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2017 JOS Run Thread week 1 - Its test week !!!

Hello all, and welcome to the official kick off to the January Outseason run group!!

Happy to be your OS Run captain, hope we build together great mojo and share experience!

Week 1, 8 and 14 are test weeks, in the OS, and will look similar. Similar except for the fatigue that will be building through the course of this training block. Test week is your opportunity to validate all of the hard work that you have put in.



Your Week 1 objective is to complete a 5k run test. Your results will set the pacing for the next 7 weeks of your training.

1. Test Location - Choose a location that you can test on all season.  If it rains or snows in you area, an indoor track or treadmill may be your best option.  Make it as consistent and repeatable as possible. But most important is to play safe (we are in January and most of us are training in winter conditions), on my side I will be running on ice and snow for most of this OS and I plan to have slower time than when I did NOS last year.

2. Be rested. Ensure you get a good nights sleep; preferably 7+ hours. Allow yourself recovery time between testing and your last hard run or bike workout. Take an extra day off, or structure workouts to allow for maximum recovery time. Do not forget about hydration and fueling either. You might not feel fatigue at the start of the Outseason, but fatigue will build quickly.



3. Plan your pacing - Without a plan, you stand a good chance of blowing up somewhere in mile 3.  Ideally, you want to negatively split your run test. 



Example

Using a past 5k result, select a starting pace for your first mile. Run the second mile 10-15 seconds faster. On the last mile, run each successive 1/4 mile 10-15 seconds faster. It would look something like this:



mile 1 - 9:00

mile 2 - 8:50

mile 2.01-2.25 - 8:40

mile 2.26-2.50 - 8:30

mile 2.51-2.75 - 8:20

mile 2.76 - All out

Testing takes practice and you get better at it each time. If you blow up or are having issues, post about it. You will receive the encouragement and suggestions of your teammates. We're all in this together and are here to help each other out.



The coaches have created all new videos for this year's OS, and I strongly encourage you to watch or listen to them.  The Outseason Plan Resources page will provide a complete overview.  Each week the coaches provide videos that highlight the week's training focus. Don't be intimitated by other's time, we are all unique and I am confident you all gave your best to do your test and use that data to train with it on the 7 next weeks!
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Comments

  • Did this test yesterday.  Decided to do it on the treadmill -- I'm in northeastern Ohio, and between the snow and the cold, I've found myself on the treadmill more often than not lately.  Not a big deal, but I've ALWAYS been slower on the TM, but it is what it is.  I figure, I get faster on the TM, I'll be faster outside!

    So ... 30:39 for the 5k (9:45/mi; AvgHR = 167, VDOT = 30).  I was able to increase the speed every .5 mi or so, and I feel like I underperformed slightly.  This was the first time I attempted a test on the TM, so I'm sure there's a learning curve element there.  If need be, I'll retest during week 4.  As a comparison, I ran a 28:38 hilly 5K in late October, and I've been running more lately, but obviously I have lots of room for improvement!  

  • Welcome indeed; I'm traveling on business this week...so I chose a 1mile test outside last week...I know 5k is protocol but I have used various distances and past race times over the past few seasons...based on time year, avialable test/courses etc. I didn't want to do a 5k on the TM...so anyhow...1mile test outside 6:13 (a tad short .95)... I will start the OS with a swag off of this 6:30 vdot44....I feel comfortable with this from history above and the suggested paces and current running.
  • Woo hoo Francis - glad you're our captain! Thanks for taking on the role, and hopefully we'll all get closer to your super-fast run speed!

    I'm going to have to test on the treadmill too. Joseph L: I like the idea of a 1-mile test - may even try that on the treadmill
  • Hope you guys don't mind, but I'm in run jail for an extended period, and the spine surgeon and PT told me to walk. Inclined treadmill walking has been recommended. Apparently, a 12-15% grade simulates running without impact. I'm going to ease into a time-based program over the next few weeks, using grade as intervals. I'm clear to swim and hope to be able to substitute swim/walk for the run durability through the JOS. If all goes well, I'll get the green light sometime during the next 14 weeks.
  • @FP - thanks for leading the way here, looking forward to learning and sharing the pain with all.

    I did a Turkey trot 5k in slightly slower than what I'd hope my test results to be. I've also become a running fool in the last 8 weeks and feel that I am training to my former best Vdot of 47. I know my current TRP is trending 20-40"/mile faster, rolling into the OS with that number and training targets. I've been doing Z4 intervals to these Numbers with no issue, so sticking with it and seeing where it takes me, Good luck to all with the tests!
  • @Catherine : it's safer doing this inside than going outside and risk of sliding and injury! thats a wise move - funny to ride 5k and pace by mile =)
    @Joseph: 1m is fine, at least you have some figures to use to train with and you can retest later on and adjust if needed.. anyway you will feel have when starting training
    @Paul: Thanks man! that an honor to lead that group, hope I'll be able to keep all those animals motivated !
    @Scott: you can always later on if you feel the wkouts are getting too easy for you, with your experience you know how to deal with that =)

    I am probably sure my 5k time will be slower than my last one since I will be on snow and the track where I tested last year at the NOS beginning is full of snow.. so it will be around the park 2X turns but I am crossing 2 lights and I ALWAYS get a red one lol.
  • Excited to continue to build run durability in this OS. Currently bringing in a 63 day run streak to the JOS and will maintain it all the way through.
  • I'm not sure what I'm dreading more, the FTP test or the run test... I just know that I want to be able to run like @FP by the end of JOS!

    Looking forward to the next 14 weeks with this group!
  • Although I will be running all through the JOS, I will not be following the plan runs exactly at the paces. I am pushing full on with run durability while trying to set up the best bike results I can. So, I will be running at easier paces. However, I will still be running with you each day. I hope everyone has a very successful and injury free JOS.
  • Good morning peeps!  FP, thanks for leading us and initiating this thread!  Excellent introduction for the week!

    All, I'm on a little bit different schedule than most testing this week, but I'll post my work as we go here.

    I have a Monday morning Z1, durability run: https://www.strava.com/activities/826611377 .....nothing nearly as exciting as a run test to post.....

    Good luck this week all!!

    SS

  • Run test complete. 19:54 vDot of 50. 18 seconds off of my best time from last year. Man these hurt. Man these are fun to do
  • Run test in the books! Another bump in the vDot while balancing a run streak. I'll take a 1.2 point bump in my vDot while hitting day 65 of my run streak while having a controlled and balanced test. Good luck to all!

  • Test Done!!!! Did on the TM since most will be on it in icy winter so far. Coming off a big running year with about 2 week down time before OS so hoping for around 18 minutes since as I did a 17:51 before the marathon in December. Pulled out a 17:50 but hanging on by a thread at the end... and holy heart rate-- a 191 high reading, I haven't saw that high in years. Good thing I didn't look during the test or I would've thought cardiac arrest was on its way. Haha!

    Should be interesting numbers to start an OS. I've never came into an OS with this high a vdot so we'll see how it goes.
  • Really strong work @Trent!
  • Nice work on the VDot tests.  I'm on a get back to running with a plan, with flexibility, that I've laid out.  In previous years I've just done the run/walk thing this year I have outlined weekly minutes and looking at mileage as well as I ramp up further.  This week 10-15' running is the goal over 3 sessions.  1st session I put in 3'.

     

  • I've been running the last few weeks on the TM. Today I was able to get my lazy ass outta bed and get a run in this morning. I've been doing all my runs at TRP... usually around 8:20-8:30. I know today was test day... but I wasn't up for an all out 5k... but I did do a three mile progressive... ending with ramping up the HR pretty high.

    I know there are a lot of new EN'ers on the thread. You may wonder..." How does this run durability play out... will running consistently at slower paces make me faster?". I can tell you from experience it works... buy in. Not only will you decrease your risk of injury... you'll become a much faster athlete.

    Here's today's run... it amazes me that this lies under the surface of consistent 8:20/ mile runs... but it does...

    https://www.strava.com/activities/828360398


  • First of all, thanks to FP for being our OS run Captain! Very cool stuff!!

    I did not test today as I've completed 7 weeks of the NovOS before taking a little break with some non-structured training for a couple of weeks.

    I recently ran a 5k race and my VDOT from that event was 42. I'll be using that as as my training benchmark for the time being.

    I intend to approach the run durability a little differently than the actual plan with shorter, more frequent mileage. My overall objective is to build a solid foundation over the next 26 weeks.

    Today's treadmill run was 6 miles [4 @ TRP & 2 @ HMP].

    [code]https://www.strava.com/activities/828331100/overview [/code]
  • I didn't do the 5K test today, as I am nursing a case of PF and low iron.  I am happy with basing my VDOT off my last 3K race in December and using that as a starting point.  That being said, I had a great 3 mile run this morning in my Hokas and the PF is still feeling pretty good several hours later!  Woot!
  • I did my 5K test on the treadmill this morning. I really have a love/hate relationship with these tests. I dread it the night before, hate the actual run, but love when I hit 3.1 miles. Test results were slightly lower than when I tested in November but about what I expected given my recent upper respiratory illness. 22:23 for a Vdot of 43.7. This is great motivation for sticking to the plan and doing my best to improve over the next 14 weeks!
  • 5K test in the books. Vdot was 34.9 (I am not sure how to read this anyway); time was 27:04, Max HR 173 and Avg HR 165.

    This is my first test so we will see what happens next!
  • Very impressive results so far, nicely done! I've changed my mind and decided to forgo the 5K test. I was hoping to complete something last week but did not, and am traveling internationally this week so I'm not going to stress over it. I'll wait until the next run test.

    So for now I'm with Edwin, Ed, and Todd: continue to build run durability
  • Thank you FP for being our run captain:-) Looks like a lot of motivated, fast people in this group! I decided not to do the run test. Since Kona (Oct.), I took a month off, then for the next 2 months have been doing the Maffetone method of running (max HR is 180 minus age). So because that calculation leaves me with a 114 max HR (my max is actually around 190), I've been doing a LOT of walking. Every time my watch beeps at 115 HR, I have to walk. So frustrating. I gave it a try, but I didn't really see much improvement. Although it worked for Turby - but he never had to walk! So today I had the BEST run! No more Maffetone for me right now. I jogged for 2 miles really easy, then picked it up for the last two! OMG did that feel good!!! It's the hardest and fastest I've run since the week before Kona and it was awesome:-) I did a 5K in December and will use that Vdot for my training. Hopefully, my "speed" will come back, little by little. Keep up the great work everyone!!
  • To all the previous peeps well done on your tests today. For those who are in the penalty box and or taking a new path "keep up the good work" ! Today was a day I was drained of energy. Was on call at the hospital, worked late and called back in the early hrs, so crap rest. Tried to think of a way to get out of doing the run, bad icy roads etc. But my treadmill was calling me, again I had to think about this, I have never tested on a treadmill before. Gear on, pain cave adventure begins. Loud metal thrash rock music to motivate, fans on and we begin. OA it went rather well, punched out a surprising 20:30 vdot 48 and I am 5 lbs heavier than my normal run wt. This has been the fastest 5 km test at this time of year. Previous 5k test outside in Sept was a 21:05 and I was starting a marathon

    prep. I will take it and see what the future brings !
  • Warning: Long post ahead!

    I'm trying to figure out if there are only rockstars in this OS, or if the peeps overwhelmed by all of this (like me) just keep quiet? I am attempting to do a better job of playing along (outside of simply following the plan) this year, but wow, there is a lot going on and wow, ya'll are putting up amazing stats!

    I attempted the 5k time trial today and did a better job of it this time, though auto-pause was on in Strava (oops), inflating my numbers a bit. Even so, I'm really struggling over using the numbers generated by the calculator.

    Last season I pretty much ignored my 5KTT results and somehow backed into the zones I've been using for the last year-ish. Here's how the two compare:

    Zone 1 / LRP / Easy
    11:32 vs. 9:59
    TRP / Run Durability
    10:46 vs. 9:17
    Zone 2 / MP / Steady
    10:00 vs. 8:35
    Zone 3 / HMP / ModHard
    9:42 vs. 8:17
    Zone 4 / TP / Hard
    9:20 vs. 8:02
    Zone 5 / IP / Very Hard
    8:55 vs. 7:37

    (It also gave me a VDOT of 34, though that's still greek to me)

    For reference: My most recent race was an Iron Turkey where I used the 5k as a slow warmup with the kids, and then ran the 10k with the 9 min mile pacers and managed to finish at that pace. It seemed effortless for the pacers, and not so for me, so maybe it means that the zones the test shows are right, and I’m pushing myself too hard in the workouts using “my numbers”? It just seems like I need to be challenging myself to run those paces to build endurance at those paces (specificity, no?). I also have a hard time believing I would have succeeded at the 9 min mile pace had I not been practicing at some much faster paces, so that 9 seemed like a reasonable stretch to hold on to for 10k.

    Bottom line is, I really don’t get how this testing thing works enough to trust that the prescribed zones will help me get faster. Further, I don’t trust my own testing ability! Last season I pretty much gave up trying to understand and did whatever seemed “good enough” to stop thinking and start training. I’m trying to do a better job of learning how to do things the “right” way this time around, so I’m hoping team wisdom / mojo will help me understand and trust the newly prescribed zones and/or tweak them appropriately... In the meantime, I am super tempted to switch to "running hard" or "running easy" and stopping the numbers dance!
  • Catherine if you want to share the link to your test file in Strava, we can take a look at it and try to help out a bit…
  • Just did mine on the ice and slush and melting snow, that was hard but made it!
    21:38 for 5k, vdot :45 is still far from last year high but will bring it back there.

    https://www.strava.com/activities/829149222

    Good job everyone on getting your tests done ! now we can really start working on this!
  • Catherine,

    The 5k time trial is used to calculate the VDOT number that your get, for you 34.  The faster you go the higher your VDOT number.  Was your test evenly paced throughout the 3.1 miles with you picking it up over mile 2 and 3 a little bit?  How was your HR in comparison to your maximum value if you know it or other HR values of real hard runs.  I guess I trying to get a sense of your 5k test, was it very hard at the end and did you leave it all out there, or mostly?

    This VDOT number is used to calculate the paces for the zones you listed, as your VDOT goes up your pace will be smaller, as you are in better shape now you have to run faster further challenge your body.  This is also extended to race pace along with your heart rate but we are not worried about that now.  As for your 10K at 9'  (' = minute) miles, that a 55'55" (" = seconds) or a 35 VDOT.  So your 10K is relatively close to your current 5K test effort.

    The slower run time for the zones are form the 34 VDOT and you've been using the faster ones on the right for training, is that correct?  The numbers on the right (9:59 zn1) are much faster that your 5k and 10K results and are a 41 VDOT score.  This would be a 5k time of 23:38.  With out knowing what you are doing for training you might be doing your slow runs too fast and the fast days too slow.  That is every workout is too similar.

    Looking at the beginner OS workouts for Saturday there is a 20' steady run in zn2.  You should be doing the run at 10' flat as opposed to 8:35 which exceeds your current zn5 numbers for a VDOT of 34 (assuming a reasonable to good test).  Running too fast can lead to injuries so you don't want to be going out hammering trying to hit the 41 VDOT numbers if your current fitness is below that.  If you can run the 8:35 for 20' then you really underperformed on the test.

    The Sunday run is where you will be working in some speed to a longer run.  For example the beginner Sunday run for week 1 is 45' with 3 miles at TRP then 2X1 mile at zone 4.  For the beginner plan the only other faster running in the earlier OS weeks is the final mile on Wednesday has an option to push zn3 and some strides worked in to some of the shorter runs.  As we move deeper in to the OS there might be a little more and intermediate and advanced plans likely have a little bit more speed work.

    So if you could provide more information on your test and maybe some background on the types of runs you were doing at the faster zones. 

    Keep asking the questions and we will get your zones sorted out to help you train more effectively and get the most out the run time you are putting in.

     

  • Thanks @Gordon @Shaugh for the support. I'm fading fast into the night so I'll read again tomorrow.. And Gordon's explanation is already helping me better get my arms around things. :-) Thank you! In the meantime, a few more bits of data to hopefully help:

    Strava training log: https://www.strava.com/athletes/7343486/training/log (I only approve people I know &/or members of the teams I'm on, so if you request access just make sure you're already on TeamEN in Strava and I'll approve no problem.)

    The two runs today were the warm up to the track and the test. Comparison of historic data in the training log are inexact as I've been switching to my Apple Watch which tracks differently than the old Garmin, and even Strava vs. Fitness app on the watch track slightly differently, etc. Hopefully close enough for government work, and soon the data going forward will be more consistent.

    5k TT data also looks goofy b/c I did briefly stop for inhaler (perhaps more mental than actual issue), and stopped again 2x after I lost my mojo. Knowing I was being timed made me kick back into gear pretty quickly, though less quickly than I could have b/c I figured out auto-pause was on. (Shame on me!)  I went in to the test thinking I should be able to do better than 10k pace, so figured I'd start at/slightly below 10k pace and then try to ramp up/down--however you look at it. I'm bummed I can't say I truly succeeded b/c I made those brief stops & because the time wasn't super consistent (some of that is the watch lagging on pickup, I think) and because I clearly slowed down a bit in the 2nd mile. Did manage to pick it up at the very end. 

    I always feel like I could have done more on these tests. (Always = like 3 times testing, I think ;-). I learned this time I need to not run 25 min before starting, and need to do tests earlier in the day before I've exhausted my mental energy, as I feel like that the bigger issue. I am really happy overall with what I did without the help of a pacer or a treadmill to keep me on track--that felt like big progress. I also had a better "real" sense of where to start with the 9' target, so that was good progress this time around, too.

    Some race times below for a rought idea of progression without looking at Strava files:

    Half Marthon 

    Date Event Name Race Name City/State Age Bib Place Cat. Place Pace Time

    2016







    2015


    Detroit Free Press/Talmer Bank Marathon




    Detroit Free Press/Talmer Bank Marathon


    U.S. HALF







    HALF MARATHON


    CATHERINE JUON







    CATHERINE JUON


    SALINE/MI







    SALINE/MI


    45







    44


    31042







    15523


    434







    4626


    12







    333


    9:43/mi







    10:25/mi


    2:07:18







    2:16:44

    2014 Detroit Free Press/Talmer Bank Marathon HALF MARATHON CATHERINE JUON SALINE/MI 43 24192 5661 407 10:58/mi 2:23:50



    -----

    5k (all from same course)

    2016: 28:29: 5/62

    2015: 30:08: 20/92

    2014: 31:17: 25/95 

    Thank you! Nice to go to sleep tonight knowing that great minds are helping me figure things out. :-)

  • @Catherine... This might be easier to understand. If you do a quality all out 5k test and put the numbers into this calculator it will tell you with pretty good accuracy your projected finish times for other distances and more importantly for our OS purposes... your zones for interval sessions...

    http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm
  • @Ed --Fair enough!

    @Gordon--Thought about your very good questions over night, and a couple of things clicked. I'll write a more thoughtful response after the days meetings are done--just wanted to let ya'll know I'm feeling better / clearer about things.

    THANK YOU!
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