2017 JOS Wk 9 Bike Thread - No Snappy Title

scott dinhofer

Sorry folks, the creative juices just aren't there... I am fully immersed in HIM Week 19 as I head to Puerto Rico with roughly 18 EN Teammates for the PR 70.3 on 3/19 - Lots of firggin good work going on in here. We've all got new test numbers, so if you started feeling comfy with your old FTP & Vdot, it's time to up the work effort and get used to being uncomfortable some more!

Phil Mills

After missing 2/3 bike wko's from last week, I'm gathering the motivation to get them all in as prescribed for this week.  Keeping up with the weight loss challenge is beating me like a pinata and taking my motivation with it.  

71'
2x12'@ .95 & .94
2x6'@ .94 & .95

Todd Bray

Week 9 Tuesday ride completed during lunch today and I felt fairly good with the new FTP target. I had to skip the extra 10 minutes of Z3 work today but may do and easy recovery ride before running this evening if I feel up to it.

Both 20' intervals were ridden at 100% of my new FTP (239) and I didn't really struggle until the last few minutes of the second one. It's funny how 2-3 minutes can seem like a lifetime sometimes and I'm trying very hard to just focus on my breathing and forget about what I'm doing in those moments.

Here's today's work: https://www.strava.com/activities/891137050

Francis Picard

Just completed my 2X20'

first one : 253
second : 255

FTP is set at 255.

That was hard but happy that I almost hit the target!

Gordon Cherwoniak

@Phil Mills The weight loss can be troublesome.  I'm just relearning this as I start to balance the caloric deficit with trying to do hard workouts.  Up until this point of the OS I've been on the ~1 lb a week and eating pretty freely.  I'm now on the core diet, off the pop/caffeine and am feeling it this week.  I've told myself even if I have to triage the set or do just .85 work on the bike it's worth it.  Remember you also started in an earlier OS so you've been at longer that us JOS'ers 

My workout today was the hardest of the OS barring testing.  3X12(2').  First I had to triage and take 5' rest periods.  I knew I was tired and low energy coming in even on the warm up.  After the 2nd interval I had a failed 3rd attempt 2' in, took another 4' and restarted getting in the 12'.  Lost all of my .85 time to extra rest and the blow up but got the work in.m  Looking forward to the shorter and easier, for me, Vo2 session.

Here's the link

https://www.strava.com/activities/890847793http://

Phil Mills

@Gordon Cherwoniak - great points to put things into perspective, thank you.  I working to get over the hit .95-1.00 or it doesn't count mentality.  Today was a big step in that direction.  I set the resistance low to ensure I got the work in. The first two sets went fine.  To keep from blowing up the last set I split into two 6' intervals with 3' or rest.  

The weight loss is another animal that will have to be modified lest the wheels completely come off the cart.  

Jeff Kane

Did today's wok yesterday. With new numbers and on shelled legs from the 1/2 Mary this weekend I didn't hit my target numbers. I did fight the whole time. Legs are good now! Ready for Thursday!! Keep grindin' team!!

Jorge Duque

This is the second workout with the new target numbers and it's definitely tougher. By the end of the third 12' set was pushing very hard to stay in Z4; had to quit with one minute left on the set, but still could get through a 15' ride on Z3 afterwards.

Hoping it gets easier in a couple weeks. 

Paul Curtin

Was not feeling 2 x 20 today; plan B was 4 x 4' with a long warm up and warm down.  Super-high spinning is a great way to get warmed up

https://www.strava.com/activities/891602722

Jason Veith

Yikes that ride was hard!!  But felt good after it was done.  My butt (sit bones) started to hurt just a bit with about 5 mins left on the ride.  Not sure what that was about.  I also decided to see what it would feel like to reach the power numbers by getting my cadence up.  So I took an easier gear and pedaled faster!!

Also, not sure why there are so many power drop-outs.  I'm using virtual power with TrainerRoad, so I wonder if I had my laptop just a bit too far away.

https://www.strava.com/activities/891620081

scott dinhofer

I guess the good thing about being on the HIM plan is that it's a PITA to peek at what I am missing in the OS.. 
did my 3x6@FTP + 2x8@75%, swam a whole bunch of hard 100s this am and trying to motivate for a run!

Paul Curtin

Good ride @Jason Veith -- I think it's helpful to work on pushing power at various cadences.  It looks like you were in the mid-80's for the main sets.  What is your normal cadence for those?

Jason Veith

Thank @Paul Curtin 
For most of the first 8wks, I would have an avg cadence in the mid-upper 70's (sometimes pushing 80) on a harder gear.   I need to go back and compare a few workouts to see how things compared with a harder gear/lower cadence vs ligher gear/higher cadence.

- Jason

Paul Curtin

Hi Jason - having a wider range of cadence will help, especially on a course like IM 70.3 Ohio.  I have not ridden that course, but it's likely rollers and varying winds so cadence will fluctuate even with frequent shifting.  If your natural cadence is say 78, consider spending time at 72 and 86 so you get a good feel for a practical race-day range.  I spin a bit higher - mostly between 82 and 96 - that seems to work best for me

Sid Wavrin

Tuesday bike for me was 3x12(2). First two intervals went great holding the new power numbers from the recent test. Third one was tough, but I was able to hang on. Ended with zone three riding for a total of about 120 minutes at .92 IF. I was happy to see I could hang on to the increase in power numbers! Great work everyone!

scott dinhofer

@Francis Picard - darned strong sets assuming those are new FTP #s!!!
@Phil Mills & @Gordon Cherwoniak - good points on the diet issue, having the discipline to diet and not recognizing how that affects your WKO is clearly important and may explain why i've had trouble hitting some bike #ss.. Remember to eat what carbs you may have, right before a wko for best wko and effect on your diet!
@Jeff Kane - as long as you were punching the gorilla it counts, good work on tired legs!
@Jorge Duque - I've always fretted with how hard the new WKOs are without dropping back the volume as much.. definitly takes a special blend of mental toughness at this point in the OS
@Jason Veith - I've got those sit bone issues anytime i am on a trainer > 45 mins or a road bike without getting out of the saddle... have yet to find a saddle that helps? wish i knew the TR issue, I've had some in the past, knock wood, none now.
@Sid Wavrin - THAT is a super strong set.. remember these intervals are supposed to be at .95-1.0, to do 2 of 3 at the new #s raises the question if you are working hard enough.. sounds like you are right on the edge, where you should be!

William Jenks

I tried to post on Monday before the thread went up...sorry for being delayed...did my test as I said I would last week.  Came in right at 250 FTP, up a few watts from the starting 246... but to be honest, that's very good, given that I started pretty high given some fall riding, and the sick week I had beforehand.  So I'm happy.

Tomorrow I leave with OJ (my daughter) for her race in Sarasota, and then to a tri camp for several days where i'll be thrashing myself but riding cleanup because those kids are so good. It'll be a lot of fun, but unorthodox for OS.  I'll send some posts on what we're up to.

Hope everyone else is doing well too

Phil Mills

Slayed a couple of gorillas this morning...well almost.  The first one was just getting out of bed and not succumbing to the snooze button.  30 minutes later, I was on my feet; battle won.

As to the second gorilla, I was certain he was beaten down, until I reviewed the data.  Due to my inability to count to 12 this morning, I only completed 11/12 interval minutes.  He was able to limp away when I wasn't looking.

43' due to snoozing.
2x2'@ 1.17 & 1.20
7x1'@ 1.18, 1.19, 1.21, 1.23, 1.23, 1.26 & 1.23

https://www.strava.com/activities/893350748

It was a good morning.

Todd Bray

Thursday bike/ brick run is complete and I decided to mix thing up a bit today. I've been playing with the custom workout option in Trainer Road and decided to do the second set of V02 intervals at 1 minute "on" with 45" rest. I completed nine of these intervals in addition to the 16 30/30's.

I'm curious how you guys feel about the effectiveness of continuing to do these 30/30's? After nine weeks of doing them are they still as effective in "raising the ceiling" as say some longer V02 work (i.e. 3 x 3's/4x4's etc.)? Just something I've wondered about.....

Here's today's wko: 

https://www.strava.com/activities/893593751

https://www.strava.com/activities/893638712

Keep up the great work everyone!!

Paul Curtin

Todd Bray said:

I'm curious how you guys feel about the effectiveness of continuing to do these 30/30's? After nine weeks of doing them are they still as effective in "raising the ceiling" as say some longer V02 work (i.e. 3 x 3's/4x4's etc.)? 

Todd - on today's ride your power was the same during the 1' set as it was for the 30"; heart rate was higher as expected.  Maybe consider cranking up the power on the 30-second sets - do they feel too easy?

Definitely consider some longer sets now that we're in week 9.  For Tuesday's WKO I skipped the 2x20' and went with 4x4' @Z5 power; that was a nice change of pace

Jeff Kane

After being on the road for two days and getting over 18 hours of sleep, I crushed the bike and brick today. Averaged 310w for the intervals and a strong 30 minute run. Looking forward to hitting some good running this weekend!

Francis Picard

@Todd Bray I decided to go back on the 4' VO2, since bike is my limited, that was the decision Patrick and I made. I think the 30' are good.. but they should make us go back on the old format after 9-10 weeks.

Catherine Branch

Todd Bray said:

I'm curious how you guys feel about the effectiveness of continuing to do these 30/30's? After nine weeks of doing them are they still as effective in "raising the ceiling" as say some longer V02 work (i.e. 3 x 3's/4x4's etc.)? Just something I've wondered about.....

I'm also wondering about this.  The FTP intervals seem so much more taxing (in a good way), but I cruise through the V02 intervals, even at the top of zone 5.  (That said, I did my first set of them after the test at low zn5, but it was easy).  I read somewhere that if your 5-min test is over 120% of your FTP, it may be worth it to do more FTP work, rather than V02 work -- your ceiling is high enough until your FTP increases.  But I don't know where I read that and I can't find it again!  That said, I'm thinking about jumping into a Zwift hard ride on Thursdays, rather than the V02 wko.  BUT ... I've made some real gains this OS just following the program.  BUT BUT ... could I make more gains?  

edited because I can't quote correctly.

Paul Curtin

Thanks @Catherine Branch -- that seems like a pretty good rule-of-thumb for how to focus your workouts ... and it makes perfect sense.  Our current OS workouts seem to be stacked with more FTP-type work that what I remember from last year's OS.

I think the answer to your question is "probably yes".  We're supposed to do the VO2 work at zone 5 power, or 1.2x FTP.  Others may not agree with this ... but 1.2x is just not high enough if you really want to raise the roof.  The issue is our bodies can't absorb super-high VO2 sets and the hard running that's in the OS plan.  I say if you're feeling strong and not run down from the week's workouts, switch to the Zwift ride.  It's all about balance.

This week I missed Monday's strength and Tuesday's run due to work days that went sideways.  Instead of making them up I pushed extra hard on yesterday's VO2 sets (1.65x on the 30-second sets).  I am definitely feeling it today, but hopefully that will help increase power across all zones.

Gordon Cherwoniak

Good discussion on the Vo2 work. 

Previously we did have 30/30's, 1', 2' @ 1.2. I believe we also did longer 4'-5' sets at 110%.  I'm the guy who can typically can push the 1.20+ on the 5' test and like a slightly longer interval 1-1.5' is decent work 2'@1.2 were tough. 

The 1.20 +/- or comes from quite a few years back and is a gauge for if you ceiling is hitting your roof or you have lots of room to grow. <1.2 you could probably use more Vo2 work, while above that you have lots of room to push up the FTP and could possible focus on FTP work more. 

I'd definitely fire up a thread in the Micro forum with Patrick if you are going off book as too much high intensity can burn you out fast. 

Pretty much all OS I've been doing 1' intervals @1.2 but I also have not been running much.  I also came in with poor fitness and have recently been struggling based on a number of factors including; nutrition (caloric reduction, no caffeine the last week); limited sleep and OS bike intensity.

Catherine Branch

Agreed that this is a good discussion.  Due to scheduling, I had to do Saturday's wko today -- felt pretty strong and was bumping up against my FTP (IF = 0.99 for all intervals).  Not going to monkey with FTP yet -- I think I tested well -- but it makes me think even more that the VO2 wko isn't providing enough stimulus.  At least, my legs don't seem to feel it.  Of course, the answer could be that I need to beef up my running more -- I'd consider myself a mid-pack swimmer, poor cyclist, and abysmal runner!  Eh.  Not a decision that needs to be made today.  Next week!

Francis Picard

I did the Sat's wkout today, that one was tuff, wasnt able to hold targeted power and I guess it might be related to yesterday 4X4' vo2. Might also the new FTP that hit me in the face, anyhow, its done!

https://www.strava.com/activities/894817175

Jeff Kane

Reported Tuesday's wko today. Kept 1-3 watts above FTP for all 3 sets. Made the run a bit more interesting!

Gordon Cherwoniak

 Well my flame out continues.  Had to make a quick Vo2 session and power was just not really there again on Friday.  got in 7 of 10 1' intervals.  As much as I don't want to I'm standing down from the weekend bike to see if that brings me around. 

https://www.strava.com/activities/897718388

Joseph Lombardi

A week of business travel resulted in a mixed bag ...some nice running in sunny California ...were I bumped in to fellow EN gangsta Dino Sarti....but I had to give up one bike session...on Tuesday before I left I did Sufferfest Revilver 16x1:00 (avg 275NP)...and yesterday I did Sufferfest Local Hero...a strong 90 min session @ .95IF....finished the week with 10mile run today....

Phil Mills

It was a rough weekend of narrow windows for getting the work in.  The early AM's weren't happening and no other time to work it in.  Managed a late AM start on Sunday, but only enough to squeeze in 45'.  Haven't tested in a while, a don't plan to until week 14, so I am swagging my ftp number down a bit to capture where it should be.  Will start this on Tuesday's wko.

3x6'@ .96, 1.01 & .99

https://www.strava.com/activities/897438236