Ed Eovino's micro thread
Patrick.. Thanks so much for the reply this morning. It was far more insightful than I had expected. I expected something along the lines of… “Current plan is fine”. What you gave instead helped me crystallize my goals and framed a path for my success moving forward this year.
I had toyed with the idea of attending your camp for IMTX, but frankly wasn’t sure how beneficial such a time/travel commitment would be. I’m in now! I was looking at the registration page and I guess hotel/meals are included in the price now?
Sorry to have submitted the original question the way I did. I know the micro forum is the place to normally ask questions… but I saw the pop up on the dashboard and figured you were trying something new.
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Yes to the Camp including lodging and food (welcome reception and Sat dinner, plus hotel food). Friday dinner not on the agenda for full disclosure)...it's just better for all. Please let me know if you need any help with that, etc.
Thanks!
Patrick
As if someone telling me she can did deep and push her HR to 200 didn't scare me enough.... now she gets the coach P "Monster" endorsement.. I'll be sure to stay outta her way!
In the NOS season TP it says to start increasing the bike time if you can get outside... or only if told to do so by one of the coaches specifically. Well... I am relegated to my basement dungeon due to the arctic cold of another Missouri Winter. I need to get the bike up for Texas IM camp.. and ultimately IMTX. I don't much mind the trainer (I know... something wrong with me).
How should I proceed? Should I just start moving the sat ride closer and closer to the 3-4 hour mark?... or should I temper my enthusiasm for now?
I need a little bit of guidance about run/bike zones. The OS is working ... I've felt a total disconnect between my perceived exertion level... HR.. and pace on the run. For instance tonight I was able to handle 7x1/4 mile pretty easily... so I finished the last interval as 1 mile at 6:20. My zone 5... if you you the paces from the last test says z5 is 6:50's. Should I just keep overachieving these intervals... or stick with the paces from last test? I don't want to run straight into an overtraining wall so close to the end of OS.
I should add... This OS is really the only time i've consistently done intervals... and the workout was on a TM at the gym... my tests are done outside... so that might account for some of the disconnect.
I did my big day yesterday... swim 2200 yards in :45 ..cut it a bit short as I was starting to get some toe/calf cramps and didn't want to sabotage the rest of the day... 4 hour bike at 72% FTP consistent... and then a 7 mile run...3 miles z1... then 2.25 z2... When the big quad cramp came and I shut it down to z1 again.
I've had this cramp in almost every one of my races and it really has been a performance limiter. I'm worried about how I'm going to deal with the heat at IMTX and obviously need to make some changes before camp in March...
Morning pre swim:
2 bananas
1 Carmel Macchiato GU (60 mg sodium)
1 bottle water
After swim pre ride:
2 salt stick tabs (430mg sodium)
Bike: 4 hours…. Per hour amounts…475 calories(1420mg sodium)
17 scoops of Gatorade Endurance mixed with 150oz water
1360 calories(4930mg sodium)
2 GU Salted Caramel/Caramel macchiato
200 calories (180mg sodium)
2 Power bar wafer bars
340 calories (140 mg sodium)
2 Salt Stick tabs (430 mg sodium)
Run: 7 mile run
3 scoops of Gatorade Endurance mixed with 22 oz water
240 calories (570mg sodium)
#1 - Go with powerbar gels vs Gu as they have more than double that level of sodium which is critical.
#2 - I would go with a salt stick every hour on the bike, starting our of transition...so 0, 1, 2, 3, 4....
#3 - you will need to eat on the run...no food there, again I would go for a powergel...usually one of those every 3 miles on average, but you can review the nutrition plan section of the wiki for how we want you to pace it out.
Questions:
1) Did you pee at all on the bike? Ideally you would have peed at least 1x (2x on race day).
2) what did you eat the day before? Did you pre-load some sodium?
3) where is the quad cramp? And how tight are your quads in general? Could be that you could use some foam rolling / self-care love...
I definatly will keep a better watch on the diet leading up to the WO... I didn't really do this... and no... I didn't preloaded...I will from now on..
The cramp was in the tear drop muscle next to my knee...I haven't been working the roller... I'll start
Powerbar gels are ordered..
I posted this in the forum as well and got a great response from Mike Roberts. He suggested that maybe at least part of the problem is that I'm not really in 6 hour WO shape yet and I've worked beyond my current fitness? That would make sense as most of the times I've cramped have been in races where I'm pushing it pretty hard... harder than EN race plan dictates..
Thanks for the response... really looking forward to IMTX camp... can't wait to get a glimpse of the course... and put some of this to work!
Coach P... Just checking in... 2 1/2 weeks post Texas... Trying to work back into ADV IM plan for Boulder 8/2.
As predicted swims been OK... bike is starting to come back online... Yesterday I skipped the FTP test, but did a hard :20 effort... felt pretty good. Was able to push a little over 270 watts... mostly aero... my FTP before TX was 278... so I'm happy.. Since the race I have been experiencing a little knee discomfort. I think it's patella tendonitis... but it seems to be getting a little better each day.
Today I did a 6 mile run with a 2x1(4)effort.. HR still seems a bit elevated across the board. I'm just trying to keep moving forward and hitting as many of the WO's as I can.. I'll try to keep the worry about Boulder prep and missed WO's at bay for another week... but after that I'll be worrying for sure!
On the bike, watch out for that knee. Make sure you aren't running a super low cadence. Consider Rock Tape, videos for knees here: www.athletestreatingathletes.com Shit really works.
Was great to watch you at Kona... Congrats on a great race... Hope you're enjoying some well deserved rest.
I'm in a good head space with training right now. Rich has me starting Run durability #1 Monday to be followed by #2&3 and then into Jan OS... I worked ahead this week (should be a recovery from Half marathon I did last Saturday) but I felt so good I just jumped ahead to week one of the plan. The long Sunday run calls for "goal race pace" IM or for a marathon? Both pretty different... Not sure how hard I should be pushing those long runs with durability as the focus... I do feel pretty fast right now.( for me...lol)
Season plan is to do Wisconsin and Louisville next Fall... In the spring I'm going to race a bunch of half marathons and a OLY in May. I haven't been swimming. I'm going to do Jan OS so the swim will be shelved for most of that I suspect... Should I use up the SAUs and hit the pool this winter? Plan calls for a swim a week... But my stroke was getting pretty bad at the end of last season ( Boulder).
Thanks
In terms of a goal a space, I recommend that you target your desired arm in one piece. Now if you never had a good run, that may be hard to come by. For me I know that pace is between seven minutes and 7:15s. That's the kind of pace that feels easy and training but for some reason is relentlessly hard on race day.
Was having a chat with Mike Roberts about run durability and I have a question...
I understand pushing 2X20 intervals on the bike to the brink to get faster... less chance of injury... easier than running to recover so you're not derailing future work.
Same with swim...
Completely agree with the opinion that the risk to us old folks running z-4 to train for IM racing is too great. So were stuck with something like RD... (which I think is wonderful and I've really enjoyed picking up the volume). What I don't think the current protocol catches is the fact that if you do it as prescribed your gains will stall pretty fast.
Test... pick the mid point between Z1 and Z2 and run. At the beginning your HR will be higher... but as you gain fitness the same work becomes easier and the HR drops (working less... diminishing returns). After a few months your HR for this workload will probably fall below your ideal HR for racing IM. Why aren't we running all our runs at the HR we've proven works from past races instead of this pace number?. Not diminishing... and even better imprints race feel on us all the time. Getting comfortable at... and being able to sustain work at this number is really what we're after anyway... no? The risk of injury and fatigue couldn't be that much greater...
Well anyway... Have an awesome Christmas and New Year!
** if you look at my WO from today 12/18 I think it illustrates my point. I ran IMTX last year at 142-144 BPM... Today's run had me locked into 138 BPM for the first 2.5 miles... Only after I started using the manual elevation button did my HR get into "race" zone. The end of my run I spiked the HR with increase of pace and steady increase of elevation.
1, the RD program has you running consistently for 14 weeks...that consistent running adds up and adds training stress in a level you can handle;
2, the RD focus has you adding miles each week. Even with the same pace, a weekly increase will see you adding stress (on top of the consistency stress above).
3, running 35 miles a week now vs say 25 in old OS (with more intensity) is 10 more miles a week...for 14 weeks that 140 miles..given most of you won't run 1400 miles in a year, we just snuck in a 10% increase in your running volume...and safely.
4, not running fast now gives you room to run fast later, where it will have more impact.
I can keep going...there are times when these runs will feel easy..and times when they won't...and the paces won't be that different. Feel free to "negative split" the back 1/3 of these runs at Z2 effort...but don't mistake a single data point for what we are trying to achieve across the season.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_CYkX_CIWHxNHBFVlN3RkkzLTA
Your run work is epic...but most important, it's epically appropriate as compared to what you've done. Just keep it steady and give yourself one light week of running (20 miles?) before diving into the OS. If we can get that run dialed in you are going to be a monster...
HNY!
As I enter the final 13 weeks into IM Wisconsin wanted to touch base and ask about scheduling days off. My goal for this build is to run as close to 40m/w as possible with most of the mileage at TRP. I'll add some speed miles when I feel like I can... But speed work won't trump consistency. In the past I've only been able to handle the Saturday bikes and had to drop far too many Sunday ABP rides. This build I plan to leave out the 95/100 % efforts in favor of pushing up my 4-5 hour power. I plan to do more sets in the 80-85% range and prioritize getting in that Sunday ride. I think these hacks will help... Opinion?
Im using TP to track fitness. In the past I've had a difficult time scheduling needed days off and find I just wait until it was too late. I'd entered the overtrained state where it takes a week or two to get back on track. Which parameter should I focus on to make the decision... Fatigue or form and at what number should I make the call? For example... I had a good bike weekend and pushed form to -41.9... My runs on mon-tues have been flat with tired legs and no speed. As for ATL... I think that's determinate on how good my fitness is... So it's not as easy to figure a number to pull the plug... Help...
Great to see you back on Strava too... Hope that hip heals up soon and we get to keep chasing your standard!
I like your strategy. Particularly how you are basing your next steps off of lessons you have already learned. The 85% work is nothing like throwing in the towel. It is legit. I think you will still find the fitness gains, however remember we want to place the emphasis on a strong finish to every bike ride. As long as you are able to get in the other Sunday workouts I think you should be good.
As for where to draw the line with fatigue, it is 100% personal. If you found the breaking point before taken note of it because that will be the place we need to be super vigilant the next time around. I personally like to have one swing day a week where it's really just swim only. For me it's my Sunday, because I can do my Saturday long ride on Friday. I wake up that morning and if I feel good I swim and if I don't I just take the day because I know the rest of my week will be stronger because of it. That's a far more anecdotal approach but you should be able to use her data to make the same decision
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Remember that it's a moving target as well. Early in the season you'll feel it more at lower numbers. As your fitness develops and evolves will get stronger and you'll be able to handle more of a load. The key is that you take the rest when you need it as you are thinking and not waiting until it's too late because getting overly tired and losing the training time is the real killer.
Even if you have to play the guessing game, I'd rather you hedge your bets on the safe side. Race day favors the rested.
I'm racing Wisconsin next week and then Louisville 4 weeks later. My plan is to use LOU as a hedge against a screw up at MOO. If all goes well at MOO I'll take it down a notch at LOU... But plot me a course to be able to put up a decent showing at race two. I know our standard IM recover... Couple days off...then swim easy...week two...swim sets with easy spin bike... Three... Bike sets with easy run... But got any other tricks?
Thanks
The family motto is number one first, then number two.
Seriously though, I have found that it gives people a psychological "out" when rubber meets the road...when things get tough, a tiny part of your brain starts rationalizing against the pain you feel and the next chance you have (future) vs pain you feel (present).
Besides, the plan Alternative Coach P comes up with isn't worth shit....because there are just too many things that can happen in your race..how much you run...dehydration...etc.
So mentally prepare like this is your final call...the full monty...all in...and then we revisit.
Hope you understand!
~ Coach P
Post the link to your RR (with lessons learned) and any strava stuff I can view to get that dialed in. That will help me start off...
For now this week is 100% recovery. Maybe a short swim, but that's it. Plenty of sleep and walking about...bonus if you can get in a massage!