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FTP to get to the Big Show

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  • @Gabe - What i noticed during my IMTX build is that where in the past the training plans would have you taking off the occasional sunday, the 2016 versions have more cycling volume on the weekend but tend to make monday a lighter day.  So what i would do is swim long on sunday before my sunday ride and then take monday as either an off day, a light swim of 2000-2500, or a slow 3-5 mile run.  Looking back my monday TSS was around 40 and no matter what i did or didn't do on monday i was sleeping in.  So using mondays as a semi- recovery day was something i added this year and it has seemed to work well and will for sure keep when i start building again for IM boulder.  Of course that is in addition to getting enough rest.  I try to be in bed by 8:30 or 9:00 and shoot for 8hrs but life often dictates otherwise.

    As far as course rankings goes i came across a really good website that had finish times for all course broken out by age group.  It was the best i had seen, and if a recall it was posted by someone from the UK.  I'll keep looking but in the meantime, this site isn't bad and of course there is the runtri site, but it hasn't been updated in years.

     


  • Posted By Mark Cardinale on 05 May 2016 07:31 AM

    @Gabe - What i noticed during my IMTX build is that where in the past the training plans would have you taking off the occasional sunday, the 2016 versions have more cycling volume on the weekend but tend to make monday a lighter day.  So what i would do is swim long on sunday before my sunday ride and then take monday as either an off day, a light swim of 2000-2500, or a slow 3-5 mile run.  Looking back my monday TSS was around 40 and no matter what i did or didn't do on monday i was sleeping in.  So using mondays as a semi- recovery day was something i added this year and it has seemed to work well and will for sure keep when i start building again for IM boulder.  Of course that is in addition to getting enough rest.  I try to be in bed by 8:30 or 9:00 and shoot for 8hrs but life often dictates otherwise.

    As far as course rankings goes i came across a really good website that had finish times for all course broken out by age group.  It was the best i had seen, and if a recall it was posted by someone from the UK.  I'll keep looking but in the meantime, this site isn't bad and of course there is the runtri site, but it hasn't been updated in years.

    Mark, encouraging to learn about your recovery routine.  I've been doing easy days on Mondays.  I'll do hippy yoga in the morning, which is magic at undoing the damage from the weekend, and then an easy technique-focused swim at lunch.  Hearing an athlete of your caliber takes the same approach makes me feel like I'm on the right path. image

    I hadn't seen that site before.  Thanks for sharing it.  Are you thinking of Coach Cox?  He has very detailed analysis of major IMs.  When I did IMAZ I was able to get a data file of the raw results from his site so I could do my own analysis.  It was pretty cool.

  • Just curious if anyone using Styrd's running power meters uses said data in the Training Peaks training zones? Is there such an option?
  • To win the tour de France, you need an W/kg of 7.0, they say.....

  • Posted By Dino Sarti on 09 May 2016 05:21 PM


    To win the tour de France, you need an W/kg of 7.0, they say.....

    That is an apples to oranges comparison as the TDF numbers include EPO, T, Blood Doping, etc.

  • Just saying.... FYI - they are both skinny fruits in spandex.
  • I like this tread and had the same questions 2-3 years ago. A lot of us set a goal to achieve and want some kinds of safe plan that will help reach it.  Now that I have a few more races completed, I believe that FTP and VDOT are correlating factors to success BUT are not the most important metrics to watch. Like SS says, a NP of a 5 hour bike ride is a much better indicator. What pace you can maintain running for 90 minutes after a 4-5 hour bike ride is also more important. Increasing a FTP or a VDOT will most likely indicate an increase in performance or capacity to perform but will not predict a KQ. Here my recommended plan to KQ:

     1)      Follow the EN plan. It works. Particularly the crazy 3 race training days. Do the 300+ miles of bike in 3 days plus the run and swim wko. Don’t cheat the plan. I always say: every wko gets you closer to your goal, every missed wko, gets you away from your goal. I miss maybe 3 wko a year (I get up early and move wko if travel or work interfere)

    2)      Like JB said, work to a CTL of 140. I heard that from JB before and I believe it was key for me.

    3)      Look at the race time in your age group, compare swim, bike and run times. It shows the performance you need. Can you bike at x mph, can you run a y pace?

    4)      Race 70.3 and IMs! . Unless you are a super athlete, you will need some experience to understand what you need to do to get a KQ. It took me 7 IMs to get it.

    5)      Like coach Rich said, a lot of it is mental strength. When we train, we constantly talk to ourselves; our brain continuously monitors our body, sends us pain signals that we analysis and attempt to ignore. Not sure if there’s another group of people that talk to themselves more than IM athlete!  A lot of focus is written about 3 key factors to succeed: training, equipment and nutrition. I think the mental strength to push past a level of pain is as important. I look up to people (including my wife) who can push themselves to a higher rate of exhaustion (ie: needs an IV at the end of the race!!).

    6)      During training, you need to watch your run pace; focus on improving it or sustaining it. However, arrive at an IM knowing what HR you will aim at (not pace).

    7)      Read race reports. A lot of free information. Helps race execution and prevent some potential mistakes.

    8)      Luck! It includes avoiding accidents; avoiding injuries; mechanical issues; strength of the race field, roll down. I was lucky with a roll down!


    I don’t do many FTP tests. I hoover around 277W. With a weight of 74.5kg, I am below the table at 3.65W/kg. I raced at different NP in the past but I was successful targeting 2.8w/kg at IMWI16.

  • There is a lot of good information and advice in the replies but one thing that I didn't see that pertains to execution is adaptation and a long range plan. EN has a 3 year plan that is a great road map. Last year was my third year in EN and it corresponded to a 3 year plan that I had to attempt a KQ. I aged up to 60-64 last year and so I started in 2014 with a plan to build to this year. I did one IM and one HIM per year and focused on perfecting my execution as well as my training (I'm far from perfect in either though). The adaptation comes in during training and during the race. This year I adapted the EN plan to emphasize recovery and did not set an alarm. If I didn't wake up for the workout I felt like my body was telling me I needed the sleep more. I made sure that I hit all the high priority workouts in the IM Advanced plan and I made the big training weeks an extra high priority and did whatever I needed to do to get through the long workouts. 
    There was adaptation brought on by life as well that I had to deal with including the death of my mom, injuries that kept me in run jail, and a three week trip to New Zealand that included a lot of hiking but very little training. As a result my CTL going into the last week before IM CDA was 98, well below the 120-130 that was my goal earlier in the year. That resulted in adapting my race plan to my fitness. At Al's advice I used my 5 hour power and set a target just below that for my goal race watts.
    Race day adaptation is necessary due to what nature throws at you. It was a hot and windy day so I adjusted my goal down early in the bike to make sure I had a good run so the result at the end was even lower than I expected going in. My FTP was 3.4 w/kg and my IM race day power ended up being 2.2 w/kg. I think that this is where a lot of athletes screw up in the race. They've trained at X power/pace for months and they know what the numbers say and they stick to it. The coaches here try to make sure that EN athletes have a good plan but that they need to adjust it as necessary during the race to match the day. To me that's crucial. It's also crucial that you get to the beginning of the run in good shape, start easy, and then be prepared to turn yourself inside out. I thought that I had some hard races in the past but it was nothing like I experienced at CDA when I KQ'ed. The last 6 miles were brutal. It took everything that I had to keep going and not slow down. I didn't do any running tests last year because of injuries but I trained as if my Vdot was 46. I averaged 9:00 miles on the IM marathon and that's right at Z1 for a Vdot of 46.
    There were a lot of people that suffered during the run at CDA because of the heat. I was raised in Arkansas so I think that helps me deal with the heat, but dialing it back on the bike to set up a good run. I was 5th off the bike and ended up 2nd in my AG with the fastest run split and the fastest T2 split. Speaking of which, nobody mentioned transitions and practicing those can make a difference as well.    
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