Hey @Coach Patrick. The Victoria 70.3 is just a couple weeks away. I'm currently on the Run-Focused Full plan. How would you recommend modifying the Full plan leading up to Victoria? I know there are resources on the EN site, but I can't seem to find them.
I also wanted to say thank you for the update. As Paul noted, I think it’s great that you were able to find a time to celebrate her. Why don’t you set up a call with me for the end of May so we can see how things are progressing: https://calendly.com/pmccrann/15min
Hey coach. IM Canada is done. I did a bit better than IM Boulder, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I've posted a race report.
Up next is the Black Diamond triathlon (half-iron distance) on September 14. I've loaded the post-IM plan and will continue on that for two weeks? Three weeks? When do you think I should switch to the Half Iron plan?
@Scott Imlay I recommend two weeks of minimal activity as you process the race, after which you can load the half pulling into Black diamond but I would take the first week very easily. It should be more about getting back into the routine of training then trying to hit any goals.
I gave you feedback on your race report, I think your focus for Blackdiamond should be on resolving this nutrition piece from a content and execution standpoint so that you can raise to your potential on the course. What will the weather be like on race day up there?
Good idea on using Black Diamond to practice the hydration/nutrition. I've raced the Black Diamond half three times and the weather has always been moderate and sunny (or partially cloudy). Weatherspark.com says that 3/4 of the time the low is between 50 and 56 degrees, and the high is between 64 and 76 degrees. This is only slightly cooler that the conditions in Whistler this year.
Hey Coach, one more thing. I am signed-up for a 50 km trail race on December 14 (https://calendar.ultrarunning.com/event/deception-pass). I thought it would be a fun little distraction - that is until I read your Ultra Run 101. Now I think this could be a little more difficult than I thought! You said a minimum on 16-weeks of training. I only have 12 weeks between the Black Diamond half and the Deception Pass 50K.
The Deception pass race is rated a 3 in both Elevation and Surface. I do a fair amount of running on the trails in Lord Hill regional park (a short drive from my house), and the race there in the spring has similar ratings, and some sustained climbs of over 400 feet, so I think I can handle it with sufficient training.
There is a shorter trail run over at the same location on October 6 (https://www.evergreentrailruns.com/fidalgo-trail-run/). Should I do the 30K (or perhaps the half) and get some experience on the trails before the 50K?
You don't actually have a 50 KM plan. Would you use the 50-mile plan and scale back the mileage a bit? Also, I'd prefer a balanced plan so that I don't go backwards on my bike power. Thoughts?
You don’t know how much it means to me that you actually read my guidance! In the case of a 50 K event, I actually recommend that people use the balance to marathon plan as a tool because the distance is almost identical during the week and just a slight addition, approximately 10%, for the long run.
I love the idea of doing the 30 K first as a longer training run. You will definitely be ready for that and it will give you a good sense of what’s to come in preparation for the big day. Load up that balanced Marathon PLAN and then we can connect once you got a look at it.
The Black Diamond Half-Iron Triathlon is in the books. It wasn't my best effort - I went into it sick (cold-like symptoms) and didn't have much strength all day. The good news is that my bike hydration/nutrition went well. I held 71% NP and consumed 4 bottles of Nuun hydration and a couple gels. The run went fairly well - no nausea.
In preparation for the Deception Pass 50K (December 14) I've loaded the Level 2 balanced Marathon plan. Deception Pass is a trail run with 4300' of climbing. The Marathon plan doesn't mention where I should do each of the four training runs each week. I was thinking I should do the Monday and Friday Easy runs on hilly trails. Should I also do the Sunday Long run on hilly trails? Thoughts?
@Coach Patrick I saw your season roadmap for IMSG. How should I modify this for my 50K trail race on December 14? IMSG is a higher priority race for me.
First let me answer your question from earlier. I agree that the easy run should be on the trails. That’s the best way to get integrated without having specific paces being disrupted by the nuances of the terrain. It also means that you’ll be a lot safer when running in those areas. I hope you enjoy those runs, those are my favorite ones!
That’s for the 50 K you are in a bit of a recovery. Right now even though you are training for that race. So my guidance would be to ensure that you have two full days off during this build to the 50 K per week through the end of October.
I strongly suggest that you keep your current training to one session per day only so that your total training time is a bit lower than what is “normal“ for you in a typical Multisport season.
I would have you plan to start the November out of season with the rest of the Saint George crew at the end of October. By then you will have another six weeks of running on your legs and should be able to maintain the longer weekend focus while doing the quality work during the week of the old season.
Essentially you would be out season Monday through Friday and 50 K Saturday and Sunday in terms of focus. Once you are through the 50 K we can give you a little bit of time to rest and then go fullbore with the Outseason plan come January 1.
I'm trying to decide on races/camps after St George next year. Two specific questions:
I'd like to do a second IM sometime in the year. I'm leaning toward IMAZ in November 2020. Would that be better than IM Cozumel? Should I think about an IM earlier in the season?
I'm thinking about doing the Epic Camp in Hawaii at the end of May (a full week of SBR that covers the entire IMHI course and ends with the Honu 70.3). My main concern is that it starts only 3 weeks after IMSG. Is that too short a recovery time to have an effective training camp?
Thanks!
P.S. Running the hilly trails is killing my quads!
Have fun running those hills! I love you the variety of terrain and scenery. Just watch those decisions and your back.
If you are going to consider the epic camp, then a leader season Reese would be much better. You will definitely need time to recover. Personally I would check in with brian Hagan who has done the camper. My understanding is that it's just a lot of hours. He might be able to do a better job of connecting your fitness level with the camp and helping you set some expectations. I will take him below and then see if he chimes in about epic camp.
@Coach Patrick I'm not doing the Hawaii Epic camp. I'll probably sign up for the EN volume camp in Tucson. Are there spots still available in the camp?
My season plan is coming together. I did sign up for IM Arizona 2020, so I'll have IMSG in the spring and IMAZ in the fall. I'll probably do a couple 70.3's in the summer (CdA and maybe Calgary), some Oly's, and perhaps another 50k trail run (Volcanic 50k on Aug 1).
Yes spots are available. Would be great to connect with you in person. Check out the camps link and you can contact EB if you have any questions via that site.
The year sounds perfect in terms of a” clean split,” now we just need to keep you healthy!!
Hey @Coach Patrick, I completed my 50K trail race. Just under 7 hours for 31 miles and 4500' of climbing. It was a lot of fun! I'll post a quick race report in the forums.
Unfortunately, my quads are really trashed! I mean "I can barely walk" trashed. It's going to be a longer recovery than I'd hoped. I really don't think I should run this week. Should I follow a Post-Half Iron plan for a week or so before getting back to the Out-Season plan?
So impressive...I loved the recap. Sounds appropriately BRUTAL for something so cool. Kudos to you for trying something new!
No Need to run for TWO WEEKS. You should be spinning easy 20 to 30 minutes, and putting your legs up (or normatec if you have boots to recover). Then in week two you can work in some walking...by week 3 you should feel more normal muscularly, but the fatigue will still be there overall so we will still have to be careful!
Hey @Coach Patrick, I've been finalizing my summer races. On July 25 I'm doing my first 50-mile ultramarathon (White River 50 with 8500' of elevation gain). I'm also doing the CdA 70.3 on June 28th.
I consider the 50-miler a more important race, so I assume I'll be starting the UltraRun 50-miler balanced plan some time shortly after IM St. George.
@Scott Imlay that sounds perfect. We have a balance ultra run training plan that would allow you to include cycling and continue to build towards your half Iron Man as you’re preparing for the ultra run itself. I think that’s the best way to move forward so that we keep you on track with the balance program allowing you to stay healthy and not overdoing the running portion in the middle of your season. We can’t anticipate just how much fatigue are going to have after the Iron Man so we need to be relatively cautious here.
I've deferred from IMSG to 2021 IMCdA. That leaves for this year: 70.3 CdA at the end of June, White River 50-mile ultramarathon near the end of July, and IMAZ near the end of November. The 50-miler is more important to me than 70.3 CdA, but IMAZ is most important.
I had planned on starting the UltraRun 50-miler balanced plan some time shortly after IM St. George. Since no IMSG, I think I'll start the UltraRun 50-miler balanced plan at Week 1 starting on April 6. Does this sound like a good idea?
Also, I was just planning to continue the current IM Full Bike Focused plan for the next two weeks before starting the 50-miler plan. Is there a better option?
Comments
My back is doing better. I think I can now get back to full intensity in the workouts.
@Coach Patrick what would you think of me doing IM Saint George next year?
I signed up for IM St. George on May 2, 2020. Hopefully a year is enough to get me ready for such a tough course!
Hey @Coach Patrick. The Victoria 70.3 is just a couple weeks away. I'm currently on the Run-Focused Full plan. How would you recommend modifying the Full plan leading up to Victoria? I know there are resources on the EN site, but I can't seem to find them.
I also wanted to say thank you for the update. As Paul noted, I think it’s great that you were able to find a time to celebrate her. Why don’t you set up a call with me for the end of May so we can see how things are progressing: https://calendly.com/pmccrann/15min
Hey coach. IM Canada is done. I did a bit better than IM Boulder, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I've posted a race report.
Up next is the Black Diamond triathlon (half-iron distance) on September 14. I've loaded the post-IM plan and will continue on that for two weeks? Three weeks? When do you think I should switch to the Half Iron plan?
@Scott Imlay I recommend two weeks of minimal activity as you process the race, after which you can load the half pulling into Black diamond but I would take the first week very easily. It should be more about getting back into the routine of training then trying to hit any goals.
I gave you feedback on your race report, I think your focus for Blackdiamond should be on resolving this nutrition piece from a content and execution standpoint so that you can raise to your potential on the course. What will the weather be like on race day up there?
Good idea on using Black Diamond to practice the hydration/nutrition. I've raced the Black Diamond half three times and the weather has always been moderate and sunny (or partially cloudy). Weatherspark.com says that 3/4 of the time the low is between 50 and 56 degrees, and the high is between 64 and 76 degrees. This is only slightly cooler that the conditions in Whistler this year.
Hey Coach, one more thing. I am signed-up for a 50 km trail race on December 14 (https://calendar.ultrarunning.com/event/deception-pass). I thought it would be a fun little distraction - that is until I read your Ultra Run 101. Now I think this could be a little more difficult than I thought! You said a minimum on 16-weeks of training. I only have 12 weeks between the Black Diamond half and the Deception Pass 50K.
The Deception pass race is rated a 3 in both Elevation and Surface. I do a fair amount of running on the trails in Lord Hill regional park (a short drive from my house), and the race there in the spring has similar ratings, and some sustained climbs of over 400 feet, so I think I can handle it with sufficient training.
There is a shorter trail run over at the same location on October 6 (https://www.evergreentrailruns.com/fidalgo-trail-run/). Should I do the 30K (or perhaps the half) and get some experience on the trails before the 50K?
You don't actually have a 50 KM plan. Would you use the 50-mile plan and scale back the mileage a bit? Also, I'd prefer a balanced plan so that I don't go backwards on my bike power. Thoughts?
You don’t know how much it means to me that you actually read my guidance! In the case of a 50 K event, I actually recommend that people use the balance to marathon plan as a tool because the distance is almost identical during the week and just a slight addition, approximately 10%, for the long run.
I love the idea of doing the 30 K first as a longer training run. You will definitely be ready for that and it will give you a good sense of what’s to come in preparation for the big day. Load up that balanced Marathon PLAN and then we can connect once you got a look at it.
Hey Coach,
The Black Diamond Half-Iron Triathlon is in the books. It wasn't my best effort - I went into it sick (cold-like symptoms) and didn't have much strength all day. The good news is that my bike hydration/nutrition went well. I held 71% NP and consumed 4 bottles of Nuun hydration and a couple gels. The run went fairly well - no nausea.
In preparation for the Deception Pass 50K (December 14) I've loaded the Level 2 balanced Marathon plan. Deception Pass is a trail run with 4300' of climbing. The Marathon plan doesn't mention where I should do each of the four training runs each week. I was thinking I should do the Monday and Friday Easy runs on hilly trails. Should I also do the Sunday Long run on hilly trails? Thoughts?
Thanks!
@Coach Patrick I saw your season roadmap for IMSG. How should I modify this for my 50K trail race on December 14? IMSG is a higher priority race for me.
First let me answer your question from earlier. I agree that the easy run should be on the trails. That’s the best way to get integrated without having specific paces being disrupted by the nuances of the terrain. It also means that you’ll be a lot safer when running in those areas. I hope you enjoy those runs, those are my favorite ones!
That’s for the 50 K you are in a bit of a recovery. Right now even though you are training for that race. So my guidance would be to ensure that you have two full days off during this build to the 50 K per week through the end of October.
I strongly suggest that you keep your current training to one session per day only so that your total training time is a bit lower than what is “normal“ for you in a typical Multisport season.
I would have you plan to start the November out of season with the rest of the Saint George crew at the end of October. By then you will have another six weeks of running on your legs and should be able to maintain the longer weekend focus while doing the quality work during the week of the old season.
Essentially you would be out season Monday through Friday and 50 K Saturday and Sunday in terms of focus. Once you are through the 50 K we can give you a little bit of time to rest and then go fullbore with the Outseason plan come January 1.
Thanks @Coach Patrick !
😎
Hey @Coach Patrick,
I'm trying to decide on races/camps after St George next year. Two specific questions:
Thanks!
P.S. Running the hilly trails is killing my quads!
Have fun running those hills! I love you the variety of terrain and scenery. Just watch those decisions and your back.
If you are going to consider the epic camp, then a leader season Reese would be much better. You will definitely need time to recover. Personally I would check in with brian Hagan who has done the camper. My understanding is that it's just a lot of hours. He might be able to do a better job of connecting your fitness level with the camp and helping you set some expectations. I will take him below and then see if he chimes in about epic camp.
paging @Brian Hagan please! To the microphone! 🎤
@Coach Patrick I'm not doing the Hawaii Epic camp. I'll probably sign up for the EN volume camp in Tucson. Are there spots still available in the camp?
My season plan is coming together. I did sign up for IM Arizona 2020, so I'll have IMSG in the spring and IMAZ in the fall. I'll probably do a couple 70.3's in the summer (CdA and maybe Calgary), some Oly's, and perhaps another 50k trail run (Volcanic 50k on Aug 1).
Check out the camps link and you can contact EB if you have any questions
via that site.
The year sounds perfect in terms of a” clean split,” now we just need to
keep you healthy!!
~ Coach P
Hey @Coach Patrick, I completed my 50K trail race. Just under 7 hours for 31 miles and 4500' of climbing. It was a lot of fun! I'll post a quick race report in the forums.
Unfortunately, my quads are really trashed! I mean "I can barely walk" trashed. It's going to be a longer recovery than I'd hoped. I really don't think I should run this week. Should I follow a Post-Half Iron plan for a week or so before getting back to the Out-Season plan?
So impressive...I loved the recap. Sounds appropriately BRUTAL for something so cool. Kudos to you for trying something new!
No Need to run for TWO WEEKS. You should be spinning easy 20 to 30 minutes, and putting your legs up (or normatec if you have boots to recover). Then in week two you can work in some walking...by week 3 you should feel more normal muscularly, but the fatigue will still be there overall so we will still have to be careful!
~ Coach P
Thanks @Coach Patrick!
I'll try to do some light swimming next week as well. That usually makes my legs feel better.
I hope that you - and your legs - are ready for the new year, because it is here!
Was it the bike-focused IM plan we should use for St. George?
Swim camp next week?
I know you posted this in the forums but my searches have failed me.
BTW, my legs are fully recovered from the 50K. 😀
Got the IM and Swim camp info from fellow members on GroupMe.
See you in Tucson!
OK that's great. Can't wait to connect with you in Arizona.
Hey @Coach Patrick, I've been finalizing my summer races. On July 25 I'm doing my first 50-mile ultramarathon (White River 50 with 8500' of elevation gain). I'm also doing the CdA 70.3 on June 28th.
I consider the 50-miler a more important race, so I assume I'll be starting the UltraRun 50-miler balanced plan some time shortly after IM St. George.
@Scott Imlay that sounds perfect. We have a balance ultra run training plan that would allow you to include cycling and continue to build towards your half Iron Man as you’re preparing for the ultra run itself. I think that’s the best way to move forward so that we keep you on track with the balance program allowing you to stay healthy and not overdoing the running portion in the middle of your season. We can’t anticipate just how much fatigue are going to have after the Iron Man so we need to be relatively cautious here.
Thanks @Coach Patrick! See you in Tucson!
😎 Happy Miles to You! 🤣
Hey @Coach Patrick,
I've deferred from IMSG to 2021 IMCdA. That leaves for this year: 70.3 CdA at the end of June, White River 50-mile ultramarathon near the end of July, and IMAZ near the end of November. The 50-miler is more important to me than 70.3 CdA, but IMAZ is most important.
I had planned on starting the UltraRun 50-miler balanced plan some time shortly after IM St. George. Since no IMSG, I think I'll start the UltraRun 50-miler balanced plan at Week 1 starting on April 6. Does this sound like a good idea?
Also, I was just planning to continue the current IM Full Bike Focused plan for the next two weeks before starting the 50-miler plan. Is there a better option?
Thanks!