Like many others just getting over being sick for a week or so. Test was tough as normal. V02 beat the legs pretty good but ended up with a 266. The 20 @ FTP was consistent and came out to a 225 FTP, but a bit lower then the 2x20 a couple weeks ago that came out to a 235 FTP. Think I'll split the difference and call 230 the starting point for this OS.
@Becky: Great increase in your HR over the 40 min! That's what i would focus on... speed and distance a distant second. When I was first learning to ride fast, we didn't have all these instruments. Far fewer muscles involved in biking than running, and you don't have to hold your breath as when swimming. That threw my PE way-off. Since the legs are doing the lions share of work, they have to work very hard to get your very fit running-heart going. Once you get into the structured intervals and gain experience with your HR, you'll start to love seeing the numbers go up, up, up!
Thanks for the feedback, John! I'm flying blind so appreciate it. I am a numbers person, so look forward to seeing the improvement!
The start of OS 2015 is going to be interesting for me. I had to test with heart rate and not power. After the test didn't feel like I rode very hard compared to power.hoping my bike will be back in 3 weeks just in time to retest with power. Here we go!
Hey everyone. Did my bike test. 3rd one I've done since getting over my illness and even though the numbers aren't where I want them yet (that's what we're here for right? ) I'm happy with the progression. I've gotten a lot stronger in the past 2 months. Here's the numbers
I started my "OS" (actually, the Get Faster plan) in mid December, on a CompuTrainer via Trainer Road with a PowerTap hub and Joule recording my FTP then @ 212 (205 on the CT. This was just fine, as it was how ended my season at IM AZ. Then the CT started going on the fritz, and I got a KICKR. Still recording on the Joule, but now via the Kickr and TR. So comparisons are probably invalid, but my "new" FTP today 237.5, for a w/kg of 3.6. Highest I've seen since, oh, 2009
I know this is at least an improvement over the past 4 weeks, as my avg HR for the first effort was 146, now it's 138, and I felt just as exhausted after each of them. So I am more fit, no matter what my "real" FTP is. I have felt *really* good in the last 4 week training block, better than any OS in the past five years. Simply having a new machine may be part of that, but I am also emulating the local NFL team, the Seahawks. Their coach is constantly preaching: "Every practice, every game, is a championship opportunity, a chance to compete" Since my goal this year is to nail my race in Kona come October, I need a new mindset to get me there. I am approaching each and every workout as a chance to swim, bike, or run as if it is a championship competition. Not kill myself each and every time, but nail perfectly the purpose of the workout in terms of hitting my times/paces/power per my tests, not slow down during or between intervals, emphasize very specific technique during swim, bike and run, etc. Raising the level of my mindfulness, so that come race day, it will be second nature, nothing special, simply another championship opportunity, one of 550 I will have this year.
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I am in week 3 of Get Faster and my 2x20 this morning was a mess My target watts are right in a cadence gap on my trainer, I can either go 93rpm or 80rpm but I feel most comfortable at around 87. Last week I did the high cadence and today the low. I did much better last week with the high. My heart rate was low but it still felt like a tough effort probably because I was just grinding away. I also slept terribly last night. I hit the first 20' but just wasn't feeling the second one. I am going to ride outside on Thursday to get some mojo back.
@ Al - that post suggests that we may see an Al T that we haven't seen in a while. I've been around for a few years and it didn't take long to figure out why you rank WSM. I've always been impressed with your methodical approach, strategic tactics, and ninja execution. BUT, this post has an edge to it. Sure, could be b/c you're still on a victory high from that great test. Whatever....bring it, Doc! Sharpen the blades...there's business to be done in October!
@ Peter - we all know that this thing ebbs and flows. Work hard. Recover. Repeat. Sending you some mojo for the Thurs ride!
Since I tested early, I am doing Week 2 this week so I did the 3 x 6' Z4 tonight. Used Sufferfest Local Hero video which happens to have 3 x6' intervals. Hit all 3 at 1.00IF. No brick run tonight though.
Test Night!! As expected after a 2014 filled with nagging injury and some time off have some work to do. But that is what the OutSeason is for.....time to grind!
Tested for the first time yesterday, my rest days are M and W...didn't quite know what to expect. I am using heart rate for now and avg 168 over 40 min at 17.3 mph and cadence 84 rpm. I am thinking maybe getting a power meter would be helpful...thoughts on doing that in the most cost effective way? Is it truly a lot better than heart rate?
@ Sarah- Power is great! It is more "true" than heart rate. I know there are lots of options when it comes to power, each with pros/cons. You might want to search the "Gear" forum for previous conversations on power options and if you can't find anything, start your own topic or check out this. It is pretty comprehensive:
N1- I love my Powertap and just bought another one so I could have power on my road bike too. If you are considering that, reach out to Coach Rich and he might be able to get a deal via Wheelbuilder.
Posted By <a href='http://members.endurancenation.us/ActivityFeed/tabid/61/userid/4545/Default.aspx' class='af-profile-link'>Sarah McDonough</a> on 07 Jan 2015 06:35 AM Tested for the first time yesterday, my rest days are M and W...didn't quite know what to expect. I am using heart rate for now and avg 168 over 40 min at 17.3 mph and cadence 84 rpm. I am thinking maybe getting a power meter would be helpful...thoughts on doing that in the most cost effective way? Is it truly a lot better than heart rate?
Posted By <a href='http://members.endurancenation.us/ActivityFeed/tabid/61/userid/4545/Default.aspx' class='af-profile-link'>Sarah McDonough</a> on 07 Jan 2015 06:35 AM Tested for the first time yesterday, my rest days are M and W...didn't quite know what to expect. I am using heart rate for now and avg 168 over 40 min at 17.3 mph and cadence 84 rpm. I am thinking maybe getting a power meter would be helpful...thoughts on doing that in the most cost effective way? Is it truly a lot better than heart rate?
And this page is filled with knowledge and EN power resources...
ok no FTP test for me, but read on: during this last season, I had an FTP peak of 247 (lifetime high) prior to IMMT. I know it drifted downwards between there and IMAZ and swagged an FTP of 238 for power targets in IMAZ. I didnt touch the bike between IMAZ (Nov 16) & Dec 12)
I had rotator Cuff Surgery on Dec 10. A week later I started getting on the trainer to do essentially an OS type build, so I am in my 5th of the 7 Week progression. I started my first WKO at trying to figure out a good FTP number and by the end of the week settled in on 232. I have been nailing every workout in the progression at .99-1.02 IF, and anything above 1.0 is a solid effort with nothing else left in the tank.
Since Dec 23 I have been battling a flu like bug. On 12/23 & 24 it was low grade fever & body aches, and just plain tired. since then that has kicked in 1-3 days per week, so i have been working with rest days to try and get that out.
last week I did a solid 2x15 & 3x10 WKO combined with some runs of up to 12 miles (complete with left arm in sling!). I have had 4 days of rest and got on bike this AM to do a 2x15 set and found the first set incredibly hard and just dropped out of the 2nd interval after 3.5 minutes... ugghhh, not happy. will take a shot at 3x12 on Friday.
@ Matt Aronson - try a few workouts at the FTP you believe you are at, it will quickly become apparent if you SWAGGED it right or not, your a smart & analytical guy..
ok. Showing up a few days late to the party. Tested this morning indoors on road bike b/c tri bike is on its way to Calfee to repair a frame crack. This Test Is Tough. 5mi Vo2 NP 270w Avg hr 160, max 172 20min FTP 227w Avg hr 159, max 167 So we will go with .95 of 227 = 216 = exactly where I was at last test on my tri bike. Which means I really dropped a bit b/c I can usually put out more power on my road bike. But, the starting point is way less relevant than the end point. This test was the cover charge to get it. Now, lets party!
After IMMD in September, I had no desire to get back on a bike. Clearly, I did, eventually, and even began to enjoy it. I even had started FTP intervals before this week, with just a guess as to my FTP. But I was very close. Tested Monday VO2: 212 FTP 176 I'll take it. Of course this is on my road bike on an indoor trainer. I still have no desire to get in aero position. I need warm weather for that.
@Michelle-glad to see you back in a forum I am on!! How is the swimming?
@Scott-I suffered from the same GI bug at same time-must have caught it the week before when I was in NYC. Awesome that you bounced back so quickly from surgery-true commitment!
@Sarah - I trained by HR during last year's NOS, on a Mt bike no less. I felt that I was making progress, which was confirmed by others in the forum. The problem is that I couldn't quantify it or solidly "prove" the amount of improvement achieved. Exiting the NOS, I purchased a tri-bike and a power meter. Training was a night and day difference. Instead of a foggy notion of the amount of work I was producing (HR), I now had an accurate number to train by.
Consistency is another issue that a power meter addresses. HR being a lagging and variable indicator, I found that I didn't even realize how inconsistent my rides were. I would ride harder at the beginning of an interval to get my HR in the designated zone, and then work to maintain it. My effort would rise and fall when working to maintain a HR range. This effort would change from day to day based on health, amount of sleep, time between workouts, etc.
The power meter provides you an instant measurement of work output. It's accuracy isn't affected by any of the physiological changes going on with you at the time. I also found it psychologically easier to train with a PM. It changed my thinking from an internal, "Man, now I've got work myself up to a painful 163 HR." With a PM, I found my focus more external, in working to hitting an "external" watt number that I know I have done on a previous w/o. The PM also provides a metric of how consistent you rode.
At the end of the day, a PM is an$800-$1,400"luxury". It's not a piece of equipment that will make your bike faster. It will, however, make you train harder, smarter and more consistent, which will make you faster/stronger. Just my one off experience.
@Phil: Thanks for pointing out the importance of power meters. I am also considering buying one, since so far I only have more or less accurate power from my indoor rear wheel brake.
So, there is one question spinning around my head considering power meters: One leg or two legs? I.e. a meter that counts the overall power of both legs or a meter that counts each leg individually? The second choice would be an additional 600-700 bucks. My question: is it worth it?
Slow to report in! I did my bike test yesterday afternoon.
My last test at home on my own was almost 2 years ago and I struggled to get through it....Back in October I joined an 8 week class to get me back on the trainer and test again. Then I promptly took most of dec off...for shame...but thankfully the times I did actually ride I must have done the 'right' work as I increased by FTP by 2 watts! I will take it - a Gain is a gain.... especially on my own.
I'm wondering if there might be a separate thread for those who don't use a power meter? I don't get the FTP. I thought at first it stood for Full Training Plan.
Call me old school but I don't have or ever have had a tri bike. Did pretty darn well as an age grouper in the day and even in my 40's. I don't plan on investing in one for this IM. I do though have aerobars - I'm not that basic! I'm going to get a fit again though since in my IM in 2012, training then racing in the aero position was very uncomfortable so I did so minimally and I know that affected my time and effort.
Not a separate thread, but a separate test. Do the Heart Rate test. It's in the weekly plan right under the directions for the FTP test. You don't have to have a power meter to get results from EN. You see alot of them around here, don't let that isolate you.
Find the HR test, do the HR test, and set the zones based on the HR test.
Your workouts will then have intervals based on gunning for those zones.
Should be pretty smooth with the z4 longer intervals. The shorter z5 intervals will be a little trickier since it takes a minute or two for HR to drift up. Those might be the place for using RPE for the short 'very hard' intervals.
About 3 weeks ago did the CTS 3x8" test and had poor results.....tried to make sure I was rested and hydrated for this one....wanted to at least get #s at where I was last JAN pre OS. The CTS test showed about 190w FTP ... I wanted 200 at least from a 220w 20min TT.
5": 280w AVE HR 157climbing to 169 felt hard but maybe a little held back.
20" Started a little conservative in 220-230w range...trending up slightly till a last 5 min building to 305w (last 5" ave 266w)
Overall AVE 238w HR 162; Last 15" 245w HR 170
A conservative look would be the SS min 4-16 =240W HR 165
RPE suggests a change in Respiration at HR 165
Sooooo. 240=228FTP, 245=232FTP ....I like round numbers so.... 230
Obviously the VO2 was under cooked....will likely use 300.....
Happy to see >190w for FTP!! I am kinda scared to se my EN zones now
...Started a little conservative in 220-230w range...trending up slightly till a last 5 min building to 305w (last 5" ave 266w)
Overall AVE 238w HR 162; Last 15" 245w HR 170
A conservative look would be the SS min 4-16 =240W HR 165
RPE suggests a change in Respiration at HR 165
Sooooo. 240=228FTP, 245=232FTP ....I like round numbers so.... 230
...
Speaking as one who has always regretted any time I fudged/SWAGED my FTP from a test - why aren't you using 238 x 0.95 = 226 as your FTP? The 5/20 test for FTP uses the average watts for the entire 20 minute portion, discounted by 5%, to determine FTP. You can use the higher number, sure, but I've found it more fun and motivating to start the OS with a lower number and marvel at how much I improve, rather than struggle right out of the gate.
Comments
Dude, you are a masochist! I like that.
Like many others just getting over being sick for a week or so. Test was tough as normal. V02 beat the legs pretty good but ended up with a 266. The 20 @ FTP was consistent and came out to a 225 FTP, but a bit lower then the 2x20 a couple weeks ago that came out to a 235 FTP. Think I'll split the difference and call 230 the starting point for this OS.
1) Bring the Bucket. NOW
and
2) Nevermind. Waterbottle works I guess.
@stark You can go ahead and say it, I got big thighs... The bike is the only time that helps...
Thanks for the feedback, John! I'm flying blind so appreciate it. I am a numbers person, so look forward to seeing the improvement!
The start of OS 2015 is going to be interesting for me. I had to test with heart rate and not power. After the test didn't feel like I rode very hard compared to power.hoping my bike will be back in 3 weeks just in time to retest with power. Here we go!
Ave Heart 139
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tqIFfMSUSXGhUYCEwhnrKzg/edit?pli=1
VO2 test 5' @196W
NP 20' test @159W
FTP @151W
I started my "OS" (actually, the Get Faster plan) in mid December, on a CompuTrainer via Trainer Road with a PowerTap hub and Joule recording my FTP then @ 212 (205 on the CT. This was just fine, as it was how ended my season at IM AZ. Then the CT started going on the fritz, and I got a KICKR. Still recording on the Joule, but now via the Kickr and TR. So comparisons are probably invalid, but my "new" FTP today 237.5, for a w/kg of 3.6. Highest I've seen since, oh, 2009
I know this is at least an improvement over the past 4 weeks, as my avg HR for the first effort was 146, now it's 138, and I felt just as exhausted after each of them. So I am more fit, no matter what my "real" FTP is. I have felt *really* good in the last 4 week training block, better than any OS in the past five years. Simply having a new machine may be part of that, but I am also emulating the local NFL team, the Seahawks. Their coach is constantly preaching: "Every practice, every game, is a championship opportunity, a chance to compete" Since my goal this year is to nail my race in Kona come October, I need a new mindset to get me there. I am approaching each and every workout as a chance to swim, bike, or run as if it is a championship competition. Not kill myself each and every time, but nail perfectly the purpose of the workout in terms of hitting my times/paces/power per my tests, not slow down during or between intervals, emphasize very specific technique during swim, bike and run, etc. Raising the level of my mindfulness, so that come race day, it will be second nature, nothing special, simply another championship opportunity, one of 550 I will have this year.
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I am in week 3 of Get Faster and my 2x20 this morning was a mess
@ Peter - we all know that this thing ebbs and flows. Work hard. Recover. Repeat. Sending you some mojo for the Thurs ride!
Test Night!! As expected after a 2014 filled with nagging injury and some time off have some work to do. But that is what the OutSeason is for.....time to grind!
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews/power-meters
N1- I love my Powertap and just bought another one so I could have power on my road bike too. If you are considering that, reach out to Coach Rich and he might be able to get a deal via Wheelbuilder.
Good luck!
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Before+you+buy+a+powermeter
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=EN+Power+Training+Resources
during this last season, I had an FTP peak of 247 (lifetime high) prior to IMMT. I know it drifted downwards between there and IMAZ and swagged an FTP of 238 for power targets in IMAZ. I didnt touch the bike between IMAZ (Nov 16) & Dec 12)
I had rotator Cuff Surgery on Dec 10. A week later I started getting on the trainer to do essentially an OS type build, so I am in my 5th of the 7 Week progression. I started my first WKO at trying to figure out a good FTP number and by the end of the week settled in on 232. I have been nailing every workout in the progression at .99-1.02 IF, and anything above 1.0 is a solid effort with nothing else left in the tank.
Since Dec 23 I have been battling a flu like bug. On 12/23 & 24 it was low grade fever & body aches, and just plain tired. since then that has kicked in 1-3 days per week, so i have been working with rest days to try and get that out.
last week I did a solid 2x15 & 3x10 WKO combined with some runs of up to 12 miles (complete with left arm in sling!). I have had 4 days of rest and got on bike this AM to do a 2x15 set and found the first set incredibly hard and just dropped out of the 2nd interval after 3.5 minutes... ugghhh, not happy. will take a shot at 3x12 on Friday.
@ Matt Aronson - try a few workouts at the FTP you believe you are at, it will quickly become apparent if you SWAGGED it right or not, your a smart & analytical guy..
This
Test
Is
Tough.
5mi Vo2 NP 270w Avg hr 160, max 172
20min FTP 227w Avg hr 159, max 167
So we will go with .95 of 227 = 216 = exactly where I was at last test on my tri bike. Which means I really dropped a bit b/c I can usually put out more power on my road bike. But, the starting point is way less relevant than the end point. This test was the cover charge to get it. Now, lets party!
Tested Monday
VO2: 212
FTP 176
I'll take it. Of course this is on my road bike on an indoor trainer. I still have no desire to get in aero position. I need warm weather for that.
@Scott-I suffered from the same GI bug at same time-must have caught it the week before when I was in NYC. Awesome that you bounced back so quickly from surgery-true commitment!
@Sarah-yes power is great!! Go for it
Consistency is another issue that a power meter addresses. HR being a lagging and variable indicator, I found that I didn't even realize how inconsistent my rides were. I would ride harder at the beginning of an interval to get my HR in the designated zone, and then work to maintain it. My effort would rise and fall when working to maintain a HR range. This effort would change from day to day based on health, amount of sleep, time between workouts, etc.
The power meter provides you an instant measurement of work output. It's accuracy isn't affected by any of the physiological changes going on with you at the time. I also found it psychologically easier to train with a PM. It changed my thinking from an internal, "Man, now I've got work myself up to a painful 163 HR." With a PM, I found my focus more external, in working to hitting an "external" watt number that I know I have done on a previous w/o. The PM also provides a metric of how consistent you rode.
At the end of the day, a PM is an$800-$1,400"luxury". It's not a piece of equipment that will make your bike faster. It will, however, make you train harder, smarter and more consistent, which will make you faster/stronger. Just my one off experience.
@Phil: Thanks for pointing out the importance of power meters. I am also considering buying one, since so far I only have more or less accurate power from my indoor rear wheel brake.
So, there is one question spinning around my head considering power meters: One leg or two legs? I.e. a meter that counts the overall power of both legs or a meter that counts each leg individually? The second choice would be an additional 600-700 bucks. My question: is it worth it?
Thanks for all your replies in advance.
You should probably move these questions and input to the Gear forum where you're more likely to get lots more input than here. Thanks!
My last test at home on my own was almost 2 years ago and I struggled to get through it....Back in October I joined an 8 week class to get me back on the trainer and test again. Then I promptly took most of dec off...for shame...but thankfully the times I did actually ride I must have done the 'right' work as I increased by FTP by 2 watts! I will take it - a Gain is a gain.... especially on my own.
Adjusted FTP = 187
Hope to be in the 200 club again...soon
I'm wondering if there might be a separate thread for those who don't use a power meter? I don't get the FTP. I thought at first it stood for Full Training Plan.
Call me old school but I don't have or ever have had a tri bike. Did pretty darn well as an age grouper in the day and even in my 40's. I don't plan on investing in one for this IM. I do though have aerobars - I'm not that basic! I'm going to get a fit again though since in my IM in 2012, training then racing in the aero position was very uncomfortable so I did so minimally and I know that affected my time and effort.
Give it hell, JOS'ers!
Not a separate thread, but a separate test. Do the Heart Rate test. It's in the weekly plan right under the directions for the FTP test. You don't have to have a power meter to get results from EN. You see alot of them around here, don't let that isolate you.
Find the HR test, do the HR test, and set the zones based on the HR test.
Your workouts will then have intervals based on gunning for those zones.
Should be pretty smooth with the z4 longer intervals. The shorter z5 intervals will be a little trickier since it takes a minute or two for HR to drift up. Those might be the place for using RPE for the short 'very hard' intervals.
Make sense?
Did my FTP Test today.
About 3 weeks ago did the CTS 3x8" test and had poor results.....tried to make sure I was rested and hydrated for this one....wanted to at least get #s at where I was last JAN pre OS. The CTS test showed about 190w FTP ... I wanted 200 at least from a 220w 20min TT.
5": 280w AVE HR 157climbing to 169 felt hard but maybe a little held back.
20" Started a little conservative in 220-230w range...trending up slightly till a last 5 min building to 305w (last 5" ave 266w)
Overall AVE 238w HR 162; Last 15" 245w HR 170
A conservative look would be the SS min 4-16 =240W HR 165
RPE suggests a change in Respiration at HR 165
Sooooo. 240=228FTP, 245=232FTP ....I like round numbers so.... 230
Obviously the VO2 was under cooked....will likely use 300.....
Happy to see >190w for FTP!! I am kinda scared to se my EN zones now
Bring on the pain!
Speaking as one who has always regretted any time I fudged/SWAGED my FTP from a test - why aren't you using 238 x 0.95 = 226 as your FTP? The 5/20 test for FTP uses the average watts for the entire 20 minute portion, discounted by 5%, to determine FTP. You can use the higher number, sure, but I've found it more fun and motivating to start the OS with a lower number and marvel at how much I improve, rather than struggle right out of the gate.