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2016/17 NOS Week 8 Bike Thread - Capture the Gains

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  • @Ashton - Caught ya hook, line and sinker. Good differentiating between which app is controlling the trainer. My experience is with the Wahoo Kickr app, as I haven't bothered with TR this season.
  • @SS Are you saying that if the 5' test was lower than 120% of the FTP 20' test, that switching to longer VO2 intervals as opposed to 30/30's is beneficial?
  • @SS - Your comments are golden as usual. Yep, due to laziness, I undershot the VO2 test. I failed to perform the simple calculation that you provided. Brain fart. I agree with you on the 5' VO2 sets. With the change to 30" VO2 sets this OS, I felt unprepared when tackling the VO@ portion of the test. I believe it may also have had a limiting effect on my ftp test. In last year's week 8 OS test had a 30 watt gain. Anecdotal observation at best though. The mental challenge of the 5' VO2's over the 30" intervals would have helped with pacing.

    Week 1 - 241 w at 175 lbs = 3.03 w/kg
    Week 2 - 262 w at 163 lbs = 3.54 w/kg
  • @ Robert - I want to be careful with that and not Kill anybody.  When in doubt follow the plan and build up to the 5' intervals........BUT yes, once you build up to them, 5' Vo2 intervals are definitely more difficult and more fitness building comparatively speaking......

    SS

  • Here are my test results. I think the best part of this is the knowledge that I've gained in training with power from Week 1 to Week 8.
    Week 1: V02 Max: 150? The question mark is because my Stages PM kept fading in and out. FTP: 135W again, user errors on the equipment resulting in data that wasn't accurately captured. Based on Strava upload, Coach P determined that FTP number and I've been training based off of that.
    Week 8: V02 Max: 170W 1.267 IF with 88 cadence avg FTP: 151 W, 1.139 IF with 87 cadence - I've become more knowledge in the equipment that I have. I'm really scared/excited for Weeks 9-14!
  • Fantastic results Sabra!

    I just want to point out below, Phil has lost weight while lifting his power number making him faster from both actions raising his w/kg ratio from 3 to 3.5!! BAM!

    The NOV OS is strong and solid with this group!

    SS

  • @Ashton / Phil - This makes sense to me (hitting the + and - buttons).  Like Phil says, its like doing the VDot  test on a treadmill.

  • Fantastic results so far!  I can't wait to get home and give this a shot.  You all are very motivating!

  • Re VO2 training work in the OS, Coach P said that the first 8 week block is more FTP focused, "getting to the ceiling" and the second 8 week block is more VO2 focused, "raising the ceiling". I haven't looked ahead in the training plan to see how workouts are changing, but assuming they are. Here is the video where he talks about it:

    Block 2 (Week 8) -- Halfway: New Zones, Ceiling vs. Room (Click to Watch Video Here) http://members.endurancenation.us/TrainingPlan/TrainingPlanCentralPage.aspx
  • Howdy! I joined EN at the beginning of the Nov OS. 11 W FTP increase today!

    I performed the test on a Kickr in slope mode while watching Sufferfest- Rubber Glove.

    VO2 power- 270 NP (did I undershoot?)
    20 min power- 244 NP
    New FTP- 234 W

    At 167 lb, I'm at 3.1 W/Kg, old was 2.9 w/kg. I'm loving EN, and very happy with my results!

    http://tpks.ws/osH8p
  • Excellent results thus for from the NOS team!  Can't wait to see the rest.  Interesting discussion on these smart trainers...glad I don't have one.  Actually, my cost/benefit analysis has kept me from buy one.  I'm like SS, I use a old school Cyclops Fluid II trainer with a Garmin Vector power meter on my road bike.  My .1 cents: I thought the intent of a trainer was to closely replicate riding outside = slope (non-erg) mode, esp. on an all out effort test.  But I've never used a smart trainer so that's why this is my .1 cents. 

    I tested this morning and feel pretty good about the results. Two weeks ago I adjusted my FTP to 250, which was about on target with today's test.  My strategy was to do the first 5' just under 250, 5' between 250-260, 5' between 260-270, 5' at best effort.  NP ended at 269.  The numbers look great compared to week 1, but my concern is I'm only 6 watts ahead of last year's week 8 test.  Yes, I'm a numbers guy.  The Jury is almost in on whether to continue with the 30/30s vs 4'-5' Vo2 intervals. 

    Now the challenge is to put out another 10% increase over the next 6 weeks...you have to shoot for the moon and hope to get close! 

    By the numbers:

                       Week 1     Week 2     % Increase

    FTP               231          256               10.8%

    VO2Max      274          289               5.5%

    Strava file: www.strava.com/activities/806992463

     

  • There is a lot of strong work and fantastic results coming out from testing. It's Christmas has come a bit early in the results department. Excited to see what the final tests will hold!
  • The greatest motivation is the thought of testing again if you stop!! Ugh...great to see so many big gains from folks today. I didn't test at the start of the OS; tested out at 255 VO2Max and 217 FTP, which is 4 short of this point last year when I had a lot more bike fitness coming in. I tested out at 231 in week 13, so that is the "work is speed entering the body" mantra for the rest of the OS. This only puts my W/Kg at 2.45, which is a bit depressing, but it is what it is. Body comp will continue to be as important as fitness, as Alaskaman is anything but flat:o) Thanks for all the mojo throughout the day to get me focused on the bike.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/807441447
  • Well I went down by three watts from 256 to 253.   Test #1 was taken 18-Oct using Zwift’s 20 minute FTP test.  For today’s test, I used TrainerRoads (not ENs) 20 FTP minute test.  The major difference between the 2, is that Zwift gives you a 10 minute break between to Vo2 Max and the 20 minute time trial.  TrainerRoad’s test only gives you 5 minutes.  Both, switched out of erg to slope mode for the Vo2 max and the 20 minute time trial.

    I was going to say that I went much harder on the Vo2 Max this time, but I went back and checked.  They were both very close.  I basically had the same results with the 20 minute effort being 3 watts less this time.  I know I went all out.  I tasted blood when I was done, and I later realized I bit my lip.  Everything was foggy when I finished and I felt like I almost was going to throw up.  I wanted to quit so many times, but I did not want to report back that I quit.

    I tried doing Mike’s pacing guide that I mentioned in the beginning of this week’s forum.  After 5 minutes, I was giving everything I had just to keep steady at the implied watts.  If you look at my TP graph, you can see the power slowly and slightly going down over the 20 minutes.

    18-Oct

    20-Dec

    Vo2 Max NP

    300

    301

    Vo2 Avg HR

    163

    169

    20 min NP

    270

    267

    20 min Avg Hr

    163

    174

     

    TP file - http://tpks.ws/Yfr1K

    Strava - https://www.strava.com/activities/807447588

    The good news is that I feel like I’ve made progress on the Tuesday / Saturday FTP sessions.  I feel like I need to work more on raising the roof on Thursday’s.  I don’t believe the 30/30s do much for me, but I’d love to hear what you think.

    Great work out there everyone and please keep posting!

  • Got my test in early this am. First out season and overall I'm quite pleased.
    VO2. FTP
    Wk1. 256. 213
    Wk8. 269. 224

    Good news is that I managed to hold my ftp from last race to start of off-season so this is a new high for me.

    I've been really consistent on the bike sessions (not so much on run) and hope to continue the progress. Good conversation on erg mode and will keep in mind as was doing the +/- in wahoo app as well. Will do a bit of research on slope as usually just plug in target watts in erg for intervals. While I'm psyched about the ftp improvement my big win will be body comp. will enjoy the holidays and buckle down.
  • @Brian, I don't think I've responded to the 30/30s as well as I did to the 5' Vo2Max Interval from last OS. The 30/30's seem to relatively "easy" and I don't think they stress my muscles enough. I'm thinking about pulling in the Thursday workouts from 2016 OS starting at week 2. That's what I think.

  • Posted By Derrek Sanks on 20 Dec 2016 04:10 PM

    Excellent results thus for from the NOS team!  Can't wait to see the rest.  Interesting discussion on these smart trainers...glad I don't have one.  Actually, my cost/benefit analysis has kept me from buy one.  I'm like SS, I use a old school Cyclops Fluid II trainer with a Garmin Vector power meter on my road bike.  My .1 cents: I thought the intent of a trainer was to closely replicate riding outside = slope (non-erg) mode, esp. on an all out effort test.  But I've never used a smart trainer so that's why this is my .1 cents. 

    I tested this morning and feel pretty good about the results. Two weeks ago I adjusted my FTP to 250, which was about on target with today's test.  My strategy was to do the first 5' just under 250, 5' between 250-260, 5' between 260-270, 5' at best effort.  NP ended at 269.  The numbers look great compared to week 1, but my concern is I'm only 6 watts ahead of last year's week 8 test.  Yes, I'm a numbers guy.  The Jury is almost in on whether to continue with the 30/30s vs 4'-5' Vo2 intervals. 

    Now the challenge is to put out another 10% increase over the next 6 weeks...you have to shoot for the moon and hope to get close! 

    By the numbers:

                       Week 1     Week 2     % Increase

    FTP               231          256               10.8%

    VO2Max      274          289               5.5%

    Strava file: www.strava.com/activities/806992463

     

    Editing to add: After looking at my results from last year's OS again, I realized I missed the obvious.  Although I'm 6 watts higher than last year's week 8 test, I'm only 4 watts away from last year's week 14 test!!  Therefore, I should have said I'm almost at the point where I was at the end of the last OS!  Changing my perspective.

  • Completed my test this morning and I feel pretty good about my results... FTP went up 15w from the start of OS and I am now at 244image Great to see the positive results. Not sure what would be realistic to expect in terms of future gains but I am thinking this summer is going to be a lot of fun and quite a bit faster!
  • Did my test on TrainerRoad. Up 1% to a 258, but up almost 20% year over year. Didn't leave much on the table as I got my HR up to 176 by the end. This is a very high HR for me on the bike.

    Regarding the test format, I thought that TrainerRoad used erg mode for the first three spinups and then went into slope mode to let the rider go all out for the 5-minute VO2 max interval and then the 20-minute FTP test.

    I will need to lose weight to improve my FTP/kg as I seem to be hitting a plateau in my power output. (2% gain in October...)
  • Great results everyone!

    I tested midday yesterday and am really pleased with the results.

    I'm up 21% from Week 1 to an FTP of 249 with W/kg up from 2.55 to ~3.1. This is still 6 watts below my best-ever FTP test in last year's Wk8 NOS, but it's good to see that 7 weeks of consistent training has me almost back to the same place as I was severely under-trained on the bike coming into this year's OS.

    @Brian -- thanks for the shout-out on the test pacing guidelines. hopefully they have been / will be helpful to folks.

    I used that method and found that my average watts were increasing by ~2 per minute from minute 5 to 15 which felt natural to me so I went with it. I hammered the final 5 minutes and ended up surpassing the wattage output for my VO2 segment earlier in the ride, so obviously I didn't hit that part hard enough (or, I wasn't properly warmed up). My average HR this time was low compared to prior tests, so I may have left some watts on the table. Upside is that I should be able to show further improvement in week 14 assuming we all survive these brutal new FTP numbers/wkos.

    On to the run test after resting today!
  • after reading the discussions on ftp interval pacing (riding indoors on trainer) I looked at my pacing last week riding 2x20' @ ftp outdoors in 5 min increments and in total



    minute 0-5 5-10 10-15 15-20 total/average

    interval 1

    cadence 67 67 69 68 68

    heart rate 139 143 148 155 146

    NP 276 271 276 280 275



    interval 2

    cadence 69 68 69 71 69

    heart rate 149 155 157 160 156

    NP 277 275 268 276 274



    data shows I ride a a pretty steady cadence and power with heart rate rising during interval



    (I ride and out and back course with the turn around @ about minute 10/11 - causing power to drop then rise during the turn)
  • Well....I hate to be a downer but I found out his morning I have the flu. Seven weeks of really solid training and now this.

    I guess I'll have to check in via the micro-thread as to when and with what protocol I should resume. Total bummer as I was actually looking forward to testing this week.

    Good work everyone! I've seen a lot of positive responses on here and Strava and know mine will come when I'm healthy again.

    Keep it up!
  • Well peeps, frankly, I had to stop and make myself a recovery drink after reading the last 10 posts from this group of animals!  Everyone making BIG progress, showing the work that has been done in the form of well executed and improved baselines.

    The biggest impression made on me was from Brian's post.  Putting in a full work day, coming home and implementing a successful test after a long day, posting the results, laying it all out there and moving forward.....that's called leading!  That's why Brian is leading the NOV OS bike group!  

    Some perspective regarding the 5' Vo2 thoughts below.  First, trust the plan.  These coaches have figured all the work/load/math out for you.  The plan has plenty of work in it to come.  The plan balances the total run/bike load week to week.  The plan is the output of many many OS experiences over many athletes and is, in my view, by far, the best there is to offer having read all the books, employed many different plans over many years....... Hacking the plan should not be taken lightly.  Overextending on bike work can cause you to underperform on the run front.  It is a delicate balance.

    Veterans know where to hack the plan, where to tweak things based on where their weaknesses are.  They know where to overextend, where to pull back, etc..  Veterans are also pushing the limits, finding the very edge and trying to find that next level.  They have more experience, have failed many times and often times have a higher fitness level.  Be careful about following a veteran into a deep dark fatigue hole.

    For example, Derrek Sanks is a monster on the run, he has completed several successful Ironmans, he eats glass for breakfast during his training runs.  He can afford to hack the bike plan and get away with it.  He knows from experience that he wants to improve his bike fitness and will most likely not lose run fitness given his seasoned experience and deep running base.  Try to keep all of this in perspective and when in doubt, just follow the plan, listen to your body, rest as needed....

    Ok, off the soap box, sorry for that.

    Morning interval work that felt like a bad dream: https://www.strava.com/activities/807824930

    Keep moving forward all!

    SS

  • Great results above! I used the Sufferfest Rubber Glove on the Computrainer.

    For the V02 test just switched to slope mode for 5 minutes and gave it my all. Went up from 247 in week 1 to 269 today.

    For the FTP test I was hoping to follow the pacing advice above. Got 4 minutes into the test and heard the dreaded PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS coming from my back tire! Of all times to get a flat! and on the trainer!

    Anyway, didn't have time to change tube and start over so looks like I will retest tomorrow.

    Is it recommended to suffer through the 5 minutes V02 test again? or just get a good warmup and hit the 20 minute ftp test?
  • Great work for the tests everyone! Big bumps in FTP out there!

    I was very happy with my results. Although they were without HR numbers due to my stupid Garmin HRM pod going belly up this weekend. GRRRRR. Anyone else think those are the biggest boon-doggle ever created, that replacing the battery doesn't work!?!? I have done all the online tips and tricks with flopping battery and such, and none of them worked for mine, for the last 3 HRM pods. Sick of those pieces of doggie doo-doo.  Anyway.... 

    I was feeling good yesterday morning, and fueled up with 3 chomps before and GU gel at the start of the 10 min easy spin before the 20' segment. Also, drank Arbonne electrolyte mix during the entire workout. 

    The 5 min Z5 push ended up at 384NP, which was about 10W above Week 1.

    Then during the 20' test, I was able to get my NP ave up to my wk 1 test (354NP) by the 6 minute mark, which had me worried. However, the energy just kept steady, and I was able to boost the final NP number to 376W. I was very surprised. That beats my end of the OS from last year by 3W. I am not sure I can do much better than that, but I will try to maintain these gains the next 6 weeks and see if I can get any bump at the end. Now my FTP is 357, up 14W, so the new pain will start on Sat long bike.  

  • @Stephen. I feel your pain for sure. But I would suggest you do the whole test as it is laid out. The workout is designed to put a specific amount of work before the 20 min segment, partly to compensate for the change in testing for previous OS's. Tests used to be 2x20min (2) of work, then using WKO+ or WKO3 to scan the Ave normalized power for all 42 mins. We would use that number outright as the FTP, instead of the 0.95 of the current 20min FTP portion.  Good luck with the re-do!  

  • I can't believe all the people that have reached an FTP that is greater than where their exiting FTP was last year. It's my first OS, so I am very inspired. Will test this Friday morning and hope to have some good numbers to show.

    @Ed - you're roughly 300lbs right? That would really help me wrap my head around 357 FTP...well done!
  • @Ashton. LOL  Nice one!  I am actually a bit heavier than I'd like, 3lbs up from OS start, but about 213 right now. So that puts the current W/kg at 3.70.  I'll take that, but would like to trim the pounds closer to 200 for sure.

  • Great perspective! That's why you are a WSM!
  • Did the FTP test this morning. My FTP is basically the same - 192. This is a bit disappointing, but not entirely surprising. I've been on vacation so I haven't been on the bike the last two weeks. I also haven't slept much in the last two days because my daughter is in the hospital. I was thinking of delaying the test but Coach P. suggested I go ahead and get it done.

    This just means my gains will be that much greater over the next 8 weeks! 

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