@Tony Ledden- this is a classic case of what does not kill you makes you stronger! Kudos to you for getting it done and no worries about not getting off the bike to be more. At some point your assistant can only absorb so much work… Sounds like you're going to have to focus on that for the next couple days so you can process all of this fatigue. Nicely done!
Question on Training Plan: I'm entering Week 11 of the IM Intermediate Plan beginning Monday, July 3. I'm racing the Racine 70.3 on Sunday July 16. My plan is to complete week 11 of the IM Intermediate as planned beginning Monday July 3, and then beginning Monday July 10 move into week 20 (race week) of the HIM-Intermediate plan I used for the Wisconsin 70.3 back on June 11.Does this sound reasonable to you? Does this leave enough time / training schedule for a good taper to Racine?
@Tony Ledden - perfect! That is exactly what I would advise. Yes, that should be sufficient time to taper… But let's check in and see how you feel on Tuesday. If you need more rest or adjustments, we can make those here.
Don't forget to search the forums for race reports to make sure you have a bullet proof plan!
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
Completed IMWI on 9/10 using the Intermediate plan and currently in transition plan heading to run durability thereafter.
Your Races
• IM Mont Tremblant 8/19/2018
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Last updated by Coach on 09/22/2017
On 9/25/2017 Load the Intermediate Run Durability 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 10/22/2017
On 10/23/2017 Load the -- Run Durability 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 11/19/2017
On 11/20/2017 Load the -- Run Durability 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/17/2017
On 12/18/2017 Load the -- Run Durability 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 1/14/2018
On 1/8/2018 Load the Intermediate OutSeason / Run Durability Plan, 14wks to end on 4/15/2018
On 4/16/2018 Load the -- Swim Camp to end on 4/29/2018
On 4/30/2018 Load the Intermediate Bike Focus Block, 6 Weeks to end on 06/10/2018
On 5/28/2018 Load the -- EN*Full to end on 8/19/2018
On 8/20/2018 Load the -- Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 9/16/2018
On 9/17/2018 Load the -- Run Durability 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 10/14/2018
Thank you Coach P -- this is an awesome plan!! Thank you for the thinking behind this season road map plan. I'm registered for the Wisconsin 70.3 on June 10, 2018 and just wanted to check that this race made it into your thinking. I may not have included this race in my original request for 2018 season planning, for which I apologize. I'm looking at Wisconsin 70.3 primarily as a warm up for IMMT, but at the same time, a large group of my training partners have signed up for it and I'd like to earn some "bragging rights" by doing well at this race. I'm thinking that I would adjust the EN full plan the week before that race -- Monday 6/4/2018 - Sat 6/9/2018 -- to reflect an HIM taper. We can discuss as June approaches. FYI, given my showing at IMWI on 9/10, there are three people in my circle of training partners that are seriously looking at EN. Just a heads up that the EN approach works!!
@Tony Ledden - We can certainly add Wisconsin into the mix. I agree with you that we will simply integrated into your larger Iron Man player built for TripLog. That’s how we would handle it regardless.
Clearly your performance speaks for itself! I would be more than happy to talk directly with your friends or answer any questions they have about Endurance Nation.
Remember you can simply send them to www.endurancenation.us/friend Where they can create their free trial and initiate the referral process (which gets them a discount).
Hi Coach! So sorry it's been a while since we've connected...Came down with patella femoral syndrome at the end of October 2017 and was in PT until early January. I've been good about the stretch and roll and strength and have kept it under control. I was able to run a 1:57 half marathon on March 18. I'm entering week 13 of the outseason and can say I don't have an injury; just a few niggles I'm trying to stay on top of. I'll be loading up the swim camp training plan on 4/16 to end 4/29 and then loading up the bike focus block on 4/30 to end 6/10.
Here is my question. As noted in the thread above, I'll be doing the Wisconsin 70.3 on 6/10 in route to IMMT on 8/19. I'll also be doing the Horribly Hilly 200K ride (http://www.horriblyhilly.com/) on 6/16. Should I change up any of the plans after completion of the outseason Run Durability on 4/15 in route to the 6/10 Wisconsin 70.3 and then IMMT on 8/19?
@Tony Ledden - it’s good to hear that you are back on track. PFS really stinks, but it is very manageable I’m glad you have it under control. I have also found success using that stretchable rock tape on the bottom of my kneecap to alleviate some of the pressure and friction.
But I digress. Your real question is what type of training you should do between now and early June when you have the 70.3 in your schedule but also this epic bike ride. For me it’s really a tossup.
From a macro level perspective I really like the idea of having you do the bike focus Block in route to your IRONMAN later in the year. I think that’s a great steppingstone/progression. But at the same time I understand how it may leave you feeling not very well prepared for the 70.3.
I guess it’s really a function of which races more Porten to you. If you want to do really well at the half, then I would load up the half plan to end on Wisconsin 70.3 after swim camp ends. Then all you have to do is extend one or two rides, Iseally that Sunday easy steady ride, to prepare you for the horribly hilly.
If you want to keep the course of a focus on IRONMAN then I would leave the bike focus plan in there but make sure that you’re adding swims. Let me know what you decide.
Thank you Coach P! I will be keeping the focus on IMMT for August 19, so I'll leave the bike focus in there and make sure to add some swims as I approach Wisconsin 70.3 on June 10.
Thank you for the rock tape tip. The PT used it on me back in December / January as part of the healing process and it helped. I think I'll go back to using it on my longer runs. I also invested in a Theragun G2Pro: https://theragun.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyuHM5qej2gIVTYF-Ch0Flw0bEAAYASAAEgKRsfD_BwE It has really helped keep the quads/hips/glutes loose thereby lessening the outside pull on the kneecap.
FYI -- I'm on the free version of Strava under Tony Ledden EnduranceNation.us in case you ever need to look at my data. I also am using TrainingPeaks (paid service) for a deeper dive of the data (PMC, etc.) as well.
Excellent! I think you’ll find it to be very helpful,In fact I have some on right now myself! :-)
I know I think your data like the looks good. I can do a deeper dive once we’re through the bike focus. To see what’s left for us to achieve through race prep. For now, let’s keep it rolling!
Hi Coach P! Still plugging away doing my best to be a self coached athlete and taking advantage of all the EN resources. The June office hours call on peaking was great - - especially practicing at race pace so you don't overdo it on race day after the taper. The second Boomer session was a wealth of knowledge as well, I'm 57 years old and can relate to the issues; so many experts to leverage from!
Raced Wisconsin 70.3 on 6/10. Came in 18th in age group after a horrible 47 min swim. Didn't have an HIM plan in the road map this season since IMMT is the A race and focused on the bike block; also didn't get into the open water and should have added more swims earlier during the bike focus block. But still finished with a 5:54 overall time with a 3:00 bike (3 hours even) and 1:58 half marathon.
On Saturday 6/16 did the Horrible Hilly Hundreds outside of Madison. Rode 93 miles (150K) in 6:35 and 7,000 feet of elevation gain with a TSS of 388 for that ride.
Definitely feeling the fatigue this week and had to back off the bike testing as well as the Friday run. Crashed Wednesday afternoon and slept 10 hours straight Wednesday into Thurs morning! Did the split long run Thursday and the 4.5 bike on the Kickr today (split into 2 hours, then 55 minute run, then 2.5 hours back on the Kickr).
My bike sessions are to stay indoors riding the BBS model for IMMT on the Kickr while watching a movie or on Zwift. BBS is predicting a 5:49 bike at IMMT.
My FTP is hovering at 265 watts before the Horrible Hilly (didn't have it in the legs to test this week), weight is 179 and watts/kg at threshold is 3.26. Trying to get that up to 3.5 by 8/19 with a combination of more power and less kg. I realize the 265 may not move much here on out to IMMT on 8/19 so trying to drop 10 more pounds to 169 without losing muscle (I'm at 9% BF so losing 10 pounds of fat would leave me at about 4% BF)
On Monday 6/25 I'll be in week 13 of 20 in the EN Full Advanced plan.
No major injuries -- staying on top of patella femoral syndrome (which caused me to go into run jail in November and December of 2017) and ankle/plantar issues with Marc Pro, Theragun, night boot and stretch and roll.
Attached is my PMC and weekly run mileage from 1/8/2017 to today, 6/23/2018 (note that I did IMWI on 9/10 last year). If it is easier for you, I could send you my Training Peaks account info (username and PW is same as what I use for EN).
Here is my question: I'm planning a DIY camp on Friday / Saturday / Sunday of week 15 of the plan (July 13, 14 and 15). I don't have enough SAUs or $ to go to Mont Tremblant, so my plan is to go up to Madison instead. There is a tri group I can swim with on Friday morning in Lake Monona for $15, then drive to Verona to pick up the bike from the hotel and ride 3 loops of the IMWI course from Verona, then run 1 hour. On Saturday, ride 3 loops of the Madison course from Verona and run 30 minutes. On Sunday, run 2 hours, min 13 miles. What do you think about this -- is it a good use of time? It isn't the IMMT bike course but at least it is an IM bike course and better than the flat land here outside Chicago. Plus I get to practice in the open water.
Let me know what you think or if there is something else I should be focusing on over these last 8 weeks up to IMMT on 8/19.
@Tony Ledden - thanks for the mega update!!!! Not a bad 70.3™ without a plan per se; i'll take it. And some good fun for you (After the swim!) as well.
So as you can imagine, things are looking good. I like your PMC thus far, and how deliberate you have been. Next steps are to build up to a sustainable (but not to heavy) run schedule in July / August. I like you running 25/30 miles per week, and then we can do two bigger weeks in August (6 of 8 weeks are between 25 and 30 miles). The bike will have to continue to grow so the PMC bends upwards, and your proposed CampWeekend would be GREAT. Maybe ride the course in REVERSE on Day Two for some variety.
As you need rest, please take it. Your deeper PMC (more CTL over time since the start of the year) means you do have some fatigue. No need to push yourself when you are meant to be going lighter to recover. I promise the work is coming!!!
@Coach Patrick re: IMMT on 8/19: starting to put together lists and planning strategy. I've been reading past race reports, listened to pre race webinar 3 x and your IMMT camp (both days) 2 x while riding my Best Bike Split race plan on the Kickr. I even found a YouTube video of the first loop of the IMMT bike course and rode my race plan along with that! BBS is predicting a 5:49 bike time (my FTP is 265 and I'm riding an old 2010 P2 Cervelo with 404F/808R race wheels, aero helmet and 11/28 rear cassette and 50/34 compact crank with the EN race kit; PM in the crank).
Ran 20 miles last Thursday (3:20 time) and will be heading back up to Wisconsin this weekend to ride loops of the IM course on Friday, Saturday and Sunday for RR#2 (week 18).
My TSB as of today is -2, but feel a little more fatigue than that number would indicate but not overwhelming-- more like around a -5 or -6 I would say.
Body comp is good: I'm 6'1", age 58 by 12/31 and weigh 173. I'm 3.5 pounds away from hitting my goal BF% of 5.5% and race weight of 169 - 170.
So all things are looking good, as long as I can stay healthy and family/work life cooperate.
Here is my question, and it concerns bike strategy: Loop 1: I'm thinking of riding JRA until end of Monte Ryan in order to get HR down from the swim. Then push the IF to .75 on 117 and back through Monte Ryan, but then ride the EN way up the climb to Lac Superior. Open it up on the downhill back into town.
Loop 2: Ride Monte Ryan the EN way out to 117. Target IF of .75-.79 on 117 until the climb to Lac Superior. On first 3 miles of Lac Superior climb ride the EN way, but on last 3 miles of the climb burn a couple of matches -- not stupidly, but enough to gain some separation, then open it up on the downhill back into T2.
What do you think about the bike strategy?
FYI, for hydration, planning to use water and 4 salt stick tablets per hour + supplemental salt (Gatorlytes) if hot. I know this is contrary to EN hydration advice, but everything I've tried -- NBS, GE, etc -- causes gut issues after mile 3 on the run. For nutrition, I'm targeting 225 calories/hour using Almond Butter packets, Honey Singer waffles and Macademia Nut bars.
Tony – I saw you are training this weekend in Wisconsin, looks really solid. Working in reverse order, I’m OK with your nutrition as long as you have tested it and you are confident in it.
I don’t think it pays to be that aggressive on the bike course. It’s a very fast course except for the steep sections. You will be fast even below .75. I suggest you go look at my Strava files from 2017 And 2015. You will see there’s a lot of speed without a lot of aggressive writing. Your watts per kilogram will be your secret weapon across the whole course. In the middle section of the run from Miles 12 to 15/16 are really hard and I’d rather you be ready for that.
Quick FYI -- Coming off of IMMT on 8/19, I'll be scheduling a call for sometime in September to debrief the season. Will be respectful of your time and Kona build up. Planning on putting together slides that summarize the build over the last two seasons with EN (PMC, weekly run mileage, etc.), race results and where to go from here for 2019. But need to first get the data organized and straight in my own head, as well as some goals for 2019 and what I think is really possible given my life constraints, before we can talk productively. Will also start learning Final Surge so I can address that on the call as well just in case I run into any problems with it. Thanks for guidance and the support of the whole team this season!
@Coach Patrick : I set up a 15 min coach call on Tuesday 9/11 at 2:30 Eastern/1:30 central to debrief my 2nd year with EN and look to 2019. Attached are slides that may help the conversation. They basically compare the training and IMs between 2017 and 2018 with slide 19 showing the side by side results and 20-28 showing the goals for 2019 and what I think I'll need to do to reach them. I'd like to focus the discussion on whether you think my approach for the 2019 season makes sense and is doable.
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Ok, thanks for your patience!!! I want you to repeat RDP3 into the 2019 OS start on 1/7/19...but you can add more cycling to either Monday / Friday OR Sat / Sun. The goal in the OS will be to maximize your FTP; and then it's Run Focus into the Full plan with an eye towards Door County.
Looks like your workout data has tapered off...is all ok?
Your Races
06/15/2019 Horrible Hilly Hundreds 200K bike event
07/14/2019 Door County Half Ironman
Ironman Wisconsin 2019 (2019-09-08) #IMWI_19
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Last updated by Coach on 11/21/2018
On 11/12/2018 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/9/2018
On 12/10/2018 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 1/6/2019
On 1/7/2019 Load the OutSeason (Bike Focus) Plan, 14wks to end on 4/14/2019
On 4/15/2019 Load the Swim Camp to end on 4/28/2019
On 4/29/2019 Load the Run Focus Block to end on 6/9/2019
On 6/10/2019 Load the -- EN*Full Bike Focused to end on 9/8/2019
On 9/9/2019 Load the -- Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 10/6/2019
On 10/7/2019 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 11/3/2019
Your Notes
Beginning year 3 of EN program. Currently in week 2 of Run Durability Block 3, with RD Block 3 set to end on Sunday Dec 9. I'm 58 years old. I've modified the RD program to add bikes and swims when I feel the running was beginning to cause injury issues. Currently no injuries, but definitely will continue to back off the running as I feel niggles coming on. Patella tracking issues, sore plantar fascia, tight achillies, calves and hamstrings have cropped up but staying on top of it with strength and stretch work during the RD program. Working on body composition -- gained 15 pounds since my end of season race at IMMT this past August 19, 2018. Set a PR of 11:47 at IMMT this past August 19, 2018. Would like to get under 11:15 (30 minute PR) for IMWI this 9/8/2019. I have the following events on the 2019 schedule:
IMWI 70.3: 6/9/2019
Horrible Hilly Hundreds 200K: 6/15/2019
Door County Half IM: 7/14/2019
IMWI full IM: 9/8/2019
After IMMT until today, 11/20, I've run in 2 5k races at 7:00 - 7:05/mile pace.
I'm on Final Surge so you can see what I've been doing since loading up the RD Blocks in September.
Need guidance on plans to load beginning Monday Dec 10. I will be having minor surgery on Friday Dec 21 which will require a general anesthesia. expect to be able to train the following week after Christmas.
Goal for OS is to hit 300 FTP on the bike and get to 165 pounds = 75kg for a 4.0 watts/kg by 7/14/2019 for the Door County Half IM. For the run, goal is to hit a 45.6 vDOT and a 3:30 - 3:45 marathon for IMWI and 1:40 - 1:45 for the Door County Half.
RD Block 3; week 2. RD Block 3 will end Sunday Dec 9.
@Coach Patrick : Season Road Map looks good. Thank you for thinking this through. I was out of town over the Thanksgiving holiday and then a snow storm hit and we've been without power over the last 3 days, so I've lost a bit of mojo. Expect to climb back on the wagon within the next day or 2 as soon as schedule gets back to normal and the electric power comes back on!
Of course, and no problems. It’s natural for things to get a little funky this time of year with weather and motivation. Remember, mojo itself is a resource that needs to be cultivated and nurtured. It’s not always 100% available all the time. You don’t have to force it now, just take advantage of it when the wave comes. The more familiar you are with it, the more prepared you will be to activate it when required, a.k.a. when the training is serious.
2019 IMWI is in the books. Race Report is forthcoming over the next few days.
Bottom Line: finished 20th/110 in my 55-59 age group with a 12:23:51, but was gunning for a top 10 age group spot. But I need help with nutrition and ideas to get faster on the run. I plan to scour the Wiki regarding these 2 topics and be more vigilant about hitting pace/hr targets during the Run Durability and Outseason, and during the IM build up itself next year. May also go to power for the run with a Stryd. I know you don't race faster than what you trained at, and with my Threshold pace at 7:15 per mile, perhaps I should not have expected more out of the IM run as I just couldn't make it past Zone 2 most of the time on my training runs:
Here is what I did at IMWI on 9/8
Swim: 1:26:06
T1=7:32
Bike = 5:57:58
T2=4:10
Run = 4:48:08
Most disappointed with the 4:48:08 run as I averaged over 26 miles during the last 14 weeks of the IM build (including taper and race week), but as noted above, wasn't able to get out of Z1 or Z2.
I did 12:02 at IMWI in 2017 and 11:47 in IMMT last year and thought my training supported an 11:35 - 11:45 total time.
My total CTL maxed out at 121 on 8/24.
I weighed in at 177 pounds at the Thursday registration (I'm 6' tall).
I spent a decent amount of time in the porta pots while out on the run due to painful gas I was trying to pass. I may have overhydrated on the bike as I pee'd 3x by mile 9 on the run and 8x on the bike.
The temps were cool: mid 50s at start and never climbed above 65. ENE winds 5-10 all day with light sprinkles around 6pm.
Swim was choppy – definitely rough. That definitely slowed me down as I couldn't get into a nice rhythym.
Bike was spot on – my TSS was 275 and IF was .68. I thought I fueled properly (330 calories/hour) and I was keeping track of my TSS on my Elemnt, so I thought I was set up for a great run. If anything, I overhydrated on the bike but made sure to take plenty of salt with the 36 – 40 ounces of water I was taking in per hour.
But for the first 2 miles on the run I struggled to get my HR down to the upper 120s (average for the last hour on the bike) and then after an hour (around mile 8 or 9) my guts were bloating and I needed to hit the porta pots. I hit the pots 3x just to expel gas (as well as a handful of times while on the run itself). I pee'd 4-5 times on the run (3x before mile 9 -- but that took very little time and I'd rather be overhydrated and taking my sodium than to be dehydrated). Then my quads seized up at mile 15. Between the bloat and the sore/knotted quads, I ended up walking and spending time in pots - hence the 4:48 run time.
I still need to nail that nutrition puzzle and do more strength and mobility work during training and in the off season. I also need to practice getting faster on the run, which I guess means running faster during training.
So looking for some direction on nutrition to avoid gas/bloat after an hour on the run and thoughts as to what I need to do to run a 4 hour IM marathon. I ran a 4:12 marathon at IMWI in 2017 and 4:19 at IMMT in 2018 -- so the trend is in the wrong direction which is concerning for me.
Anyway, disappointed with the run after I thought I had it figured out and thought I could do a top 10 finish especially after that bike, but still immensely grateful that I was able to do an Ironman. Again, any direction you can provide or resources you could point me to would be appreciated in order to solve my gas problem after an hour on the run and my slow run pace.
Comments
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
Completed IMWI on 9/10 using the Intermediate plan and currently in transition plan heading to run durability thereafter.
Your Races
• IM Mont Tremblant 8/19/2018
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Coach Notes
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
Looking forward to our call!
~ Coach P
Here is my question. As noted in the thread above, I'll be doing the Wisconsin 70.3 on 6/10 in route to IMMT on 8/19. I'll also be doing the Horribly Hilly 200K ride (http://www.horriblyhilly.com/) on 6/16. Should I change up any of the plans after completion of the outseason Run Durability on 4/15 in route to the 6/10 Wisconsin 70.3 and then IMMT on 8/19?
Thank you for the rock tape tip. The PT used it on me back in December / January as part of the healing process and it helped. I think I'll go back to using it on my longer runs. I also invested in a Theragun G2Pro: https://theragun.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyuHM5qej2gIVTYF-Ch0Flw0bEAAYASAAEgKRsfD_BwE It has really helped keep the quads/hips/glutes loose thereby lessening the outside pull on the kneecap.
FYI -- I'm on the free version of Strava under Tony Ledden EnduranceNation.us in case you ever need to look at my data. I also am using TrainingPeaks (paid service) for a deeper dive of the data (PMC, etc.) as well.
Still plugging away doing my best to be a self coached athlete and taking advantage of all the EN resources. The June office hours call on peaking was great - - especially practicing at race pace so you don't overdo it on race day after the taper. The second Boomer session was a wealth of knowledge as well, I'm 57 years old and can relate to the issues; so many experts to leverage from!
Raced Wisconsin 70.3 on 6/10. Came in 18th in age group after a horrible 47 min swim. Didn't have an HIM plan in the road map this season since IMMT is the A race and focused on the bike block; also didn't get into the open water and should have added more swims earlier during the bike focus block. But still finished with a 5:54 overall time with a 3:00 bike (3 hours even) and 1:58 half marathon.
On Saturday 6/16 did the Horrible Hilly Hundreds outside of Madison. Rode 93 miles (150K) in 6:35 and 7,000 feet of elevation gain with a TSS of 388 for that ride.
Definitely feeling the fatigue this week and had to back off the bike testing as well as the Friday run. Crashed Wednesday afternoon and slept 10 hours straight Wednesday into Thurs morning! Did the split long run Thursday and the 4.5 bike on the Kickr today (split into 2 hours, then 55 minute run, then 2.5 hours back on the Kickr).
My bike sessions are to stay indoors riding the BBS model for IMMT on the Kickr while watching a movie or on Zwift. BBS is predicting a 5:49 bike at IMMT.
My FTP is hovering at 265 watts before the Horrible Hilly (didn't have it in the legs to test this week), weight is 179 and watts/kg at threshold is 3.26. Trying to get that up to 3.5 by 8/19 with a combination of more power and less kg. I realize the 265 may not move much here on out to IMMT on 8/19 so trying to drop 10 more pounds to 169 without losing muscle (I'm at 9% BF so losing 10 pounds of fat would leave me at about 4% BF)
On Monday 6/25 I'll be in week 13 of 20 in the EN Full Advanced plan.
No major injuries -- staying on top of patella femoral syndrome (which caused me to go into run jail in November and December of 2017) and ankle/plantar issues with Marc Pro, Theragun, night boot and stretch and roll.
Attached is my PMC and weekly run mileage from 1/8/2017 to today, 6/23/2018 (note that I did IMWI on 9/10 last year). If it is easier for you, I could send you my Training Peaks account info (username and PW is same as what I use for EN).
Here is my question:
I'm planning a DIY camp on Friday / Saturday / Sunday of week 15 of the plan (July 13, 14 and 15). I don't have enough SAUs or $ to go to Mont Tremblant, so my plan is to go up to Madison instead. There is a tri group I can swim with on Friday morning in Lake Monona for $15, then drive to Verona to pick up the bike from the hotel and ride 3 loops of the IMWI course from Verona, then run 1 hour. On Saturday, ride 3 loops of the Madison course from Verona and run 30 minutes. On Sunday, run 2 hours, min 13 miles. What do you think about this -- is it a good use of time? It isn't the IMMT bike course but at least it is an IM bike course and better than the flat land here outside Chicago. Plus I get to practice in the open water.
Let me know what you think or if there is something else I should be focusing on over these last 8 weeks up to IMMT on 8/19.
So as you can imagine, things are looking good. I like your PMC thus far, and how deliberate you have been. Next steps are to build up to a sustainable (but not to heavy) run schedule in July / August. I like you running 25/30 miles per week, and then we can do two bigger weeks in August (6 of 8 weeks are between 25 and 30 miles). The bike will have to continue to grow so the PMC bends upwards, and your proposed CampWeekend would be GREAT. Maybe ride the course in REVERSE on Day Two for some variety.
As you need rest, please take it. Your deeper PMC (more CTL over time since the start of the year) means you do have some fatigue. No need to push yourself when you are meant to be going lighter to recover. I promise the work is coming!!!
~ Coach P
Ran 20 miles last Thursday (3:20 time) and will be heading back up to Wisconsin this weekend to ride loops of the IM course on Friday, Saturday and Sunday for RR#2 (week 18).
My TSB as of today is -2, but feel a little more fatigue than that number would indicate but not overwhelming-- more like around a -5 or -6 I would say.
Body comp is good: I'm 6'1", age 58 by 12/31 and weigh 173. I'm 3.5 pounds away from hitting my goal BF% of 5.5% and race weight of 169 - 170.
So all things are looking good, as long as I can stay healthy and family/work life cooperate.
Here is my question, and it concerns bike strategy:
Loop 1: I'm thinking of riding JRA until end of Monte Ryan in order to get HR down from the swim. Then push the IF to .75 on 117 and back through Monte Ryan, but then ride the EN way up the climb to Lac Superior. Open it up on the downhill back into town.
Loop 2: Ride Monte Ryan the EN way out to 117. Target IF of .75-.79 on 117 until the climb to Lac Superior. On first 3 miles of Lac Superior climb ride the EN way, but on last 3 miles of the climb burn a couple of matches -- not stupidly, but enough to gain some separation, then open it up on the downhill back into T2.
What do you think about the bike strategy?
FYI, for hydration, planning to use water and 4 salt stick tablets per hour + supplemental salt (Gatorlytes) if hot. I know this is contrary to EN hydration advice, but everything I've tried -- NBS, GE, etc -- causes gut issues after mile 3 on the run. For nutrition, I'm targeting 225 calories/hour using Almond Butter packets, Honey Singer waffles and Macademia Nut bars.
Thanks for your thoughts!
@Coach Patrick:
Quick FYI -- Coming off of IMMT on 8/19, I'll be scheduling a call for sometime in September to debrief the season. Will be respectful of your time and Kona build up. Planning on putting together slides that summarize the build over the last two seasons with EN (PMC, weekly run mileage, etc.), race results and where to go from here for 2019. But need to first get the data organized and straight in my own head, as well as some goals for 2019 and what I think is really possible given my life constraints, before we can talk productively. Will also start learning Final Surge so I can address that on the call as well just in case I run into any problems with it. Thanks for guidance and the support of the whole team this season!
@Tony Ledden you are so thoughtful i can’t wait to see the end result. if you haven’t already, plse post that IMMT race report for feedback!
it helps the team, and it will also help you in your next race to be able to come back and see an in-depth look at your most recent IronMan.
given your fitness and work ethic, you have plenty of options for 2019....
8/19/2018 IMMT Race report posted here:
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/25045/project-breaking12-tonys-2018-immt-race-report#latest
i saw it. what a race. thanks so much for the update!!!
looking forward to our call!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick : I set up a 15 min coach call on Tuesday 9/11 at 2:30 Eastern/1:30 central to debrief my 2nd year with EN and look to 2019. Attached are slides that may help the conversation. They basically compare the training and IMs between 2017 and 2018 with slide 19 showing the side by side results and 20-28 showing the goals for 2019 and what I think I'll need to do to reach them. I'd like to focus the discussion on whether you think my approach for the 2019 season makes sense and is doable.
@Coach Patrick Please use 847-736-7466 as the phone number for the coach's call on Tuesday 9/11 at 2:30 Eastern/1:30 central.
@Tony Ledden -
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Ok, thanks for your patience!!! I want you to repeat RDP3 into the 2019 OS start on 1/7/19...but you can add more cycling to either Monday / Friday OR Sat / Sun. The goal in the OS will be to maximize your FTP; and then it's Run Focus into the Full plan with an eye towards Door County.
Looks like your workout data has tapered off...is all ok?
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Your Notes
Beginning year 3 of EN program. Currently in week 2 of Run Durability Block 3, with RD Block 3 set to end on Sunday Dec 9. I'm 58 years old. I've modified the RD program to add bikes and swims when I feel the running was beginning to cause injury issues. Currently no injuries, but definitely will continue to back off the running as I feel niggles coming on. Patella tracking issues, sore plantar fascia, tight achillies, calves and hamstrings have cropped up but staying on top of it with strength and stretch work during the RD program. Working on body composition -- gained 15 pounds since my end of season race at IMMT this past August 19, 2018. Set a PR of 11:47 at IMMT this past August 19, 2018. Would like to get under 11:15 (30 minute PR) for IMWI this 9/8/2019. I have the following events on the 2019 schedule:
IMWI 70.3: 6/9/2019
Horrible Hilly Hundreds 200K: 6/15/2019
Door County Half IM: 7/14/2019
IMWI full IM: 9/8/2019
After IMMT until today, 11/20, I've run in 2 5k races at 7:00 - 7:05/mile pace.
I'm on Final Surge so you can see what I've been doing since loading up the RD Blocks in September.
Need guidance on plans to load beginning Monday Dec 10. I will be having minor surgery on Friday Dec 21 which will require a general anesthesia. expect to be able to train the following week after Christmas.
Goal for OS is to hit 300 FTP on the bike and get to 165 pounds = 75kg for a 4.0 watts/kg by 7/14/2019 for the Door County Half IM. For the run, goal is to hit a 45.6 vDOT and a 3:30 - 3:45 marathon for IMWI and 1:40 - 1:45 for the Door County Half.
RD Block 3; week 2. RD Block 3 will end Sunday Dec 9.
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick : Season Road Map looks good. Thank you for thinking this through. I was out of town over the Thanksgiving holiday and then a snow storm hit and we've been without power over the last 3 days, so I've lost a bit of mojo. Expect to climb back on the wagon within the next day or 2 as soon as schedule gets back to normal and the electric power comes back on!
Of course, and no problems. It’s natural for things to get a little funky this time of year with weather and motivation. Remember, mojo itself is a resource that needs to be cultivated and nurtured. It’s not always 100% available all the time. You don’t have to force it now, just take advantage of it when the wave comes. The more familiar you are with it, the more prepared you will be to activate it when required, a.k.a. when the training is serious.
Hi @Coach Patrick :
2019 IMWI is in the books. Race Report is forthcoming over the next few days.
Bottom Line: finished 20th/110 in my 55-59 age group with a 12:23:51, but was gunning for a top 10 age group spot. But I need help with nutrition and ideas to get faster on the run. I plan to scour the Wiki regarding these 2 topics and be more vigilant about hitting pace/hr targets during the Run Durability and Outseason, and during the IM build up itself next year. May also go to power for the run with a Stryd. I know you don't race faster than what you trained at, and with my Threshold pace at 7:15 per mile, perhaps I should not have expected more out of the IM run as I just couldn't make it past Zone 2 most of the time on my training runs:
Here is what I did at IMWI on 9/8
Swim: 1:26:06
T1=7:32
Bike = 5:57:58
T2=4:10
Run = 4:48:08
Most disappointed with the 4:48:08 run as I averaged over 26 miles during the last 14 weeks of the IM build (including taper and race week), but as noted above, wasn't able to get out of Z1 or Z2.
I did 12:02 at IMWI in 2017 and 11:47 in IMMT last year and thought my training supported an 11:35 - 11:45 total time.
My total CTL maxed out at 121 on 8/24.
I weighed in at 177 pounds at the Thursday registration (I'm 6' tall).
I spent a decent amount of time in the porta pots while out on the run due to painful gas I was trying to pass. I may have overhydrated on the bike as I pee'd 3x by mile 9 on the run and 8x on the bike.
The temps were cool: mid 50s at start and never climbed above 65. ENE winds 5-10 all day with light sprinkles around 6pm.
Swim was choppy – definitely rough. That definitely slowed me down as I couldn't get into a nice rhythym.
Bike was spot on – my TSS was 275 and IF was .68. I thought I fueled properly (330 calories/hour) and I was keeping track of my TSS on my Elemnt, so I thought I was set up for a great run. If anything, I overhydrated on the bike but made sure to take plenty of salt with the 36 – 40 ounces of water I was taking in per hour.
But for the first 2 miles on the run I struggled to get my HR down to the upper 120s (average for the last hour on the bike) and then after an hour (around mile 8 or 9) my guts were bloating and I needed to hit the porta pots. I hit the pots 3x just to expel gas (as well as a handful of times while on the run itself). I pee'd 4-5 times on the run (3x before mile 9 -- but that took very little time and I'd rather be overhydrated and taking my sodium than to be dehydrated). Then my quads seized up at mile 15. Between the bloat and the sore/knotted quads, I ended up walking and spending time in pots - hence the 4:48 run time.
I still need to nail that nutrition puzzle and do more strength and mobility work during training and in the off season. I also need to practice getting faster on the run, which I guess means running faster during training.
So looking for some direction on nutrition to avoid gas/bloat after an hour on the run and thoughts as to what I need to do to run a 4 hour IM marathon. I ran a 4:12 marathon at IMWI in 2017 and 4:19 at IMMT in 2018 -- so the trend is in the wrong direction which is concerning for me.
Anyway, disappointed with the run after I thought I had it figured out and thought I could do a top 10 finish especially after that bike, but still immensely grateful that I was able to do an Ironman. Again, any direction you can provide or resources you could point me to would be appreciated in order to solve my gas problem after an hour on the run and my slow run pace.
Thanks!