Fat Adapted / Primal Endurance
So slamming down all these carbs and sugars has worried me from a long-term health perspective. Both my father and uncle have/had diabetes, and I don't want to go down that road.
Prior to getting into endurance sports in 2013, I spent a few years doing strength-based training. Quick recap of my origin story: after my first daughter as born in 2010, I had put on about 20lbs of "sympahty weight." A friend recommended P90X. I loved it and got great results. I ended up working my way through pretty much every Beachbody program. I got tired of lifting weights, doing push ups, and jumping around my living room, so I decided to dust off my running shoes and do another marathon followed by my first half ironman.
During the time I did strength training, I followed the Paleo Diet outlined in the book of the same name. I ate as much quality meat, veggies, and fruit as a I wanted. I limited processed sugars to only during intense workouts and ate limited grains. I got great results, and after going through carb withdrawal, had a very even energy level throughout the day.
When I decided to embrace endurance sports I figured I'd have to commit carbocide again because, hey, that's what all the books and magazines tell you. During my foray into ultrarunning over the last year I discovered many ultrarunners are following the fat adapted / primal / paleo diet. Even elite runners such as Zach Bitter, who set the world record for 100 miles, and Timothy Olson, who won Western States twice. That got me thinking about switching back to a Paleo approach for endurance sports.
I've been reading Primal Endurance lately. I like it for it's simplicity and practical approach to switching to fat adapted. I read The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance and came away convinced by the scientific evidence but lacking an actionable plan. Primal Endurance says it takes 21 days to become fat adapted.
I'm planning to make the switch after Dead Horse 50-mile Ultra in Moab in November. I'd love to hear from folks in Da Haus who've gone primal / fat adapted. What was the process like and what resources, such as books, did you find helpful? How did you perform in endurance events after making the transition?
Thanks for making it through this rambling post. 
Comments
Tim Noakes has been doing a bunch of research on the subject and I've also listened to some podcasts with him.
I have to say the topic is intriguing and I've read / listened to a lot of information on the subject.
As far as diets go, the Paleo diet always gets ranked right near the bottom of the pile. I'm more inclined to follow the Medeterarnian diet guidelines with more fruits / veggies / lean proteins / good fats as that diet is always listed at or near the top of high-quality diets on the major longevity studies.
I exercise with simple sugar carbs without a problem.
Love to hear other experiences on this topic!
Tom...listening to Phil Maffetone on Endurance Planet and some of the ultrarunning podcasts I follow is what got me interested in the fat adapted approach. Brad Kearnes, the co-author of Primal Endurance, also has a podcast and has appeared on Endurance Planet. The book aligns pretty closely with the Maffetone approach. The podcasts were enough to interest me, but I don't feel like it gave me a complete system to follow. That's where I think the book shines.
I'll summarize my key take aways from Primal Endurance:
John Withrow followed a fat adapted diet and KQ'd at IMMT a couple of years ago. Here is the thread http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/15585/Default.aspx
I have been transitioning/transitioned to a Primal type diet since April. Before that I was high carb/low fat and really watched what I ate. Seems to have worked for me body weight and fat % are at all time lows, lipid profile is best ever.
Current diet is 65%+ calories/day from fat, 15-20% protein, remainder carbs- usually about 3000-3500 cal/day. I train 'low' except when I am practicing race nutrition and race 'high' with energy gels/drink/standard carbo load etc. I can skip meals without feeling depleted and do many workouts fasted or nearly fasted (just coffee and coconut oil) without problems. Energy and mood, sleep, and overall sense of well being seem to be better than when I was on high carb/lowfat. I don't seem to have carb cravings or sugar crashes and my wicked sweet tooth has all but disappeared. I'm never really hungry like I used to get when watching calories on the high carb diet.
Since starting the diet I have raced a HIM with a near PB (incl PB run of 1:34) and my first IM at Tremblant in 10:45
Not really following the exercise part of Primal Endurance except the HR stuff for cardio- try to keep HR lower most of the time especially for runs, excepting Z3+ efforts.
Besides the Primal Endurance book, I look to the 'mark's daily apple' and 'the daily lipid' websites for guidance, listen to primal living, primal endurance and daily lipid podcasts, and I have also read Dr. Noakes 'real meal revolution' book.
My advice if you want to start the primal type diet is first just try to cut out completely all grains/corn, sweets, and processed foods then fold the rest in as you learn more. Don't get too caught up in the 21 day thing unless you really want the ketogenic diet. The hardest thing is to not let it turn into a high fat/high protein diet. Protein intake has to be moderated. Also it's not paleo there are differences- and frankly some of the paleo stuff is just out there IMO. Learn to like butter, avocado and coconut oil!
Wow @Satish that is almost my exact reply too. I too have a family hx of DM and have noticed I suffer a heap from carbocide. I was Primal back in 2014 and went 9:59 at CHOO weighing about 168lbs. I then lost my way and strayed w carbocide putting on weight before I joined EN and went to Tx in May. At CHOO I used Ucan w gels. For Tx this year I went all sugar with EFS pro due to heat for the electrolytes. I was 9:10 (short bike) but didn't feel great pounding sugar and my weight was around 178 as I struggled to lose weight eating the carbs and using carbs in long training sessions. My plan for IMMD before I pulled out with bronchitis was back to Ucan and 1000 cals for the day - 800 on bike and 200 on run. I am back to 168lbs following this eating plan and was looking forward to race so will have to wait til spring.
I love the Ucan bars as I eat one and it keeps me full for most of the morning. I use low HR for run and power for bike but focusing on keeping HR low with pushing power on bike. If all goes well I won't stray this fall and will get below 160lbs for next year and have a great 2017 following primal but I also plan to race on no sugar - straight Ucan. A lot of people struggle with the switch to Ucan, and so did I, but I found when my daily diet is devoid of sugar, Ucan works great.
Like Satish my higher fat intake keeps me full, my blood markers have been good and most importantly my fasting glucose is much better given my family history. I do all my training fasted on black coffee and have no issues. For longer bikes I use the first hour to "eat", and just a few weeks ago I did an 18 mile run in Florida heat and humidity on just water after 1 scoop of Ucan and Base Salt prior to run with no hunger or fade in pacing. I really believe in this stuff.
Thanks @Brenda for the link as there is a lot of good info there, particularly the link to Sami.
@Satish and Daniel, really cool to hear about your success with Primal! I'm definitely going to give it a go after the Dead Horse Ultra in November. The book has made me much more conscious of all the sugar I was pounding down. I've cut out sugar expect during workouts. Although I didn't gain weight with the high carb approach, I have energy fluctuations throughout the day. I'm usually a zombie around 3PM, which sucks for work. And I just can't shake that this isn't a recipe for long term health.
I'll check out UCAN. I've heard good things about it.
Good luck- look forward to reading about your success.
I have heard good things about UCAN but I don't bother with it because its expensive and difficult to get here in Canada, and to me is just another form of processed food, I seem to get by fine with real food (banana mostly) during bike workouts ad if necessary before runs and swims. Since insulin response is blunted during and immediately post exercise I don't have an intellectual problem with some carbs around workouts.
This website is also helpful: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Main_Page
Can anyone give me an update?
I reduced the amount of sugar and grains significantly. If I have to eat grains because we have to live in the real world, I stick to whole grains. I completely eliminated processed food. I get most of my carbs from fruit. I replaced my morning cereal with a primal smoothly with coconut milk and fruit. I don't do the pasta carb loading dinners anymore. Instead I try to get in salad and meat. I wouldn't say I am low carb, but certainly lower than I was. Now I get it from cleaner sources.
I still fuel my workouts with Tailwind. I think that going full ketogenic would be good for cutting weight, but your workouts would need to be dialed back significantly. Trying to improve fitness and go super low carb are probably orthogonal goals.
The results of my n=1 experiment are:
Dumb question- How did you tag me? I can't seem to tag people.
Also- what is Tailwind? I'm not familiar with that one.
To tag someone, use the @ symbol and then their name. It will suggest names after you type a few characters.
Tailwind is a sports drink used extensively in the ultra community. It's way better than Gatorade Endurance. Super clean, no rotten gut, and no saturated palete. I use it as my primary nutrition for endurance events now. Drank it for almost 10 hours during my 50 miler with just a little food. My stomach felt great at the end.
http://www.tailwindnutrition.com
@Gabe Peterson I'm interested in the fat adapted approach for my general health. My weight is stable (ok being 10 lbs lighter would be nice) but I'm definitely a carbaholic. With my first forays into long distance racing this year I think I'll wait till late summer to make the shift.
I wouldn't make the change in season to primal. Give yourself 30 days where you significantly dial back you training. I had serious carb withdrawals. I pushed it too hard and ended up getting really sick for four weeks.
Carbs do work, so I'd just roll with it this season. Like you, I was worried about the long-term health implications of carbocide. It's been gravy that I've experienced the benefits I listed above. I got used to needing 9 hours of sleep, so now I'm having to adjust my life to only needing 7-8 hours. Otherwise, I wake up at 4AM.
I fuel my long workouts and races primarily with Tailwind. It is hands down the best sports drink I've used. No saturated palette or rotten gut. I took in about 200 calories / hour. I had a couple Gu Chomps, but otherwise got my calories from Tailwind.
I've heard a few podcast with Zach Bitter, the fat adapted athlete who holds the record for the fastest 100 miler, and he described it as tickling in about 150 calories per hour through gels and sports drinks. I treat Tailwind as rocket fuel to be used carefully for tough workouts and racing.
My recovery times are about half of what they used to be. A marathon distance race would have taken about two weeks when I was committing carbocide. I was pretty much recovered by the next Saturday and able to run up the side of a mountain.
I am (unlike you guys) menopausal and not able to shake any of the added weight I've gained. Worked with a nutritionist who works with women and menopause and still struggled with the plan. On day four of going very low carb and higher fat. Weird for me for sure, but already feeling more satiated with eating. Only doing very low intensity water jogging and spinning due to my foot injury. I just feel like this might help me shake the extra 10-14 pounds I've been fighting the last few years. Plus, perfect timing workout wise as I am injured and can't go hard at the moment. I age up next year and am hoping I can have a great day at IMKY. Hoping being leaner and less inflamed works!
I will be reading up on the links shared here! Lots to learn! Thanks!
When I was ultra-running and ready for Western States 100 then twisted my ankle and had to back out, Tailwind, UCan, etc. were nowhere on the radar. It was CarboPro mixed with other things and I LOVED PB&J's at the aid station! :-) Oreo's, not so much. And gummy bears were the emergency snack of choice.
Now 6 years later away from endurance sport......I am 25 pounds above my 2011 IMAZ race weight and crawling back fitness-wise using RDP and MAF as my guides. Up to 5 miles running and 50' Zwift rides. All targeting 130 BPM. Weight is starting to drop but I am melting in the afternoon's and energy is low. Still not eating correctly. A reminder that food is everything!
Tomorrow starts the @Scott Dinhofer "lose weight or I am going to come and kick your ass" weight loss challenge.
Peace out.
~ Stark
Any thoughts are awesome!
This is my first time attempting to be HFLC-fat burner type of athlete. I've always done fuel as you will race in the past, so its all new to me. Brenda gave me some guidance and I have started to use UCAN so I have energy for the work. I don't want to NOT be a able to maximize my workouts by nut using nutrition. But again, I am just learning this way of training (for me) and if you are more fat adapted than no fuel during sub 2 hours might just be fine!
Yesterday I used 2 scoops prior to my long run which I did trp pace, no threshold. But I knew I'd be running at 12:30pm and after only a fatty coffee. Worked great, felt great and nothing but salted water on run. No recovery drink needed, just a hand full of almonds and water for my grocery shopping and car ride home!
The take-away for me was that I love getting to that place in training because I know it's pushing my body to become more efficient and also burning a ton of fat... But there is a balancing act there as this week I did a similar but slight modified approach... I had an ALL OUT ~47 min race and then quickly hopped into a very ling ~2.5 hour group training ride. I ate a bar and actually had a shot of honey and a packet of chomps. Still only ~400 calories (my Garmin file said I burned ~3,000 calories for whatever that's worth) over the course of 4 VERY HARD hours on my bike and never had any energy lulls (my butt and legs and neck and lower back were completely sore but that's a different topic).
When you are deep in a hard workout, your body will immediately burn any of those sugar calories you dump into it, I just like to keep pushing that envelope to find out where that edge is and see if I can push it farther away (learning in training, then not coming near that line whilst racing). I also like to eat real stuff whenever I can, even on my bike. And although not completely "real" I find things like Larabars, Kind Bars and some of the Honey Stinger bars to seem "less fake" for me. They give you slightly higher fat and less pure sugars and less ingredients that I can't pronounce...
I've tried UCAN in the past but hated the chalky texture, but am going to give it another try this year. I also like the Skratch stuff and don't find their tastes so offensive. I "can" drink Gatorade all day if I need to if that's all that's available, I just choose to avoid that whenever possible.
I love pushing the envelope to see how far I can get on nothing. I'll try Skratch this year to see if I like it better. the UCAN is pretty tough to drink - but I don't plan to use on anything longer than 2.5 hours. I'm training for two 70.3s, and the first one, I don't have any time other than before my kids get up in the morning, so I won't hit 2.5 hours except for the weekend days - plenty of time to try it out.
I've never done well on race course nutrition, but I've also never had a healthy gut before.....and I do hate having to carry all of my nutrition - so much to keep track of and carry - might just try to do race course stuff on the run for my first 70.3 and grab another data point. Agreed on the 'real' food as well. Bars are better than gatorade any day.
The fat that you burn during exercise is intra-muscular triglycerides. Mobilizing it requires some carbs and staying below 70% V02.
During hard efforts fat oxidation decreases - partly do to the byproducts of lactic acid, i.e., Hydrogen ions which inhibits the enzyme needed for fat mobilization.
It's very difficult to produce ATP on fats alone ... as @John Withrow experienced first hand.
Training you body to be "fat adapted" or Metabolic Efficient, a term I prefer to use, happens mostly in daily diet.
75% diet and 25% how you train will allow you to become better at burning fat for fuel. There is no solid science behind training over 60 minutes fasted to improve fat oxidation. Doing this can set you up for loosing muscle, elevating cortisol, impair immune function, inhibit gastric hormones and enzymes to utilize carbs in a race.
A healthy approach is to periodize your carbs (real food) around the type of training you are doing. A long aerobic bike session will not required as many carbs as a hard 90 minute FTP/V02 session. For hard sessions real food is not practical. It's difficult to chew when breathing hard on a Zwift Sprint. This is where blocks, jelly beans and gummies can work.
Eating before, during, and after based on your goals will allow you to get more out of your training and therein improving performance!! The rest of the day monitor your carbs with plenty of protein (plant or animal) and fiber. This will control blood sugar and keep insulin under control. No hangry.
A last word on insulin. To keep your thyroid healthy you need some insulin for the active T3. If you are chronically underfed it will eventually show up in the health of your thyroid.
This is a topic I see all the time with clients. I'm a Sports Dietitian and trained years ago with Bob Seebohar as Metabolic Efficiency Specialist. I only say this so that you don't get the impression I'm making this stuff up!
The LCHF, low carb high fat, approach I believe is best served in the Ultra Distance community.
When you say 'some' carbs - are we talking 5-10? 20? 40? my workouts during the week are usually 1:15 (50' with sets on bike, and 25' TRP run, or 75-80'run with sets)
My last scans at my functional doc were surprising to me that I had decreased muscle and increased fat - hence the change in macros slightly. But your thoughts explain that even better. I'll restart that dialogue with my doc and see his two cents as well.
Thanks again!
We have at least 2 hours of Glycogen stores in our muscle cells so even if you were burning 0 fat, you should be able to do pretty much any intensity of workout for 90 mins without supplemental sugar. And you also don't need to refuel immediately after a workout (unless you want to be ready for a 2nd workout that day) as there are new thoughts that the magic 30 or 60 min window after a workout to refuel (with certain ratios of Carbs and Proteins) is also a bit of a myth. It is true that you will be MUCH more Insulin sensitive during or immediately after a workout. As long as you are eating appropriately (i.e. JERF) throughout the day, your Glycogen stores will replenish before the next day's workout. I also workout very early in the AM and take NO CARBS or fueling (before, during, or after) unless as I said previously that it will be a very intense, very long workout.
You mentioned that you take BCAA's which is generally just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. To try to avoid my body eating up it's own muscle, I take Amino Acids like they're candy... And I try to give it these building blocks for rebuilding from the normal training breakdown. But, I take a full spectrum of essential aminos instead of just the BCAAs. The ones I take are called Master Amino Acid Pattern which you can buy on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0081KWNHY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (but there are many competing products with almost identical profiles). I'll take 4-5 of them before a workout (with just water) and depending on the duration and expected intensity, I could take more every hour or so. But for training, I usually just take them after my workouts. There are some people (i.e. Ben Greenfield) who claim that the "bonk" that occurs during long sustained efforts (i.e. Ironman racing) actually comes from your brain sensing low blood levels of amino acids (and slowing stuff down to protect itself) and not actually just "your body running out of fuel" (which many of the traditional high carb/sugar burning thinkers claim). The truth might be somewhere in the middle, but that's probably for a different thread. So while racing, I will supplement with these MAPs throughout the day. Some of my ultra buddies do the same during their very long runs (think 8-40 hours). I tend to take more during bigger training blocks (and/or when I feel sore) and less when I'm not training as hard, but that's more art than science. Electrolytes are another part of this rather long discussion. I take a ton of Magnesium regularly and will also use salt sticks or BASE salt during long sustained workouts and/or races.
My wife also has hashimotos (and had gut and Adrenal issues) so she has been studying those like it is her job for the last several years (she has also finished 2 Ironman's and was previously an active nerd on EN). It makes a LOT of sense for you to be most concerned with gut health. Avoid gluten and grains, which can increase anti-thyroid antibodies, and along with beans/legumes, can increase gut permeability. This can help with your gut health. Bone broth (Kettle and Fire or Epic are the only two we use) and/or collagen daily can help heal the gut (my wife does both). And keep the adrenals healthy (You might ask your Functional doc what they think about Adrenal Support supplementation for you which I also happen to take https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RIEA64/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s02?ie=UTF8&th=1 ) . Methylated B Vitamins, lots of Vitamin C, and salt, salt, salt (Himalayan). You might want to read The Paleo Thyroid Solution by Elle Russ or at the least listen to Primal Blueprint podcast #131 where Elle interviews Dr. Gary Foresman.
Women's bodies are designed to resist procreation during times of stress.... higher levels of cortisol AND insulin will result in T4 being converted to Reverse T3 (as will calorie restriction), which sits in cell receptors and does NOTHING. RT3 is essentially the body's way of inhibiting procreation, and in order to preserve calories, RT3 will result in a slowed metabolism. T3 is SO important to metabolism, that bodybuilders will actually supplement with it when they want to lean out. Terrible idea, though.
Cortisol is a fat storage hormone... to tap into that stored fat for energy, the enzyme lipase (-ase = enzyme) removes the fatty acid from glycerol... and lipase is a HIGHLY hormone sensitive enzyme... insulin is a hormone that INHIBITS the action of lipase. Chronically high levels of insulin therefore, block the body's ability to utilize fat for fuel. Consumption of insulin stimulating CHO's DECREASE access to energy stored as body fat. Does that make sense? When the liver becomes insulin resistant, it can no longer convert T4 to T3 (this conversion also happens in a *healthy* gut somewhat), leading to further issues with metabolic flexibility. Typically, there's 20x more energy stored as fat vs. the max level of energy stored as CHO, so why wouldn't an athlete want the ability to tap into that?
Much of the more recent work of Tim Noakes or Phinney and Volek show that Fat Adapted athletes can burn MUCH HIGHER amounts of fat for exercise fuel than previously thought possible (and at higher intensities) because most of the earlier studies on fat burning potential (or limitations) only tested fat burning during exercise on "High Carb" athletes who's bodies weren't appropriately trained (adapted) to actually burn fat (that is my gross simplification of their results). The flip side of that coin is that there IS good reason, especially for women who want to avoid screwing up their HPA axis and ending up with the dreaded "female athlete triad," to have some CHO's. (I know this sounds conflicting and confusing, but that is the reality of this "art project" we call endurance nutrition and overall health).
I think I've rambled on enough for now... Fire away!
"Back to endurance, where for decades the conventional thinking was to carb load with your evening pasta feeds and morning cereal troughs, train super hard so you can go harder and longer without falling apart, and possibly train the body to store more glycogen (yes, it’s possible to a minor extent, but soon you will learn how irrelevant this is), and to stuff sugary drinks, gels, and cubes down your throat, hopefully without gagging. Finally, it was believed essential to stuff your face with more carbs immediately after workouts in the so-called “window of opportunity,” when your muscles can restock glycogen optimally."
"As our sophistication in training methods and health and nutrition science grows, we can all appreciate the destruction caused by eating garbage while pursuing ambitious fitness goals, especially when training patterns become chronic. The awakening is upon us, but unfortunately it seems like many athletes are stuck in the old paradigm. Sugary drinks, bars, and gels are still flying off the shelves, and the community as a whole is freely dispensing hall passes to each other and themselves to indulge in nutrient-deficient foods on account of their impressive workouts."