Hi Patrick. I’m progressing well enough towards IM Canada (Jul 30) with ~8 weeks of training remaining.
Two things:
-Bike power curve is where it should be … and a shade better than 2014 (which I consider a “strong bike year” personal benchmark). I’d like to hear your thoughts on this: for the remainder of the race prep, I will continue to include FTP, long and abp rides in my week as in the plan, but SPECIFICALLY target my achieved 1-60min power curve from the 2014 training season, by creating interval durations in my ABP and FTP workouts that would try to move the FTP-relevant part of that curve, for the same period, to the right. So, w/o’s might be something like 7x (6’1) FTP … or a 1hr TT in the second hour of an ABP … (the theory behind this is there’s never a high enough FTP, even In-season, so this notionally tries to push ongoing adaptations to it … with the knock-on goal of faster long stuff). Thoughts?
-Run … 2017 me doesn’t have the pure speed of the younger me. I’m thinking final interventions in-season … by following the established pattern of run w/o’s, but done with shorter “Cruise interval” LT paces as, say, 6 x 4’(1’) on LT day, for a few weeks, and breaking down prescribed z3 work on Brick run day to shorter 3 or 4 5-8 min HMP intervals (with short recoveries). The thinking is accumulating the same amount of time at LT … just shorter workbouts, hopefully at slightly faster paces. Or … instead of a 2.25-2.5h long run every week, doing alternate weeks, with odd weeks being the long slog, and even weeks, a balls-to-the-wall HMP 90’ session. Your reaction?
@Dave Tallo - from what I'm hearing from your teammates, there is no slowing down of speed or work! I hope that the recovery and balance for me and strong.
I like your approach on both areas, smarter is the new fast. However, a visual or screenshot it should be nice to see the comparison of your '14 to this year's FTP. This is the smart way to go, and however you need to hack it, let's do it. I would greatly prefer a week where the FTP session is designed to raise any power numbers under 20 minutes and duration, and your ADP power rides look to raise your 2 to 2 1/2 hour power. I don't really care for any hard work or goals during your long ride. We need to make room for what you're doing earlier in the week on the Bike, so by necessity these long rides would be in the aero bars steady-state great nutrition and looking at a salad last hour. If you want to go out to crush a five hour ride, not required or recommended, then you would have to dial things down that week and the other sessions. Perhaps best saving this for the final big bike week.
Remember, everyone else is also slowing down. Just like race day, your job is to slow down less! You have already proven and uncanny ability to do that on race day by finding extra seconds with your equipment and eight station strategy. How much you want to roll the dice to get that threshold run speed up there it's really up to you. Personally this close to race, I prefer zone two to zone three hill work as a great means of getting stronger on the run without endangering your run infrastructure. I would complement that with plenty of strides in every session and one day of run intervals in the sub four minute range a/ good recovery.
No 90 minute TT session please on the run. You are free to break up the LT across your week for sure, but if you concentrated into one session I don't think it's that bad. If your week is truly free, I would recommend splitting that long run into two separate sessions. In the past I have had success with a 90 minute run on Wednesdays and another 90 minute run on Sundays. I'm able to do both of these runs at a faster pace than I would've been able to do one long single run. But by faster, I mean upper zone two low zone three versus TRP pace… It's an incremental improvement but it adds up.
The big caveat here is that you can't crash the bike and the run simultaneously while you're also building the volume. Pick one, stick it then be confident in your race skills and savvy to make it happen on race day.
@Dave Tallo there is no denying that Siri truly hates me. That said, it could also be the fact that I'm watching my own body composition, and its some kind of Freudian slip. There will be no salad on the course, of course, but I would like you to focus on a "strong" last hour!
Hi Patrick.
I’ll make this a “take it away and percolate” question:
At 7 weeks out from an A race, with a goal of a
strong AG performance, what do you suggest my top three priorities should be?
(I have some guesses of your answers based on our
chatter this season, but thought I would put the question out there, in this
form, to focus my thinking.)
@david tallo thanks for reaching out! Everything here is going great, just slightly busier than normal. :-) Nothing that an Iron Man can't handle.
I love the question. Given your history of the sport and you're likely goals on race day here is what I would recommend:
1: swim bike brake workouts. At least once a week, get in a 2.4 mile swim followed by a 2 1/2 to 3 hour bike at half Iron Man intensity. This is a killer session, it really helps you accelerate moving from the swim to a solid bike.
2: course specific cycling. If you are able to mimic the conditions you will see on race day, it's great for you to get comfortable with that type of work which she will see on race day. Seek out commence are at elevation and conditions (a.k.a. time of day). Really work on finding all of the available free speed as you improve your focus at the end of each of these rides with a solid last 90 minutes.
3: I could say something here about body composition (you don't have to worry about that) or running but I think it's more important to have you maintain a focus on quality sessions versus more volume. This "late" in your season, you will have significant fatigue on your legs and could easily tip the scales against a great performance if you continue to seek out more time to train versus allowing Foraste and keeping the quality of each session hire.
For example, I would gladly trade a six hour ride at .7 IF for a four hour ride at .75 IF. I am constantly amazed at how much better my workouts are each week when I am forced to take a day off because of circumstances.
Thanks - the outside counsel is really helpful now that Ièm in the house of mirrors of 6 weeks out ... everything is distorted and nothing is as it seems. I think the priority exercise is a good one, if only to move out of the mode where Everything Is Important, and bring some focus into the game. As I start to elevate everything, then I end up elevating nothing. So priorities help.
Appreciate the thought you gave to this. Everything is on track, and the power curve is between 5-12 watts better for 5min to 5 hours than my best year benchmark. This goes a long way in building confidence.
One more volume bump over the Independence Day weekend. Done this for 12 years, and it seems to suit me.
Keep well and keep healthy - chat soon and let me know if there are an EN things I can be doing (Im not taking up snowshoeing if we really are broadening our focus beyond Tri).
Hey Patrick! Hope you’re doing well and have your sights zeroing in on Tremblant.
I’m looking for your thoughts on the plan below for IM Louisville. I just did IM Canada, and have 10 weeks, with the main points as:
-going hard, not (as much) long.
-get run back to respectable level.
-Preserve FTP and 5h power.
Mentally and physically, I’m fresh and ready to hit it hard. An extra 8 pounds that is literally all recovery week ice cream, but this will disappear soon.
Rebuilding the run piece is critical for my success – until the last few years, I had ~15 IM runs in the 3:30’s, but the last few have been … slow. A few weeks ago, IM Canada was a terrible 4:04: bike and run execution were perfect, but the slower run time just reflected overall decreased run speed.
Here’s my game plan:
·Compulsory day off per week - yoga or stretching
·Swim
oContinue swim ‘red mist’ progression / Mike Roberts plan
o3 swim per week (adding 4thlater in build)
otry to get from current 1:35 to 1:32/100m red mist
·run
o6 x running/week
oGoal is overall faster running, all paces.
oWeeks 1-6: LT and HMP (1 x per week each - on rested, recovered legs.)
oWeeks 7 – 10: HMP focus (as 2 x 1.5 per week, increasing intensity)
oHillier terrain, starting around wk 5/6
ostrides every session
oon early longer /EP runs, walk-run 8/2 (at faster than normal pace)
·Bike
ofollowing “ride hard, not long” model:
oRoad bike weeks 1-6, tri bike week 7-10
oMidweek FTP session throughout – target of keeping current 8’ - 20’ power
oWeeks 1-6: 3-3.5h hard Saturday ride (cap of 250tss), 2.5-3h abp Sunday ride.
@Dave Tallo - tell me more. That's way too big of a decline to be natural. Could you be too tired from the load / massive build? Bad taper? Bad nutrition?
IOW if you aren't seeing a big decline in your training pace (which you'd be aware of) then why on race day? Let's unpack this first before we get prescriptive.
Subjectively, got off the bike
feeling “very good.” Best I’ve felt coming off an IM bike in a long
time.
TSS of 250, no HR dropoff (in
fact, increased in last 2 h due to long climb; avg 145 in last hour).
Nothing different in swim or bike
No environmental factors (heat/humidity) to note
Nutrition
Followed as in prev races
Last hour of bike is a zone 3
climb where I might have benefitted from more calories, but I don’t think this
emptied the tanks
Taper
Very rested in race week
Third last week of training was
bigger volume than normal, following advice in current Advanced plans (will
dial this back for IM Lou)
Overall fatigue
Bigger volumes (avg 19-20h/week)
for the last months of building, but nothing unusual.
Across season, dug numerous
intensity holes, but came out of them well enough.
Came into the race with best bike
fitness in ~5 years
Run
paces in training were slower
than past years, but more in the range of 5-10s per mile. Achieved LT paces in training. Year over year comparisons of in-season long
runs showed I was slower this year, but again, not in the order of the 1:00 /
mile drop off I saw on race day
Did much more running based on HR
and RPE in the build to the race this year
- and paid less attention to live monitoring of pace. I am curious if I have gradually down-regulated
my paces in training to be slower across the board
On race day, execution was a
model of EN perfection … just 1:00/mile slower at every stage than before. Ran by HR and RPE, with miles 1-6 < 140bpm,
miles 6-18 = 140-146, miles 18-26 =155–165.
No pace drop-off over last 6 miles.
Negative split.
@Dave Tallo thanks for hearing me out. So a few things:
1) I would love to get a visual on the data. I don't think you are on Strava but if you give me access to something or I can see visualizations of your race and Your Key workouts that would be great.
2) One of the reasons why I brought this up is because this is happened to you in the past. Train hard and long, have a subpar race, recover and change your training and qualify. I'm just wondering if we can cut out the first part or reduce it and stick to the stuff that seems to work? I see that with a smile on my face.
3) you train a lot. While you might be following our ADV plan build in the last 5 weeks....doing 19-20 hours for months.....plus top-secret AZ sessions with Tim...this is not our normal build.
I am not saying that either way, I am just saying it. That is a lot of work to sustain across a long period of time and still want to be sharp on race day. I certainly don't live in that zone so I'm not sure the best way to manage that type of work, but I am interested in helping you out. just so I don't leave you hanging, here are my thoughts for next steps:
*first you need to rest and swimming is fine during that time just to get lives.
*I don't want you to do more than three swims a week. I don't see the point unless you're in the final 14 days to race at which point you can go nutso. One red mist, on speed, only long steady swim.
* running 6x is good but you have to get into a gradually. I don't want to faster running across the board but I will settle for strides at the end of every session that is in specifically speed. I personally like the four or five x 3" @ Z5 (2' rest) work out as it's effective and short and sweet. Perhaps instead of a long run you can do more Zone three tempo intervals? But really no more than two quality runs.
*I'm very excited about your bike plan because that's what I really think you need to. I say road bike for five weeks tri bike for five. Early weekend rides both capped at 3 hours. You can do more work in that time but not more time. Enjoy long easy rides over Labor Day....nothing hard unless it's going over a hill.
Hi Patrick – thanks for all that. The three groups in your note:
1. You’ve dragged me onto Strava. 2016 data is all yours for the glancing - I'll give you access later tonight.
2. Big picture stuff: I hear you and pick up what you’re droppin’; let’s talk about this bigger coachability / compliance issue by phone in the next few weeks or even after Lou/Kona. I’ll set up a call.
3. IM Lou build: that feedback is just what I need – thanks. 6 runs per week, 2 quality sessions max, is exactly what I have in mind. Are you ok with me doing brick runs at no faster than EP? I feel like, at this time in the season, the normal prescribed z3/z4 brick run might be too much Sizzle ... whereas I agree that putting in weekly 4xEP, 2xquality, would be the Steak to that Sizzle. This is pretty much boilerplate from Daniels.
that's a good TP workout you outline. it's like Daniels' Cruise intervals ... 5-6 x 1000s, with 1 min recovery. This collects a lot of time at LT (from interval 2 onwards) by making a quick ramp up in each interval, but gives some mental break every few minutes. I really think these would benefit a lot of athletes during their IM build ... they are a sly way of getting work done ... particularly after slogging through longer LT Sets earlier in the year.
Really hope you have a great race in Tremblant - I know how long of a road back it has been, and I'm happy you'll be getting out on the field again. And don't fall for that "We discontinued the penny" trick while you're here in Canada - that's a scam we pull on American tourists.
@Dave Tallo - continuing with your theme of three:
1. I will check out your Strava later today, thank you! If you have the ability to add some of your past Races from 14 and 15 into that account that would be great as well. Not the whole season but I would like to see what you IMC look like, or Kona, etc.
2. Yes to the call. Hopefully your strap it will also give me some insight. At the end of the day sometimes our bodies ability to process the work is more of a limiter than what our capacity is for doing it.
In this most recent training build up, I have had to rely on the numbers in strategically significantly more than just training volume in order to respect the limits of my body. Of course the jury is still out, but on paper things look surprisingly good.
I'm not talking about a wholesale change, But it's likely that a few tweaks might make a big difference for you. There is simply no way you lose the benefit of your massive aerobic engine so quickly!
3. Yes, all your other runs at EP is absolutely fine. Some quality, some steady. Hopefully the data will tell me more, but for right now you are definitely in the sharpening versus building phase of your season!
great to to hear from you and thanks for your help on my Thread earlier this week.
I would work to to mimic the IMLou course:
1) smart first hour (Smooth but fast) 2) Push downhills into flats for 3 hours, very smart here. Easy spin up them. 3) really TT the last 30-ish miles at slightly lower RPMs to simulate the "gap" creation on race day. Build the HR here and hold it.
Have you run the course thru Best Bike split? Curious what is says for you....let me know if you need a login.
You are ready to be fast for sure, it's just allocating the effort such that your run is the best it can be!
Thanks Patrick. BBS modelled me a 5:25 for IM Canada, and I executed (my own way, not bbs power cues) to a 5:25. Including 39 minutes coasting at zero watts (no joke).
Using the same inputs, BBS gives me 5:15 in Louisville. I might dial back my effort though ... I'm going to monkey around with power zones in the weeks ahead. It's All about the run!
@Dave Tallo - Out of curiosity, what was your TSS from that right? I think you are a lot faster than you currently ride at and if we can access that speech on race day he could put you in a different ZIP Code of the run.
I don't think you're necessarily affected by a slow bike or buyer positioning on the run, but I have to believe there is some interval momentum generated from coming off the bike in a really fast time.
I also think that there may be a consequence for having a lower TSS then is desired what heading out on the run. Although something like starting the run "cold."
Wanted to shoot me some stats over here when you get a chance or for the love of God give me some kind of training peaks or Strava so I can see your data for once. I feel like this is so karate kid the way we're working on it. :-)
All plans scrubbed, back to the drawing board. I’ve had a calf injury since we talked in mid-December.
im thinking of taking the time to make sure this heals right, get a solid month of rebuilding running through feb, and starting OS in March. I guess that puts me to IM wisconsin, done as OS for 12 weeks march - May, and in-season for 12 weeks of June - August?
That’ll Work just fine, it just depends how quickly you can heal. Kevin trees are tricky because it’s how you injure them that matters. If it’s something like a freak accident around the house that’s one thing, if it was a running thing with another. So let me know about that.
work just fine, it just depends how quickly you can heal. Kevin trees are tricky because it’s how you injure them that matters. If it’s something like a freak accident around the house that’s one thing, if it was a running thing with another. So let me know about that.
Also there’s a great deal of research that shows calf issues are related specifically to hamstrings and hip functional movement. So as you work to get better remember that it’s not just the point of the problem but likely the manifestation of a larger set of symptoms.
As you work to get better remember that it’s not just the point of the problem but likely the manifestation of a larger set of symptoms.
I hope you’re able to be on the bike to stay aerobically fit as you nurse the calf back to health.
All healed. The calf injury was a result of a weights block, and overloading the calf by placing my feet too low on the platform of a leg press sled, which resulted in a far-too-acute knee angle under maximum load.
checking in to see if I remain on the right track, big picture.
-A race = tremblant or Wisconsin. Then either Kona or a few low-key IMs.
-goal is to get back to a 330-335 run For the “A”
-here’s what I’m up to - this is mostly what we discussed in November:
Run is very very easy, goal is build up and then stay at a large weekly mileage without breakdown. Im at/ Should be able to sustain 45mi/week of very very easy for mid-feb, continued through April. Maybe include 1day ‘hard’ starting March. Then traditional EN OS run starting in mid-April through May (so, effectively a 6week run focus), and then onto IM build June, July, Aug.
Bike is easy, 4x week, until March, then OS bike-focus plan March-April-May. Backing off a bit in May to enable best possible running. Then IM Build June, July, Aug.
Swim is 2x week EZ in Feb, 3x in March/April as 1 endurance, 1 speed (50s, onto 100s), and 1 form. Starting May and until race, 3x week as Mike Roberts/Red Mist Get Faster program. A few 4x weeks at 2-3 weeks before race.
1 weights, 3 core per week now and forever.
Might do an epic camp in april or May, as long as it doesn’t interfere / undermine running.
I am glad to hear that you are back on track with your calf. That can be really tricky, and, despite your recovery, should still be on your radar for the rest of the season. Those injuries don’t just “go away.”
My only feedback for you is that I don’t believe you need to do 45 miles a week this early in the year. I think there’s a baseline level of running that’s helpful for you, in terms of staying fit. On top of that we have specific interval we work we do to make you stronger. But if you have “extra time” I would vastly prefer that you invest it on the bike then on the run. In other words, 30 to 35 miles running a week is more than enough right now for an August race.
Thanks Patrick. I'll bet that the 35mi/wk is probably going to a naturally-occurring phenomenon once I begin harder biking in March, so you're going to end up being right.
My intention behind the 45/wk was leaving nu run stone unturned. To Not go Gentle into that good night. Since my run fell off a cliff a few years ago, I've tried status quo, excessive rest, excessive speed, 80/20, 'less is more,' 'rest is more,' and a long list of other bigger-picture strategies. This is just another, in the spirit of "more running volume = more run-specific training stress = faster Dave. What makes it interesting is when I look at logs for the last 20 years, I've been unable / unwilling to go above a general level of mileage/wk, and ^this^ approach, I figured, was a way to breakthrough that ceiling in an effort to breakthrough as a runner.
But again, I gotcha and will abide. Thanks for the response and notes.
@Dave Tallo well, you know I do have a run at this focus on return on investment. I need to find a way to merge that with your concerns about the run. I do believe that building the run engine first is the best approach for you right now. I would rather do that focus and then get you Ironman RaceReady during the traditional build without the need to develop deep run speed that you want on race day. In other words, it would be nicer to be able to maintain the run speed by race prep.
can you tell me what insights you’re getting from your run training right now? And what some interim goals would be for May in terms of run fitness? In other words, how fast do you need to be able to run an Iron Man to be successful?
-you have me on the "improve 10"-3' power plan" for the next 6 weeks and wanted to monitor the targets. You set these as of 05/06/20 as
10” = 550
30” = 400
1’ = 310
90” = 285
3’ = 255
All have been doable and I've used these as baselines , but pushed the numbers higher where possible using modelled 10' 30' 90' from my PMC. I've been able to sustain the numbers between the first and last sets(s).
Also bought a stryd as suggested and have a few runs' worth of data (as well as a Critical Power number). interesting stuff!
It's interesting to me is how consistent you are between 90 seconds in five minutes. It's affectively the same power. In order for us to extend that five minute power out to the 10 minute window and beyond, we're gonna have to rent raise the 1.5 minute and three minute powers, hence the changes here:
Adjustments if the workout allow for them.
1’ = 360
90” = 300
3’ = 285
As for Stryd, keep gathering that data, can't wait to take a look at it!keep gathering that data, can't wait to take a look at it!
Comments
Hi Patrick. I’m progressing well enough towards IM Canada (Jul 30) with ~8 weeks of training remaining.
Two things:
-Bike power curve is where it should be … and a shade better than 2014 (which I consider a “strong bike year” personal benchmark). I’d like to hear your thoughts on this: for the remainder of the race prep, I will continue to include FTP, long and abp rides in my week as in the plan, but SPECIFICALLY target my achieved 1-60min power curve from the 2014 training season, by creating interval durations in my ABP and FTP workouts that would try to move the FTP-relevant part of that curve, for the same period, to the right. So, w/o’s might be something like 7x (6’1) FTP … or a 1hr TT in the second hour of an ABP … (the theory behind this is there’s never a high enough FTP, even In-season, so this notionally tries to push ongoing adaptations to it … with the knock-on goal of faster long stuff). Thoughts?
-Run … 2017 me doesn’t have the pure speed of the younger me. I’m thinking final interventions in-season … by following the established pattern of run w/o’s, but done with shorter “Cruise interval” LT paces as, say, 6 x 4’(1’) on LT day, for a few weeks, and breaking down prescribed z3 work on Brick run day to shorter 3 or 4 5-8 min HMP intervals (with short recoveries). The thinking is accumulating the same amount of time at LT … just shorter workbouts, hopefully at slightly faster paces. Or … instead of a 2.25-2.5h long run every week, doing alternate weeks, with odd weeks being the long slog, and even weeks, a balls-to-the-wall HMP 90’ session. Your reaction?
No 90 minute TT session please on the run. You are free to break up the LT across your week for sure, but if you concentrated into one session I don't think it's that bad. If your week is truly free, I would recommend splitting that long run into two separate sessions. In the past I have had success with a 90 minute run on Wednesdays and another 90 minute run on Sundays. I'm able to do both of these runs at a faster pace than I would've been able to do one long single run. But by faster, I mean upper zone two low zone three versus TRP pace… It's an incremental improvement but it adds up.
The big caveat here is that you can't crash the bike and the run simultaneously while you're also building the volume. Pick one, stick it then be confident in your race skills and savvy to make it happen on race day.
Thanks Patrick - I appreciate this and will adjust my thinking. And I think your voice-dictation responses might be my New Favorite Thing:
" ... so by necessity these long rides would be in the aero bars steady-state great nutrition and looking at a salad last hour."
Q: will there be salad stations on course?
Hi Patrick. I’ll make this a “take it away and percolate” question:
At 7 weeks out from an A race, with a goal of a strong AG performance, what do you suggest my top three priorities should be?
(I have some guesses of your answers based on our chatter this season, but thought I would put the question out there, in this form, to focus my thinking.)
Things good with you?1: swim bike brake workouts. At least once a week, get in a 2.4 mile swim followed by a 2 1/2 to 3 hour bike at half Iron Man intensity. This is a killer session, it really helps you accelerate moving from the swim to a solid bike.
3: I could say something here about body composition (you don't have to worry about that) or running but I think it's more important to have you maintain a focus on quality sessions versus more volume. This "late" in your season, you will have significant fatigue on your legs and could easily tip the scales against a great performance if you continue to seek out more time to train versus allowing Foraste and keeping the quality of each session hire.
Appreciate the thought you gave to this. Everything is on track, and the power curve is between 5-12 watts better for 5min to 5 hours than my best year benchmark. This goes a long way in building confidence.
One more volume bump over the Independence Day weekend. Done this for 12 years, and it seems to suit me.
Keep well and keep healthy - chat soon and let me know if there are an EN things I can be doing (Im not taking up snowshoeing if we really are broadening our focus beyond Tri).
I will surely keep you posted about EN. Check back in with me with two weeks to go!
Hey Patrick! Hope you’re doing well and have your sights zeroing in on Tremblant.
I’m looking for your thoughts on the plan below for IM Louisville. I just did IM Canada, and have 10 weeks, with the main points as:
-going hard, not (as much) long.
-get run back to respectable level.
-Preserve FTP and 5h power.
Mentally and physically, I’m fresh and ready to hit it hard. An extra 8 pounds that is literally all recovery week ice cream, but this will disappear soon.
Rebuilding the run piece is critical for my success – until the last few years, I had ~15 IM runs in the 3:30’s, but the last few have been … slow. A few weeks ago, IM Canada was a terrible 4:04: bike and run execution were perfect, but the slower run time just reflected overall decreased run speed.
Here’s my game plan:
· Compulsory day off per week - yoga or stretching
· Swim
o Continue swim ‘red mist’ progression / Mike Roberts plan
o 3 swim per week (adding 4thlater in build)
o try to get from current 1:35 to 1:32/100m red mist
· run
o 6 x running/week
o Goal is overall faster running, all paces.
o Weeks 1-6: LT and HMP (1 x per week each - on rested, recovered legs.)
o Weeks 7 – 10: HMP focus (as 2 x 1.5 per week, increasing intensity)
o Hillier terrain, starting around wk 5/6
o strides every session
o on early longer /EP runs, walk-run 8/2 (at faster than normal pace)
· Bike
o following “ride hard, not long” model:
o Road bike weeks 1-6, tri bike week 7-10
o Midweek FTP session throughout – target of keeping current 8’ - 20’ power
o Weeks 1-6: 3-3.5h hard Saturday ride (cap of 250tss), 2.5-3h abp Sunday ride.
o Week 4: 2-3 long (5h) rides on Labor Day weekend
o weeks 6, 8: long (5h) rides on weekend
· 3 x core / stretch sessions weekly
· Weeks 5, 9 - reduce overall volume (by ~50%)
· Week 4 - Big balanced week
Thoughts? Need any more info?
IOW if you aren't seeing a big decline in your training pace (which you'd be aware of) then why on race day? Let's unpack this first before we get prescriptive.
Thanks for digging deeper on this.
Data points from race day:
Subjectively, got off the bike feeling “very good.” Best I’ve felt coming off an IM bike in a long time.
TSS of 250, no HR dropoff (in fact, increased in last 2 h due to long climb; avg 145 in last hour).
Nothing different in swim or bike
No environmental factors (heat/humidity) to note
Nutrition
Followed as in prev races
Last hour of bike is a zone 3 climb where I might have benefitted from more calories, but I don’t think this emptied the tanks
Taper
Very rested in race week
Third last week of training was bigger volume than normal, following advice in current Advanced plans (will dial this back for IM Lou)
Overall fatigue
Bigger volumes (avg 19-20h/week) for the last months of building, but nothing unusual.
Across season, dug numerous intensity holes, but came out of them well enough.
Came into the race with best bike fitness in ~5 years
Run
paces in training were slower than past years, but more in the range of 5-10s per mile. Achieved LT paces in training. Year over year comparisons of in-season long runs showed I was slower this year, but again, not in the order of the 1:00 / mile drop off I saw on race day
Did much more running based on HR and RPE in the build to the race this year - and paid less attention to live monitoring of pace. I am curious if I have gradually down-regulated my paces in training to be slower across the board
On race day, execution was a model of EN perfection … just 1:00/mile slower at every stage than before. Ran by HR and RPE, with miles 1-6 < 140bpm, miles 6-18 = 140-146, miles 18-26 =155–165. No pace drop-off over last 6 miles. Negative split.
I am not saying that either way, I am just saying it. That is a lot of work to sustain across a long period of time and still want to be sharp on race day. I certainly don't live in that zone so I'm not sure the best way to manage that type of work, but I am interested in helping you out. just so I don't leave you hanging, here are my thoughts for next steps:
* running 6x is good but you have to get into a gradually. I don't want to faster running across the board but I will settle for strides at the end of every session that is in specifically speed. I personally like the four or five x 3" @ Z5 (2' rest) work out as it's effective and short and sweet. Perhaps instead of a long run you can do more Zone three tempo intervals? But really no more than two quality runs.
*I'm very excited about your bike plan because that's what I really think you need to. I say road bike for five weeks tri bike for five. Early weekend rides both capped at 3 hours. You can do more work in that time but not more time. Enjoy long easy rides over Labor Day....nothing hard unless it's going over a hill.
Keep me posted!
~ Coach P
Hi Patrick – thanks for all that. The three groups in your note:
1. You’ve dragged me onto Strava. 2016 data is all yours for the glancing - I'll give you access later tonight.
2. Big picture stuff: I hear you and pick up what you’re droppin’; let’s talk about this bigger coachability / compliance issue by phone in the next few weeks or even after Lou/Kona. I’ll set up a call.
3. IM Lou build: that feedback is just what I need – thanks. 6 runs per week, 2 quality sessions max, is exactly what I have in mind. Are you ok with me doing brick runs at no faster than EP? I feel like, at this time in the season, the normal prescribed z3/z4 brick run might be too much Sizzle ... whereas I agree that putting in weekly 4xEP, 2xquality, would be the Steak to that Sizzle. This is pretty much boilerplate from Daniels.
that's a good TP workout you outline. it's like Daniels' Cruise intervals ... 5-6 x 1000s, with 1 min recovery. This collects a lot of time at LT (from interval 2 onwards) by making a quick ramp up in each interval, but gives some mental break every few minutes. I really think these would benefit a lot of athletes during their IM build ... they are a sly way of getting work done ... particularly after slogging through longer LT Sets earlier in the year.
Really hope you have a great race in Tremblant - I know how long of a road back it has been, and I'm happy you'll be getting out on the field again. And don't fall for that "We discontinued the penny" trick while you're here in Canada - that's a scam we pull on American tourists.
2. Yes to the call. Hopefully your strap it will also give me some insight. At the end of the day sometimes our bodies ability to process the work is more of a limiter than what our capacity is for doing it.
In this most recent training build up, I have had to rely on the numbers in strategically significantly more than just training volume in order to respect the limits of my body. Of course the jury is still out, but on paper things look surprisingly good.
I'm not talking about a wholesale change, But it's likely that a few tweaks might make a big difference for you. There is simply no way you lose the benefit of your massive aerobic engine so quickly!
3. Yes, all your other runs at EP is absolutely fine. Some quality, some steady. Hopefully the data will tell me more, but for right now you are definitely in the sharpening versus building phase of your season!
Ps - thank you for the bonus tourism tip!
-this weekend will be 2x long rides ... my only long rides between IMCan and Lou. Thoughts on their composition?
-are you going to be running the "en elite" additional pay service, going forward? Thinking about some one on one work in 2018.
great to to hear from you and thanks for your help on my Thread earlier this week.
I would work to to mimic the IMLou course:
1) smart first hour (Smooth but fast)
2) Push downhills into flats for 3 hours, very smart here. Easy spin up them.
3) really TT the last 30-ish miles at slightly lower RPMs to simulate the "gap" creation on race day. Build the HR here and hold it.
Have you run the course thru Best Bike split? Curious what is says for you....let me know if you
need a login.
You are ready to be fast for sure, it's just allocating the effort such that your run is the best it can be!
Using the same inputs, BBS gives me 5:15 in Louisville. I might dial back my effort though ... I'm going to monkey around with power zones in the weeks ahead. It's All about the run!
Strava is here. https://www.strava.com/athletes/10821678/training/log.
IM Canada Bike TSS was 251, IF .68 (but I think these numbers don't mean much, because they are based on an overestimate of my FTP).
Picking up on your post above, I'd love to hear your thoughts, and I'm listening!
Back on this thread after our December talk.
All plans scrubbed, back to the drawing board. I’ve had a calf injury since we talked in mid-December.
im thinking of taking the time to make sure this heals right, get a solid month of rebuilding running through feb, and starting OS in March. I guess that puts me to IM wisconsin, done as OS for 12 weeks march - May, and in-season for 12 weeks of June - August?
thoughts?
That’ll Work just fine, it just depends how quickly you can heal. Kevin trees are tricky because it’s how you injure them that matters. If it’s something like a freak accident around the house that’s one thing, if it was a running thing with another. So let me know about that.
work just fine, it just depends how quickly you can heal. Kevin trees are tricky because it’s how you injure them that matters. If it’s something like a freak accident around the house that’s one thing, if it was a running thing with another. So let me know about that.
Also there’s a great deal of research that shows calf issues are related specifically to hamstrings and hip functional movement. So as you work to get better remember that it’s not just the point of the problem but likely the manifestation of a larger set of symptoms.
As you work to get better remember that it’s not just the point of the problem but likely the manifestation of a larger set of symptoms.
I hope you’re able to be on the bike to stay aerobically fit as you nurse the calf back to health.
All healed. The calf injury was a result of a weights block, and overloading the calf by placing my feet too low on the platform of a leg press sled, which resulted in a far-too-acute knee angle under maximum load.
checking in to see if I remain on the right track, big picture.
-A race = tremblant or Wisconsin. Then either Kona or a few low-key IMs.
-goal is to get back to a 330-335 run For the “A”
-here’s what I’m up to - this is mostly what we discussed in November:
Run is very very easy, goal is build up and then stay at a large weekly mileage without breakdown. Im at/ Should be able to sustain 45mi/week of very very easy for mid-feb, continued through April. Maybe include 1day ‘hard’ starting March. Then traditional EN OS run starting in mid-April through May (so, effectively a 6week run focus), and then onto IM build June, July, Aug.
Bike is easy, 4x week, until March, then OS bike-focus plan March-April-May. Backing off a bit in May to enable best possible running. Then IM Build June, July, Aug.
Swim is 2x week EZ in Feb, 3x in March/April as 1 endurance, 1 speed (50s, onto 100s), and 1 form. Starting May and until race, 3x week as Mike Roberts/Red Mist Get Faster program. A few 4x weeks at 2-3 weeks before race.
1 weights, 3 core per week now and forever.
Might do an epic camp in april or May, as long as it doesn’t interfere / undermine running.
Anything jumping out at you?
I am glad to hear that you are back on track with your calf. That can be really tricky, and, despite your recovery, should still be on your radar for the rest of the season. Those injuries don’t just “go away.”
My only feedback for you is that I don’t believe you need to do 45 miles a week this early in the year. I think there’s a baseline level of running that’s helpful for you, in terms of staying fit. On top of that we have specific interval we work we do to make you stronger. But if you have “extra time” I would vastly prefer that you invest it on the bike then on the run. In other words, 30 to 35 miles running a week is more than enough right now for an August race.
what say you?
Thanks Patrick. I'll bet that the 35mi/wk is probably going to a naturally-occurring phenomenon once I begin harder biking in March, so you're going to end up being right.
My intention behind the 45/wk was leaving nu run stone unturned. To Not go Gentle into that good night. Since my run fell off a cliff a few years ago, I've tried status quo, excessive rest, excessive speed, 80/20, 'less is more,' 'rest is more,' and a long list of other bigger-picture strategies. This is just another, in the spirit of "more running volume = more run-specific training stress = faster Dave. What makes it interesting is when I look at logs for the last 20 years, I've been unable / unwilling to go above a general level of mileage/wk, and ^this^ approach, I figured, was a way to breakthrough that ceiling in an effort to breakthrough as a runner.
But again, I gotcha and will abide. Thanks for the response and notes.
@Dave Tallo well, you know I do have a run at this focus on return on investment. I need to find a way to merge that with your concerns about the run. I do believe that building the run engine first is the best approach for you right now. I would rather do that focus and then get you Ironman RaceReady during the traditional build without the need to develop deep run speed that you want on race day. In other words, it would be nicer to be able to maintain the run speed by race prep.
can you tell me what insights you’re getting from your run training right now? And what some interim goals would be for May in terms of run fitness? In other words, how fast do you need to be able to run an Iron Man to be successful?
Checking in!
-you have me on the "improve 10"-3' power plan" for the next 6 weeks and wanted to monitor the targets. You set these as of 05/06/20 as
All have been doable and I've used these as baselines , but pushed the numbers higher where possible using modelled 10' 30' 90' from my PMC. I've been able to sustain the numbers between the first and last sets(s).
Also bought a stryd as suggested and have a few runs' worth of data (as well as a Critical Power number). interesting stuff!
@Dave Tallo Nice! I can see those numbers rolling in on the bike. These are over your last 30 days vs the whole year - red = better.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6029573/uploads/773/Screen Shot 2020-05-19 at 10.39.35 AM.pngIt's interesting to me is how consistent you are between 90 seconds in five minutes. It's affectively the same power. In order for us to extend that five minute power out to the 10 minute window and beyond, we're gonna have to rent raise the 1.5 minute and three minute powers, hence the changes here:
Adjustments if the workout allow for them.
As for Stryd, keep gathering that data, can't wait to take a look at it!keep gathering that data, can't wait to take a look at it!
~ Coach P