@“scott Imlay” - You are so funny! Well you didn’t finish CDA in 16, there were lots of good lessons learned from that race around Nutrition and equipment/shifting. Let’s not lose sight of all of that.
Personally, I think Boulder is your best bet. It gives you time to train, and doesn’t bring with that the oppressive heat. The venue is not gorgeous like other races, but there’s a great local vibe and opportunities on the bike and the run to just be steady instead of having to be epic.
Thanks for the advice! I'll tentatively plan on IM Boulder (need to clear it with my family and work).
There aren't really any options for me to do a local (PNW) triathlon before Boulder. Should I plan on HIM St George (May 5), something earlier, or just not race before IM Boulder?
I'm getting ready to register for my first couple races and I noticed that St George is in week 15 of the IM training plan for Boulder. The video on "inserting races in your long course plan" says you shouldn't race a Half in weeks 14 or later, and definitely shouldn't race on weeks 15 or 18. Should I skip St George and just focus on IM Boulder?
Scott - Thise are general guidelines. St. George is so challenging that it almost like doing a full Iron Man race rehearsal. If you want to do it, we can make it happen!
I decided to skip St George and focus on IM Boulder. I'll do a local long-course duathlon (4/29) as a warm-up race.
Currently I'm training using the "Get Faster Intermediate" plan. Based on previous years, I'm guessing I should switch to the "2018 IM Level 2" training plan starting at week 9 (the beginning of the final race prep phase). That would be March 26th. Do you agree with this? Should I do something else?
I've been dealing with lower back spasms and vertigo for the last week and a half (barely able to walk), so I've missed most of the first two weeks of the IM Full final race prep. I feeling a bit better and swam for the first time today. Now I need to figure out how to get back to training safely. Usually, I propose a plan but honestly I don't know where to begin. Any suggestions?
By the way, I really enjoyed the Boomer meet-up tonight. It game me some good ideas on how to avoid getting into this position in the future (more core strength, weight lifting, listen to my body).
Quick update. I did a short run/walk yesterday (2.7 mi) and it went OK. My back is a bit tender but not bad. I'll try a bike ride today, and perhaps another short run. I'm mostly worried about how my back will respond to aero position!
My plan, such as it is, is to gradually work back into the workouts - paying close attention to what my body is saying. At this rate I'm not sure how long it will take to get back to normal workouts. Should I consider going down to L1 from L2?
@“scott imlay” so sorry to hear about that situation. That really stinks, especially the part about the vertigo. I think your best approach to follow the basic plan, but to dial the workouts down to L1. I’m OK with you adding some more time on the bike so that you can get your cardiovascular fitness up, but only if that doesn’t put your back at risk.
Feel free to use the run walk as well as an opportunity to extend your total aerobic time on the “run” to something like 60 or 80 minutes even if not all of it is running. The key is finding the right level of work that will allow you to return to Fitness without overstressing you to quickly. I think the plan is the best path just dial down. Please keep me posted here!
Sounds good to me. There’s no need to be in the air a position right now. Remember, when you spend extended time off the bike all of those muscles need to be re-introduced to the aero position. From your hamstrings to you add doctors in many of those extensors in your back. Let’s take it a little bit at a time! Maybe do some kind of interval set where you are just spending one minute in the bars and four minutes out and we gradually shift that ratio into the positive side for you.
Things are not going well. Between injuries (back), illness (vertigo), business trips, and my disabled daughter breaking her arm (she must now be manually lifted for each transfer from or to her wheel chair - hasn't helped my back) I've only averaged 5hrs/week of training over the last four weeks. I was doing more than twice that during the Get Faster plan back in February. VERY FRUSTRATING!
I'm in the middle of week 14 of the IM Boulder plan and, frankly, my fitness has been going the wrong direction. Based on how my workouts feel, I believe my FTP and V-dot have dropped 5-10%. Worse, I'm breaking down after only 45 min of running (sharp foot pain) or 2-3 hrs of cycling (back pain)! Swimming with vertigo is no fun either - I've gotten sea-sick while swimming in the pool.
At this point my goal is just to finish IM Boulder.
My current plan for the run, if my body will cooperate, is to gradually build up to the full 3hr (week 17 Thu) run over the next 3.5 weeks. My foot pain seems to be exacerbated by the zone 4 intervals (like yesterday) so I'll drop the intensity on those intervals down to zone 3 or less.
I'm hoping, on the bike, that I can get to the full 6 hour race simulation ride on Friday May 4th. I'll lower the power on the next two threshold intervals a bit, and do a steady ride instead of the challenge ride this weekend. I'm also looking for a new chiropractor for the back (my old one has retired and closed down his practice). Other than that, I'm doing a lot of foam rolling and stretching to keep my back and other muscles loose.
@“scott Imlay” - sending you lots of good vibes and energy. That’s a lots of stress; those physical issues are a sign of it.
Lets TS try to spend time sitting up (vs all aero) on the bike. No need for extra stress there. Hopefully you can get that long ride in.
That foot issue sounds like its your peroneal tendon (outside of calf) so we need to be careful as it could result in a stress fracture. You can really roll and massage that out. @Shaughn Simmons might be able to add more here.
I am am ok with the elliptical if straight running is an issue, we just want to rack up the aerobic time.
Your call on the swim; at this point I am ok with sacrificing it for other time on the bike (even if easy).
My foot's doing a much better. I was able to do an 80min run on Thursday with no foot pain. Still rolling and messaging.
To be a little easier on my back, I split up the 5hr bike into two 2.5 hour rides. The back is slowly getting better. I completed the full 8.75hrs for the week, at near the prescribed intensities - just not the continuous 5 hour ride.
@“scott imlay” - that’s great news!!! This means that your fitness is there, we sent to put it all together on race day. I really like your approach to handling those long bike rides. Hopefully you can find the chiropractor and get the final adjustments before the day.
It might be worthwhile picking out a contingency plan if your back starts to go out later in the ride. Is it better to keep your cadence in a certain area? Can you recover with certain stretches or breaks if needed? Things like that.
Just some of my thoughts. For IM transition from GF, Run durability (no Z4) is much more important and sustainable. When the feet begin to communicate severe pain, good idea to listen, let them heal. If extended periods are needed, replace Run TSS with increased bike TSS work. Hard to go wrong there.
I cracked my right 5th metatarsal 7 weeks out from race date by not listening to my feet. Two weeks out I am running slowly again.
Core work and stretching often helps my back which seems to have more problems as I get older. I am 51 in Oct....
Yes, this type of foot pain is new for me. I considered that it might be a stress fracture, but I assume the pain of a stress fracture don't go away after a couple days. Did your cracked metatarsal hurt pretty much any time you had weight on your foot? I like the idea of replacing run TSS with bike TSS.
The back problems seems to hit about once every year or two. I think I'm on an improving trend, but it's really messing with my long weekend rides. I do a sequence of core workouts from "Strength training for runners" and some stretches I was given by a PT a few years ago when I had back pain.
Another variable is that the back pain appeared shortly after I got a new saddle and bike fit. I don't think the two are related, but I have been relaxing the aggressiveness of aero position slightly to see if it might be contributing to my issues.
I'll be turning 60 this September. I have fond memories of being 51! ;-)
Camp weekend started well. I did 100 mile (6+ hour) ride on Friday followed by an hour race-pace run. I even threw in some short steep hills to mimic the Boulder course. Unfortunately, my knee started hurting with 5 minutes to go in the run so I walked the rest of the way. The good news is that my back and foot are doing fine!
My knee continued to hurt the rest of Friday and all day Saturday. I did a 2hr ride Saturday but no run. My knee is feeling better today (Sunday) but I think I'll delay today's scheduled 2hr run until Monday.
@“scott imlay” - That is fantastic news about your foot in your back. Sorry to hear about your knee, but I think your immediate call to rest is great. Let’s not put any additional pressure on yourself given all the good work you’ve just done.
If required, you can split that run in the morning in the afternoon to make room for your knee to handle the load.
Sigh... It's been 5 days since I've had a real run. I've tried three times and each time my knee has cramped up after 3/4 of a mile. I took yesterday off and will attempt a short run tonight. Doing a lot of foam rolling and stretches! I don't have any real question at this point, just keeping you up to date on my progress (or lack thereof).
OK, I seem to have found a run/walk strategy that works for my fragile knee. I do a 9 to 1 ratio run/walk with the run at roughly a TRP pace. The resulting average pace is somewhere between TRP and Z1 - just under 10min/mi for me. This is slower than I have been running but it is better than not running at all. Using this strategy I did a 45 minute run/walk on Wednesday and a 2 hr run/walk Thursday. No running today, and my knee seems OK while walking and swimming.
@“scott imlay” - I didn’t even think about doing a run/walk, that is genius. As you know, this is a great tool to build up your ability to sustain effort and maintain general aerobic fitness. I will take TRP running any time. Do not worry about doing the math on the combination of run and walk time. That’s only for race day.
I generally recommend that you only track the nine minutes of run time, stop the Garmin while you drink and walk then restart it for the next run segment. That is Sufficient and really captures the true “work” that you were doing in the session.
I suggest you try and keep these runs of significant duration at least one day apart. Tuesday/Thursday for example. You can certainly run walk the short break workouts in between but those should be no more than 3 miles or 30 minutes. How does that sound?
I completed the 3 hour run last night using the run/walk strategy (18.8 miles in 3 hr 02 min). I had no unusual pain during the run and have normal muscle soreness today. I'm exhausted but happy!
At this point, I'm planning on using the 9-to-1 run/walk strategy for the IM Boulder run. I think it will allow my fragile legs to complete the marathon reasonably strong. Any thoughts?
Fantastic! I think to keep things simple that you should plan on running to the aid station then walking through it for a minute. Rather than trying to implement a 9/1 strategy independent of aid stations, use each mile is a marker. So you just do your run and when you Reach an aid station lmhit the lap button on your watch. Walk eat drink powerwalk and when it hits a minute, lap it again and run.
I’m very excited for you and proud of how patient you’ve been with this process. Now to dial in the rest of your race plan! Remember, that heart rate and pacing on the bike with nutrition is still critical.
I've been practicing the nutrition and pacing on the bike. My average heart rate is rather low (around 100-110 bpm) but my power numbers are holding right in the 70% FTP range. I'm not drinking as much as I would like, but the weather is still pretty chilly up here in the PNW. I'm sucking down as much nutrition as I can, and I'm doing a pretty good job of making it a habit. The memories of waking up under a pile of ice bags in CdA still haunt me!
Excellent! Remember earlier nutrition timing is fundamentally more significant than later. Another words, I would rather you have two bottles in the first hour of your ride and water bottle there after then drinking more as the day progresses and gets hotter.
You don’t necessarily need it in a training ride, but when you swim first and then bike we need to offset the sweat losses as soon as possible before things start to come pound.
This is one of the reasons why we recommend a short run before The bike on the weekends to simulate this non-drinking/Dehydrated situation. So if you do a brick run before, don’t drink!
Comments
And of course, the team will be there!
Thanks for the advice! I'll tentatively plan on IM Boulder (need to clear it with my family and work).
There aren't really any options for me to do a local (PNW) triathlon before Boulder. Should I plan on HIM St George (May 5), something earlier, or just not race before IM Boulder?
Thanks!
I'm getting ready to register for my first couple races and I noticed that St George is in week 15 of the IM training plan for Boulder. The video on "inserting races in your long course plan" says you shouldn't race a Half in weeks 14 or later, and definitely shouldn't race on weeks 15 or 18. Should I skip St George and just focus on IM Boulder?
Thanks!
I decided to skip St George and focus on IM Boulder. I'll do a local long-course duathlon (4/29) as a warm-up race.
Currently I'm training using the "Get Faster Intermediate" plan. Based on previous years, I'm guessing I should switch to the "2018 IM Level 2" training plan starting at week 9 (the beginning of the final race prep phase). That would be March 26th. Do you agree with this? Should I do something else?
Thanks!
right now we just want the consistency in place.
When you make the trainsition in Week 9 (aka 12 weeks out) you'll have the
time to ramp up to Boulder.
If you want to include some early bike volume into your season, let me
know....maybe one or two weekends in the April / May timeframe.
~ Coach P
Ps - yes to the L2 / Intermediate workouts!
I've been dealing with lower back spasms and vertigo for the last week and a half (barely able to walk), so I've missed most of the first two weeks of the IM Full final race prep. I feeling a bit better and swam for the first time today. Now I need to figure out how to get back to training safely. Usually, I propose a plan but honestly I don't know where to begin. Any suggestions?
By the way, I really enjoyed the Boomer meet-up tonight. It game me some good ideas on how to avoid getting into this position in the future (more core strength, weight lifting, listen to my body).
Thanks!
Scott
My plan, such as it is, is to gradually work back into the workouts - paying close attention to what my body is saying. At this rate I'm not sure how long it will take to get back to normal workouts. Should I consider going down to L1 from L2?
Thanks!
Scott
Did a short bike last night. My back wasn't happy about the aero position, but seems OK this morning. I'll have to be careful on the bike as I heal.
Things are not going well. Between injuries (back), illness (vertigo), business trips, and my disabled daughter breaking her arm (she must now be manually lifted for each transfer from or to her wheel chair - hasn't helped my back) I've only averaged 5hrs/week of training over the last four weeks. I was doing more than twice that during the Get Faster plan back in February. VERY FRUSTRATING!
I'm in the middle of week 14 of the IM Boulder plan and, frankly, my fitness has been going the wrong direction. Based on how my workouts feel, I believe my FTP and V-dot have dropped 5-10%. Worse, I'm breaking down after only 45 min of running (sharp foot pain) or 2-3 hrs of cycling (back pain)! Swimming with vertigo is no fun either - I've gotten sea-sick while swimming in the pool.
At this point my goal is just to finish IM Boulder.
My current plan for the run, if my body will cooperate, is to gradually build up to the full 3hr (week 17 Thu) run over the next 3.5 weeks. My foot pain seems to be exacerbated by the zone 4 intervals (like yesterday) so I'll drop the intensity on those intervals down to zone 3 or less.
I'm hoping, on the bike, that I can get to the full 6 hour race simulation ride on Friday May 4th. I'll lower the power on the next two threshold intervals a bit, and do a steady ride instead of the challenge ride this weekend. I'm also looking for a new chiropractor for the back (my old one has retired and closed down his practice). Other than that, I'm doing a lot of foam rolling and stretching to keep my back and other muscles loose.
Any thoughts?
Lets TS try to spend time sitting up (vs all aero) on the bike. No need for extra stress there. Hopefully you can get that long ride in.
That foot issue sounds like its your peroneal tendon (outside of calf) so we need to be careful as it could result in a stress fracture. You can really roll and massage that out. @Shaughn Simmons might be able to add more here.
I am am ok with the elliptical if straight running is an issue, we just want to rack up the aerobic time.
Your call on the swim; at this point I am ok with sacrificing it for other time on the bike (even if easy).
Let me know re the Chiro!
~ Coach P
My foot's doing a much better. I was able to do an 80min run on Thursday with no foot pain. Still rolling and messaging.
To be a little easier on my back, I split up the 5hr bike into two 2.5 hour rides. The back is slowly getting better. I completed the full 8.75hrs for the week, at near the prescribed intensities - just not the continuous 5 hour ride.
I'll do my best to complete the swims.
news!!! This means that your fitness is there, we sent to put it all together on race day. I really like your approach to handling those long bike rides. Hopefully you can find the chiropractor and get the final adjustments before the day.
Glad to hear the foot is cooperating.
Just some of my thoughts. For IM transition from GF, Run durability (no Z4) is much more important and sustainable. When the feet begin to communicate severe pain, good idea to listen, let them heal. If extended periods are needed, replace Run TSS with increased bike TSS work. Hard to go wrong there.
I cracked my right 5th metatarsal 7 weeks out from race date by not listening to my feet. Two weeks out I am running slowly again.
Core work and stretching often helps my back which seems to have more problems as I get older. I am 51 in Oct....
Reach out as needed. Nice work out there!
SS
Thanks for the information!
Yes, this type of foot pain is new for me. I considered that it might be a stress fracture, but I assume the pain of a stress fracture don't go away after a couple days. Did your cracked metatarsal hurt pretty much any time you had weight on your foot? I like the idea of replacing run TSS with bike TSS.
The back problems seems to hit about once every year or two. I think I'm on an improving trend, but it's really messing with my long weekend rides. I do a sequence of core workouts from "Strength training for runners" and some stretches I was given by a PT a few years ago when I had back pain.
Another variable is that the back pain appeared shortly after I got a new saddle and bike fit. I don't think the two are related, but I have been relaxing the aggressiveness of aero position slightly to see if it might be contributing to my issues.
I'll be turning 60 this September. I have fond memories of being 51! ;-)
Thanks!
My knee continued to hurt the rest of Friday and all day Saturday. I did a 2hr ride Saturday but no run. My knee is feeling better today (Sunday) but I think I'll delay today's scheduled 2hr run until Monday.
If required, you can split that run in the morning in the afternoon to make room for your knee to handle the load.
Still riding and swimming!
At this point, I'm planning on using the 9-to-1 run/walk strategy for the IM Boulder run. I think it will allow my fragile legs to complete the marathon reasonably strong. Any thoughts?
I’m very excited for you and proud of how patient you’ve been with this process. Now to dial in the rest of your race plan! Remember, that heart rate and pacing on the bike with nutrition is still critical.
I've been practicing the nutrition and pacing on the bike. My average heart rate is rather low (around 100-110 bpm) but my power numbers are holding right in the 70% FTP range. I'm not drinking as much as I would like, but the weather is still pretty chilly up here in the PNW. I'm sucking down as much nutrition as I can, and I'm doing a pretty good job of making it a habit. The memories of waking up under a pile of ice bags in CdA still haunt me!
You don’t necessarily need it in a training ride, but when you swim first and then bike we need to offset the sweat losses as soon as possible before things start to come pound.
This is one of the reasons why we recommend a short run before The bike on the weekends to simulate this non-drinking/Dehydrated situation. So if you do a brick run before, don’t drink!