Flip Turns - I was pretty fast on open turns but after 2 1/2 years of getting waxed by folks doing flip turns, I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't too old to learn something new. I started practicing a 5 step series I found on you tube at the end of each practice. Eventually, I put a few flip turns into my warm-up and cool down, and later, I started to bring them into my main sets. It took me 6 months to really master the turn but it was worth it. It makes the training much more approximate to a continuous swim...and I have the satisfaction of appearing to have come from a swim background.
Compression socks - there is nothing that says 'tri-geek' more than these. At least the black ones are more stylish... but the white ones...OMG! Look for the Mark Allen ad in Triathelete Mag with the guy in a one piece tri-suit and white compression socks with orange CEP logo. He could be the poster child for silly looking triathlete. However, I admit that I'm going to buy a pair of the black calf-sleeves for my flight to IMCDA and post race recovery. Plus I can wear them around the expo like all the other preening tri-geeks who apparently don't own a pair of jeans and a T-shirt to wear in casual environments. But I won't wear them on the run itself until Kenyans start winning the Boston and NYC marathons in them...without being paid to do so.
Running - Speaking as a runner with a triathlon problem, I would agree with Matt Ancona that runners don't mind training with triathletes. The more the merrier. The only thing that looks silly to me is when triathletes show up at road races and choose to wear tri-tops and tri-shorts instead of a running singlet and shorts. What's that all about?
I was on a Saturday ride once with some friends, came to a corner and one of our other triathlete friends was out for a run...in compressions socks...like the naked color ones that he may stolen from grandma while she was sleeping. He has a legit medical reason for wearing them but we absolutely lit him up, to the entertainment of the cars at the light, before it turned green
Shorts, white sneaks--and BLACK socks!!!!! I think I'm about to faint! That's beyond tri geek into full on grampy-geek. Must not ever wear black socks of any kind with shorts. Oh no, no, no, no, no. I need my EN chicas to back me up on this one. There is a code about such things.
I come home from work, there are 68 emails from EN, and HALF of them are in this ..... topic. What is it about swimming pools that brings out the most ... curious ... posts from triathletes? I imagine Rich wishes he had hair so he could pull it out.
Absolutely! I've told my wife that if she catches me wearing shorts, dress shoes and black socks then it's time to check me into the nursing home. On the other hand, I have a pair of black socks and black XC race shoes I use for a particularly dirty adventure run they have in Tampa. If you start with white shoes and white socks, they will look black, or at least gray at the end.
Yes, there must be a code for wearing compression socks. The last time I was out, I matched a gray pair with a pink mini skirt and a tube top.You should have seen the stares I was getting.
For the record, people, you gotta know I'm razzin' Paul.
As a bit of a joke I wore black compression socks and my slowtwitch jersey at AZ last year. Funny part was that I did not look out of place at all and no one except for Murpy'sLaw got the joke. Also found it very uncomfortable to run/ride in compression socks. They are great at the office or on a plane after a long run though.
As a crazy old roomate of mine used to say...sometimes ya gotta let the freak flag fly!
I think I loose at least 1 to 2 seconds per turn. I took a half hour class on flip turns, but the extra oxygen I needed was killing me. My plan this summer is to just start incorporating them. I like the ideas above to start with warm up / cool down and then slowly build up.
I'm sure I could knock of 10 seconds per hundred with better technique
@ Michael Cook- move center before you flip. Those ahead of you should be moving to the lane line anyway. I always used to push off into the oncoming swimmers until someone clued me in about the slight move to center.
@Mike G- What I got from your post about breathing fears approaching the wall- is that you are not a bilateral breather. You mentioned 4 stroke and 2 stroke. Breath every 3rd stroke and this will also help. As a teenager I forced myself to learn how to breathe bilaterally. I nearly drowned until I figured out that I had to roll my body and not just turn my head. Flip turns- learned these in middle school gym class and high school swim team. I used to get disoriented when I first started learning/ doing flip turns, so I had to do them with my eyes closed. But I also tended to push off heading to the bottom on occasion. Makes the next breath really tough to get. It took lots of repetition and forcing myself to keep my eyes open. I also practice holding my breath or letting it out much slower for those times when someone might push me under in a race.
@Michele, guilty! I tried and tried, but neve got anywhere with it in the past, what with my terrible balance in the water. Having found my balance this spring, I think I will give it another go. Thanks for the reminder!
Mike - go to youtube and search for "Freestyle Flip Turn - Step 1". There are 5 separate videos in the progression. That's what I used to teach myself. And it was more effective than all the advice I was getting from everyone else.
I'm inspired, haus! I rock the breaststroke turn, but am going to add flip turns to my warm-up at tonight's swim. Any advice for not getting water up your nose while doing these? That seems to be my biggest problem.
I'm inspired, haus! I rock the breaststroke turn, but am going to add flip turns to my warm-up at tonight's swim. Any advice for not getting water up your nose while doing these? That seems to be my biggest problem.
I'm inspired, haus! I rock the breaststroke turn, but am going to add flip turns to my warm-up at tonight's swim. Any advice for not getting water up your nose while doing these? That seems to be my biggest problem.
I'm coming late to this post so I didn't read the first 2 pages but I'll chime in here somewhat ignorantly. I didin't swim in highschool and learned as an adult. I remember my first year of learning flip turns: chlorinated water up the nose (there's no sensation like it--some call it a method of alien interrogation), spinning into disoriented oblivion, pushing off into the floor, missing the wall, hitting my heels on the coping, etc. With most swimmers who have clear recollections of learning they all talk about the slow process of learning flip turns being brutal tortue. Personally at some point in the novice days, I just committed to do all flip turns from a certain point in time and never looked back. The first few weeks to months were rough and seemed to make me more tired and fatigued but eventually it all came together: a dolphin kick followed by a summersalt, exhaling out of the nose during the summersalt, planting the feet on the black cross, followed by a push and glide off the wall.
One trick I learned to help with breathing is getting in a good breath before the fllp turn and then again immediately upon surfacing after the glide. When I surface I automatically turn on my non-dominate breathing side and take a breath. Sometimes I'll even breath every right stroke after a turn (2 to 3 times) when I'm super winded and oxygen deprived before I go back into a bilateral breathing mode.
I am lucky/unlucky.... I have to wear a noseplug anyways so its not a problem for me! If i dont have a nose plug I cant breath by lunch. MY allergies and the chlorine dont play nice in my nose!
Mike - go to youtube and search for "Freestyle Flip Turn - Step 1". There are 5 separate videos in the progression. That's what I used to teach myself. And it was more effective than all the advice I was getting from everyone else.
Just watched Steps 1-3 and can see how this could really help me! I know I don't do the right and use too much energy in the process, but I haven't been able to fix them. This is gonna help- I can tell.. Thanks! I'm going back to practicing my flip turns!
As geeky triathletes, we make sure we breathe before we initiate the turn. Real swimmers look at the "T" on the pool floor and get their last breath around that time, flip, push off and take at least 1 stroke before breathing again. Our Master's coach used to make us do a drill where we could breathe as much as we wanted mid pool but once we hit the red zone (where the lane markers turn a solid color at the flags- ours was red) then no breathing again until you went in flipped, pushed off and stroked til you were out of the red zone. It was killer and we had to do it for a 500 total. I had to complete the 500 3x before I got it perfect. Some people spent the entire session (1.5 hrs) on it and never got it right.
But back to "perfecting" flip turns. It takes a long time, you will splash other people, you will push off in the wrong direction, you'll get water up your nose, etc. etc. But for making the session go by faster, it's worth it. And if you like to play in the water, then it's fun. But if you find swimming to be a chore, you may never enjoy or perfect the flip turn. Just my $.02
I'm inspired, haus! I rock the breaststroke turn, but am going to add flip turns to my warm-up at tonight's swim. Any advice for not getting water up your nose while doing these? That seems to be my biggest problem.
exhale out your nose.
Cool. I'll try that.
Werd. Alternatively, I swam with a girl in college who would seal off her nose with her upper lip, like a friggin' Jacque Cousteau video
I'm inspired, haus! I rock the breaststroke turn, but am going to add flip turns to my warm-up at tonight's swim. Any advice for not getting water up your nose while doing these? That seems to be my biggest problem.
exhale out your nose.
Cool. I'll try that.
Werd. Alternatively, I swam with a girl in college who would seal off her nose with her upper lip, like a friggin' Jacque Cousteau video
FYI- those videos are really helpful. I forced myself to do flip turns in the deep end and tried to remember and practice what they talked about in the vids. After my swim I practiced a few flip turns in the shallow end using the "lesson #3" drills and it REALLY helped. I've been trying too hard to twist and flip all at the same time- this makes a lot more sense.
thanks for the tips... I will check out the youtube vid - I could never do flip turns well... as a kid on swimteam I would rock it for 25m, then lose the race in the turn - very annoying (good thing I was one of the few good butterfliers... and that isn't a flip turn).
I had an uber swimmer friend watch me attempt a flip and apparently I twist as I flip - she had me try to do a normal somersault in the middle of the pool and even then I lead with a shoulder and twist. Since then I stopped trying to do them since I don't flip in a race, but per this thread I think I should try to work them back in.
Ok, had to post an update. After my last test and this thread, I taught myself to flip turn (same video recommended in the thread, very good). I got very comfortable with the turns, and have also had some significant progress feeling stronger with my catch in the water. I did another T test today.
Last month: 17:04 Today: 16:06
Some of that was fitness (I'd barely swam prior to the last test), and some was the flip turn. If I had to guess, I'd say it was about half fitness, half flip turns. Either way, felt very cool!
Nice work Mike!!! Congratulations! I've been working on the flip turns since watching those videos too- it's getting easier but I still have some work to do before it becomes "second nature".
Comments
Compression socks - there is nothing that says 'tri-geek' more than these. At least the black ones are more stylish... but the white ones...OMG! Look for the Mark Allen ad in Triathelete Mag with the guy in a one piece tri-suit and white compression socks with orange CEP logo. He could be the poster child for silly looking triathlete. However, I admit that I'm going to buy a pair of the black calf-sleeves for my flight to IMCDA and post race recovery. Plus I can wear them around the expo like all the other preening tri-geeks who apparently don't own a pair of jeans and a T-shirt to wear in casual environments.
Running - Speaking as a runner with a triathlon problem, I would agree with Matt Ancona that runners don't mind training with triathletes. The more the merrier. The only thing that looks silly to me is when triathletes show up at road races and choose to wear tri-tops and tri-shorts instead of a running singlet and shorts. What's that all about?
I was on a Saturday ride once with some friends, came to a corner and one of our other triathlete friends was out for a run...in compressions socks...like the naked color ones that he may stolen from grandma while she was sleeping. He has a legit medical reason for wearing them but we absolutely lit him up, to the entertainment of the cars at the light, before it turned green
Shorts, white sneaks--and BLACK socks!!!!! I think I'm about to faint! That's beyond tri geek into full on grampy-geek. Must not ever wear black socks of any kind with shorts. Oh no, no, no, no, no. I need my EN chicas to back me up on this one.
There is a code about such things.
I come home from work, there are 68 emails from EN, and HALF of them are in this ..... topic. What is it about swimming pools that brings out the most ... curious ... posts from triathletes? I imagine Rich wishes he had hair so he could pull it out.
Absolutely! I've told my wife that if she catches me wearing shorts, dress shoes and black socks then it's time to check me into the nursing home. On the other hand, I have a pair of black socks and black XC race shoes I use for a particularly dirty adventure run they have in Tampa. If you start with white shoes and white socks, they will look black, or at least gray at the end.
Yes, there must be a code for wearing compression socks. The last time I was out, I matched a gray pair with a pink mini skirt and a tube top.You should have seen the stares I was getting.
For the record, people, you gotta know I'm razzin' Paul.
As a bit of a joke I wore black compression socks and my slowtwitch jersey at AZ last year. Funny part was that I did not look out of place at all and no one except for Murpy'sLaw got the joke. Also found it very uncomfortable to run/ride in compression socks. They are great at the office or on a plane after a long run though.
As a crazy old roomate of mine used to say...sometimes ya gotta let the freak flag fly!
Chris,
Newtons would have really completed the ensemble.
I think I loose at least 1 to 2 seconds per turn. I took a half hour class on flip turns, but the extra oxygen I needed was killing me. My plan this summer is to just start incorporating them. I like the ideas above to start with warm up / cool down and then slowly build up.
I'm sure I could knock of 10 seconds per hundred with better technique
@Mike G- What I got from your post about breathing fears approaching the wall- is that you are not a bilateral breather. You mentioned 4 stroke and 2 stroke. Breath every 3rd stroke and this will also help. As a teenager I forced myself to learn how to breathe bilaterally. I nearly drowned until I figured out that I had to roll my body and not just turn my head. Flip turns- learned these in middle school gym class and high school swim team. I used to get disoriented when I first started learning/ doing flip turns, so I had to do them with my eyes closed. But I also tended to push off heading to the bottom on occasion. Makes the next breath really tough to get. It took lots of repetition and forcing myself to keep my eyes open. I also practice holding my breath or letting it out much slower for those times when someone might push me under in a race.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9eD...re=related
Check out his feet...unreal
I'm inspired, haus! I rock the breaststroke turn, but am going to add flip turns to my warm-up at tonight's swim. Any advice for not getting water up your nose while doing these? That seems to be my biggest problem.
exhale out your nose.
Cool. I'll try that.
One trick I learned to help with breathing is getting in a good breath before the fllp turn and then again immediately upon surfacing after the glide. When I surface I automatically turn on my non-dominate breathing side and take a breath. Sometimes I'll even breath every right stroke after a turn (2 to 3 times) when I'm super winded and oxygen deprived before I go back into a bilateral breathing mode.
I am lucky/unlucky.... I have to wear a noseplug anyways so its not a problem for me! If i dont have a nose plug I cant breath by lunch. MY allergies and the chlorine dont play nice in my nose!
Just watched Steps 1-3 and can see how this could really help me! I know I don't do the right and use too much energy in the process, but I haven't been able to fix them. This is gonna help- I can tell.. Thanks! I'm going back to practicing my flip turns!
But back to "perfecting" flip turns. It takes a long time, you will splash other people, you will push off in the wrong direction, you'll get water up your nose, etc. etc. But for making the session go by faster, it's worth it. And if you like to play in the water, then it's fun. But if you find swimming to be a chore, you may never enjoy or perfect the flip turn.
Just my $.02
Werd. Alternatively, I swam with a girl in college who would seal off her nose with her upper lip, like a friggin' Jacque Cousteau video
Perhaps this thread should be called "The Cool Points Cost of Doing Open Turns at Masters"
OK- the nose seal girl is just creepy!
FYI- those videos are really helpful. I forced myself to do flip turns in the deep end and tried to remember and practice what they talked about in the vids. After my swim I practiced a few flip turns in the shallow end using the "lesson #3" drills and it REALLY helped. I've been trying too hard to twist and flip all at the same time- this makes a lot more sense.
thanks for the tips... I will check out the youtube vid - I could never do flip turns well... as a kid on swimteam I would rock it for 25m, then lose the race in the turn - very annoying (good thing I was one of the few good butterfliers... and that isn't a flip turn).
I had an uber swimmer friend watch me attempt a flip and apparently I twist as I flip - she had me try to do a normal somersault in the middle of the pool and even then I lead with a shoulder and twist. Since then I stopped trying to do them since I don't flip in a race, but per this thread I think I should try to work them back in.
This was written by my swim coach on the team blog. Nothing that hasn't been said here but thought I'd share anyway.
chicagoblogdolphin.wordpress.com/20...lip-turns/
Last month: 17:04
Today: 16:06
Some of that was fitness (I'd barely swam prior to the last test), and some was the flip turn. If I had to guess, I'd say it was about half fitness, half flip turns. Either way, felt very cool!
Mike