@Coach Patrick - Thats fine, I will load the get faster plan and start to follow that as much as I can next week, and still be aware not to over stress the knees just incase. Will be in touch with progress...thanks.
@CoachPatrick - forgot to ask you, do you think is ok now to go get that VO2 max run test done that have for free? Or should I wait to get it done for a few more weeks, as I am into the next training plan?
@Brian Smith - I would like you to have 2 to 3 weeks of "normal" running under your belt first. There's a lot of skill related to your running that needs to get sorted out before you actually test. Otherwise the data will be muddled by your lack of run efficiency/familiarity.
Sounds good thanks...will start the get faster program this week, a bit under the weather with the stomach flu the east few days, not fun....got to love the last few days of the kids school and one brings it home with them!
Being that I am on the get GF 10 week plan now, when will you want to cross over to start the IM Plan, being that the time will cross over I think? Please advise.
Thanks. Brian.
PS: Family vacation in the third week of July so I will only have access to be able to run, will need to plan accordingly.
Coach P...I noticed in watching a video this evening that the full plan is 20 weeks, and the timer you have not he site for IM LOU is 22 weeks away I think, unless I am mistaken...thoughts on which direction I shod head to in two weeks, stay on the GF or move to the full 20 week program?
@Brian Smith - I can't tell you how happy you have made me by telling me you actually watch our videos! My tiny coach heart thinks you.
Yes the four plan is 20 weeks, but Endurance Nation members only do the last 12 weeks. We have better ways to get you a fit like they get fast plan then we do by forcing you to do the general build up.
So to answer your point, you will want to transition to the Iron Man plan when there are 12 weeks to go. I don't have your calendar in front of me, so I hope that makes sense!
You still have plenty of time from your vacation to race day, so I'm not super worried. My general advice is to have you make the second week of July have a significant bike focus. This means do the Wednesday bike on Tuesday, on Thursday do your Sunday ride a BP for about 90 minutes, Saturday ride as planned, and Sunday ride study in zone one/zone two for as long as you can up to five hours.
Then I'm vacation you can do your two key runs and all the other days do a 30 to 45 minute session nice and steady. When you return back to the regular plan but keep it easy for 2 to 3 days to get back in the rhythm. I can answer more specific questions as you get closer
Thanks for the feedback and clarification...I was a bit confused after watching the video on the 20 week plan hence my question...
One other topic, I have to swap all the days around for training this week and it will happen other times as well, no big deal or a big deal? Like last night I had to do the Sunday ride indoors versus the swim, Tuesday doing the Wednesday, Monday doing Tuesday, etc. You can see it on my TP plan if you care to check it.
Does it matter if I have to brick some days, or if I have to do more bike heavy for a few days then run heavy for a few days?
Also, didn't really have the legs tonight on the trainer, hard to get the heart rate up on the trainer without killing my legs early and not being able to hold the higher gears in order to get heart rate up...noticing that I am more consistent in pacing at a lower cadence with various gears on the trainer, not sure if that matters, thoughts on that?
@Brian Smith - thanks for the bump. I was away this weekend at a training camp, and I'm in the middle of a two day work retreat so time is tough. I am 100% OK with you swap your workouts around, the key is that we don't want to stack the long run right next to any of the long rides. So your "Thursday" has to be far away from your "weekend."
As you go through the sessions, by mixing them up you will undoubtedly feel some extra fatigue. In that case you have two options. First I would recommend that you send the rest because your body is clearly feeling the fatigue. Second option would be to get the workout done for time but dial back the intensity.
As for your cycling, that's a good question. Remember that your heart rate will always be lower on the trainer, because you're not balancing your bike and there are no changes with the elements or terrain. Sometimes the inability to get your heart rate revved is simply a function of fatigue. Your body is somehow inhibited from doing the work that would lead to a higher heart rate, so in your case it's not worth fighting it to make it happen.
Lower cadences are tempted or tempting in training for control, but truth is most of them involve so much torque that went outside they are useless since you can't run off a bike with the super low rpm's. Your choice about shifting down a gear to make it a little bit harder, but if you plan to do a big changes that may backfire on you. Let's see how the workouts go over the next week or so.
Thanks for the above... question a local try shop is having what they call a DIY Tri this Saturday (weather permitting), were by they watch all your gear and you can do either a sprint or olympic distances for a training day, I was thinking of doing it for a test run on open water swimming, etc. Not timed just three sports in the day with someone to watch your gear in the "Temp Transition Area"...thoughts on it as it relates to the trainmen plan?
I live in the city so we need people to watch our gear! ha
@Brian Smith - I think that's a great idea. Anytime you have a chance to back swim session up on the bike or a bike in a run is a great opportunity to see how your fitness and nutrition instructions online now. I would recommend it, and have that be your only session for the day. You can then move the more important of the Saturday and Sunday workouts to the next day!
Great thanks...shall I do the Sprint or the Olympic, as they are setting up for both options for people, I do not want to overdo something or under do, (is that a word) when it comes to the GF plan training.
It is unfortunately on the lakefront trail that will be packed with CARA Runners at that time of day so bike and run times will very of course I think...
Sounds like a plan, first time in a full suit in open water, so we will see how that goes, as I pool train, only chance i can at the moment.
One more thing, tomorrow, light swim or light bike and run?
I hope to get out of traffic to light up the bike, unfortunately there is about 1/2 mile that is part of a pedestrian area near Navy Pier here, but will do what I can, the run shod be easier. I will push as much as possible on them and let you know how it goes.
@Brian Smith - Great to chat yesterday. As I mentioned, don't get too disheartened about what happened in the race, that's all we have early season races!
Besides, you have another is coming up at the end of July and I would rather you focus on that. Here's what I want you to do:
- Stay on the Get Fast plan and continue training. - Add an extra bike workout in during the holiday week. Hopefully you can get that done.
- While you are away you're free to swim and run it out, the most important workouts are the long-run in the interval run. Rest of the time could just be easy steady state efforts in the 30- to 40-minute range to burn calories. - When you come back you will have one week of "taper" into your Olympic. I suggest that you switch over to the last week of the 20 week EN*Half plan so you can follow the taper into your race for that week.
- Once you are through the olympic, you can either finish up Get Fast -- or -- Load up the 20-week EN*Full plan pointing to Louisville and we can start getting our strategy on.
Hey Coach Patrick, Back from holidays and have a busy week this week coming up at work, not fun, but what can you do. You can look at the training peaks when you get the chance and see the runs and rides, per the above. The runs were way hot, mid 90's plus and humidity over 90 percent, not great runs but got some leg work in when possible.
I am going to load up the last week of the half as you said to taper this week for the short course race next weekend, but when do you want me to load the full IM plan for IM Louisville, and next steps, would love some pointers to get me to the right levels needed for IM Louisville...Let me know. Thanks. Brian...
@Brian Smith - thanks for your patience man. I don't normally check peoples Trinity's accounts, so when I have to go do that just a little bit of logistical time.
I want you to taper this week and I'm going to be Olympic and have a blast. My only concern for the last couple weeks is just a lack of cycling but you have plenty of time to get that in order before Louisville.
Once you are through the Olympic it's time to load up the Louisville plan to end on 10/16. You will have about 11 weeks to race during which time our focus will be primarily on getting the bike workouts in to build them up.
If you've a chance to get in any bike volume over a particular weekend in September, such as Labor Day, that would be awesome. I am thinking something like back to back four or five our rides. We just need one early "we can spike the volume which will really help. You can let me know about that.
Thanks for the info, I am sure I can fit the longer bike rides in during the time frame you staetd, work had killed me in the past weeks and have been doing 16 hours days so my bike volume went down for sure.
I am very concerned about the swim, rather tan the bike for me physically, but I guess that will be covered in the next 12 weeks or so? I will load the plan on Sunday post Saturday race and start that day on the other plan. Any other pointers let me know. If there is a video I should watch, or podcast to listen to etc.
@Brian Smith - it's OK if work has been killing you, as a lot of training in that timeframe wouldn't have done you very much anyway. It's the next three months that matter most. I'm sure there will still be challenges, but we can work together!
I understand your concern about the swim that is honestly a frequency thing. You can demonstrate how concerned you are but making sure you get to the pool at least twice a week maybe with the option to go little longer with a third swim on the weekends if your schedule allows. I know it's the most time intensive activity so let's see what we can do. Regardless, you have room to do lots of extra swimming in the last few weeks as well.
Most of the time people's concern about the swim this related to their overall well-being versus speed. But On race day it's all about speed which is why I say bike. The bike is something like 65% of the total race distance, Every bit of bike fitness makes a big difference! There are videos in every week of your new training plan that will walk you through the process. If you haven't already, I do recommend you check out these videos/resources:
* The sweat test under resources/wiki/nutrition as we need to start practicing your race plan in every long training session.
*The training plan overview video under resources/training plan Central, find your plan in the right navigation. That gives you a sense of the total layout of the plan as well as basic benchmarks.
But don't freak out too much, I want to make sure you have a good rest this weekend first as that's just as important!
Thanks for the info above. When you say "Most of the time people's concern about the swim this related to their overall well-being versus speed." are you speaking about fitness or the ability to actually do the swim? Juts so I am clear.
As for the sweat test, do you want me to do that sooner than later, just so I can plan for it accordingly? I have watched the videos on the Fill Plan page that you and Rich had made over the years, but are you speaking about other videos that will be on the sides of the plan, just so I am clear there as well.
Second to last question, since I am doing a short race on Saturday you want me to load the full plan and start training on Sunday or Monday, as you mentioned rest this weekend so I assume you mean we start Monday.
And the final question, now that I am making you work hard to answer these...in one of the videos you (or Rich) not sure who, mentioned that you do not have rest days in the plan if I remember right, (was on the bike when watching it so I want to make sure I heard this right), does that mean we are to choose our own rest days during the trainmen in the last 3 months before the race?
@Brian Smith - yes I am talking about survival, not speed. There is a lot of underlying anxiety that surrounds the swim and manifests itself in different ways.
About the sweat test, yes please do it sooner rather than later. The sooner you can start practicing that the better off you'll be. There will undoubtedly be some adjustments we will need to make so I would prefer we have more time to do just that.
Yes, I say we start on Monday. Let's have one more weekend that is fairly light before we wrap things up. Before I forget, I mean videos in the sidebar of your training plan. Every plant has its own set of videos and they will show up each week as needed.
Yes, you are right about the rest days. We are fairly flexible with adding more rest earlier in the season, but once we were in race prep consistency trumps all else. Not everyone needs a rest day every week, but everybody benefits from being rested. I like to give you the wiggle room to decide. I personally use my Monday as a "swing" Day. If I feel great I do everything. If I'm kind of 50-50, I will likely just swim. And if I'm pretty tired, as in I don't want to get out of bed or train, then I give myself the day off.
No one has ever had a problem showing up to race day being too rested! It's easy to just beat yourself up, but it's not easy to follow a plan that will actually make. Those two things are very different.
You also have an option of swimming only on Friday, or taking Friday off instead… Or sometimes as well if you are super tired. We can talk more about this to see if Ickes wants to get into the training week. By that point time you will know which workouts are manageable and which ones are truly very costly.
Hey Coach P, a couple of things...for the run test on Thursday this week, can I try and schedule that free VO2 max test that I have in the bank at my local gym in place of this test? We spoke about it a while back and you mentioned to hold off on it until later on training. Let me know.
Not sure I can't it scheduled but if so it would be great to get it done...after all it is free!
Wanted to give you a quick overview of the little charity short course race this past weekend...my feedback on how I felt and how it went.
- Weather was terrible rained the whole time, flood lake rain, not fun (well maybe a little fun). I had a gear issue the night before when i was checking out my bike and had to drive 2.5 hours back to Chicago to get a part and then fix it on my return to Michigan so I only slept about 3 hours, so I was a bit tired...
- Swim: got beat up in the group start of about 30 people in my wave so I sat up and let most of them pass by and breast stroked for about 20 yards then back at it. Was not very efficient on the swim, heart rate all over the place, water wast 84 degrees to not wetsuit legal, was just uncomfortable in the swim, not very good, lost all mechanics and could not get a rhythm, had to break on 2 strokes over my normal 3. I did a short warm up swim prior and was fine, not sure what happened, ended up out of the water 3rd or 4th from the last in my wave.
- Bike: Was slippery and rolling terrain, but over all it was ok, I could not get my heart rate down, but also being a short race I was pushing it as well to try and go as fast as possible within the conditions, I think I averages 20 mph. heart rate was a constant 156'ish most of the time per the Garmin, you can see the stats on TP. if you care to. Passed about 20 people on the bike and worked within the rules from EN on the inclines, staying seated, etc., really tried to follow the EN way in that regard.
- Run: Immediate calf cramps especially the right one, right off the bike, and lasted for about a mile and a half, then it subsided a little, but still was cramped up, not sure why as I was fully hydrated (had to pee terribly), had the proper nutrition before, and based on what I have watched and read, not sure why I stayed so cramped up. I pushed the run as well and keep the heart rate pretty high, was running in the 8's for the whole short run, which is much faster than I normally run. Felt good to be pouring rain though I tell you, as the humidity climbed drastically into the 80-90% range in a very short time.
It only had about 150 people in it, I had fun with it, finished 4th in my age group and 38 overall, not very concerned about positions, but it was good to see that so far on the bike I can catch and pass most of those that swam by me like I was going backwards. Still swim concerns, on my end, but I am sure we can figure a way to help me over come that before October.
Sweat test result: Before: 184.5 After: 181.4 Lost: 3.1
3.1 x 16 = 49.6 oz 3.1 x 24 = 74.4 oz
What about salt loss? 1,000 mg per hour?
A lot of weight lost during the sweat test, not sure I can stomach that much liquid per hour to refill, is that even possible?
Also, did the bike test on the road bike on the trainer and my numbers stayed exactly the same in the calculated zones, unless I am figuring it out wrong...how is that possible, as I am much more fit now than during the last test.
@Brian Smith - thanks for the bump...just back from Placid so not a lot of work done online in the last few days.
the race sounds good good except those admin issues. Not sure on the calf cramp other than you might have pushed the bike a bit too much?
for the Sweat test I'd start with working towards 2 bottles an hour. So start with a bottle every 40 minutes and take 5' off that interval every subsequent week.
Lets aim for 800 to 1,000 mgs per hour - do the math on what your drink gets you first before we add anything else.
And remind me again what what you drink, please!!
Power test, hard to say! You could be fatigued or maybe the test was a different set up or outdoors vs inside? If your numbers are up in training, then we can use those numbers instead...some folks simply don't test well!!
Comments
Being that I am on the get GF 10 week plan now, when will you want to cross over to start the IM Plan, being that the time will cross over I think? Please advise.
Thanks.
Brian.
PS: Family vacation in the third week of July so I will only have access to be able to run, will need to plan accordingly.
You still have plenty of time from your vacation to race day, so I'm not super worried. My general advice is to have you make the second week of July have a significant bike focus. This means do the Wednesday bike on Tuesday, on Thursday do your Sunday ride a BP for about 90 minutes, Saturday ride as planned, and Sunday ride study in zone one/zone two for as long as you can up to five hours.
Thanks for the feedback and clarification...I was a bit confused after watching the video on the 20 week plan hence my question...
One other topic, I have to swap all the days around for training this week and it will happen other times as well, no big deal or a big deal? Like last night I had to do the Sunday ride indoors versus the swim, Tuesday doing the Wednesday, Monday doing Tuesday, etc. You can see it on my TP plan if you care to check it.
Does it matter if I have to brick some days, or if I have to do more bike heavy for a few days then run heavy for a few days?
Also, didn't really have the legs tonight on the trainer, hard to get the heart rate up on the trainer without killing my legs early and not being able to hold the higher gears in order to get heart rate up...noticing that I am more consistent in pacing at a lower cadence with various gears on the trainer, not sure if that matters, thoughts on that?
Lower cadences are tempted or tempting in training for control, but truth is most of them involve so much torque that went outside they are useless since you can't run off a bike with the super low rpm's. Your choice about shifting down a gear to make it a little bit harder, but if you plan to do a big changes that may backfire on you. Let's see how the workouts go over the next week or so.
Thanks for the above... question a local try shop is having what they call a DIY Tri this Saturday (weather permitting), were by they watch all your gear and you can do either a sprint or olympic distances for a training day, I was thinking of doing it for a test run on open water swimming, etc. Not timed just three sports in the day with someone to watch your gear in the "Temp Transition Area"...thoughts on it as it relates to the trainmen plan?
I live in the city so we need people to watch our gear! ha
Great thanks...shall I do the Sprint or the Olympic, as they are setting up for both options for people, I do not want to overdo something or under do, (is that a word) when it comes to the GF plan training.
It is unfortunately on the lakefront trail that will be packed with CARA Runners at that time of day so bike and run times will very of course I think...
Sounds like a plan, first time in a full suit in open water, so we will see how that goes, as I pool train, only chance i can at the moment.
One more thing, tomorrow, light swim or light bike and run?
I hope to get out of traffic to light up the bike, unfortunately there is about 1/2 mile that is part of a pedestrian area near Navy Pier here, but will do what I can, the run shod be easier. I will push as much as possible on them and let you know how it goes.
- Add an extra bike workout in during the holiday week. Hopefully you can get that done.
- When you come back you will have one week of "taper" into your Olympic. I suggest that you switch over to the last week of the 20 week EN*Half plan so you can follow the taper into your race for that week.
Hey Coach Patrick, Back from holidays and have a busy week this week coming up at work, not fun, but what can you do. You can look at the training peaks when you get the chance and see the runs and rides, per the above. The runs were way hot, mid 90's plus and humidity over 90 percent, not great runs but got some leg work in when possible.
I am going to load up the last week of the half as you said to taper this week for the short course race next weekend, but when do you want me to load the full IM plan for IM Louisville, and next steps, would love some pointers to get me to the right levels needed for IM Louisville...Let me know. Thanks. Brian...
Once you are through the Olympic it's time to load up the Louisville plan to end on 10/16. You will have about 11 weeks to race during which time our focus will be primarily on getting the bike workouts in to build them up.
If you've a chance to get in any bike volume over a particular weekend in September, such as Labor Day, that would be awesome. I am thinking something like back to back four or five our rides. We just need one early "we can spike the volume which will really help. You can let me know about that.
Good luck this weekend!!
~ Coach P
Thanks for the info, I am sure I can fit the longer bike rides in during the time frame you staetd, work had killed me in the past weeks and have been doing 16 hours days so my bike volume went down for sure.
I am very concerned about the swim, rather tan the bike for me physically, but I guess that will be covered in the next 12 weeks or so? I will load the plan on Sunday post Saturday race and start that day on the other plan. Any other pointers let me know. If there is a video I should watch, or podcast to listen to etc.
Thanks.
Brian
There are videos in every week of your new training plan that will walk you through the process. If you haven't already, I do recommend you check out these videos/resources:
Thanks for the info above. When you say "Most of the time people's concern about the swim this related to their overall well-being versus speed." are you speaking about fitness or the ability to actually do the swim? Juts so I am clear.
As for the sweat test, do you want me to do that sooner than later, just so I can plan for it accordingly? I have watched the videos on the Fill Plan page that you and Rich had made over the years, but are you speaking about other videos that will be on the sides of the plan, just so I am clear there as well.
Second to last question, since I am doing a short race on Saturday you want me to load the full plan and start training on Sunday or Monday, as you mentioned rest this weekend so I assume you mean we start Monday.
And the final question, now that I am making you work hard to answer these...in one of the videos you (or Rich) not sure who, mentioned that you do not have rest days in the plan if I remember right, (was on the bike when watching it so I want to make sure I heard this right), does that mean we are to choose our own rest days during the trainmen in the last 3 months before the race?
Thanks again...cheers.
No one has ever had a problem showing up to race day being too rested! It's easy to just beat yourself up, but it's not easy to follow a plan that will actually make. Those two things are very different.
You also have an option of swimming only on Friday, or taking Friday off instead… Or sometimes as well if you are super tired. We can talk more about this to see if Ickes wants to get into the training week. By that point time you will know which workouts are manageable and which ones are truly very costly.
Hey Coach P, a couple of things...for the run test on Thursday this week, can I try and schedule that free VO2 max test that I have in the bank at my local gym in place of this test? We spoke about it a while back and you mentioned to hold off on it until later on training. Let me know.
Not sure I can't it scheduled but if so it would be great to get it done...after all it is free!
Wanted to give you a quick overview of the little charity short course race this past weekend...my feedback on how I felt and how it went.
- Weather was terrible rained the whole time, flood lake rain, not fun (well maybe a little fun). I had a gear issue the night before when i was checking out my bike and had to drive 2.5 hours back to Chicago to get a part and then fix it on my return to Michigan so I only slept about 3 hours, so I was a bit tired...
- Swim: got beat up in the group start of about 30 people in my wave so I sat up and let most of them pass by and breast stroked for about 20 yards then back at it. Was not very efficient on the swim, heart rate all over the place, water wast 84 degrees to not wetsuit legal, was just uncomfortable in the swim, not very good, lost all mechanics and could not get a rhythm, had to break on 2 strokes over my normal 3. I did a short warm up swim prior and was fine, not sure what happened, ended up out of the water 3rd or 4th from the last in my wave.
- Bike: Was slippery and rolling terrain, but over all it was ok, I could not get my heart rate down, but also being a short race I was pushing it as well to try and go as fast as possible within the conditions, I think I averages 20 mph. heart rate was a constant 156'ish most of the time per the Garmin, you can see the stats on TP. if you care to. Passed about 20 people on the bike and worked within the rules from EN on the inclines, staying seated, etc., really tried to follow the EN way in that regard.
- Run: Immediate calf cramps especially the right one, right off the bike, and lasted for about a mile and a half, then it subsided a little, but still was cramped up, not sure why as I was fully hydrated (had to pee terribly), had the proper nutrition before, and based on what I have watched and read, not sure why I stayed so cramped up. I pushed the run as well and keep the heart rate pretty high, was running in the 8's for the whole short run, which is much faster than I normally run. Felt good to be pouring rain though I tell you, as the humidity climbed drastically into the 80-90% range in a very short time.
It only had about 150 people in it, I had fun with it, finished 4th in my age group and 38 overall, not very concerned about positions, but it was good to see that so far on the bike I can catch and pass most of those that swam by me like I was going backwards. Still swim concerns, on my end, but I am sure we can figure a way to help me over come that before October.
Thanks for your help!
Sweat test result:
Before: 184.5
After: 181.4
Lost: 3.1
3.1 x 16 = 49.6 oz
3.1 x 24 = 74.4 oz
What about salt loss? 1,000 mg per hour?
A lot of weight lost during the sweat test, not sure I can stomach that much liquid per hour to refill, is that even possible?
Also, did the bike test on the road bike on the trainer and my numbers stayed exactly the same in the calculated zones, unless I am figuring it out wrong...how is that possible, as I am much more fit now than during the last test.
bump
the race sounds good good except those admin issues. Not sure on the calf cramp other than you might have pushed the bike a bit too much?
for the Sweat test I'd start with working towards 2 bottles an hour. So start with a bottle every 40 minutes and take 5' off that interval every subsequent week.
Lets aim for 800 to 1,000 mgs per hour - do the math on what your drink gets you first before we add anything else.
And remind me again what what you drink, please!!
Power test, hard to say! You could be fatigued or maybe the test was a different set up or outdoors vs inside? If your numbers are up in training, then we can use those numbers instead...some folks simply don't test well!!