Dave Tallo Micro Thread
Huh ... So THIS is the micro thread. Nice place you've got here.
I'm going to avail myself of much more coaching this year. Thread created.
I'm going to avail myself of much more coaching this year. Thread created.
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I'm thinking:
m - lt run (3x1 mi @ lt)
t - easy 30' run
w - lt run (3x1 mi @ lt)
thurs - ft bike w brick
Fr - v02 bike
Sat - total rest from training
Sun - ft bike w brick
(with all the rest of the bricks, fillers, progressions etc as written).
total 7-7.5h, about 30 mi running
OK?
I am assuming 24 hours between Thursday and Friday bikes.
Note, when you have the chance use the chat button to send me access to your online training log. Would be nice to have that in the back pocket as I advise you!
Sorry ... the only log I have is offline at WKO+. What's your opinion: should I open a TP account and port my 2017 season sessions out for your viewing?
Also, you can see my season plan in the Macro thread. Summary: my continued ambitions are a sub-10 Kona.
Looking forward to our call! I'm not sure if there's any cost involved, but it's not or if it's minimal, here is a link that explains how to bulk upload workouts to training peaks: http://bit.ly/2iadd7t
You don't need a coach account by any means, you can use the red chat button at the bottom to send me your username and password so I can view that before we talk. I don't know how you log your workouts regularly, but I have my Garmin connect set to automatically transfer workouts to training peaks. It's fairly straightforward and ensures that I have a constant archive even when I don't have time to manually write the workout.
Let me know what you decide!
Hi Patrick. I’m scheduling a 5-day mini-camp in early March in FL. Your thoughts on the picture below?
Critical points:
-Occurs around 10 weeks into OS.
-I have another 8 weeks of OS/transition after I get back
-happens immediately before I move from ‘LT running’ focus, to a 6-week ‘v02 running’ focus.
-Goal is raising general fitness
-Location will give easy access to S / B / R
Your thoughts on this?
train as normal heading into block, take day before camp as travel/no training
Day 1: 2-3h bike, 1h run (ABP focus on bike, steady run)
Day 2: 2-3 h bike, 30 swim, 30 run (ABP bike, brick run. steady swim as 300s.)
Day 3: 1h bike, 1h swim (both with recovery focus)
Day 4: 3h bike, 30 run (ABP bike, brick run. steady run, if possible)
Day 5: 4h bike, 30 run, 30 swim (ABP bike, easy run, easy swim)
Bikes would be between 30-45 w/u, then ABP blocks of between 20-40 minutes with 5 minute easier recoveries. I have no FTP work planned.
Post-Camp, I will be at a conference for 3 days with run and swim opportunities, so I’ll probably take:
Day 1 post-camp off
Day 2 post-camp light aerobic swim and run (maybe 60-90 mins total)
Day 3 post-camp light aerobic swim and run (maybe 60-90 mins total)
Then back to regular OS programming.
Your reaction? Am I missing any opportunities here? Would you agree with the goals of the week, given the timing?
Here are my thoughts...and yes, OS right into a day off for travel, etc.
Day 1: 3h bike EASY..just enjoy it, get in time, etc. Sweat. 1h steady run. Consider this acclimation.
Day 2: 2.5h bike as 30' WU then rest @ ABP, 30 swim, 30 run (ABP bike for reals! Steady brick run. Swim as 300s building easy to steady.
Day 3: 1h bike, 1h swim (both with recovery focus)
Day 4: 3h bike as 30' WU then rest @ ABP, 30 run (ABP bike, brick run. steady run, if possible)
Day 5: 4h bike, 30 run, 30 swim (Steady bike with only the last hour as ABP, easy run, easy swim)
I think that should do it...ease in making easy stuff easy but the work stuff work.
Need any help with routes or anything? Let us know!
~ Coach P
Hi Patrick. The above camp went well last month, and I’m sliding into the last 5 weeks of OS. I’d like your validation / additional pointers on the following:
- objective for OS remaining weeks is to raise fitness to the highest possible level. I'll do this via a "two days hard work, one day recovery" pattern, with the goal to mnake the hard very very hard, and the recovery very easy.
-Drop a ‘mini camp’ into the later part of OS week 4 of 5. This would be 5 or 6 day, all-three-sports focus, riding in the drops on the roadie, with the hours / sessions as we did based on your ^ advice above^. Objective is raising fitness through hard, longer ABP and steady sessions.
(I seem to be responding to this kind of stim)
Then one week transition, unload fatigue, and jump onto the tri bike for 12-week build to IMCanada.
Anything to add here?
1. What is a HARD session on the bike / run?
2. It would be Nice to have some pre-/post numbers to compare. Such as FTP and vDOT?
3. I like the final kick and transition week...then it's time to talk key training sessions?
~ Coach P
Answers:
HARD sessions: I’m calling OS standard-issue VO2 Bike, V02 Run, FT Bike, or LT run ‘hard.’ Session total 1h. (alternative: do this, plus an extra 30’ at steady/MP/85%ABP after the main set.)
-If v02 bike, 15 x 1’ (1’) at 120%.
-If FTP bike, 2 x 20’@ 100%FTP (5’).
-If v02 run, </= 2.4 miles done as 6-8 x 400s with equal duration RI.
-If LT run, 3 x 8’ (4’).
If I have it in me to make them harder, I increase the work intervals duration and / or decrease the recovery intervals duration (but maintain the same overall time spent in LT/v02).
On hard bike days, follow bike by a 30-45’ EP/MP/HMP brick run. On hard run days, swim red mist or hard swim, ~ 1 hour total, 8-10 hours later in the day.
Q: This OS year, I have about 6-7 weeks of ^this^ v02 bike, done weekly, in the style of 15 x 1 (1’) at 120%. Is there any benefit to switching to, say, 5 x 3’ (3’) @ 110% for the remainder? Is it just monkeying around with the stimulus? I’m not sure if I should expect any different adaptations than were I to keep going with the above.
---—-------------/-/-
FTP is 268 (~ 3.9w/k?) and VDOT 52. After a 10+ year history of OS’s, I have NEVER been able to budge either metric during the last month to 6 weeks of OS … I always have to count on in-season to find a further 5-7 watts FTP. And VDOT never moves in that last month of OS, despite doing v02 max running.
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Nice part about that capstone camp week is having a good set of baseline scores from solo Clermont camp a few months earlier. But I’ll keep an open mind.
Day 1: 110% repeats of 4 +/- minutes at 300w. Rest as much as you want between each one (recommend 6 mins). Brick run at TRP.
Day 2: TRP run on hills (run all hills for stimulus) with some strides at the end. Swim Red Mist.
Day 3: OFF.
Three times through that...then on 4th time through, you do:
Day 1: 4 x 10' @ 280 with 5' rest. Brick run at TRP.
Day 2: 2 x 1 mile at your Threshold Run pace. Long Pull swim.
Day 3: OFF.
You should get 2x through that.
The reason why I say 110% is that you need to carry that curve left to right. So here in this picture you can see effect's of @Rich Stanbaugh Doing 5' intervals...I'd imagine the same thing happening for you at 120%....so now let's do some 110%...and then a few 100%....as you'll be mostly 100% in season regardless....
Let me know what you think!
~ Coach P
Overall it makes sense. And I'm down for a vo2 block instead of trying to blend ft and vo2 and raise all boats.
Two questions:
-maximum accumulated time, per workout, I should spent in 110% workbouts? I am guessing a total of 15' max?
-can I do a vo2 run instead of the TRP run, say, about once a week? I think there is still some ceiling that I have to reach.
thanks for the power curve from Rich. I'd love to see a year over year shift across the whole curve ... right now I mostly overlap previous years', with the exception of 5-15 wattt improvements at durations of 10minutes and up. And this years curve sags behind in durations between 2 and 9 minutes, but I'm not worried there ... I just haven't done shorter intervals to 'work' that duration this time around. Specificity, baby!
Post some pictures when you get the chance!!
~ Coach P
I really wanted HRV to be a silver bullet, but either my tech, or the application to training, is not quite there. Like when my Polar Power Meter that told me I put out 360 average watts over 6 plus hours in 2006 ironman France ... I love the idea of that data, but it wasn't ready for prime time!
I think HRV is so tough because every heart beat is unique. I think watts are watts, but heart rate is so affected by so many external factors plus your training load not to mention your history in the sport. My 190lb 43 yo HR of 145 is very different simply because I have done 20 years of endurance training.
Or to put it another way, Heart Rate is as effective as a mystical power..when I am in tune with it, I can transcend what I think is possible. When I am out of tune..fugheddaboutit. #gameover
Above intensity plan caught up with me. Lost the later part of last week and the weekend in full-on overreached mode, so my consistency took a hit. I knew that's what could happen when I dance with the intensity devil!
But, I'm still on the pursuit of the goal of 'best fitness by end of OS,' I'll continue this intensity block with a continued and daily calibration of risk/reward.
Just wrapping up on ^this^ "intensity block" , and that will be the end of the OS for me. On Thursday, I will be moving into a camp weekend ... we'll probably hop a flight or something to Tremblant or Lake Placid (or maybe AZ) to give a solid training block of Thurs - Mon. Raising fitness is biggest objective. When we did something similar a few months ago (in mid OS), it looked like this:
Day 1: 3h bike EASY..just enjoy it, get in time, etc. Sweat. 1h steady run.
Day 2: 2.5h bike as 30' WU then rest @ ABP, 30 swim, 30 run (ABP bike for reals! Steady brick run. Swim as 300s building easy to steady.
Day 3: 1h bike, 1h swim (both with recovery focus)
Day 4: 3h bike as 30' WU then rest @ ABP, 30 run (ABP bike, brick run. steady run, if possible)
Day 5: 4h bike, 30 run, 30 swim (Steady bike with only the last hour as ABP, easy run, easy swim)
I liked the adaptations that come from this a lot. Permission to proceed? This will get followed by a Resting/Transition/Testing week, and then into In-season training.
And when did you last do it? I'd be curious to peek at the adaptations there if it's in training peaks...
Sorry so late,
~ Coach P
Last ~28 day highlights
-did final intensity block discussed above. Pushed through some flameouts. Backed off on a few days entirely. But overall success! Best os power curve ever!
-arrived at camp weekend described above rested and ready.
-5 day camp described above. Success! Finished Monday having hit every session.
Last 7 days
-3 days of complete inability to train after camp. zero interest in any type of Work. This is a first, post camp.
-tried running Friday. 11:00 min miles. Swam 10 min ... complete neuromuscular disaster.
-easy run and bike (z1) sat. Looked only at hr to make sure it was low.
-All of this is surprising, as I've done many camps in the past that were longer, harder, or I had carried more acute fatigue into.
Net: As of today, one week later, experiencing "biggest overreaching/"overtraining"" effect ever.
Week ahead
- I was supposed to start week 1 of (14 week) prep for IM Canada.
-instead, I'm bumping that by a full week and treating this current state like an injury
-playing everything day by day this week - if I don't train, I'm ok with that.
-best case would be easy ae efforts daily, regulated by heart rate monitor/rpe
-will re-evaluate everything next Sunday.
From the above, Is there anything jumping out at you that I should pay particular attention to?
(edit: I did all of the above after fully assuming the risk of training near or on the edge ... and sometimes it hits the target, and sometimes it blows up spectacularly!)
OS + Big Camp is always tough...that's a double whammy.
Could just be fatigue. Could be old age. Could be you needed a bit more rest. Could be a bigger issue we can't see right now.
The good news is you've done so much work that resting now isn't that much of an issue (unless that ice cream collection is calling your name!). Rest it up and let's see where you are at by this weekend.
Put the time into some core and flexibility, okay?
~ Coach P
Dave mentioned above wanting to see a year-over-year shift on the power curve. That is what I work towards too. I use the curve to choose the intensity and the duration of my intervals (both long and short intervals). FWIW - here is a comparison of my 2015 and my 2016 years using this approach. Sorry the graph is a little mess because of he comparison, but if you make the picture better, you can see the shift. Especially notice the shift in NP at 5 hours. ((I do my rides on the road, and have to deal with traffic lights etc on the long rides. WKO4 counts every second while making the mmp curve, but uses moving time for the NP curve. That is shy the difference is so massive between mmp and NP at 5 hours)).
On Wednesday's, I choose point on curve where my mmp is less than the PD curve for short durations, powers above VO2 and do intervals there. I try to ride the intervals at maximal effort, with a long (5+ minutes) recovery between them so that I can accumulate as much time above VO2 power (as determined by WKO4) as possible. Saturday rides I points where the mmp curve is below the PD curve for long intervals. Early season, long may mean 15-20 minutes. Later season, I will do a daw with a 60m, 45m and 2x20m intervals. Like before, I choose a target power based on trying to drive the mmp curve above the PDC.
- IF your VO2 / 3' power is 317w, do you go out and do 3' intervals harder than that to drive it up?
- Similarly, as you move to Threshold (20' work) do you take 261 (current) and ride at 265 or 270.
I am trying to get a sense of the actual targets you are using.
I am struggling to learn what Coggin and Cusick are teaching on this topic. I follow the WKO4 Power Users forum on Facebook every day because questions like yours are discussed by some pretty knowledgeable coaches and athletes that are trying to learn also.
Coggin has developed 'iLevels' that are training zones that are individual to each rider. In the past, all our training zones were based on a % of estimated FTP. They have moved completely away from that. The new zones are determined based on the shape of your PD (Power Duration) curve. Each iLevel represents a particular 'energy source' and each iLevel has a range of power and times at that power.
Depending on what my training goals are, I choose a different iLevel and a different power/time at power combination for the intervals. Here are my current iLevels:
I know that one of my weaknesses as a cyclist is the ability to blast over a hill and then recover. I know that we don't do this in Ironman, but the ability to pop over a hill without burning too many matches is still relevant. In terms of the iLevels, I am talking about developing my anaerobic capacity - this is called FRC (Functional Reserve Capacity) in hte Coggin world. That metric represents the amount of work you can do above FTP.
My iLevels prescribe 358-551w from 1:39 to 0:29. There is another chart in WKO4 where Cusick turned these into workouts. You can see below, that he would prescribe that in order to improve my FRC, I do 4 - 8 reps targeting 435w with the goal of accumulating 4 - 12 minutes in the FRC zone.
If I am targeting intervals to improve my VO2, I am going to try to accumulate time above VO2. Not just one killer interval that pushes the chart up - that would be a test. Rather, I would target my FTP/FRC, FRC and Pmax/FRC iLevels by doing intervals like those prescribed above.
Here is a visualization of the iLevels vs the PD Curve. You can see that since everyone has a unique PD Curve, everyone will have unique iLevels