@JB - so are you saying I could run a DA 53/34? I thought the large and small rings were designed as specific "pairs". I didn't think I could mix and match the small ring like that. If I could run a 53/34, that would make my week!
@Clark - I won't say definitively 'no' but my guess is that is a stretch. The rings aren't 'designed' together but rather the real issue is the gap between the rings that, if too great, causes issues with the FD. The standard setup is 53/39(14 gap). The compact setup is 50-34(16 gap). The mid-compact setup is 52/36(16 gap). As such, the 16 gap should be sustainable and why I tried out the 53/36 setup which is only 1 tooth different. A 53/34 would be a 19 gap and likely not shift effectively.
I am in the process of buying a ventum. I have so much hesitation in spending that much but I also have a lot of demons in me telling me to buy it. Life is short and wife says yes (what an incredible lucky husband!). I also have to agree with the praise on their customer service; Rachel is so nice to work with. Down to my question. I gave them the 3 dimensions they asked and they came back with a recommended size 51! I am 6 ft, "normal proportion legs and torso"; I have a 2011 Speed Concept size 58cm. I remeasured 5 times! They are looking again at the recommendation and I should hear back tomorrow. Does this appear concerning to anyone? Thanks for this great Forum. I think it will be totally helpful one I get the new toy!
Frederick, I am essentially in your same boat. I am 5'10 though. I am riding a 54 Trek SC, 2012. One of the primary reasons I was looking at a change was to improve my perception that the SC is slightly small (I ride a 56 roadie). But Rachel also informed my that my 3 measurements pointed at a 51. Then she asked for 2-3 more measurements, I sent some more pics, and she/they concluded I needed a 54. As I posted earlier, and Coach R seemed to agree, that getting a pro fit (something I have not done) might be best. To actually give them the stack/reach numbers and such. I bought the SC without really knowing anything, but at least I got to ride it before plunking down the dough. As such, I have not taken the plunge. Trying to figure out where to find time to do a retül somewhere, but like you I have been most impressed with Rachel and the Ventum team.
I am gonna take the plunge as well. I ride a 54 Felt B10 and my measurements came back to a 56! I'm 5'10". My LBS and team has retul fitting and I have a shoulder pinch issue and saddle sore issue so I'm paying for the fit first before actually ordering. Being super non technical and the one who took the measurements, I'm going pro before ordering.
So, help a non techie out...I ride the 2011 Felt B10 Di2 Dura Ace 10 speed. Rachael assures me the Ultegra Ui2 is lighter and easier to use than the 2011 DA. I've read up and it seems like that is the case, or I won't notice a difference in performance. I ride a compact crank now and have placid on tap for 2017. I'm a 3w/kg ish girl. I think I need the compact. Not knowing the big differences of 10 vs 11 speed, do I? I'm not a tiny climber type. It is special order, no price difference so not a big deal to go one way or the other.
After I get my fit details to them, what else should I be asking about/for? The Felt was a surprise gift from my husband after my first IM and my coach (the fitter) helped him pick the bike for me and I love it. I've not shopped for a tri rig since 2010! I'm looking forward to having a new bad assed bike to use as a whip to focus on my riding and help with my running 0ff the bike next year! Gotta earn it!
I also have zipps on the felt. My power tap is in the hub of the 808. Should I try and convert it to 11 speed (cheaper option than getting new pt1 pedals) or just keep those wheels for my 10speed road bike and go with the reynolds strike? I've always ridden my zipps so its all I know. They are pretty rock solid. I've had the hub replaced this season on the 404 due to a recall and the power tap last season. Thoughts??? And thanks for any input!
Just my $0.02. If the Ultegra Di2 is good enough for Tim Cronk, it's good enough for me. I think you will be happy with the huge upgrade to electronic and the extra $ required to go full Dura Ace is unnecessary. If you're riding a compact now and it works for you then stick with it. One bit of good news is that the Shimano crankset can switch between compact, mid-compact and standard without issue, so if you wanted to switch, you just need new rings, not a new crankset.
The zipps are a tougher call. They can probably be be upgraded to 11 speed by replacing the freehub or with a custom cassette. That would save you some cash since Ventum will sell you the bike with no wheels. That said, I bet your road bike would look great with the zipps.
Trish, if you have a G3 hub then all you have to do is take the 10 speed cassette off, take the spacer out and install the 11 speed cassette. If it's older then I doubt you can upgrade it. I had a compact on my Felt but my P3 came with a 53/36 X 11/25. I like this much better although I do have to get into some low cadence for steep hills, most of the time it's great. My wife has the same setup and likes it better than her Felt, but that one had 650 wheels.
If you have mechanical now then Ultegra 11 Speed DI2 will be a HUGE upgrade. I would absolutely go that route.
Beyond that, I'd check your reach measurements. I had a hard time getting the fit with their integrated bars and ended up swapping for 3rd party bars.
On the wheels, this is really personal preference. I'd buy the whole bike and either sell the new rims/use your old, sell the old/use your new, or transfer your old wheels to a road bike etc. With the discount you can't go wrong buying the wheels.
Trish, you are smarter than me going for the fit first! I spoke at length with Rachel today, sent the IMWI pics (which are now available!!!) and she was awesome explaining my options between a 54 and 56. Here are a few reasons (ie mental justification for my emotional "10 year old can't wait attitude"): 1) based on my current fit and measurement, the 56 would not offer additional opportunity to lower the handle bars (except getting a different bar ass'y), 2) my current handle bar is at the lowest it can be and I believe I can go more aggressive 3) I am still hurt from the race and do not feel like biking for a 4 hour bike fit session and it may not give a full spectrum of optimization if I am still sore - I would have to wait even longer , 4) they have a 30 day policy and said I can return the bike if the size if not working! That is service! I plan on going for a fit right after I get it and feel good . I picked the 54 and gave my credit card #!!!!! BTW, congratulation on your race results.
Jeremy, sorry for not listening to you (Mr Miyagi's), my great mentor. You have kids and I know you understand this behavior!
Jeremy and Clark...I have been spoiled rotten and riding electronic Di2 shifting since getting the Felt B10. That was when it just came out. Good thing my husband is an early adopter! Still, based on what I've read I think I'll be fine with 2106 Ultegra Di2 vs 2011 DA Di2. Buying the wheels at discount does sound like a good idea. And I really want the PT P1 pedals. So much easier to travel, rent a bike and have power!
Frederick, thank you and HUGE congrats to you and your KQ!!! Simply awesome!
Posted By Trish Marshall on 15 Sep 2016 07:17 PM Jeremy and Clark...I have been spoiled rotten and riding electronic Di2 shifting since getting the Felt B10. That was when it just came out. Good thing my husband is an early adopter! Still, based on what I've read I think I'll be fine with 2106 Ultegra Di2 vs 2011 DA Di2. Buying the wheels at discount does sound like a good idea. And I really want the PT P1 pedals. So much easier to travel, rent a bike and have power!
Frederick, thank you and HUGE congrats to you and your KQ!!! Simply awesome!
You will notice ZERO difference between DA and Ultegr Di2 is what I would imagine.
As far as the P1s...highly recommend. It makes all the things easier plus when you move from road bike to tri bike or vice versus you know the numbers are comparable.
FIT- on a Ventum is the same as it is on any other bike and the most important part of the purchase...It either fits or it doesn't with the Ventum front end... Next choice is third party front end and it either fits or it doesnt.... Its stack and reach of your contact points (think elbo pads, aerobars, base bars) NOT the stack and reach of the frame.... Do yourself a favor and make sure it will fit.... Dont just buy and hope cause you can return....
Dura-Ace Di2 vs. Ultegra Ui2 - I dont know maybe a few ounces and lots of dollars..... I had original DuraAce Di2 on my FELT , I have ridden 2 tri-bikes with Ui2 ..... There is ZERO difference in feel or performance.... Sorry to those that bought DuraAce but its like throwing money away IMO.... Oh dont worry I am that guy that throws money away , I opted for DuraAce Di2 on my Cervelo S5 and Heather went with Ui2 on her Cervelo S3.... The difference? I like her bike better and it cost half as much as mine !
+1 on the P1 pedals - although mine are giving me much different numbers than my Quarq and Computrainer- truly another thread but figured I post real quick in here... I did a test on the FELT with P1 and Quarq at the same time results were 218ftp vs. 228ftp which is a huge difference for a little guy like me... I feel the P1's are consistently giving me 10 watts less than I used to see on the Quarq... When I rode the Ventum on CT this week I did a bunch of interval comps and the P1's were 8-12 watts less than CT on every interval.... Quarq always came within a couple watts of CT... I am too close to my race to play around anymore so am adapting to the new normal... But before I start a thread and or call Powertap I will test the P1's against a Stages and a P2M to prove without a doubt they are lower.... Bottomline I love the pedals and dont care about the numbers as long as they continue to be consistent... I just wanna know if they are truly wrong then I can ask them to fix or replace... I will also compare them to Heather's P1's ...
Likes- I am absolutely loving my Ventum.... Rode it on a trainer this week and even that was better than the FELT... Just awesome feeling... For some reason I am finding I can stay AERO for longer and much easier on this bike and I really can't tell you why as my fit co-ordinates are the same...
Dislikes - The Ui2 base gets hidden in the front brake fairing so you can't see the lights for testing the battery... Must remove the fairing to check... Missing a place for food.... I Like the built in bottle but I like to drink sports drink not water and there is no getting around a sticky bike.... It also feels extremely heavy... Even with no fluids... Gonna weigh it soon compared to Heathers SC and will throw that up here when I do...
Thanks Tim for the feedback..I read this week that the SC is 2 lbs lighter comparing a large size frame. Your feedback are 100% aligned with my concerns which have been expressed in previous message. I am however confident to overcome them and solutions will come. I need a bottle cage for energy drinks and a bento box for nutrition (although I can fit some in my back pockets). I will keep everyone posted on my bike fit.
Stay tuned fellow Ventumites. I'm playing with some ideas on my 3D printer to use that empty space between the integrated hydration and the stem for a bento/storage/etc. Unfortunately it won't be ready for Kona, but I'll share my IP with you all once I have a workable solution.
@TC - you need a DFly for the Ui2. With the DFly you can see your battery level on your Garmin headset. You can also see gear position and even tooth values, if you program them into the headset. I highly recommend. If you do pick one up, remember that you need an extra etube wire in the proper length for your intended setup.
@TC - you need a DFly for the Ui2. With the DFly you can see your battery level on your Garmin headset. You can also see gear position and even tooth values, if you program them into the headset. I highly recommend. If you do pick one up, remember that you need an extra etube wire in the proper length for your intended setup.
Oh, and I changed the routing on my DI2 when I changed bars so now the junction is visible/accessible behind the stem. Will try to get some pics posted. This way you don't need a DFly
Not specific to ventum, but are all retül outlets going to get me what I need? Looking it up on their website, there is a certified shop about 40 miles from me, in Seattle area.
@FG- for me jersey pockets are fine for food when training but not racing.... for racing I plan to use concentrated BTA calories, sportsdrink calories in the built in bottle , but I would still like a small box for a some emergency snack, advil, tums, salt type options...
@Jeremy- look forward to your solution... I also know Ventum is working on one but I fear their solution is to make the fluid portion smaller to introduce the food portion.. course there is only so much room and I really dont want to start bolting crap on the bike after I bought such a clean looking system.... That is a plus for having the di2 junction box hidden IMO as well...
@Clark- Thnaks I had no idea they had that animal, never heard of it.... But, Dfly is not compatible with Ventum (mounting on seat stay) joking of course... but mounting on the Ventum would require a little thought trying to keep it clean.. Pretty cool but the only feature I would use is the battery status but I really like the idea.... Course its an almost 100 dollar idea but pennies compared to what we spend.... I am even gonna consider it on Heathers SC to clean it up some more... Her Di2 junction is clean behind the stem but tight with her bento box... My stem is flat so I really dont want to re-route it outside of the brake cover and remount it on the stem ... Maybe I'll buy one Dfly to see how it works on each of our bikes... Its bound to work really well on at least one and if I really like it just another...
@DS- I have never had a Retul fit but my understanding is yes they will provide all the measurements you need and more.. My limited fit experience and understanding comes from a fit with Todd at TTbike fit , meeting and testing in Velodrom with Jim Manton, and discussions with Dan Empfield when he did a fit for Heather...
Seems so silly that they can't have an app that tells you to charge the DI2... They have an app for everything else. Jeremy... Maybe when your done crafting you hardware solutions you could switch over to the software side???
I'm going to say it... I don't like this bottle... Seems too hard to drink what I need with the bite valve. If you take the bite valve off it pours Gatorade all over the bike when you go downhill. It's not as easy to close on the fly as it should be. Plus... How the Heck are you going to clean it? I'm planning on replacing it every season at least. I've seen how quickly you can pick up mold on a sports bottle lid... And I actively scub those!
@ Clark - just set up a 53/36 on my new Madone RSL Road bike, haven't had any shift issues yet and have done more rides. Actually have more issues with my Q rings on the tri bike (52/36) and thinking of changing that ringy out to a 53 as well.
@DS- more fit thoughts for you... there is the optimum/fastest fit and then there is the reality/real life/I can ride this fit for the IM distance fit... guys like Jim Manton kinda push you into the fastest fit believing you will adapt which is partially true... other fitters will sit back and keep asking you if you are comfortable, hence not getting you agressive enough.... and of course this is tough to determine until you get out on those long rides... search for the best you can figure out during your fit but try to make sure your bike choices allow for small adjustments in up/down back/forward contact points from that fit for fine tuning...
@EE - I hear you on that bite valve... it requires effort to suck and I like my effort going to the pedals... I also have taken to keeping it open when I am done drinking to allow a little air in it to minimize the drips before I let go of the straw... I'm thinking maybe a fixed verticle position of the straw with bite valve removed maybe worth a try....
Weight- ITS a BEAST..... I weighed Heathers SC w/Hed Jet 40/60 , 2 flat kits , 2 empty bottles ( IOW race day ready minus fluid/nutrition) it came in at 21.8lbs vs. My Ventum 60/Disc , 2 flat kits, no fluids a whopping 24.6lbs..... I knew it felt heavy but wow.... That is 2.8lbs difference, there maybe 1lb extra in my wheels but all else is equal.... Consider when I fill the bottle and put a bottle in the BTA for race day my bike will weigh 27.6 lbs..... That is HUGE for a lightweight like me.. I've always had a little pet peeve about w/kg discussions because this should include rider/bike combined which distorts the data greatly for lightweights considering the bike for a 120lber pretty much weighs within ounces of a 180lber....I'm Not too concerned about IMMD but IMLP next year ??? I may have to keep my FELT for hilly courses...
Comments
Withrow for the win!
That bento would work great for Rich's "bucket of chicken" approach to just-riding-along....
@Clark - I won't say definitively 'no' but my guess is that is a stretch. The rings aren't 'designed' together but rather the real issue is the gap between the rings that, if too great, causes issues with the FD. The standard setup is 53/39(14 gap). The compact setup is 50-34(16 gap). The mid-compact setup is 52/36(16 gap). As such, the 16 gap should be sustainable and why I tried out the 53/36 setup which is only 1 tooth different. A 53/34 would be a 19 gap and likely not shift effectively.
yes the 53/34 chainrings would be a stretch.
my 52/34 works fair with etp. plan to change to 52/36. although actually I just changed to single chainring.
I sent them the 3 measurements plus my retul fit info. When they built it they even set it up with all those dimensions... Who does that???
So, help a non techie out...I ride the 2011 Felt B10 Di2 Dura Ace 10 speed. Rachael assures me the Ultegra Ui2 is lighter and easier to use than the 2011 DA. I've read up and it seems like that is the case, or I won't notice a difference in performance. I ride a compact crank now and have placid on tap for 2017. I'm a 3w/kg ish girl. I think I need the compact. Not knowing the big differences of 10 vs 11 speed, do I? I'm not a tiny climber type. It is special order, no price difference so not a big deal to go one way or the other.
After I get my fit details to them, what else should I be asking about/for? The Felt was a surprise gift from my husband after my first IM and my coach (the fitter) helped him pick the bike for me and I love it. I've not shopped for a tri rig since 2010! I'm looking forward to having a new bad assed bike to use as a whip to focus on my riding and help with my running 0ff the bike next year! Gotta earn it!
I also have zipps on the felt. My power tap is in the hub of the 808. Should I try and convert it to 11 speed (cheaper option than getting new pt1 pedals) or just keep those wheels for my 10speed road bike and go with the reynolds strike? I've always ridden my zipps so its all I know. They are pretty rock solid. I've had the hub replaced this season on the 404 due to a recall and the power tap last season. Thoughts??? And thanks for any input!
The zipps are a tougher call. They can probably be be upgraded to 11 speed by replacing the freehub or with a custom cassette. That would save you some cash since Ventum will sell you the bike with no wheels. That said, I bet your road bike would look great with the zipps.
I had a compact on my Felt but my P3 came with a 53/36 X 11/25. I like this much better although I do have to get into some low cadence for steep hills, most of the time it's great. My wife has the same setup and likes it better than her Felt, but that one had 650 wheels.
If you have mechanical now then Ultegra 11 Speed DI2 will be a HUGE upgrade. I would absolutely go that route.
Beyond that, I'd check your reach measurements. I had a hard time getting the fit with their integrated bars and ended up swapping for 3rd party bars.
On the wheels, this is really personal preference. I'd buy the whole bike and either sell the new rims/use your old, sell the old/use your new, or transfer your old wheels to a road bike etc. With the discount you can't go wrong buying the wheels.
We are building quite the Ventum army!
Jeremy, sorry for not listening to you (Mr Miyagi's), my great mentor. You have kids and I know you understand this behavior!
Frederick, thank you and HUGE congrats to you and your KQ!!! Simply awesome!
You will notice ZERO difference between DA and Ultegr Di2 is what I would imagine.
As far as the P1s...highly recommend. It makes all the things easier plus when you move from road bike to tri bike or vice versus you know the numbers are comparable.
Dura-Ace Di2 vs. Ultegra Ui2 - I dont know maybe a few ounces and lots of dollars..... I had original DuraAce Di2 on my FELT , I have ridden 2 tri-bikes with Ui2 ..... There is ZERO difference in feel or performance.... Sorry to those that bought DuraAce but its like throwing money away IMO.... Oh dont worry I am that guy that throws money away , I opted for DuraAce Di2 on my Cervelo S5 and Heather went with Ui2 on her Cervelo S3.... The difference? I like her bike better and it cost half as much as mine !
+1 on the P1 pedals - although mine are giving me much different numbers than my Quarq and Computrainer- truly another thread but figured I post real quick in here... I did a test on the FELT with P1 and Quarq at the same time results were 218ftp vs. 228ftp which is a huge difference for a little guy like me... I feel the P1's are consistently giving me 10 watts less than I used to see on the Quarq... When I rode the Ventum on CT this week I did a bunch of interval comps and the P1's were 8-12 watts less than CT on every interval.... Quarq always came within a couple watts of CT... I am too close to my race to play around anymore so am adapting to the new normal... But before I start a thread and or call Powertap I will test the P1's against a Stages and a P2M to prove without a doubt they are lower.... Bottomline I love the pedals and dont care about the numbers as long as they continue to be consistent... I just wanna know if they are truly wrong then I can ask them to fix or replace... I will also compare them to Heather's P1's ...
Likes- I am absolutely loving my Ventum.... Rode it on a trainer this week and even that was better than the FELT... Just awesome feeling... For some reason I am finding I can stay AERO for longer and much easier on this bike and I really can't tell you why as my fit co-ordinates are the same...
Dislikes - The Ui2 base gets hidden in the front brake fairing so you can't see the lights for testing the battery... Must remove the fairing to check... Missing a place for food.... I Like the built in bottle but I like to drink sports drink not water and there is no getting around a sticky bike.... It also feels extremely heavy... Even with no fluids... Gonna weigh it soon compared to Heathers SC and will throw that up here when I do...
Thanks Tim for the feedback..I read this week that the SC is 2 lbs lighter comparing a large size frame. Your feedback are 100% aligned with my concerns which have been expressed in previous message. I am however confident to overcome them and solutions will come. I need a bottle cage for energy drinks and a bento box for nutrition (although I can fit some in my back pockets). I will keep everyone posted on my bike fit.
Stay tuned fellow Ventumites. I'm playing with some ideas on my 3D printer to use that empty space between the integrated hydration and the stem for a bento/storage/etc. Unfortunately it won't be ready for Kona, but I'll share my IP with you all once I have a workable solution.
Oh, and I changed the routing on my DI2 when I changed bars so now the junction is visible/accessible behind the stem. Will try to get some pics posted. This way you don't need a DFly
@Jeremy- look forward to your solution... I also know Ventum is working on one but I fear their solution is to make the fluid portion smaller to introduce the food portion.. course there is only so much room and I really dont want to start bolting crap on the bike after I bought such a clean looking system.... That is a plus for having the di2 junction box hidden IMO as well...
@Clark- Thnaks I had no idea they had that animal, never heard of it.... But, Dfly is not compatible with Ventum (mounting on seat stay) joking of course... but mounting on the Ventum would require a little thought trying to keep it clean.. Pretty cool but the only feature I would use is the battery status but I really like the idea.... Course its an almost 100 dollar idea but pennies compared to what we spend.... I am even gonna consider it on Heathers SC to clean it up some more... Her Di2 junction is clean behind the stem but tight with her bento box... My stem is flat so I really dont want to re-route it outside of the brake cover and remount it on the stem ... Maybe I'll buy one Dfly to see how it works on each of our bikes... Its bound to work really well on at least one and if I really like it just another...
@DS- I have never had a Retul fit but my understanding is yes they will provide all the measurements you need and more.. My limited fit experience and understanding comes from a fit with Todd at TTbike fit , meeting and testing in Velodrom with Jim Manton, and discussions with Dan Empfield when he did a fit for Heather...
I'm going to say it... I don't like this bottle... Seems too hard to drink what I need with the bite valve. If you take the bite valve off it pours Gatorade all over the bike when you go downhill. It's not as easy to close on the fly as it should be. Plus... How the Heck are you going to clean it? I'm planning on replacing it every season at least. I've seen how quickly you can pick up mold on a sports bottle lid... And I actively scub those!
@ Clark - just set up a 53/36 on my new Madone RSL Road bike, haven't had any shift issues yet and have done more rides. Actually have more issues with my Q rings on the tri bike (52/36) and thinking of changing that ringy out to a 53 as well.
Geez, THIS will solve ^^That^^ problem too easily!
@EE - I hear you on that bite valve... it requires effort to suck and I like my effort going to the pedals... I also have taken to keeping it open when I am done drinking to allow a little air in it to minimize the drips before I let go of the straw... I'm thinking maybe a fixed verticle position of the straw with bite valve removed maybe worth a try....
Weight- ITS a BEAST..... I weighed Heathers SC w/Hed Jet 40/60 , 2 flat kits , 2 empty bottles ( IOW race day ready minus fluid/nutrition) it came in at 21.8lbs vs. My Ventum 60/Disc , 2 flat kits, no fluids a whopping 24.6lbs..... I knew it felt heavy but wow.... That is 2.8lbs difference, there maybe 1lb extra in my wheels but all else is equal.... Consider when I fill the bottle and put a bottle in the BTA for race day my bike will weigh 27.6 lbs..... That is HUGE for a lightweight like me.. I've always had a little pet peeve about w/kg discussions because this should include rider/bike combined which distorts the data greatly for lightweights considering the bike for a 120lber pretty much weighs within ounces of a 180lber....I'm Not too concerned about IMMD but IMLP next year ??? I may have to keep my FELT for hilly courses...