Who's Packing: CCW
Okay, some disclaimers before we begin this thread. This is not a post about the 2nd Ammendment. Its merely a survey.
Out here in Montana, firearms are a part of normal life. It seems to me everyone is packing. Im curious, how many of you guys, who represent a unique group of individuals in society, have a gun or a CCW. Not a hunting rifle or shotgun, but a revolver or handgun.
Some people have even told me they ride with one here. I do not. Any of you? Again, this is not a political debate. Just curious. Thanks!
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I grew up with a rifle/shotgun for hunting, but when I moved to the city didnt need it anymore so dont have it.
357 Magnum. Fully registered & legal so don't go sending AFT over to raid my house! (But no CCW permit, I forgot to mention that point)
I have a lever action .30-30 (think cowboy rifle) that I got from my dad but it's never been fired.
Frankly, we've had some "stuff" happen, occur near my house that have made me think about something for home protection but I'd likely be more a cheap shotgun, pistol grip, hall sweeper kinda guy.
I've also motorcycled solo around the US, camping remotely, etc for weeks at a time, upwards of 80k miles of solo touring, most likely. Never carried a gun, never came close to a situation where a gun would have solved anything. That said, I've been on group dirtbike rides where guys have casually noted that they are carrying a loaded gun in their backpack (as well as pot or beers) and I've noted to not ride with them again.
I've thought about getting something for my solo rides but I can't imagine the hassle or requirements of carrying a weapon on a motorcycle across many state lines. I'm planning a 2-3 day solo bike ride through UT next week after IMSG and have even thought about "how would I carry a 9mm on my bike, if I wanted to?" I'm outside the 10 day waiting period in CA so you're all safe, I won't have a Glock attached to my EN bibs in UT Hwy 12
I also look at the price of a gun and think of better ways to spend my $600...
Fascinating discussion. I hear ya Rich, its funny how often firearms are packed next to alcohol or drugs. I also can understand that 600 dollars dilemma too. Everytime I look at a gun, I think "wow, that could be another race registration...."
@Nemo: AFT? Away From Training?
I've thought about getting Joanne and I a .22LR rifle and .22 target pistol. I like the skill of shooting (and .22 ammo is cheap
), and the Marine Corps has a fantastic marksmanship program. I know how to shoot very well and know how to teach it. I could be a fun hobby to share with her. She enjoys it too...and I enjoy it cuz she sorta listens to me 
. I had her hitting a water bottle at 50m with an unscoped air rifle 
.
Then I see the cost of said toys and think of other ways to spends our money...
Hard to pay to shoot when you've done this:
Or shot/controlled these:
LOL. You could just tow the howitzer behind you on the bike.
Montana is home to a bunch of custom firearm makers, and they have some pretty nice products. Its such a big deal here that the state is currently fighting against federal law regarding oversight. Just down the road from me, there is a place that manufactures custom AR-15 parts. I wonder if I can get an EN branded rifle in .223. I would "work works!" on the barrel.
I also enjoy the target shooting, and 22 is fun. Im especially fond of the Walther P22. I only own a Remington 870 right now, which is fun for trap and genearl hunting, but doesnt beat the joy of accurate rifle/handgun shooting. Im really hoping to combine both endurance and shooting with biathlon this winter. Guess I should learn how to cross country ski in the time being.
I like target shooting too- I actually got pretty good at it when we used to visit the range frequently- but it's been a long time since I've been to a range.
Rich- FYI, Joe often peaks over my shoulder when I'm at the PC and uses whatever I'm looking at as an opportunity to make fun of my tri geekness. Today as he passed by he stopped dead in his tracks and said "Coooooool M198 Howlitzer!!!!". I think EN just earned a cool point with Joe.
"...They say this fish Nemo is a bad mother...
SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
I'm talkin' 'bout NEMO!
THEN WE CAN DIG IT!"
PS: This is what I call a good day at the range:
www.youtube.com/watch
Nemo, tell Joe that if he said "One Ninety Eight" or "One Nine Eight" instead of "One NinER Eight," to just start pushing. He can stop when I get tired...
In artillery we pronounce every number individially (no teens, twenties, etc) and the nine is niner, something about nine being the German for no...all I know is if you (officer, enlisted, anyone) screwed up, you had to instantly drop and give Chesty his three zero
.
Greg, that's a cute toy.
Howitzer in direct fire mode (ie, you can see what you're shooting at you aim by sighting down the bore) Hint: if you are in direct fire mode in combat you are having a very, very bad day...
As for riding with guns, my DH used to keep his 9mm in a bento box while riding. What changed his mind against that was doing "Stress Tests" at work which was shooting a stationary target after doing a bunch of jumping jacks and sit-ups (basically getting your HR into zone 3 and above). The accuracy with the elevated HR and the short barrelled handgun was terrible. So now we both carry pepper spray which works to deter a human and a canine assailant. Cuz if a doggie is going to bite you while you are on your bike are you really going to shoot it? I couldn't do that. If the human assailant is armed (with a gun), then I've been instructed by DH to spray if I can and ride away in a serpentine/zigzag fashion to make myself a more difficult target to shoot.
Great guys. It really is fascinating to see how much of a common topic this is for us. I guess for some reason I didnt expect that. Anyhow, I think Im going to make the leap and get something handy. Being in this area, in a job that often leaves me as the bearer of very bad news (A lot of my phone calls start with "Hi, Im Dr. Van and Im calling to discuss your recent urine drug test.."), and with a unique name, better to be safe than sorry. Plus, Im the only one in my staff that doesnt carry!!
Now, what to get.....
I shoot 9mm better, and I would prefer something that I could carry with me while riding if I needed to, even though I dont imagine that. I was looking at the Ruger SR9C, or a Glock 19. Any suggestions?
Again, my opinion from a foreigners perspective and perhaps why I always feel kinda nervous travelling around your great country.
Not being critical, just interested from a social standpoint.
No guns here. I live in Chicago and in my day to day life I have almost no exposure to guns among my friends and acquaintences. I'm sure they're out there but the subject rarely comes up. I did learn how to shoot when I was a kid and used to have bb guns and a .22 rifle. No real interest now, even for protection.
I shot competitively for a while in college.
When I finished my MBA, my graduation present to myself was a .40 cal Springfield Armory XD. Love it. I have my CCW and carry just about everywhere I go around town. Ironically, being in the Navy, I'm NOT allowed to carry my weapon with me on base. Kind of funny.
I shoot at a local range when I can. Shooting is a skill that movies and TV have dumbed down considerably (like most things). Many people who seem to be fearful of guns etc have never been shown their proper use, including the safety aspect of handling them. Not advocating for the gun-toting west or anything, but anyone who comes after me with anything less than a loaded gun is going to find my weapon pointing at them until they turn around and run off. I have no desire to hurt anyone...nor do I wish to see my kid or SO hurt because I'm powerless to do anything about it. And unfortunately, this kind of thing does happen. Not to me or my family, if I can do anything about it. Just my $.02
@david, I think this is the first time I've ever seen any one call triathletes "normal folks"! If you think about it maybe that is why it sounds nuts.
I only have three black powder guns (Kentucky long rifle, .45 Derringer and a dueling pistol) for some occasional traget practice and fun. Takes too long to clean up so shooting is few and far between.
I'm Canadian and then moved to California 20 years ago. I have the same fasciation as you about Americans & guns. Just seems really odd to me. Can't ever imagine the need to own / use a gun. I can dial "911" if I need to.
Just find it really interesting - like Phil's mom carrying one around, with all respect I find that a little scary - my mum driving a car around scares me enough!!
I guess the normaility or 'casualness' of the topic I find fascinating, even the fact that its made it on here comes over as very strange to me.
Makes you wonder what some young guy in Iran or Nth Korea thinks - the worlds super-power has citizens (incl Moms) walking around with a hand-gun in their hand-bag, that must freak them out considering.
Here in the "liberal" half of WA state, there is a movement afoot to bring guns out of concealment and into public spaces. (Starbucks is headquartered here.) Yesterday, about 50 feet from where I parked to do my 4 hour bike/1 hour run in Tacoma's largest city park, right next to the gazebo where marriage recpetions (it was Sunday) were taking place, a vendor was set up selling hot dogs, etc. Seemed a little odd (first time I'd seen him there), and when I rolled through after T2, I was going slow enough to see he was really a traveling gun "show", that is, selling weapons basically out of his hot dog stand. Must have been all legal and permitted, as the park is ALWAYS crawling with cops. The whole thing didn't turn any heads, just a part of the background noise of Sunday in the Park.
Personally, I'm with David, but I have a lot of friends, especially my tri friends in the military, who are in the CCW and hunting crowds, so I've learned to be tolerant ... and cautious.
Can't really imagine having a gun in the house with my kids there. Too scared of the unintended possibilities. Just a personal thing, but i have a really hard time convincing myself that I've prepared for everything.
Mike
Nice to see this discussion has remained civil. I've seen this topic spin out of control in other places.
In my experience, the whole guns issue is both regional and cultural. There are regions of the country where "they" are just a big part of life or whatever. All kinds of stuff is tacked on to the issue of gun ownership. Likewise, some people have a family history or culture of gun ownership, whether it's recreation shooting, hunting, etc. The paralell I see is the offroad community in California. If you go out to the deserts you'll see 2-8+ families, with RV's and toyhaulers circled up like a wagon train, sharing their love of offroading. Motorcycles, quads, sandrails, etc. These people have a LOT of dough sunk into their hobby and you can tell it's a big part of the family life for them. Pretty cool to get the kids away from the TV and video games and show them nature, explore the deserts, etc.
Likewise, in '05 Joanne and I took a 3wk motorcycle tour on our Goldwing. I took her all the way up into Canada (Banff, Jasper, etc), through MT, WY, CO, UT, NV, AZ...everywhere. She was very surprised at all of the hunting stuff, the ability to get gas, groceries, a shotgun and ammo all in the same store, etc. I explained to her that, like the offroad stuff above, this is just what people do around here, it's part of their culture and family life.
As a former Marine and resident of LA, I have to say I find it a little funny that people in "other" parts of the country feel the need to carry a gun for protection. I regularly ride my bike on bike paths that, if I had to get off the path and use the surface streets after, say, 1pm when the bangers are done sleeping off their hangovers, I would likely be walking or taking a cab home. By the reasoning applied in other areas of the country, I should probably have an A4 with a 30rnd clip strapped to my seat tube
.
Wisconsin has no provision for CCW, but I own a Glock 19 and 26. I'm a former cop who now trains cops as a certified DOJ Firearms Instructor, but that doesn't allow me to carry concealed. When I was a cop, I rarely carried off duty (and once accidentally drove into Chicago armed!) since I thought it wise to be a good witness rather than a bleeding intervener.
I would apply for a permit if our legislature changes the law, but can't see the need to carry on my bike. Hey, you guys know what the IMWI bike course is like, and that's where I do most of my rides...the cows' only threat is the smell!!!