Jason Veith's Official Coach Thread
Starting out my Micro Thread!!
I'm still in the Trial Week. I'm hoping with the holidays, that it's ok to mix around the workouts just a little bit. I jumped on my bike trainer last night, and ran through the Bike Test. I was enjoying myself (watching a movie) and lost track of time. My test ended up being 30 minutes instead of 20. I hope that is ok? I pushed myself, and was out of breath and soaked in sweat, so I think I gave a hard effort. However, my heart rate avg was only 144 bpm. Looking back at my Garmin Connect logs, my spin classes and other indoor bikes were around around that same average, so I think that it was pretty accurate.
I assume that this first set of tests is just to gather a baseline. So, what might seem low today, may actually increase as I proceed further down then plan.
If 144 bpm seems a bit low, I can always re-run the test this weekend and try to push harder (and only for 20 minutes this time).
Thanks,
- Jason
Comments
I'm also wondering if my 144 bpm is too low on the Bike Test. I felt like I was giving it a hard effort, but now that I see my HR for the run, I'm starting to second guess myself.
So.... I guess I'm asking. Are these Run and Bike Tests ok to start with, or should I re-take them in a day or two?
My bike/run fitness still isn't back to where it needs to be following surgery. I know this will get better over time, and I just have to be patient.
Thanks!
- Jason
Rest day tomorrow, and then I start up the Run Endurance 1 plan for one week. After that, it is on to the OutSeason.
The way my schedule works out, it's easier for me to get a run in first thing in the morning. I'm usually wake up ~4am and get to they gym by 5am. I need to be out the door by 6am, to make sure I have enough time to walk the dogs, get a shower and get ready for work.
4am - wake up
5am - at the gym working out
6am - leave the gym to get home and walk dogs, shower and get ready for work
7:20am - leave for work.
8:00am- ~4:30pm Work (desk job boooooo)
5:00pm - Home. This is where can start another working, eat dinner, etc.
1. Yes a 2 mile distance is enough for the first test. Going out to hardest pretty common, so don't beat yourself up. Just promised to do better next time!
2. For the bike test we have actually modified our testing protocols because of this very issue. You really want to take the average heart rate for the last 20 minutes of your test, not the full test itself. This is because your heart rate takes a while to build up. If we capture from the outside and we are getting lots of bad data relative to the effort of which your body is working. So see if you can adjust the zones with that approach.
3. absolutely it's fine to do bike in the morning and run later. It's our preference to combine the workouts to make life easier, but in your case that's not true. Also note that those runs in the evening are not necessarily mandatory. Should you get home from work or be under pressure, I'd rather we push that run off and just continue with the program. Do your best to hit them, but don't crush yourself to do so.
Onwards!
~ Coach P
Thank you!! I'm sure we can discuss more of what a typical day will look like when we have our call tomorrow! I'm looking forward to it.
I was just plotting out my OutSeason (first 4 weeks) on my calendar, and I noticed I have a wedding on 1/20-1/22 (Wk2 of OS)
I was wondering if I could bump Tue,Wed,Thru, and Saturday workouts up a day (leaving Sun workout for the evening)
New Schedule would look like
Mon (1/16) Run and Bike
Tues (1/17) Run
Wed (1/18) Run and Bike
Thurs (1/19) Rest Day
Fri (1/20) Bike (dropping the run since it is low priority)
Sat (1/21) Rest Day
Sun (1/22) Run in the evening
Getting back to the regularly scheduled program starting WK3
Talk to you more about it at our 1pm Eastern call today.
- Jason
BTW, dancing in Zone 5 totally counts.
~ Coach P
I have some skiing time scheduled from Friday 2/3 thru Tuesday 2/7. I'm wondering how I should juggle the end of week 4 and the start of week 5 of the JanOS
I will have the early morning of Friday 2/3 to do some type of workout
We won't be home until really late on Tuesday 2/7, so that day is pretty much a wash.
Thanks
- Jason
All joking aside, that's not a problem. Here's what I recommend you do:
Wed - Back on Week5 plan (just don't get too greedy with this first day back, it might take a day or two for you to get used to training again... So workout for time not necessarily intensity).
I expect to see pictures from your trip!!!
~ Coach P
In my OutSeason Plan, I'm suppose to start doing the optional swim workouts on Monday and Fridays.
Our local Master Swim has practices geared toward Triathletes but they are on Monday and Thursdays. I was wondering if it would be possible to adjust my weeks to take advantage of these practices?? Also, I would assume (I know assuming is bad!!) that I would need to follow the workout given at the Master Swim, and not the one in the OutSeason plan. Is that ok??
Thanks!!
- Jason
What do you think?
~ Coach P
Thanks again!!
Thank you so much for the video! It was perfectly timed, as I am starting to look forward to my 1/2 marathon at the end of April.
Here is where I currently stand (as I'm nearing the end of the JanOS).
vDOT (From test at Wk8): 35
Run Zones (based on Pace):
My last long outdoor run (8 miles): Avg Pace: 9:21 min/mile
https://www.strava.com/activities/915473326
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1641343595
OhioHealth Capital City Half Marathon (Goals!):
Looking at all of my stats, it has me "oh so close" to that magical 2hr Half Marathon finish time.
The course is pretty flat and fast, which really helps make this attainable!
Advice needed!!!:
So, here is where I need your expertise!
Do you think the 2 Hour Half Marathon is realistic for me at my current fitness?
I've been doing some reading on the wiki about pacing, and I understand the 3-7-3 concept! Now I just need to get myself to actually obey it!! (Excitement of the run always gets me starting out too quick I usually figure it out by a mile or so, and slow myself down, but I need to get better at just going easy right out of the gate).
I can't believe how great the OutSeason has been!! I'm looking forward to the HIM season, and getting outdoors to train.
As always, thank you so much for your help!
- Jason
I think if you ran the last 8 at 9:10 or better, I would be PUMPED. It won't break the barrier, but that's just a matter of time, I promise you.
Here's the pacing plan:
The first three are critical...you last run you shared with me ^above^ had your first three miles the fastest (not good!).
So whether or not you hit the goal, we want to see if you can follow the pacing above. Learning how to execute is part of the Year One goal!
Side note, your run cadence is WICKED LOW. 160 per minute...we'd like to have 180 rpms...that's something to work on in your taper runs. Nice quick short steps...do it 1' on, 2' off until you get "used" to the rpms. Even getting to 170 rpms will help you "tidy up" a lot of run form issues.
My run cadence has always been low. Even looking back on runs from years past, it's been 160's. That's something I'm going to need to continue to work on. I'm planning on doing another long run this weekend (weather is suppose to be sunny and 58). What better excuse than to get outdoors and practice my pacing along with trying to focus on getting my cadence up. I promise, promise, promise I'll start out slower and then build after the first 3 miles. No more letting my excitement get the best of me and start out too fast.
Ok.. for now, I'm going to forget about breaking the 2hr barrier, and just focus on having a nice smooth race, that is paced correctly. I'll let the clock take care of itself since I don't have control over it. I'll work on the things I can control (start out easy, higher cadence, having LOADS of fun!!!). Who knows, the clock may shock me and be nice!
On to other goodies!! I hit the 100 lbs. lost mark (from my heaviest of 310 lbs. pre-surgery). My weight is down to 208 lbs. For this goal I splurged and bought myself a set of PowerTap P1 Pedals! It's time to play with real power numbers, and not those virtual ones from TrainerRoad!
I'm rambling on, so I should wrap this up!
Thanks again for the great advice! I'll let you know how it goes on my next long run.
- Jason
100 POUNDS LOST is epic. And I love the reward...what's the next milestone?
I love your perspective on the run...and it will keep you on the right path. I think that as you run long this weekend, try to get some consecutive run miles in at your goals pace. If you were doing 10, then the last 5 after a smart first 5 miles. putting the good miles last will really highlight your ability to run that pace, and help you develop an appreciation for just how hard it could be.
~ Coach P
Weekend long run (10 miles) in the books. I focused on your advice and took the first 5 miles easy, and then kicked it into gear the last 5 miles. I also focused getting my run cadence up.
What do you think??
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1664974104
https://www.strava.com/activities/933050515
The higher cadence felt pretty good. I know I didn't get to the 180's, but I'm up to 170's, so I thought that was a nice increase
Trying to hold back the first first miles was hard, but I could tell that it helped me on the second five miles.
As for my next milestone, my nutritionist doesn't want to see me below 185 lbs (due to my build and height). My personal goal was to see 199.9 lbs one time! I think that mark is well in sight now, and I may need to re-adjust my goal!
Thanks again for the great advice!
- Jason
The more conservative plan would be just like ^this^ run -- 5 to get into it, then 8 racing!
You know you are on the right path when you have "do not exceed" goals for weight loss!!!
~ Coach~ Coach P
I'm a bit late with this info, but I think it is very interesting!
My attempt at a 2 hour Half Marathon got rained on (literally)!! A strong thunderstorm rolled in, and they had to clear everyone off the course. I was able to get 9.5 miles of the race in.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1704434713
My legs were feeling great at the end, and I know I had more in the tank to push the last 3 miles.
Projecting out, I would have been oh-so-close to hitting the 2 hour mark.
Some thoughts!!
1) I know the first mile was too fast. When my watch marked the first mile (which seemed a bit short), I heard you in my head yelling at me to slow my a$$ down. You can see I listened because my 2nd mile was much slower!
2) Miles 4-8 felt great at that ~9:16-9:20 pace. i was working, but wasn't going to burn out. I had more left in the tank
3) The 9:29 for mile 9 was a bit askew because they were rounding people up and redirecting them. It got to be a log-jam that I had to weave my way through.
4) Since I knew my day was done, I decided to see what I had left in the tank. That 8:43 was very comfortable, and I know I could have kept that pace up to the finish (just give it my all and make it hurt at the end!!).
Overall, I'm really happy at my run. I'm a bit bummed that I couldn't finish and give the 2hr goal a real shot. I guess I'll need to wait until my next half marathon in Oct to give it another attempt.
Now it is on to the HIM plan! Time to get serious about getting some time in the water (I'm a horrible swimmer, so I just want to focus on getting through the swim and not burning myself out for the rest of the HIM). I know my run fitness is there, so it's just a matter of keeping it. I'm very impressed how far I've come with my run fitness. You and Coach Rich have me running further and faster than I ever have before!! (LOVE IT!). For this season, I think I'm going to focus on my bike fitness. My watts/kg are a bit low. I'm still trying to shed weight, so any more I can lose is always going to help. The more and more I ride, the better it will get. My FTP will get there as I get more fit.
Thanks again for the great words of wisdom!!
- Jason
My favorite is your HR profile building (after that early hiccup):
You were really ing pacing well and definitely on track!
You are 12 weeks out from Ohio 70.3®, so you have plenty of time. Swim consistency 2x, 3x if possible...and run consistency (2 to 3 weeks of no flash TRP runs for a total of 20-24 miles) will be key. And they will let you push that bike for sure.
Are you thinking anything special on the bike?
~ Coach P
Survival ??? Just kidding!!
I need to take a closer look at my bike workouts (and do a lot more outdoor riding!!!). But as a SWAG, I was hoping to come in somewhere near the 3:05 - 3:10 mark. (avg ~17-18 MPH). Again, that's just a wild guess, and not based off of any real data!! Once I can get some longer outdoor rides in, I'll be able to better judge where I'm at.
Just as a small sample.. here is a ~25 mile ride I did. It was cold and windy so it was a teeth chattering ride.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1720203466
- Jason
Once you get the long rides factored in, we can talk about specific intervals, etc!
~ Coach P
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1732969445
This is just about where I thought I wanted to be for the HIM bike. Now I'm starting to re-think a little bit, and think I can perform even better on the 56 mile ride!
Thanks again
- Jason
Being able to concentrate like that ^above^ when tired on race day will give you plenty of extra speed. Especially when most folks are slowing down.
Keep it up!
~ Coach P
Ok.. time for a silly question!! I just picked up a Garmin Edge 520, and I'm trying to figure out what are the best data fields to have on the display. I've been reading through old forum posts, and this is what I came up with so far.
[ Time ] (centered)
[Pwr 3s] - [NP Lap]
[Cadence] - [Heart Rate]
[Avg speed] - [NP]
[Speed] - [Distance]
Auto Lap set for 5 miles
Auto pause turned off (of course, it's a race dummy!!)
Time Alert set to every 15 minutes (reminder to eat/drink)
Any ideas to make the display more useful??
Thanks, as always, for your sage advice!
@Coach Patrick
I've been juggling the plan around just a bit because I'm going to be out of town next week. I read in other Micro Forums that is better to move the RR up a week instead of delaying it a week. I decided to do mine (sorta - no swim) today.
56.3 mile bike - 3:12:45 (17.5 mph avg)
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1804344651
Ignore the IF and TSS on this ride I forgot to set the FTP on the new Garmin so it had it here than I really am (266W vs 207W)
6.01 mile run - 1:00:58 (10:09 min/mile avg)
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1802933592
Overall the bike was great. I may have overreached just a little bit because the run was a tad slower than I would have hoped for. However, I'm not complaining at all. I'll take those numbers being about 6 weeks out from the HIM
Today was all about dialing in nutrition. I think I did pretty well at this.
For the 56 miles on the bike, I drank (3) 24oz bottles of Orange Gatorade Endurance. I also have the 40oz Speedfil on the frame filled with water. I sipped on that all ride long. I also went through 2 sleeves of Clif Shot Boks (all but 2 chews that I saved for the run)
I had my alarm on my Garmin alerting me every 15 minutes. This is when I would drink the GE. I would usually wait 5 minutes or so after and then grab at SB chew. When I wasn't doing that, I was sipping water from the SpeedFil along the way.
For the 6 mile run, I had a 12oz handheld bottle. I took sips of this at each mile of the run. At 3 miles I also took the last two SB chews that I saved on the bike. During a race, I would be taking either GE or water at the aid stations, and not carrying a water bottle with me. For the next RR, I think I'll fill the handheld bottle with watered down GE to see if that will give me a little bit more of a boost.
Overall, I'm happy with the effort. I do need to dial in the run better after a long bike. I learned from this RR that I need to SLOW MY A$$ DOWN the first few miles off the bike, and just get my legs under me. (This seems to be a really bad habit of mine that I'm having a hard time breaking). I can really see the effects of it in the later miles of the run.
I'm really happy that the Orange flavor GE is working for me. I was a bit worried since I have a hard time with sweet tasting stuff since surgery. A lot of sweet doesn't sit well and gives me GI issues. Orange GE seems to sit just fine. However the Lemon/Lime GE doesn't sit as nice. It works in a pinch, but I don't like the taste as much
I learned a lot from this first RR, and I have items I need to work on for the next one.
If you made it down this far, thanks for reading my novel!
- Jason
You want to keep that display very simple! I can always swipe to the next screen if I need to see distance and I have 3s AVG power above NP lap as the latter accumulates the power I ride. No speed or average speed of those only distracting you from my power mission!
That is a great first rehearsal! Congratulations on dialing in the nutrition! My only advice to you is to carry some Extertal salt pills, I was drinking only water on race day might lead to a little extra fluid in your gut or extra peeing. Otherwise I really like how you adjusted things… Maybe consider having a few bites of a banana in T2 to help settle your stomach.
Onwards!!
~ Coach P
My official "comeback" triathlon after surgery was a HUGE success!! I couldn't have done it without the love and support of Jamie, Team Fraser and the coaches and teammates at Endurance Nation! Now it is on to IM Ohio 70.3!!
Here are my results (from my Garmin)
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1818308223
Swim (1500m but it was long because the buoys were moving)
Swim: 33:41 (1:53 min/100yd)
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1818308223/1
T1: 3:40
Bike (24 mile bike around the island.The bike was a bit short)
Bike: 1:13:09 (18.3 MPH avg)
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1818308223/3
T2: 2:20
Run (6.2 miles on a 2 loop course. The run was spot on for milage)
Run: 56:28 (9:06 min/mile pace)
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1818308223/5
Finish Time: 2:49:18
Thanks again @Coach Patrick
- Jason