad the other posts were deleted (which is indicative), I would have liked to have read them and seen the photos. But I understand the Coaches were there and have more info. I'm truly saddened and disappointed to learn who this is, but based on Matt's comment that this was not a surprise, there must be other things about this person that I'm unaware of.
Zero doubt about what was going on. More importantly, this instance is consistent with a pattern of behavior, poor judgement, and just "that's stuff that doesn't belong here" actions that's been on our radar for a while.
After 4 years of EN I trust RnPs judgement on this completely.
My only additional comment would be that EN should help to ensure that new folks know that this activity is not legal in a race or condoned by EN. I say new folks meaning, new to the sport. I know it's in the athletes guide but it is pretty easy for teammates who know they may come out of the water at 1:30 and say, " I'll meet you in T1", not realizing they are potentially going to engage in cheating by working together on the bike. Even if they are not cheating by drafting off each other there is a perception issue that's worth guarding.
Clearly what occurred at chatt was not accidental but planned out.
What also bugs me is knowing how much physically harder it is to ride legal. Stuck surrounded by folks the first 30 miles of IMFL saves lots of watts compared to a nearly solo 112 miles at Chesapeake man. World of difference.
Great points. I suggest a code be put on the site and new and old members get an email that states that paying the monthly fee is an agreement to race and train by that code. Enforcement which will be rarely necessary will obviously be done at RnP's discretion. No drawn out tribunals ,etc. Lets move on and get back to training, racing, and or recovering. Happy and proud to be a member of EN.
I started the infamous thread regarding this stuff back in 2011 as IMFL was nearing.
My intentions were innocent.....legal distance 100% of the time. Never had any intentions other than obeying the letter of the law with the 7m (or 10 or whatever, I'm not racing this year so I haven't brushed up on this) distance. Each rider would be an eye on the other, would motivate you to keep on the gas or to back off.
But, there are unavoidable pitfalls to this...swim times are too unpredictable, goal w/kg's vary too much and deviating from one's own plan is race sabotage, etc. I think there were even some more strategic points that were brought up.
The thread went south when morality was introduced into the discussion. This keg of dynamite lived in a grey area, clouded by the justification of claiming to stick to the 7m, or 10, rule. It's teamwork, no way around that.
And, when I came to realize the potential for disaster for EN's image, there was no way I would carry through with it. I had progressed immensely with EN's guidance and resources. But, I'm greedy and I wanted to be a little faster, sooner rather then later. And, my EGO was about to push the envelope for a few minutes reward. However, any risk to EN's name or my name was easily brushed aside. Ego is a very powerful animal.
I never meant any harm.
Funny thing is...
it may have been the most rewarding post I ever threw out there. I listened to the feedback. Had no problem hearing people through. Listened to the concerns about character, unwritten codes, the house that R & P built. And, I knew that this was a thought, an idea, that had no place in my heart. My ego took a shot and had to stand down.
Had I not discussed my ideas with the team, who knows what would've happened. How many fires would I have had to put out after that? What direction would my life, personal and athletic, end up going as I'd be forced to justify/rationalize my actions and rebuild my reputation? Who knows what kind of impact it would've had on the livelihood of hardworking folks like Rich and Patrick who have families to provide for while I was thinking they are just there to make me faster?
My point is....
I don't think this fella started out down this path with malicious intent. As was mentioned earlier, a competitive AGer that isn't competing for awards can feel like nobody is watching. If I'm just trying to go faster, and I'm not affecting the awards, then this whole race on any give day is just my playground. Well, it's not that simple, is it? I don't know how he is handling this. Can't speak for him. But, as a family man, I'm guessing he's regretting this. Just like I would have had I not been so lucky to open my mouth at the right time....and my ears.
Thank you, to all of you. I don't think you know how much that one little banter back and forth helped save me from a ton of headache!
Comments
The Team EN Community Standards. Perhaps this just needs to be more prominent within the house and have a bit of added language.... Like, I will abide by ALL rules set down by USAT. And, when representing that I am part of EN, I will act accordingly.
:-)
From a newbie point of view. What did he/she/them do that is so bad? I don't want to make the same mistake. Don't want to know names.I want to learn from their error. I wish there was a USAT rules for dummies. It would help.
The individual and a friend of theirs (non-EN'er) drafted their way all around the bike course in a two-person peloton and then joked about it on Facebook. They pretty much started the bike together and finished together. They're in just about all of each other's FinisherPix on the bike.
It's becoming increasingly difficult to 100% avoid drafting on many courses. On some, it's nearly impossible, due to the number of athletes in race, the terrain of the bike course, etc. We get that and encourage you to do the best you can.
But this was (1) actively working with another athlete, and (2) being stupid enough to brag and joke about it on social media.I took screenshots and no one in the triathlon universe that we all live in and who knows the rules would give this conduct a pass, EN kit or no.
People race together all the time. Especially husband and wife, but usually they ride shoulder to shoulder (also not legal, but provides no aero advantage) or they ride with the required 7 meters. More common tho is that the stronger racer will wait for the slower one to catch up through out the day over all three sports.
One violation I saw all over the place at Chattanooga versus other races was pacing on the run. I saw it a handful of times where a civilian or person in a volunteer shirt was running with someone giving encouragement and pacing. That's not allowed.
I also saw one athlete, speaking of social media, post a thank you to her coach in the IMCHATT group page. Her thanks were specific to her coach running the first mile or so of the run with "all" his athletes telling them to "slow down, pace themselves and providing encouragement". Not really cool, honestly.
None of this is big deal to me, because I am racing myself. I am trying to PR. And, none of the folks I saw doing this were at the pointy end of the race. But, it does bug you when you are suffering and looking for something to be annoyed about when see people getting paced.
Said individuals were making comments at the EN gathering after the race and then followed them up with proof on social media. It's a sad and disappointing situation to say the least.
Sorry that this is even having to be a discussion.
Sure, write it up. We will sign it.
A good general reminder about representing ones self to the world.
Thanks R n P for chiming in here.
I saw the posts being discussed and a couple of notes/points/potential action items I’d like to add:
- I happened to see the posts and photos in question. For those that “missed” it, rest assured this was no accident and you could not inadvertently take the actions taken by this racer.
- I really like Bruce’s and Steve’s word “integrity” and Mark’s word “ambassador”. Every time we put on an EN kit we represent the “brand” (Michael’s word, I like this too) and should behave accordingly. Of course, it shouldn’t take a logo to make this innate, but I digress…
Action Item #1: Accountability - I also “cringed” when I saw this, but did nothing about it. I did not myself call the person out. This will be different in the future and is where I think being very up front about our ethics as a team will be important. The best way to make sure nothing like this happens again is for us EACH to hold EACH OTHER accountable. R n P can’t be everywhere, but if our culture makes it very clear that we will not tolerate it from our peers, then it becomes inherent to our collective character.
Action Item #2: Code of Conduct/Community Standards - I’m not sure that a code of conduct will ensure this, but it may be a good “level set” to get us collectively pointing to our true North which should, of course include being fair and sportsmanlike competitors. I do like the core values being prominently displayed and discussed. These core values could include good sportsmanship in addition to other great things about EN which I personally believe are things like being inclusive, constructive, etc. I like that Dino pointed out the Community Standards and maybe there is no need to reinvent the wheel there, but it could use a refresh. Or it could be fun to get an EN4K Core Values to go along with our Training and Racing!
Pretty sure Bob has hacked his way into my ADT system and is watching me type this. Like my robe and bunny slippers Bob?
RnP will NEVER run with you, walk with you in the dark, etc.
You signed up to test yourself in the Dark Place. Tens of thousands of athletes have done it the right way and earned the title without the woobie of a coach, friend, or spouse rubbing their belly and telling them it's ok.
Suck it up and get it done on your own, the right way.
The above is true regardless of finish time, race goals, etc.
Thanks guys for cluing me in. The drafting/passing rule still confuses me. I've been told 3 different lengths and times by 2 different USAT officials. I've chosen to go with Rich's and what I've read.
Thanks Coach for not running with us.
Personal integrity is very important to me. I saw 4 members of a team at the Vineman who were in a peloton and I was disgusted, angry, and wishing all kinds of bad juju on them because it was so blatant. I didn't think much of them as a team or individuals because of their actions. Yes, drafting does happen sometimes because of the crowded nature of the bike especially in the early stages and I do draft in the swim and the run when it is to my advantage, but the last time I checked that was legal. But to willfully draft should get more than just a time penalty and if it's done by a team mate it reflects poorly on all of us.
Coach Rich did a really good coach's chat about drafting and outside assistance here http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/afv/post/aft/16915/aff/24/Default.aspx I've been racing for a long time and this was the best explanation I've ever seen. It even made me decide to pursue becoming a USAT ref so I can give back to the sport and maybe get a ride on Rich's motorcycle some day.
I think the team is too big at the point. I don't think you and Patrick could have done 36 x 1 mile repeats up that first hill....
I took a passive approach to it as well. My first thought was to fire up an email or Facebook PM to Rich and Patrick with a "Did you see what they just posted on their FB page?" Second thought was it was really none of my business. Third thought was I wasn't the only one that saw that and my guess was it would be taken care of soon enough.
I won't be passive about this stuff anymore.
I just happened to stumble upon it. Otherwise we would have never known.
On another note, all of this chatter has me curious and I have a feeling part of my day will be spent looking at Finisherpix.
This is a great teachable moment for the team. The VAST majority of us are here to push our own limits and suffer through the 'Dark Place' and come out the other side having done it ourselves. Nevertheless it is easy under the pressure of 'win,place,show' for people bend or break not just the rules but the ideals and conduct of the game. It should be made clear that this is unacceptable behavior for EN and not in anyway what this team is about, that EN members should hold ourselves to the highest standard of the game.
I believe that RnP as EN is their brand and their business have the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime, they don't need an agreement from us. But its an opportunity to teach the team: put the language in somewhere for newbies, make it part of the orientation, make it part of 4keys.
As for this incident, make it public to the team: send a email to the team discussing the incident and the consequences. You don't have to name names, but you should make it clear what was violated and the action RnP took. You will have tremendous support from the rest of us, who don't want our own names and efforts sullied by the stupidity/selfishness of others.
As I said, I don't have anything to add beyond that which has already been posted. If I were to summarize the points that most encapsulate my view:
- This particular person should be off the team
- I do not think anyone should have to "sign" a code of conduct...this is not about contracts and rules and things that are then subject to hair-splitting and interpretation. Rather it is about people conducting themselves in a manner consistent with good sportsmanship and the highest integrity
- Any individual's behavior reflects on the whole team. The risk to the brand is very real, both due to any athlete's unbecoming conduct as well as the team's failure to react to a situation appropriately when it arises
- WTCs assessment of penalties are an imperfect and inappropriate metric
Oy.
Codes of conduct (or whatever you want to call them) in the Community Standards are good to have for reference...and I think should be there, but are not particularly "effective". I think the most effecting thing to do is to have a short set of bullet points under a phrase of something like "Remember, you represent yourself and the EN Team out there. Keep in mind a few key things:..." This would go out in race captain mailings and some variation could be a slide at 4Keys talks.
Paul - as of today, this post still can be found on Facebook (names deleted):
"Very happy for [name deleted] with his first Ironman and one HELL of a time!!! We had a blast and really gambled on the bike with [same name] allowing me to block the wind for him [sic. should be a period here and a new sentence] at 112 mile we were at [good bike split time deleted] so very happy but had some GOD awful back cramps!!!! Glad a person I helped train showed me the business but damn we had fun. Poor [different name] should have been here to play, period!!!!"
(Let me apologize in advance to the poster of that in the case that I have reached a false conclusion about identity.)
There were other posts that seem to have been deleted.
As a point of information, searching member names here is not very informative to sleuths, since ex-members' usernames and activity feeds continue to show up.
What would be cool is if GPS technology could get to the point where the accuracy is good enough to just automatically find/penalize folks drafting.
Paul,
The FB posts by both participants left zero interpretation of what happened: one guy was doing the majority of the "blocking the wind," the other benefitted from it greatly, they traded pulls, and more importantly they were both proud of their acts, having a grand ole time.
To paraphrase me in email conversations: "see the highlighted bits of these screenshots. Nowhere in the known triathlon universe that you and I both occupy does this behavior get a pass. The fact that you continue to just not get it, and are in a position of leadership, is beyond sad."
I'm not interested in outing anyone because I'm too busy coaching this squad of awesome athletes and great people. More importantly, PnI are committed to creating, living, and working within a Douchebag Free Zone. That zone just got little more cheerful
1) Did "blocking the wind" mean wheel sucking drafting or legal distance drafting? Even at the legal pro separation there is a draft benefit, more so for age groupers.
2) Did "taking a gamble" mean they were risking getting a penalty or did it mean they were laying down their 'could bike' split and risking blowing up on the run?
I stand by my comment that flagrant cheaters should be shown the door, but on that one post alone you could not say someone was cheating. Too bad the other posts were deleted (which is indicative), I would have liked to have read them and seen the photos. But I understand the Coaches were there and have more info. I'm truly saddened and disappointed to learn who this is, but based on Matt's comment that this was not a surprise, there must be other things about this person that I'm unaware of.
"Blocking the wind"
"trading pulls"
"we only did it for about 15 miles"
"everyone else was doing it'
"it happens."
Zero doubt about what was going on. More importantly, this instance is consistent with a pattern of behavior, poor judgement, and just "that's stuff that doesn't belong here" actions that's been on our radar for a while.
After 4 years of EN I trust RnPs judgement on this completely.
My only additional comment would be that EN should help to ensure that new folks know that this activity is not legal in a race or condoned by EN. I say new folks meaning, new to the sport. I know it's in the athletes guide but it is pretty easy for teammates who know they may come out of the water at 1:30 and say, " I'll meet you in T1", not realizing they are potentially going to engage in cheating by working together on the bike. Even if they are not cheating by drafting off each other there is a perception issue that's worth guarding.
Clearly what occurred at chatt was not accidental but planned out.
What also bugs me is knowing how much physically harder it is to ride legal. Stuck surrounded by folks the first 30 miles of IMFL saves lots of watts compared to a nearly solo 112 miles at Chesapeake man. World of difference.
My intentions were innocent.....legal distance 100% of the time. Never had any intentions other than obeying the letter of the law with the 7m (or 10 or whatever, I'm not racing this year so I haven't brushed up on this) distance. Each rider would be an eye on the other, would motivate you to keep on the gas or to back off.
But, there are unavoidable pitfalls to this...swim times are too unpredictable, goal w/kg's vary too much and deviating from one's own plan is race sabotage, etc. I think there were even some more strategic points that were brought up.
The thread went south when morality was introduced into the discussion. This keg of dynamite lived in a grey area, clouded by the justification of claiming to stick to the 7m, or 10, rule. It's teamwork, no way around that.
And, when I came to realize the potential for disaster for EN's image, there was no way I would carry through with it. I had progressed immensely with EN's guidance and resources. But, I'm greedy and I wanted to be a little faster, sooner rather then later. And, my EGO was about to push the envelope for a few minutes reward. However, any risk to EN's name or my name was easily brushed aside. Ego is a very powerful animal.
I never meant any harm.
Funny thing is...
it may have been the most rewarding post I ever threw out there. I listened to the feedback. Had no problem hearing people through. Listened to the concerns about character, unwritten codes, the house that R & P built. And, I knew that this was a thought, an idea, that had no place in my heart. My ego took a shot and had to stand down.
Had I not discussed my ideas with the team, who knows what would've happened. How many fires would I have had to put out after that? What direction would my life, personal and athletic, end up going as I'd be forced to justify/rationalize my actions and rebuild my reputation? Who knows what kind of impact it would've had on the livelihood of hardworking folks like Rich and Patrick who have families to provide for while I was thinking they are just there to make me faster?
My point is....
I don't think this fella started out down this path with malicious intent. As was mentioned earlier, a competitive AGer that isn't competing for awards can feel like nobody is watching. If I'm just trying to go faster, and I'm not affecting the awards, then this whole race on any give day is just my playground. Well, it's not that simple, is it? I don't know how he is handling this. Can't speak for him. But, as a family man, I'm guessing he's regretting this. Just like I would have had I not been so lucky to open my mouth at the right time....and my ears.
Thank you, to all of you. I don't think you know how much that one little banter back and forth helped save me from a ton of headache!